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Mussolini was a British agent - Guardian

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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 01:18 PM
Original message
Mussolini was a British agent - Guardian
Edited on Thu Oct-15-09 01:22 PM by JackRiddler
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/13/benito-mussolini-recruited-mi5-italy

Archived documents have revealed that Mussolini got his start in politics in 1917 with the help of a £100 weekly wage from MI5.

For the British intelligence agency, it must have seemed like a good investment. Mussolini, then a 34-year-old journalist, was not just willing to ensure Italy continued to fight alongside the allies in the first world war by publishing propaganda in his paper. He was also willing to send in the boys to "persuade'' peace protesters to stay at home.

Mussolini's payments were authorised by Sir Samuel Hoare, an MP and MI5's man in Rome, who ran a staff of 100 British intelligence officers in Italy at the time.

Cambridge historian Peter Martland, who discovered details of the deal struck with the future dictator, said: "Britain's least reliable ally in the war at the time was Italy after revolutionary Russia's pullout from the conflict. Mussolini was paid £100 a week from the autumn of 1917 for at least a year to keep up the pro-war campaigning – equivalent to about £6,000 a week today."

Hoare, later to become Lord Templewood, mentioned the recruitment in memoirs in 1954, but Martland stumbled on details of the payments for the first time while scouring Hoare's papers.


SNIP

READ MORE http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/13/benito-mussolini-recruited-mi5-italy

Hoare continued the support after being told by Mussolini of his plans for organizing the black shirts, and was later outed himself as a fascist "appeaser" (or sympathizer?) in 1935, when he brokered the deal that legitimated Fascist Italy's bloody invasion of Ethiopia.

Am I posting this to imply fascism was a British false-flag operation? Nope. So the conspiracy panickers can relax.

Rather, I think this is yet another paradigmatic story about secret power. If you empower agencies who act covertly, need give no accounts to the public, are told they can break the law and deal with villains at their own discretion on behalf of vaguely-defined "national interests," then this is the sort of thing that will happen. It's why the history of the CIA is one, not just of failure, but of an active attack on anything that can be properly defined as an interest of the American people.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. There's a similar backstory to Hitler...
And Saddam, and, and...

Machiavellian games often have undesired "side effects"...
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 01:22 PM
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2. So the Western world's tradition of creating tyrants so theres an excuse
to building up our military goes back farther than we thought.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 01:24 PM
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3. Wasn't Mussolini originally a socialist? nt
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Confusious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-16-09 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. no

Unless you call government and industry colluding (to lock the people and workers out of power) socialism.
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GodlessBiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 01:32 PM
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4. Did Mussolini like his martinis shaken or stirred?
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Crushed underfoot, I'm afraid.
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GodlessBiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-16-09 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Touché.
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FSogol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
5. Is Benito another one of Michael Steel's Republican Heroes? n/t
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-16-09 06:35 AM
Response to Original message
8. Point of info: Would you distinguish between "agent" and "asset"?
It seems to me that he was an asset rather than an agent. Imo, an asset is someone who is not part of the agency, and who has no particular loyalty to the government that pays him, who has "handlers," and is paid for information or sometimes carrying out activities. An agent is a member of that particular intelligence service.

Do you think there is a difference, and does it make a difference in terms of the implications of the story?
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-16-09 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Good point. It comes down to self-understanding, doesn't it?
Edited on Fri Oct-16-09 11:07 AM by JackRiddler
History teaches that the agent may use his unaccountable secret power to ignore laws abusively, for his own aggrandizement or on behalf of a preferred ideological agenda in conflict with official policy. Whereas the asset can also be an idealist with greater loyalty to the cause represented by the agent than the agent himself (see the well-known category of dupes and patsies).

In this case both Hoare and Mussolini seem to have colluded as they liked to advance their own agendas and interests. Depending on your understanding of "British" (is it a people? a country? a government? a policy of that government just in that period? a Platonic form?) neither is really a British agent. Both seem to be fascist-minded political gangsters, using their positions to conspire to fuck the world for gain.

But it's important to maintain the greatest accuracy in terms, so consider your point made and please read the headline as follows:

Mussolini started political career as paid asset of British intelligence agency MI6.

I think that sounds even worse!
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Orwellian_Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-16-09 07:25 AM
Response to Original message
9. Bump
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