I am angry but not sure how I want to deal with this parenting issue of sorts

First I am an atheist. I voted for Obama. My 5 kids tend to follow my lead.

Now the problem..my 10 yr old has a buddy, who has a father that is a crazy rw religious type. He does not know we are atheist I just don't talk to the parents much and its never come up . it is just as well because when he found out we liked Obama he stopped letting his son play with my son for weeks. This father often lectures my kid on god and Jesus, how evil Obama is ect...

I let most of it go..my son comes home asks me about it and we talk about it.

This last time though....the father starts lecturing on abortion how evil it is and tells my son his ideas on partial birth abortion. He told him they shove a screw driver up the lady and into the babies brain.

ok so I had to discuss partial birth abortions with my 10 yr old ..nice hu. I told him that he can still play with his friend but only at our house for now. I am itching to let the dad have it.... but I want my son to still be able to play with his friend.

I am still in shock that anyone thought that was an ok conversation to have my kid..

esp when we talk about late term abortions we generally forget to tell people, how in most of these situations the woman would die or the fetus has a deadly/debilatiting disease

i would be infuriated about this too

They fill their heads with all kinds of gruesome imagery and manipulate their emotions. Young kids are especially vulnerable to it because they don't understand the world yet and can't contextualize something like abortion and also because kids internalize things as being about themselves. What if my mom had aborted me?? I was "pro-life" until I was a teenager and could comprehend things outside of myself and realized that safe, legal abortion was a necessary thing.

with a kid whose parent doesn't have healthy boundaries? Asking for problems, imo.

He did nothing wrong. I want him to keep coming to me with questions if he has them. I don't want him to think I can't ma that she will go off and I wont be able to play with my friends.

and get your help with abuse. Because what that winger did was abusive.

Good luck

:hi:

to play with your child, but in your home only. Limit all contact between your child and the other kid's father to instances where you are also present, to minimize his opportunities to discuss inappropriate subjects with you child.

Totally agree. Don't take the friend away ~~ yes, the parent is an asshole, but the child is not to blame. Never allow your child to be alone around the RW nutso father of his friend.

told your son what he thinks is wrong with gay sex? This guy is bad news. This isn't a flippant opinion. He ignores boundaries of CHILDREN.

to keep this nutcase from interacting with your child.

I suspect there are more rational answers to this problem, especially as it involves a 10-year-old child . . .

It's not the kids' fault

to ream out the dad, you won't get anywhere except for a momentary feeling of satisfaction from venting. It's hard but I would let it go, feel sorry for the guy's kid, and relish that your son is growing up in a home that isn't filled with fear.

Dad feels that his behavior is justified because it's "God's will". Calling him out would only serve to increase the level of abuse or to incite Fundy-dad to call for a shunning of OP's son.

Better to treat it as 1 of life's alarming misadventure's and use it as a learning situation for the boy.

It takes a serious conversation where you explain why it is inappropriate for the child to be in the house with that man. He is inflicting verbal abuse on your child and I would not trust him. There are countless documented cases of extremists masking their perversion behind religion. If the children want to meet at your house or on neutral territory, there shouldn't be any problem with that. It is an uncomfortable discussion, but a necessary one.

I am just fighting the urge to go off on the Dad. Can you imagine if I talked to his kid about birth control? I am sure he would say that is up to him to tell his kid..and I am pretty sure he would not be nice about it.

Crazy loon father could hardly complain, since that's what he did.

Everyone should smoke it constantly. Be sure to lace the discussion with a shitload of sarcasm and silly assertions!

Your thought was mine exactly. He'd likely come unglued over you talking to his kid about bc.

Your children are getting to see how far out some people are. This will help them make better decisions in the near future.

Also, you would be surprised what else they hear. Vulgar, obscene, and other harmful things are much worse for them than this right wing nutjob.

The best thing to do is teach your children how to make fun of right wing extremists and their views. Children love to laugh at people- ESPECIALLY PEOPLE THAT TAKE THEMSELVES AND THEIR IDEAS TOO SERIOUSLY!!

Otherwise you might look like you are trying to be overbearing with liberal ideas- not a good thing.

Short of physical molestation..

Sticking a screwdriver in a woman to stab a baby in the head?

That's pretty graphic..

...yawn..wuh? Oh yeah. OBVIOUS.

I probably would just encourage my son to play with other friends and avoid that family altogether. Many of my relatives are right wing nutty and I already won't let them spend any unsupervised time around my kids.

worry about my son being around someone who had different political and religious views...I have plenty of friends on the other side of both fences and we argue and sometimes get a little steamed but they don't have those conversations with the kids. Maybe I just don't get out enough. I grew up with RW foster parents who went ot church every sunday...they where not like these folks.

The friend's father is trying to indoctrinate your child as well as discuss inappropriate topics for his age level.

the man is crazy and I just do not see how he thought that was an ok conversation to have with a 10 yr old any 10 yr old but..particularly one that is not his.

come up with a workable solution by limiting the play time to your house only. The Dad sounds like a zealot who won't be happy until he screws up his kid's friend ship with your son. I suspect the guy is itching to get into it with you, as well. The self righteous prick won't stop with your son.

I really feel sorry for the guy's kid. If he talks like this to all of his son's friends then I wouldn't doubt that there are more parents who share your concerns about the appropriateness of the old man's rants.

is 7.

...but that never stops me from offering! :evilgrin:

My advice is to think very carefully about the unsaid message you're sending to your kid when you deal with the situation. Be prepared to admit that targeting the neighbor for his behavior is not much better than him targeting others out of religious or ethnic bigotry.

I think it's better to tell kids "It's sad Mr. Jones is so narrow-minded. Sometimes he gets angry at other folks for reasons that might not make much sense, but we should just overlook it and not get upset about it."

The point is to not legitimize his behavior by letting it influence yours. Tell your kids that Mr. Jones lets his beliefs get the better of him, and use the experience as a teachable moment rather than as an opportunity to model the equivalent behavior, i.e. don't say "You should not play with (Mr. Jones' kid) because his dad is a jerk." That tells kids that we withhold friendship from jerks, which is EXACTLY how Mr. Jones is likely to behave.

My $0.02. Find a way to NOT model the same conflict for your kid.

on edit-- I notice lots of advice in this thread already that urges a confrontational approach. I think that's the least likely to produce any positive outcome in the long run. What will your kids learn from this experience?

She said the boys are welcome to play at her house.

She's only preventing him from being exposed to that father anymore.

I was speaking metaphorically to make a larger point. Trying to avoid the father is not really any different, IMO.

Case in point-- I'm an atheist too, and my daughter grew up DEEP in the bible belt. We constantly had to deal with religious differences with the neighbors and her other friends. Mostly, we just shrugged and said "Well, that's just what they believe. It's no harm to us."

If that father would do that to a 10 year old, I wouldn't trust him around my child either.

it crossed the line into a discussion of age inappropriate topic without parental permission.

The other dads beliefs aren't why the mom won't let her son go back to the house.

It's the abusive and inappropriate behavior of the dad that is the reason. It's not religious differences, it's abusive inappropriate behavior that is the reason.

what if the father of the other child was drunk and the only one supervising the kids? What if he showed the kid pictures of an autopsy to scare them (closer to what happened)?

The other parent has boundary issues with what is and is NOT appropriate to discuss with someone else's 10 year old. It is perfectly reasonable to say you can see little Timmy but not at his house because his Father does/says things that are not appropriate.

The parent in the OP already established a pattern demonstrating to their child that the issue is NOT wither you agree with someone or not.

was the usual political ranting, that was one thing.

Graphic (and incorrect) descriptions of abortions to children that age? That's not suitable.

Should he be allowed to have graphic conversations about sex with the kids? I don't think so. And I do think his willingness - sounds like eagerness, even - to do that with someone else's child is quite troublesome.

and probably his own children have been subjected to it --

This is not someone who values discussions or truth -- it is someone who

is relying on authoritarianism rule --

Discussion is a TWO-WAY STREET but this parent isn't seeking that -- he's

seeking to overcome a young child who would certainly be unable on his own

to deal with what this adult is saying.

that this man does not know boundaries around children. It isn't just a matter of *beliefs*. It is taking action to talk to children about topics that should be off limits to non-parental figures. I call out of bounds.

dad or forbid your kid to play with him, that would cause uncomfortable feelings for your son and maybe his friend or father would talk trash about you and the family -- THAT would be really tough on a 10 year old.

As long as you're able to speak with him and explain your views, I think you and he will be fine. :hug:

and he will be exposed to more and more conflicting opinions as he grows. You've set a precedent where he can safely come home and discuss these things with you, without fear of negative repercussions.

Good for you!

if you say anything to them you know they will stop them playing at all. what you are doing is probably the best but i would never allow any sleepovers at his house even for a b'day.

my son said mom I don't want to think about this ...I am 10 I just wanted to play. It was very hard to go over this and try to stay at his level..he seems fine with how talked about it...but it was not a place I was prepared to go with a 10 yr old.

Obviously it was inappropriate for the kids father to bring up. Your rule is the reasonable way to approach the situation.
I would leave it at that. If the friends dad contacts you and asks why you set the rule just tell him you were uncomfortable with the topics that were being discussed. Keep it simple. It isn't like you will change his mind on wither it was appropriate.

Sorry people suck.

Still part of me wants to let the guy have it....sigh...

I can sympathize with the desire for a good yelling.

Same as we might all sympathize with someone saying they want to torture a child rapist.
But in the end that isn't really the policy we support. It is just an emotional response that we acknowledge. That is what separates the reasonable from the reactionary.

It really does sound like you are handling things very very well. Making sure your child feels safe coming to you with any issue. Discussing the previous topics that have come up in a rational manner rather than flying off the hook, etc. Seems like you are doing everything to raise someone who thinks things through rather than reacting rashly. Good for you.

And about something as harmless as getting good grades! Yet they think they have the right to discuss sensitive topics with a child not their own? That's really arrogant and out of bounds.

I'd not let my kid go over to the friend's house when the dad will be there. Period.

It's different when a child is a little older, like over 14 and have some sense of perspective. Ten years old is too young.

I would consider a conversation with the Father. Now, by conversation, I don;t mean "shut your rw mouth and stop trying to shove your worthless christian values in my sons mind" or "continue talking like this to my son i will sue your ass". I mean "I really belive that much of what you talk to my son about I believe is beyond a 10 year old and would appreciate you not doing it". Otherwise your son has lost a good friend.

Of course, part of the conversation should include "We claim the right to educate our child. You may not arrogate that function."

Of course, not in those words.

Sometimes we have to learn not to go into a problem with our guns blazing but instead try to do what will solve the problem for all involved.

Letting your child play with his friend only at your home is certainly the best way to deal with the offending parent.

If the friend's dad questions the restriction then you can tell him that you feel he is a bad influence on your son and that you do not want your boy subjected to inappropriate topics of conversation. I'd refrain from any further details. He knows what he said to your son.

You sound like an excellent parent who is considering a difficult situation from every angle.

You're not limiting your son by not letting him see his friend any more and I think you're being smart by not letting him go to the friend's house anymore. That father obviously has boundary issues and doesn't understand appropriate behavior or topics for children.

It's great you have the kind of relationship with your son that he feels comfortable asking you questions and you're willingness to listen and respond is invaluable.

You are also doing a kindness to your son's friend by not rejecting him because of the father. Hopefully some of that tolerance and knowing that there are different world views will rub off on the boy.

One of the best compliments I got was from a born again christian my family knows through my daughter's girl scout troop.

I'm an atheist as well, but she said while over on our patio while the kids were playing that our family was one of the only one she would trust with her children and she has.

Hell, we even helped sponsor a missionary trip she took to Jamaica for christ's sake.

That is why this is sooo shocking to me.

I would tell my son that the boy will be a school-time friend, and would be welcome at YOUR home, but that he would not be allowed at that kid's home.

I would not confront the Dad, for two reasons..

1) he will not change his mind
2) it spills over into the kids' lives

out of the realm where we worry about being tolerant of everybody's views. It's absolutely un-acceptable for him to be lecturing someone else's child on this subject in the first place. The violent imagery is a warning sign of crazy. You are doing the right thing.

I have sat on this for a week. Well I talked to my son the moment he told me but I have said nothing to the offending parent. I Want to say a lot to him..very badly....but I think I will leave it as is. No more play at the friends house and if I get asked about it I will try very hard to keep it short and civil.

I just feel like he stoled a piece of my sons innocents...

it is a bad place to be for the kids.

i am sorry your son was forced to experience this with an adult. i live in the panhandle of texas. there are three homes ny boys wont go to because the father does not behave in appropriate ways i want for my children. i have made clear to boys why. they understand why. and the children are always welcome here. mine wont go there.

one father is an x. i told the x wife why son wont be trusted in this fathers care. boys are good friend with her boys. i wont do it.

i dont have a problem speaking to any of the fathers, i just dont know them, and occassion hasnt arisen for me to address it with them

i dont know if i would say anything to this father. maybe would because it is so beyond the scale of appropriate.

You don't want to keep your child from his friend, but the friend's father has shown himself unsuitable to supervise children.

Exposing 10 year old kids to crap like that? What has happened to people????? That's disgusting. Fundies think liberals have coarsened this country but it is the exact opposite, they are completely inappropriate in their ravings, especially around children.

This guy is messed up for talking about it. It should be kept secret.

But I think honest conversations about the procedure, and why it is often necessary (to save the woman's life or because the fetus is severely damaged) are needed. Part of the problem IMO is that there's too much secrecy surrounding the issue, which allows the anti-choicers to fill the void with their lies.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Because he had the guts to do the least awful thing, quietly and with dignity. Someone who demonizes this, and obsesses about it, is sick and should be treated. These cases are tragedies, no matter how they are resolved, and heroes like Dr. Tiller help them be resolved in the least tragic way.

for myself: they encouraged rational discussions and rational questions. Some of the neighbors, meanwhile, thought that anyone who didn't agree with their views were "communists" -- and it's an accusation I heard regularly from fourth grade on. My parents didn't try to shield me from it

I don't know what to tell you about a third or fourth grader -- but in two or three years that kid's mind is going to start suddenly blooming towards adulthood, and for the rest of his life he's going to have to deal with various bozos, yahoos, and assorted nutbars. If you teach him to ask questions, to treat others with basic decency and courtesy, to tolerate those who disagree with him, and to think things through himself, you'll have done him a real favor

Should you decide to try to talk to this father, you may want to do so in writing. It will keep you from getting too angry "in the heat of the moment" at him, and saying things you may regret. He was clearly way over the line, and your anger is understandable, but if you expressed it to him his reaction would likely be to end the children's friendship.

No 10 year old should a) be expected to comprehend partial birth abortion or b) be given a flawed, graphic description. I wouldn't let my kid within a mile of this person.

allowing your son to play with his buddy ONLY at your house, away from the buddy's wacko dad.

Abortion is not an OK topic to bring up with other people's kids, and that includes "partial birth abortions"! I know that if a parent of one of my kids' friends had done that - or even simply tried to push religion on my son or daughter (we're atheists too) - I'd have come unglued and let loose on the effer. That's not to say it would have been the right thing to do, just that I'd have done it.

Caterwauling about "teh unborn baybeez" all the live long day allows them to obsess about sex and the dirty, dirty women who have it in a socially approved manner. I'd keep my kid as far away from that creep as possible. I'm not saying all wingnut men are sexual predators, but too many of them turn out to be to let a kid near one.

http://republicansexoffenders.com/

I can tell you have good instincts, so I hope you will continue to let off steam where it is safe, ignore the ignorant responses with 'advice", and know you are continuing to put the good of your child first and foremost, and helping another child along the way.

I don't envy you having to explain all of that to a 10 year old! I had it tough, but that is unimaginable to me.

You're doing great... it's no wonder you're so livid you could spit nails. Any sensitive parent would feel the same way!

:applause: for you!

The whack-job's kid is probably in desperate need of contact with SANE, caring people.

YOU and your family are those people.

You have no idea how much your sanity, boundaries and good sense mean to that kid. May just be one of the anchors to get him through what is probably a torturous childhood.

My opinion, as I look back on my own childhood.

He'd be at your house with a bat looking to beat your ass if you so much as had a casual birth control conversation ( no sex without a condom) with HIS kid.

Protecting ones self responsibly if you're going to do it regardless vs. shiv a baby's brain by way of a mother's vagina.... hmmm?

Rightwingers are a blight.

make sure your child knows he has a choice about whether he keeps playing with this kid or not if things start to get weird. In other words...you both keep in touch with his feelings and if the idea comes that he can't have this friend anymore because it isn't worth it, it will be his decision. I bet you are already doing that.

Any parent who proselytizes the ten year old child of another person is not a safe adult with whom to leave your child. And especially when the adult doing the proselytizing is a fundie who thinks he's on a mission from God.

I would never let my child return to that house. The father is abusive. It's child abuse to talk to other people's kids about things like "partial birth abortion."