Overweight 'should be protected'

Overweight 'should be protected'

Laws in San Francisco aim to prevent fat discrimination

Attacking someone for being fat should be a hate crime, campaigners say.

They want so-called "fat-ism" to be made illegal on the same grounds as race, age and religious discrimination.

A demonstration was held outside the offices of the mayor of London asking him to lead the way in making sure employers are not prejudiced.

Protesters want the UK to follow San Francisco, where a law bans "fat-ism" in housing and employment and stops doctors pressing patients to slim down.

Sondra Solway, a San Francisco lawyer, said: "The San Francisco ordinance says you may want to mention weight to the patient but if the patient says they do not want to talk about that then you are asked to respect those wishes."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8314125.stm

That said, until health coverage is handled, employers are going to look at your personal health as a hiring and firing metric.

I do find when I am heavier that it gets hella annoying for a doctor to point out that one is overweight every fricking time as if I had not realized this myself.

"I'm overweight? No shit? 8 years of school for that?"

Of course when I point out my diet is pretty good actually and filled with lots of whole grains and vegetables not to mention lacking in almost completely lacking fast food (2 times a year...oh forgive me nutrition gods!!!) they kind of stumble.

that is attributable to MOST ailments? Its the ONE thing you DO have control over. Having a "good" diet is meaningless if you dont know how much food you are actually putting in your body and dont exercise.

Many people that think they are eating a "healthy" diet would be very surprised to find that not only is their diet not all that healthy, they usually overeat. Couple that with a lack of proper exercise and viola.......

Not saying that this applies to you, as I dont know you, but as a personal trainer I have seen this for years!

I do attribute it to exercise...but one doesn't need a doctorate to know that.

that actually have little to do with the diet.

Thyroid malfunction, medicines (side effects off) are my two favorite bogey men

by the way my doc is peachy keen happy... and we talked about it. If I loose zero grams at this moment we really don't care that much... that pesky insulin resistance is making losing the last few pounds seem like Mt. Everest.

Oh and part of my gain was a side effect of a medicine. My doc said the same think. So I kept a food diary for a month... it wasn't the diet.

for every problem.

It's just so easy for them to say well, you're too fat so of course you have X symptom. X symptom may or may not have anything to do with being overweight, but hey, lazy doctor got his fee.

I went from doctor to doctor explaining my symptoms. I would watch as their eyes would glaze over, and then they would say, "go on a diet, exercise and see a psychiatrist". But, I would wonder, how does that help the severe pain in my arm.

I finally found a doctor who diagnosed me as having fibrositus (sp?) This was the word they used until Fibromyalgia came to be known. As he listened to my complaints, he reached over and thumped my chest. It was like a bowling ball hit my chest. He had thumped a "tender spot" (there are about 11, or more depending on which study you read). He started me on Flexeril and my symptoms started to get better. That was over 20 years ago. I still struggle with the disease, and have now added Arthritis into the mix, with Vertigo cropping up every now and again, just to make it interesting.

Knowing what I have, has helped me cope. For years I thought I was just plain crazy and it was all my fault. But now, they are doing research into a virus, that may be the cause of the fibro. Losing weight when you have fibro, is a major under taking. You would have devote your entire energy to making that happen, and at this point in my life, I really don't care to devote my life to it. I am healthy otherwise. When I go for check ups, everything is within normal range, except my weight. Could the pain from arthritis be less if I lost weight? Maybe, but being thin hasn't helped my brother or sisters in their battle with arthritis.

zalinda

many foods over the years. We no longer regularly consume white starches, soda and we never eat dessert (just fruit and never sugared). It reminds me of what a friend of mine once said, "What I don't eat isn't making me fat!" :shrug:

Perhaps next, the anti "lazy-ism" lobby will aim to prevent doctors from suggesting aerobic exercise to patients.

otherwise whats the point in going to see them, do we want our docs t otell us the facts even if it offends us or do we want the touchy feely its not your fault crap.... who knows..

Not to tell you what you want to here.

Jesus christ this country has turned into a bunch of pathetic whiners.

but I wouldn't want to judge your drinking.

I'm not talking about the "Grandma" weight, either. I mean truly fat.

My husband has had trouble with his weight for years. He's always just dealt with it, until he went to the doctor in June and discovered that, in effect, he's dying. At 35. For his height, he was morbidly obese. His triglycerides were through the roof. His cholesterol was pushing the maximum. He was starting to develop fatty deposits in the subcutaneous skin beneath his pectorals, and his blood pressure was also sky-high.

He has now lost 35 lbs. He went back to the doctor in September for a re-screening, and everything has gone down: triglycerides, cholesterol, and blood pressure. He now has a chance to live past 65.

but the doctor? How is he/she supposed to do his/her job?

"Doctor, I'm tired all the time....."
"Well Nancy, you need to lose some weight, then you'll have more energy"
"I don't want to talk about that....so why am I tired all the time?"

It took my mom years to get her weight down, but then she felt better. How could her doc have helped her otherwise?

There are millions of people in the US with a dead or low functioning thyroid. It's usually an autoimmune disease. Doctors treat with ineffective Synthroid instead of natural Armour Thyroid, and they undertreat. They think that absolutely nobody needs more than two grains per day of Armour. Thryoid problems run in my mother's family since it's autoimmune. My mother was diagnosed at age ten with hypothyroidism and was put on Armour during the Great Depression.

I was put on thyroid when i was ten years old and tired all the time. I was on two grains for years. It kept me from dying, but I came home from school EVERY DAY and crashed for three to four hours in the evening. And I slept until noon on Saturday and Sunday.

Then many years later when I was grown, I was taken off thyroid completely by an incompetent internist. I had so much brain fog I did not remember that if you stop taking it, eventually you will DIE. I almost went into a coma four years later. I saw a doc that put me back on it, and we titrated the dosage. We started with one grain a day, gradually raised it to 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 grains per day. Then we went back down. He said, "What's the least dosage you need to feel like you have energy?". That was four grains per day, twice what I had taken for years. And when I took eight grains a day, which would have given most people heart palpitations and bulging eyeballs, I felt no different than I did on four grains per day.

There are lots of other conditions -- inflammation, which is related to autoimmune diseases and hormone imbalances, such as diabetes, low testosterone, and allergies. And if you take prednisone for your allergies that causes weight gain.

The perfect people on DU swear that metabolic problems are "rare", that cause weight gain. I would say that 30 million Americans with thyroid disease is not something rare. It's extremely common. Weight loss is not as simple as food in and energy out. I exercise and eat right but I have a very slow metabolism. I have been on a doctor supervised weight loss plan and all it did was starve me and I lost about eight pounds and stopped. My body went into starvation mode. I think all diet plans and even expensive doctor-supervised plans are a ripoff. Without hormone checks and therapy, it won't work. And even with hormone therapy I don't think, in my experience, that there is any way I can lose all the weight I need to lose to get to my idea weight without surgery.
--------------------

One hormone that is almost completely ignored in women:
Testosterone for Women
Contrarian Endocrinology: Testosterone for Women
by Karlis Ullis, MD with Josh Shackman, MA

While the role of testosterone in maintaining muscle mass and losing body fat may be obvious to bodybuilders and athletes, it is a basic hormonal fact that is often absent in the medical community. It is known that many women begin to gain fat rapidly about ten to fifteen years before the menopause and also after. The connection between low to absent testosterone production and the deterioration of a healthy body composition is rarely made. Most women are often only given estrogens and progestins as hormone replacement therapy, but not testosterone.

I have found in my medical practice that giving women estrogen and progesterone and not testosterone makes it almost impossible for them to lose weight/fat.

-------------
There are tons of chemicals we ingest daily that disrupt our metabolic processes and they haven't been tested for anything, be it mutagenicity or disruption of metabolic processes.

Read up on "metabolic syndrome" or "Syndrome X". A few million people have that.

Further info: www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

Maybe teaching an aqua aerobics class, but on the gym floor, no. She'd be a danger to others more than anything else.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/saturdaylive/saturdaylive_20090103.shtml

But stay out of the doctor's office with such laws.

Stop claiming it's not your fault.

:argh:

I draw the line at the bigoted.

Your concern has been noted.

:eyes:

when I exercise and diet, I lose the weight.

Stop blaming others and hit the gym.

:P

I've never been overweight, but I know so many people who are even though they WAY healthier than I. I got lucky with my genes, they didn't. Let's try to be more sympathetic!

mostly what 'genes' do is determine what foods a person can/should eat to maintain a proper weight and metabolism.

Perhaps you should mind your own business, especially since you're living in a glass house, huh?

:eyes:

no one else can do it for you, the individual needs to cut calories and get excercise... cant get any more personal responsibility than that...

We should open up our airwaves to cigarette ads and remove the ban from drinking alcohol in the ads they show for it.

It is all about personal responsibility, so why remove cigarette ads from TV?

If people see 100 ads for junk food daily, that shouldn't have any effect on their consumption patterns because it is all about personal responsibility, so ditto with smoking.

do me a favor and read on the side effects of Steroids.

DIET has nothing to do with that weight gain.

This falls in the category off

:banghead:

why?

why must "we" do something about excess weight? why should i cut calories and get exercise?

it's my body and my life.

...did advocating personal responsibility become a right wing thing??

Why is it bad to hold people accountable for their own actions?

So when Obama says that people have to take more personal responsibility for their own health, he is really just putting out RW talking points. Thanks, I did not know that.

perhaps he needs to get his house in order before telling others to do the same.

In the meantime, I'd love to see some of the health histories of those who come out of the woodwork for a little ol' fashioned fat bashing. It's convenient for all of you to demonize the fat. It sure as hell won't be convenient anymore when age and metabolism catch up with you.

instead of trying to make me feel its not my fault and theres nothing i can do but feel sorry for myself.... but thats just me and the type of doctor i want, an honest one...

I'm sure he'd be right up your alley.

The rest of us appreciate a doctor that's more interested in clinical expertise than verbal abuse.

Sure, as one gets older, the metabolism slows, but we KNOW that happens. When people refuse to change their habits KNOWING that their body is changing accept responsibility for the outcome. Contrary to what you might think, MOST overweight people CAN maintain a healthy weight. It usually boils down to lack of self-control concerning eating and exercise.

Very few have a "thyroid" problem or some other "medical" condition that keep them overweight.

>Very few have a "thyroid" problem or some other "medical" condition that keep them overweight.<

I have a dead thyroid. I was diagnosed in 1995. Perhaps I should wear a sign, just to let YOU know it's "okay".

Nice to know that you have the ability to diagnose from a distance, a la Bill Frist.

At least she's still thin, huh?

God knows everyone who's thin is "healthy".

It must really get you off to bully and demean other people. You seem to do it a lot, don't you?

I recommend a hobby.

I do know that thyroid medications are some of the most prescribed medications in the world.

Hard to tell what the side effect is from though. Many people seem to want to blame synthroid, some just blame the thyroidectomy, etc. doesn't seem like there is much consideration of the depression and it's effect. One would think that eventually the hormones could be regulated to avoid some of the side effects, of course with cancer that would be problematic for at least 5 years. Most of my wife's doctors never even consider hormone levels to be a consideration for any problem.

I also know two women who have had nodules removed which resulted in hypothyroidism. One remained very thin, while the other blew up and then managed to lose the weight with hard work. There's no written in stone rule that all people with thyroid probs will end up obese.

That's true.

How about the written in stone rule that fat people are fat only because they eat too many donuts and don't exercise. Is that one true?

co-workers and the strangers around me, it appears to be largely true. I've been at the gym for ten years and have seen many people lose weight and get into fantastic shape. The two restaurants around my office that are known as pigout places are always filled with obese people. My best friend and some relatives are fat because they overeat and don't exercise, or vastly overestimate their efforts when they do.

Those who are overweight because of their medication often seem to have a spongy, bloaty appearance rather than the usual overweight look. As though someone filled them up with water. One can often tell the difference.

Not sure what any of this has to do with the thread content though. People can be whatever they want to be, and if they wish to be obese, then good for them. Do I want a 300 pound woman showing me how to squat with weights or leading the pilates class I paid for though? Hell no. I wouldn't go to a dentist who has no teeth either. I draw the line at "job protection" somewhere before that.

if the 300 pound woman is doing the squats properly, and doing the pilates properly, what difference does it make if she's fat? except your bigotry?

A 300 pound woman like the one in the story has too much padding to be able to show someone how the body is supposed to be working through an exercise like the squat. She can't get very close to spot me from behind, and doesn't have the range of motion to guide me through the movement. If something happened, her size would be an impediment to quickly getting me out of harm's way. As for the Pilates, I wouldn't want to take instruction from a very obese person, much for the same reasons. She wouldn't be able to demonstrate the full range of motion the exercises require, and certainly wouldn't inspire anyone, which is half the job. But you probably knew all that and are just being obtuse and silly.

which is said to be under-diagnosed, it's symptoms ignored (mine were for TEN YEARS, before I finally found an AMAZING dermatologist, of all things, who got me in to a good endocrinologist), and it can be really difficult to treat.

Over about 12 years, I started gaining weight. I couldn't figure out why... I was never slim, but I wasn't really 'fat'. My body type will never be slim, I'm ok with that. But even though my good, healthy diet and regular exercise remained the same, I continued to gain. I tried making even healthier choices, cut down on portions as much as possible, got extra exercise. Not only did I not lose weight, but I continued to gain. I also developed acne, scalp problems, and other things I'd rather not share. I saw Doctors & nutritionists, they basically ignored my other symptoms (and the fact that this gain was happening where it shouldn't), gave me an acne cream and told me to eat less. If I ate less, I would have become a freaking anorexic. Over the last 5 years before treatment, I started to stop caring. Now that I was 'fat', it was ok mock me, make me feel like shit about myself, judge me. Same with my acne, people thought I just didn't wash my face! Seriously! While my job was very physically demanding and gave me a big workout through the day, I stopped doing other exercise. I stopped watching what I ate so much. My intake, oddly, didn't matter at all. I eventually hit a certain weight, and there i stayed. I could eat more or less, better or crappier foods. I stayed that weight.

I was fortunate that once my PCOS was discovered, the treatments did help me to lose weight, my acne went away, etc. Most of the weight went without any change to my normal patterns, I didn't diet, I didn't work out any more than usual. Unfortunately, I've spent the last 3 years with a disability, and have had to stop taking my PCOS meds so I gained much of the weight back, not to mention I can barely walk.

Suddenly, recently, I've lost a significant amount of weight for no reason. At least, nothing has changed, my Dr can't think of any reason, and it just keeps coming off. People say, that's great! And while I'm happy that I'm not going to be the ugly lazy fattie anymore, it freaks me out the same way my strange weight gain did. Why is this happening? Is this healthy?


Even when overweight, I was healthier than my sister, who has the 'perfect' slim figure but eats like shit 24/7, doesn't exercise, and ignores her health.

I was diagnosed with a dead thyroid in 1965 when I was a child (pre-adolescent). And put on Armour Thyroid. I still take it today and have had to argue with doctors to keep taking it instead of that shitty Synthroid they push, and to get ENOUGH of it so I feel decent.

A bit about subclinical hypo:

From www.thyroid-info.com:

In his book, The Thyroid Solution, Ridha Arem, MD, Associate Professor of Medicine in the Division of Endocrinology and Metabolism at Baylor College of Medicine, also agrees that hypothyroidism may exist despite "normal range," TSH levels:

Many people may be suffering from minute imbalances that have not yet resulted in abnormal blood tests. If we included people with low-grade hypothyroidism whose blood tests are normal, the frequency of hypothyroidism would no doubt exceed 10 percent of the population. What is of special concern, though, is that many people whose test results are dismissed as normal could continue to have symptoms of an underactive thyroid. Their moods, emotions, and overall well-being are affected by this imbalance, yet they are not receiving the care they need to get to the root of their problems....Even if the TSH level is in the lower segment of the normal range, a person may still be suffering from low-grade hypothyroidism...


Ten percent or even six percent of the population in the U.S. is NOT rare.

Other contributing factors to hypothyroidism: Stress, radioactive iodine in the water, fluoride in water, and cadmium. People with hypothyroidism have a greater risk of heart disease and much higher cholesterol. Back before there were cholesterol lowering drugs like Lipitor, the common prescription for lowering blood cholesterol was Armour Thyroid.

=========
The bullies come out of the woodwork on all the weight threads.

you are right missy, MOST overweight people are in the same boat you are in. Thanks for setting me straight.

so is insulin resistance...

And many meds, even OTCs have that lovely side effect.

Of course lets not go into the Obosogeenes in food, that even the scientists have been talking about, you know the specialists in endocrinology.

NEXT.

do not make you fat. Eating more than you metabolize does. I will never be fat, because I am ultimately responsible for what I eat and control the content and amount of what I consume. Should my metabolism slow with age I will lower my intake accordingly while increasing my exercise and activity levels to raise my metabolism as needed.

than argue with anyone who can't ever admit he's wrong.

Must be a man thing, huh? :eyes:

I'm happy to admit I'm wrong when I am actually wrong.

As a child, and up until around the age of 30, I was always very thin. Almost painfully so. And I could eat just about anything and never gain any weight.

Then age started to happen. And with age comes other things like creaking joints, muscle aches, and possibly FMS as well (it runs in the family). At 57 I just can't do the same things I used to. I also can't eat the way I used to, and I don't.

If I get a dinner in a restaurant, I bring the rest home and get one, two, or even three more meals from it.

At home, I don't eat a whole lot either.

I move around as much as I can, but it's so hard and very painful. I'm overweight but not what anyone would call morbidly obese. But it still bothers me....

anyway, yes...for many of us, age and metabolism (not to mention physical restrictions) are not our friends.

:(

on how to get healthy.

It seems exercise and eating right are the key.

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20144861,00.html

NAZI!!!!!!!!

Since when did something like being overweight, something one has COMPLETE control over, become something that others must respect?

Maybe I should make fun of one of your physical attributes, or lack of it. Maybe I should discriminate against you, too. Then again, those who are proud of the lack of personal and emotional development since junior high should be able to hold onto their delusions, shouldn't they? :eyes:

How fun! Let's all do it! :sarcasm:

that a persons weight is within their control?

Next smokers should sue, there have been numerous laws across the country banning them from bars, restaurants, government offices, etc. Bars may put up "no smoking" signs with impunity, but would they dare put up "no blacks" signs? Certainly not.

And smoking is part of who these people are, it's not under their control, they can't simply "not smoke".

Your post was the adult equivalent of "nanie nanie boo boo, stick your head in doo doo"!!!

You don't like having dark skin? Stay out of the goddam sun, then!

That is the most ridiculous statement I have read all week. If you do not think that one has control over their body weight (in MOST cases) you are sadly misinformed.

--amounts to control over body weight. There is no such thing as "eating less than you need" over time, because when you do that, you instantly adapt so that you "need" less. If the adaptation is slow, you will lose weight. If it is fast, you won't, or not enough to make any real difference. what determines fast or slow? Genetic and past life history, both of which are entirely out of your control.

this covers something that is entirely up to the individual.

You can't choose to be black, or crippled.

You can choose to consume more calories than you expend every day.

Personal responsibility isn't a bad thing.

--that isn't possible. Eat less and exercise more, and instantly the number of calories you "need" also drops dramatically. Or not--for many it doesn't, permitting weight loss. You have no control over the effects of eating less and exercising more on your body.

you can control the number of calories expended (exercise) and those added (food). This is absolutely within your control.

There's a reason you don't see people who "can't help being fat" in places without excess food.

but that means its down to personal responsibility again, for every fat or overwieght person who is genuinely obese due to medical problems there is a hundred who use that excuse....

that something which ought to be taken for granted needs to be stated.

I can choose how long I want to stay in the sun, but this imparts no control whatsoever over how dark my skin gets as a result.

the time you choose to stay in the sun and the darkness of your skin, none at all? It's completely random?

I think this explains it all. You don't seem to believe people have any control over any aspect of their bodies.

But contrary to your beliefs people can determine whether or not they are going to be fat. That is why this problem only seems to occur in developed countries with an excess of fatty foods, sedentary lifestyle and general tolerance for others being overweight. If it were really out of your control then we'd see it universally, not just here.

We have obesity as a consequence of having enough to eat. If you look at life expectancies over the past 100 years, there are too many countervailing advantages to having enough to eat to want to go back to semistarvation, voluntary or otherwise.

Interesting.

It is odd then that all doctors recommend the same thing for losing weight (exercise and proper diet), rather than simply acting in a completely random manner and hoping for the best. It seems they think there is a correlation between actions and results.

Also, europeans and canadians have plenty to eat now, you don't see the same level of obesity there. Why do you suppose that is, if diet and lifestyle have no impact on overall fatness?

I am not saying that diet and lifestyle have no impact on overall fatness, only that any particular impact for an individual is entirely unpredictable.

it is variable between people, but that's not the same thing.

Completely deprive 20 people of food for a week and what happens? I'm guessing they lose fat, at different rates perhaps, but they all lose weight.

Similarly put those same 20 people on a 20,000 calorie/day diet for a month and what happens? They all gain weight, not at the same rates of course.

The trend is predictable.

--not losing much gets you labeled as inferior to those who lose more.

it just takes longer/more effort for some.

That's like saying that because some people learn things faster, whereas you have to study really hard, that in effect it is impossible for you to learn so you shouldn't be expected to try (or be judged for remaining ignorant).

Yeah, some people have to work harder to achieve the same results as others. That's life, tough.

--to memorize a poem instead of 20. Nor are those who have better things to do with their time crapped all over because of it.

for people who learn slowly. And no one is ever judged for being unintelligent/ignorant.

Heres a suggestion: if you don't want people rolling their eyes at you don't try to claim that obesity is a lifestyle choice, or out of your control, or anything other than a very unhealthy and correctable physical state.

No one claims the right to remain ignorant and not ever have to feel bad, could be why there isn't quite the reaction to that that obesity advocates recieve.

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Expend more by more exercise, and other systems compensate by expending less. How much less? That depends entirely on your genetics and your unchangeable past history, over which you have no control whatsoever. And exactly where the hell are you supposed to stop with reducing calories? Eat less, and the next day you "need" even less. How fucked up does your ability to concentrate and focus on the other demands of work and life have to get before you decide you have had enough of setting the amount ever lower?

so yes, if you exercise more and eat less your body will become more efficient, but it will also be forced to break down fat tissue to make up for the deficit if you drop below a certain amount being taken in.

If what you were saying were true, that any drop in intake or increase in expenditures would be met with a compensatory reduction in calories needed, then dieting and exercise would never work, and people could never starve, they'd just hibernate I suppose.

No you can't control the metabolism you're born with, but that only makes it more difficult to lose weight, not impossible. As people with efficient metabolisms have been able to lose weight it is clearly possible. You can lament that it's more difficult for you than for someone else, but you can't say it cannot be done, as there is plenty of evidence to the contrary.

First, it breaks down glycogen, then muscle, and only last fat.

The reason exercise works for many is because of the LAG TIME. Some people have a lot of it, others almost none.

Speaking of difficult vs impossible, there was that old joke about the engineer approaching a lovely lady with each step half the length of the previous one. Mathematically he could never get there, but eventually he got "close enough for all practical purposess." Sometimes impossible just means impossible for all practical purposes, consistent with actually having a life. Quite a few people don't think of a demanding part-time job consisting entirely of exercise as having a life.

it goes glycogen, then fat, then muscle. Muscle degredation on a large scale is a sign of chronic starvation. You have your facts wrong.

And there are plenty of people who disprove your thesis (that it requires half your working time in exercise to achieve any meaningful results).

Sounds like you've decided to quit without trying and are now looking for excuses.

I don't give a flying fuck about success stories. Every single one of them can be matched with a story of someone else who did pretty much the same thing with far less, if any, weight loss. I'm tired of smug sociopathic shitstains claiming that one is morally superior to the other.

I've done plenty of long distance fully loaded bike touring, and have yet to lose a single pound as a result, although my body composition does tend toward more muscle in the summer. If you have a lecture for me about all the things I just have to be doing wrong, you can stuff it right up your ass.

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/reprint/287/4/E790

Fat is your bodies long term energy storage system, protein is not and is relatively poor in that function. It would make no sense to break down muscle for energy to preserve fat when fat is your energy source. That would make as much sense as running your cars AC on battery power to save gasoline.

You are incorrect on this. Sorry.

http://www.understandfatloss.com/fat-loss-details/fake-fat-loss/protein-breakdown
But if you are dieting strictly, and have both low sugar and low protein intake, then your liver will start turning the amino acids from the broken down protein into sugar (one of the many things the liver can do called neoglucogenesis). If that happens then you aren’t using the 75% of the broken down protein to rebuild new protein molecules, and muscle loss rises to up to 100% of what is broken down:

Up to 12 lbs in ten days.

"And low protein intake".

Yes, protein is important, yes you need it, and your body will break down existing proteins if you starve yourself for proteins.

So don't starve yourself for protein. I can't think of any dietician who has argued for cutting protein out of the diet to lose weight. They may suggest different sources, but cutting it out entirely? No.

You may as well say that dieting causes severe dehydration and death because if you are on a strict diet, low sugar, and no water, your body will utilize its water reserves rapidly, then you will begin to show signs of dehydration and finally die. Well yeah, no one ever said cutting out water or protein was part of a healthy diet. I think you're confusing fad diets with actual diets.

http://www.google.com/search?q=bariatry">Don't be one.

--d!

Is the proper PC term, I believe.

:popcorn:

(That's diet popcorn, by the way, without butter.)

--d!

These stories also bring out the people who claim it doesn't matter what you eat and calories mean nothing.

:shrug:

And all claims can be evaluated by science. VERY FEW people here have even looked into the scientific work on bariatry. If they did, the harsh "just eat less and exercise" attitude would disappear.

On the other hand, lots of people become angry when fat people don't accept their public whippin' with equanimity. Thus, assholes.

Eating less and exercising are very valuable in weight loss. Sadly, there are other factors involved that are going to require a great deal of effort to elucidate well enough to allow new treatments to be developed.

--d!

--d!

The question becomes not about wether to discriminate, which should be obvious to all at DU. But how such a thing might change the way we speak, act with regards to +30 BMI's. If we had a similar restriction on what might be said about Smokers would we expect it to have an eventual effect on the rates of smoking? With the growing Obeasity problem in the Western World already. We need to be carefull about the mixed message this can send to people. Should we become afraid to say anything that might be concidered negative when refering to a BMI much greater than 30.

horse,BUT he drinks no less than a case of beer a day more on weekends, does no exercise at all. I am 5'8" weigh about 250 lbs, I know I'm diabetic, I take meds. I eat low carb, don't drink or smoke,ride my bike everyday. Now by looks only who's healthier?

you need to lose wieght and continue on your excercise regimen and keep taking your meds....

think he's healthy, she's not. I know I'm not healthy and I am working on it. He denies anything is wrong and continues on his merry way. I would say he would be the bigger risk, IMO.

Many employers, particularly in our current health care predicament, will tend not to hire somebody who is obese. Even if you are not applying for a job in a "public" position. Future health care costs and all. Sort of like they do\did with pregnant women.

Many will "size you up" during the interview, and everything else being equal, will take the slimmer interviewee over the heavier one most of the time.

:shrug:

your opinion that he would be a bigger risk is mistaken.

problem. I know this person quite well and he has been drinking like this for many years. I would say his liver is not healthy at all.I am trying to make myself healthier, he is just making himself more unhealthy. But his disease is invisible, mine is not.

nt

I know him that intimately.:eyes:

my 83 year old mother who has been fat most of her life, and now has diabetes... but excellent cholesterol and high blood pressure...

or

my cousin's husband who was never fat, had cholesterol high enough that he had several strokes in his 50s, was paralyzed on one side from those strokes and then killed himself.

but mom, boy she's fat and he wasn't, so my mom MUST be the unhealthy one who's going to die young...

i've never been a person who exercises at all- but i've had far fewer weight problems than many of my friends, as i've usually held jobs that involved some level of manual labor.

The majority of overweight people in this country are lazy and eat too much crap. Nothing else to it.

What is wrong with people? Why can't they just stop eating!!!!!!!!

There. How does that feel?

Read Kessler's the End of Overeating and also drive in the poor area of town

Look for the local supermarket selling fresh vegies and fruits for an affordable price.

Those are your two clues

because it's easier to be lazy and ignorant and feel morally superior to the fat.

Doctor: You need to lose weight, 400 lbs on a 5 foot frame is dangerous; fat person: I'm suing you for discriminating against me. I can be as fat as I want and you have to keep me healthy.



Sigh. What's next, discriminating against partially blind people (me)? PS, I'm 58 pounds overweight, fat, but I take so many steroids I have no choice, so if you want to call me fatty, have at it, but don't call me Herman.

a Plutocracy getting rich from fat, sick people.

There is no nutritional education in this country. I can cite a study saying that animal fat is bad for you and raises your cholesterol, and there will be 17 other studies de-bunking it. Mostly, because grants for these studies come from the beef and pork industries. It's a minefield out there when it comes to food, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if down the road we find that the processed food manufacturers are juicing their products up to make 'em more addicting. Like the Cig companies shooting nicotine into theirs.

If you have ever given up eating Fast, Processed, or Deep-Fried food this is what happens: initially, you crave it overwhelmingly. But if you can live without it for a month or so, find satisfaction in fresh stuff, you lose your taste for it. I used to inhale a whole bag of potato chips; now I would rather snack on carrots and grapes.

Point I'm making, don't blame the consumer, who's the target of corporate greed. But Mr/Ms Consumer, you have to take the time to research what you're eating and how much activity you're getting. Just know the System is trying to suck you dry, and keeping you fat and sick means you can be controlled. It's up to us as individuals to not let that happen.

"...but if the patient says they do not want to talk about that then you are asked to respect those wishes."

what if the problem that brought the person to the dr.s' office is directly related to weight?

"i'm having back pain..."

"you need to lose weight"

"i don't want to talk about that"

what's a dr. to do?

A doctor can only do what is permissible within law. Anything else risks having his license revoked. Then, he can't help anybody at all.

:hi:

Me: I've got some problems with my neck. I'm on the phone all day long and I think I'm having muscle spasms and it hurts. Can you help me?

Doctor: You know, you wouldn't have this problem if you'd lose 20 pounds.

Me: Um, I really think this has more to do with my job than my weight.

Doctor: No. It is your weight. Talk to me again when you are at least 20 pounds lighter.

Doctor leaves the room and I go to a different doctor who treated the actual problem, writing me a note to get a headset for the phone (before headsets were commonplace) and some muscle relaxers to deal with the pain for short term.

Yeah, clearly it was my weight that was the big issue.

You know why many (not all, mind you) fat people are sick? Because we don't go to the doctor until we're REALLY, REALLY sick because we know that our doctors will put any illness down to weight instead of finding out what really is going on.

Broken leg? Lose weight.

Flu? Lose weight.

UTI? Lose weight

What the ordinance is addressing is the fact that SOMETIMES weight is not the sole reason for health problems.

FYI, not all women are genetically programmed to be a size 0....hell, some of us will never even make it to single digit sizes without draconian measures. Even at the weight at which I feel my best, I'm "fat" by the charts.

I can get down to a size 12...it takes at minimum of 5 high impact aerobics classes weekly, three miles of walking daily, regular weight training, and an intake of no more than 1200 calories per day to maintain. But then, I should just get on that program and keep it up...after all, if I decreased my intake even more, I'd probably be so thin that I'd even be acceptable to fly on a plane or go out in public.

I quit smoking and drinking sodas(he still does), get my teeth cleaned every three months and use Rx mouth wash so my oral health would improve.My boyfriend does not floss or use mouth rinse nor does he get his teeth cleaned professionally and he kept smoking and drinking soda and had better looking teeth and gums and has not had dental problems I have had.
I think that while there are people more prone to put on weight, they could lose it with more work and upkeep of their bodies.
I think that weight like my teeth are health issues. I think that doctors should be able to tell us we need to go on an exercise/diet program if we need to lose weight just as a dentist should be able to tell us to quit smoking and consuming sodas if we need to preserve our gums.
I know people will always judge us on our appearance and look down on overweight or people with missing teeth and that sucks ass but I dont think this a problem that can be solved through legislation

And no, I'm not talking about the OP.

i think their numbers have multiples.

All-you-can-eat buffets?

and there are few jobs that a person who is obese cannot do... fire rescue comes to mind.

Trust me, I know...

But there are many other jobs where your size will have an effect in whether you get the job, or even keep it. That is what they are talking about.

Now telling the doctors don't address weight issues... FAIL.

But the obese are unable to do certain jobs like the one you mentioned.

Fail is right. Don't make self-denial official policy.

and obesity is far more complex than just exercise and diet. It was psychiatric issues, and in case of medical issues, it can be directly related to medicines, or other problems.

We also are finding out that the chemicals we eat may have a lot to do with it.

Yep, they are coming back to hunt us.

And it's a doctor's responsibility to tell patients that, regardless of whether or not they'll get butthurt over it.

i'm technically "morbidly obese" but i'll stack up my blood pressure, blood sugar, triglycerides and cholesterol numbers against many of the thin people i know any day.

i swim, i work out on the elliptical, i lift weights, i walk my dogs, i hike, i bike, i ride horses.

my cousin's husband, who NEVER had a weight problem, had several strokes from high cholesterol, was paralyzed, and ended up killing himself. but he was never FAT so oh well :shrug:

And my most recent family Dr. would disagree with you. As would science.

You can be healthy and fat, unhealthy and fat, healthy and thin, unhealthy and thin. This focus on fat instead of health is detrimental to peoples health.

unless its somehow job related

And all the while we've been getting fatter.

Before they had lipitor.

True, it's associated with atrial fibrillation, but this is entirely unrelated to myocardial infarction. One is an electrical problem and the other is a plumbing problem.

I'd suspect cutting the percent of smokers to ~20% is more relevant. Reduces heart disease and promotes weight gain at the same time.

Back in 1984. I had almost collapsed b/c an idiot doc took me OFF thyroid five years earlier.

So I go to a doc who says to start at one grain per day and gradually go all the way up to EIGHT grains per day. A usual therapeutic dosage is one or two grains of Armour per day.
I take four grains per day.

How did I feel on EIGHT grains per day?? No more hyper than I did on four. Your average doctor would shit bricks if a patient did that, b/c it would probably kill them.

Me? I have an absorption problem, I guess.

His weight kept fluctuating by 30 or 40 pounds one way or another until they got the right dosage.

antibodies out the wazoo.

But it doesn't surprise me since it's an autoimmune disease.

but people really do come in different shapes, and we ought to recognize that.

I'm not saying most morbidly obese people are naturally that size, but very often a person will be judged fat when they're really very active, healthy, and eating well.

I do triathlons and sprint tri's off and on, and while I'm not carrying much extra weight myself, a lot of the people I've trained with are. One guy in particular is consistently in the top 10 of big tri events-- the guy is amazing-- and to look at him, you'd think he was a couch potato and McDonald's fan. He's not. Eats very well (far as I know), works out like a monster. Again, not morbidly obese, but certainly not a "Men's Fitness" model.

I know several women who do great in triathlons and are probably carrying an extra 40lbs. on them.

Just something to think about. That "fatty" you're dispensing advice to may very well be living healthier than you are.

:eyes:

In full disclosure, my internist told me I need to lose ten pounds. And, she's right, I do and I'm trying. I suppose that means I also should keep the straw out of the chardonnay bottle. ;)

http://server1.noblenet.org:8080/dspace/bitstream/10262/3072/12/edwardsschool9a.jpg



If you see any difference between these two pictures - other than clothes, then this would be a better indication than any that eating habits have gotten either better or worse in the US over the years.

1. That's a 1st Amendment violation.

2. I want my doctor to tell me the truth. We have a right to free from malice, but not from honest, professional opinions. As a general principal, people do not have a right to be free from having their feelings hurt because someone (especially a doctor) disagrees with ones defensive psychological construct.

3. Obviously, violence is wrong and should be prosecuted.

It's always comical to me to read these threads, because they pop up with clockwork regularity. Those who've never struggled with their weight can't wait to tell the rest of us how they have the moral high ground. After all, fat in this country opens one up to the most virulent verbal and social abuse in the name of "personal responsibility" and "concern" about "health". Actually, it's bullying. After all, it's fun to embrace one's inner junior high student, because fat is the last socially acceptable prejudice. I read it daily on DU.

If any of you think that the fat don't know, don't care, or enjoy how we're treated on a daily basis by those who believe we don't get enough abuse, you're insane. There's a reason the diet industry rakes in $33 billion a year in the USA. There's also a reason people will spend a minimum of $16,000 (the latest quote in the Seattle area, for instance; people are traveling to other countries to get the lap band or gastric bypass as well,) on bariatric surgery with a minimal success rate and a very high mortality rate. After all, they'll do anything to be thin. It would be nice to walk down the street, walk into a social gathering or a job interview or a date, and be treated like anyone else is. Some people are willing to die to achieve it.

For someone like me, with a metabolic condition that ensures I will probably NEVER be normal size, it's good to be able to separate the assholes from people worth knowing. Luckily for me, there's a lot of people worth knowing in my life. I remain grateful for the ignore function, and the knowledge that I will never have the misfortune of any RL encounter at all with the fat bashers in this thread and so many others. They can't wait to spew their poison, and do so at every opportunity. It says a lot more about them than it's ever going to say about me.

Anything easy and that doesn't involve truly watching their diet and exercising regularly; that is...

get empathy from many. Overweight people are more often times met with scorn or lectures.

To improve your health often means changing eating habits (and it's tough to give up favorite foods) and exercising (you get really really sore muscles when you first start exercising). It's miserable at times but after awhile if you stick with it your body adjusts and you actually feel better, stronger and healthier. A lot of people (actually I'd venture to say MOST) end up losing weight and looking better. That's in addition to being healthier.

I don't agree with picking on people for being fat or harassing them in any way shape or form. However most doctors know the benefits of maintaining a healthy weight and lifestyle. Telling someone who is overweight with type 2 diabetes to lose weight is a medically sound advice I would think (I'm no doctor though). He/she can't force the change anymore than he/she can force someone to take their medication, quit smoking, quit drinking, brush their teeth or anything else...you're going to a doctor for advice, he/she gives it, then the ball is your court.

Making the calling of someone a "fatass" hate speech on the other hand.....STUUUUUUPID!

That is hate speech.

should never be illegal.

i dont think we hate fat people as a society. i do believe we think they are inferior, ironic as most of us are overweight

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=222x73204

Full article:
http://thyroid.about.com/od/loseweightsuccessfully/a/weight-loss-diet.htm

First they talk about leptin and reverse T-3.

We had one person who was eating 800 calories a day after having gastric bypass and she was still gaining weight. Nobody believed that was all she was eating until they put her in the hospital and monitored her food intake. They insisted her thyroid was fine, as she had a normal TSH, T4 and T3. When we checked her reverse T3, however, and it was over 800 and her leptin was 75. We checked her metabolic rate and it was 45% below normal. Dieting alone would, of course, never work with such a patient.

Also, toxins such as biphenyl-A can block the thyroid receptors everywhere in the body except for the pituitary, which has different receptors. So due to the ubiquitous nature of these toxins, I believe that everyone has a relative deficiency of thyroid activity that is not detected by the TSH. People blame food intake and lack of exercise for the obesity problem in this country, but I think a major problem is the thyroid-disrupting toxins, as well as stress.

All those trainers and health gurus that never had a weight problem who tell you to do just as they do don’t realize what a disadvantage it is for people who have had a long-term weight problem. Of course, even these trainers would not even be able to maintain their weight with a metabolism that is 20 to 40% below normal.

We test the resting metabolic rate in our thyroid patients and find it inversely correlates with the reverse T3. The higher the reverse T3, the lower the metabolism, with many such individuals having a metabolism that is 20 to 40% lower than expected for their body mass index (BMI). Nobody believes how little they eat, and they are made to feel like failures -- despite doing everything right. Until their metabolic abnormalities are addressed, diet and exercise will certainly fail to achieve long-term success.

and obese people

and by discrimination, i mean non-job related discrimination

and all this time the free market people have been saying not to have regulations because companies will higher the best people - and yet we have seen time and again they don't.

Discrimination is alive and well, a true free market would ensure people are hired on merit.

in the sense that if you are a model, them weight is a bona fide occupational qualification. if you are a systems analyst your weight is irrelevant

regardless the discrimination exists towards analyst positions

I want to lose 20 pounds. I am trying extremely hard. My metabolism is incredibly slow which is common in many diabetics for some reason. I am not morbidly obese, I fit into a size 10 or 12 but just want to be where I was before I had my kids and got diagnosed with the diabetes. Losing weight can make me healthier in general. For anyone with metabolic issues, I feel for you. It's a tough, long, lonely road. I generally eat about 1000 calories a day. It is tough and sometimes I want to give up but what can I say, it has to be done.

I have no problem with my doc reminding me that I need to take off some weight. :eyes:

and I say this as a 125 pound gal