I wasn't planning on getting the H1N1 vaccine, but I've changed my mind...

From some of the research I've done, the virus can trigger a cytokine storm, an overreaction to the virus in people with strong immune system that can result in respiratory failure.

I don't know if I want to upset that situation.

Wouldn't that be "... an overreaction to the virus in SOME people with strong immune systems..."?

It's actually the mechanism that caused the pandemic that followed World War 1 to have its notoriously high mortality rate.

it did me over a decade ago. I never got the flu shot or caught the flu. In 1998 I caught the flu for the first time in my life and now I always get the flu shot every year. The flu isn't something you want to monkey with.

...but at the advice of my doctor, I went and got the flu shot last week.

It was a painless experience. The pinprick from the shot was the least pain I've ever felt when getting a shot (not that any of them have been painful, though). I heard of the possible side effects after the shot, but I had NONE of them. Not even the arm pain/stiffness. I actually began to wonder if she even gave me the shot -- that's how little it affected me.

but this flu is different. It's killing a tiny percentage of people who get it, mostly kids and younger adults. It's not killing old folks two weeks later with a secondary infection.

If I weren't an old person, I'd certainly get it. As it is, the vaccine is in short supply so I'm going to be back of the line.

Last several times I checked the mortality rate for this one was fifteen times higher than it usually is for young adults.

Fatality rate for H1N1 stands at 1.52% (1 in 66 who get infected die) in the U.S.

The difference being that one third of the world's population got the Spanish flu.

If one third of 6.7 billion people got sick with H1N1 and 1.52% died, that would be 340 million dead.

You can see why the WHO and the CDC aren't taking this lightly.

between the people susceptible to the cytokine storm and the ones who develop a bacterial pneumonia on top of it, the percentages are likely to be much larger there.

The death rate is higher for otherwise healthy young people than it is for old folks who have had type A influenza in the past. That's another reason they're taking this one so seriously. We have a couple of generations who have never been exposed to a type A influenza.

Still, that 1.54% is a small percentage when compared to other killers we see like hantaavirus.

Though the cytokine storms aren't nearly so prevalent in today's pig flu.

In a nutshell, your immune system freaks out, causes your lungs to be filled with fluids and white cells, and you drown in your own snot.

...percentage of H1N1 patients presenting w/viral pneumonia as a sequel to the infection, at least when compared with seasonal flu. I'm not sure this is the same mechanism, but it's troubling.

...was the hardest on young or middle-aged people who were very healthy.

We're seeing some of this with the N1N1 this time around---but in very tiny percentages. And as I
said in a previous post...it's bizarre that many healthy young people get it and have such varied
reactions to it. Some get it and it's no worse than a cold. In fact, the general consensus is that
H1N1 is milder than a typical seasonal flu.

Yet--oddly--some healthy people do die from it--and experience the cytokine storm.

Weird that 100 healthy kids get it and recover in 2-3 days, but one dies from it.

I wonder what the independent variable is here? Would be interesting to research.

Although it got to Spanish via WWI soldiers from the U.S. Midwest.

This one's got me spooked, and I mean to bug my kids to get the vaccine.

tell you your friend's doctors were wrong in their diagnosis.

I'm not one of them. Hope your friend has no lasting damage.

I'd seen a few of them try to distance-diagnose my friend by saying he's clearly elderly or immunocompromised or has other health complications or overdosed on evil rays by being insufficiently vegan or something, none of which are true in the least.

Last word I got they think he'll be okay, though he'll probably be another week or two recuperating. Can't speak yet because of irritation from the ventilator and the type, but that's stuff that will fade soon enough. Either way, it's a colossal load off my mind, and underscored my own desire to get a jab against the thing. (I'm not elderly, immunocompromised or overdosed on evil rays, but I do have asthma, so it worries me.)

I saw a piece on the news last night that one of the afterhours care centers had the vaccine and they didn't mention rationing or apportioning the vaccine.

I stopped in this morning and I was the only one there. 5 minutes and $20 later, all done.

I have been doing seasonal flu shots for about 8 or 9 years. I work in a job where I am in constant contact with the public, and (knock on wood) I have not contracted the flu during this time.

I just saw an article on H1N1, and it is being reported that H1N1 is more mild than the usual
seasonal flu. However, some healthy adults and children are dying from it--but a very tiny percentage.
A smaller percentage than normally die of the flu.

And also it is a mild flu. The vast majority get it and are over it in a few days. Some don't even
realize that they've had a bad flu--it acts like a bad cold with some.

Our town had 150 kids out in the middle school. The word on the street was that most kids recovered
in 2-3 days and were back to school. No one died.

It is worth noting that healthy people--especially kids--do die, although this is a very small percentage.
It's curious that this happens with some people, but not all. Most recover or barely know they have it.

It's just a weird flu.

upset stomach. nothing else. he slept. he slept saturday and sunday, ate little and low grade fever, some upset stomach.

not big deals, but his behavior was abnormal for him

kept him home monday and slept lot of day, started feeling better evening.
let him go one more day and on and off but mostly good.

didnt seem like a flu, but we dont do flu in this house.

no raging fever. no throwing up.

just not normal behavior from kid

figured he had some flu, somwhere.

if you have a flu right now--it's H1N1, because the seasonal flu hasn't come around yet.

Most of the parents around here who have sick kid--with flu-like symptoms were told that. They
aren't even testing for H1N1--around here anyway, because they know that if someone presents
with flu symptoms it's H1N1.

that so much h1n1 they arent testing, that it is not becoming the flu they feared.

we have small towns with single schools shutting down schools cause 30% are out with flu.

something is going on. but i have yet to hear of a single death in this area.

on so many of these, west niles, scars, and another, they were all unique, all special, all worse than the other, we were all gonna die.... and it never happened. it ended with a wimper, most didnt know they contacted it, some knew but not big deal illness, smaller group took it harder. and hit a few really hard, a few died.

i am not going to go every year with another paramoid fear fear fear and i am not going ot raise my boys with it

so we are lecturing and calling names on people that dont vac, .... the h1n1 is already coming thru hitting us, and we dont have ANY vac anyway. as we shame people into vaccing with no vac

i cant do this mentality

on edit: a flesh eating disease last year.

as many kids already as we usually lose to the whole season. So it is not quite correct to say that it is not a bad killer.

There is more... pre-existing conditions are not necessary for death to occur. Most of those killed were healthy and WITHOUT pre-existing.

That is according to CDC

Check cdc.gov for the latest info.

and then for the next three to four years I caught every flu and cold that came around.
Now I wont take that shot if they paid me.

Since the bits in the flu shot are dead and you can't get the flu from it.

doesnt that happen?

Two years ago, I got the flu shot, since my employer was paying for it.

A few weeks, I got a nasty case of the flu.

I came to the conclusion (as did quite a few people) that the vaccine missed.

LIVE virus in their shots?
http://socioecohistory.wordpress.com/2009/03/07/live-avian-flu-virus-placed-in-baxter-vaccine-materials-sent-to-18-countries/

Anyway my doctor said I had a bad reaction to the shot. I did not get the flu from that shot.
It was the shot that made me vomit for weeks. It did something to my stomach that messed up the valve and I suffered with acid reflux as well for years after that shot.
I did NOT have the flu..but my immune system was so broke down I got sick all the time for years with every flu and cold that came along afterwards until I went all natural for a few years.
Now I hardly ever get sick and when I do it never lasts long. I have also stopped having nearly as many acid reflux attacks finally.

from a very nasty flu decades ago. The shots always have worked for me. But I don't doubt other's people's reactions, that is their experience.

However, a relative a few years older than me,50 yrs old, who I've been around a lot the last few days, was just diagnosed with H1N1. They went to the Dr.s because the respiratory problems that you get with this flu got much worse over the course of the day. The dr.s office said that if you develop cough/respiratory problems, that you should come in *before* you develop problems breathing(problems breathing=ER pronto). They were prescribed Tamiflu. The dr's office said my relative should be better in a couple days.


....and all day today my chest has been having *that* feeling - and getting worse. this is not good. I get real problems when I get the flu. shoot!

the only shot ive got so far is the seasonal..the swine flu one isn't available here until next week!

Because I've read nothing that suggests the H1N1 triggers a cytokine cascade. Swine flu in general does not involve the cytokine cascade. Furthermore, although the cytokine cascade is associated with the very virulent strain of H5N1 avian flu, correlation does not equal causation, and the story around the cytokine cascade is turning out to be more complex than the hypothesis.

What research *has* demonstrated is that this strain of H1N1 has the ability the infect the lungs,causing lesions and viral pneumonia, and opens the door to bacterial pneumonia as well.

http://magicalthyme.blogspot.com/2009/09/cytokine-cascade-and-h1n1-swine-flu.html

http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2009/05/06/H1N1-flu-may-induce-a-cytokine-storm/UPI-50901241584708/

I think this is what most people are likely referring to.

References I found in the scientific literature pointed to inconclusive in vivo studies of infected swine.

I have found nothing indicating it is associated with cytokine cascade. And that article is mostly speculation -- that because it contains some H5N1 DNA and appears to kill young adults, it *may* have gotten the gene or combination related to cytokine cascade.

However, both research and anecdotal evidence so far say that it is able to infect deep in the lungs and the people that have died from it have been mostly immune-system compromised.

Cytokine storm is something else, entirely, and the latter is suspected of producing the severe viral pneumonia that is killing people.

A story was out last week citing that a slight majority of young adults who have died from this thing had no underlying health problems.

you can't treat that with antibiotics right?

It's a ventilator in an ICU and hoping the patient makes it.

There are some foolish people on DU who think that if the Spanish Flu happened again, it wouldn't be that bad because we have antibiotics now.

It describes that exact scenario.

I have had many severe colds, but only one case of real flu with a high fever, extreme pains, weakness and lung congestion where I was bedridden for several days not wanting to eat or drink or do anything. I had not gotten a flu shot and I first noticed something wrong in my lungs whereas with most colds it starts for me with a sore throat or in the sinuses. I was so sick and unable to function that I didn't even go to the doctor for several days and when I did, he put me on antibiotics and said that it was unusual that year for the flu to affect the lungs the way it did for me.

In light of reports of bad affects on lungs from H1N1 for some people, I plan to get the shot as soon as I can

:eyes:

You'd guess that having actual Swine flu is lower risk?

Oh jeeze...

Interesting.

but death rates are higher for young people, especially pregnant women in their third trimester.