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Why is oil shooting up at a time of year it traditionally falls off? I think I know why.

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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 09:56 AM
Original message
Why is oil shooting up at a time of year it traditionally falls off? I think I know why.
Edited on Mon Oct-26-09 09:59 AM by Roland99
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/crude-futures-slip-back-below-80-on-globex-2009-10-25

Crude-oil prices had managed to close above the $80 level for the past three trading sessions in New York, with the recent rally likely due to "speculative inflows into the futures market, given the lack of improvement in fundamentals," analysts at Credit Suisse said in a note to clients Monday.


Firms like Goldman Sachs are jumping back into the oil markets like they did in 2008 when they shot oil up to about $150/bbl. Now they're using the bailout money to fund their speculative buying. Using *our* dollars *against* us!!

WHY OH WHY won't Obama wake up to the fact that Geithner, Bernanke, Summers, etc. ARE THE PROBLEM?!?!

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SoCalNative Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
1. I was under the impression
that Goldman-Sachs paid back the TARP money they took.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. It appears they did...back in June.
Wish I could find the article I came across a few days showing how firms like GS were able to use TARP money to buy up assets for pennies on the dollar (assets they'd help to scuttle the costs of with their greedy mechanisms) and now they're using their new profits to rejoin the oil speculation market. It makes NO sense for oil to be over $80/bbl right now. NONE.
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. Dollar has fallen 20% this year.
There is no free lunch.

We keep spending more money then we have except dollar to keep falling and thus everything valued in dollars to rise.


Very simple concept:
If you make $10,000 you can spend <= $10,000.
If you are govt and have receipts of $2.2 trillion you can spend <= $2.2 trillion.

Until America wakes up to the awfully simple reality things will only get worse.

BTW: I am sure speculators are helping but all commodities are rising as the dollar is losing purchasing power.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Oil has risen 16% in the last 3 weeks!
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. True
but remember that $13 billion was funneled through AIG to Goldman.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. Ah...this is something >>>>>>>>
Not quite the article I was looking for but a great thread, nonetheless.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=6769019

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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. Goldman Sachs has yet to pay back the $19B backdoor bailout..
that was funneled to them through AIG or any of the other tens of billions they gained through TALF, TLGP, etc.
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leanderj Donating Member (75 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
2. Exactly. Wouldn't you like to use the Treasury as your personal financier and cosigner?
They're raping the public and nobody is talking about it.
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Cirque du So-What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
3. Heard something similar yesterday on CNN - radio edition
I'd support regulations that impose a punitive tax on profits made from speculative transactions - no exceptions. This is horseshit that artificially manipulates the economy, provides undeserved riches to the players & contributes nothing worthwhile to society.

Fuck speculators!

That is all.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
5. Yeah well, THANK GAWD IT PASSED!
Edited on Mon Oct-26-09 10:04 AM by SammyWinstonJack
:silly:
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
6. The banks borrow from Feds at ZERO %, gamble with the money,
make a profit in market speculation, pay back the free money they got, repeat.
That was the whole point in then getting Bernanke to reduce interest rates to ZERO and in making
the former investment houses like GMSachs a "bank".
As a side benefit, you and I cannot grow our dollars because of the low interest rate, there fore THEY
get to increase the income inequality.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. “We have to tolerate the inequality as a way to achieve greater prosperity and opportunity for all"
Goldman Sachs’s Griffiths Says Inequality Helps All
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a8upOpH5Q3Tw


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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Another saying: " a rising tide lifts all yachts"
:mad:
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. Yeah...trickle-down has been around for over a century and it NEVER works
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Ernesto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
9. It was only a matter of time.....
Rising oil prices should help the recovery............. (NOT!)
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
14. "Speculation is driving the price of oil"
Speculation is driving the price of oil
http://www.cityam.com/markets-and-investments/ylxshtp3hk.html

OIL’S break through to $80 per barrel earlier this week was attributed to yet another bout of dollar weakness in forex markets, or a strong gasoline inventory draw-down in the US. But looking at the truly fundamental factors – the Organisation of the Petroleum Exporting Countries’ (Opec) spare production capacity standing at a whopping 5.5m barrels per day, global crude inventories still sky-high and a petrol-based product glut so severe that refineries are curtailing output – it is clear that only speculative pressure adequately explains fresh oil price hikes.

Despite the evidence of last year’s petromania, some still deny that speculation materially affects oil prices. CME Group, which runs the Nymex oil futures exchange and whose daily-traded front month contract sets the benchmark global oil price, recently objected to plans by US commodity futures regulator the CFTC to rein in financial sector speculation on that exchange.

...

Recent indications are that these ambitions have been significantly watered down. Indeed, this may be why oil is now powering ahead again. The ongoing willingness of the financial investment sector to buy into oil prices – trading oil to satisfy their own concerns regarding dollar weakness and the bogey of inflation fears rather than giving any due regard to fundamental crude oil supply and demand factors – is certainly recognised as a key variable in near-term oil price forecasts by analysts.

Societe Generale’s global head of oil research Mike Wittner acknowledges that inflation/dollar concern on the part of financial sector investors is a key “non-fundamental” factor that needs to remain “constructive” in order for his $90 per barrel August 2010 oil price forecast to pan out.


Plenty of other market forecasters are calling for a rise up to $100/bbl as global economic conditions improve.

I'm sorry, but the global economy isn't expanding at 50% annually! Not even 10%!

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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
15. It always comes back to Goldman Sachs, doesn't it?
Next time, "Let Goldman Sachs Fail"
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. And we used to think Carlyle Group was the bad guy.
They ain't got nothing on Goldman!
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
19. It's over-speculation, period. It doesn't matter who's behind it.
If it weren't Goldman, it'd be someone else. End the over-speculation.
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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 04:38 AM
Response to Original message
20. but but but they said on the news that oil going up is a sign
that the economic crisis is over and that demand is back up.........
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