9 years without health care. Tens of thousands in debt.

And this bill is the best they can do? And people are actually satisfied with it?

Wife has diabetes, heart disease and is in need of a hip replacement. My middle son has Autism. My youngest, whom we adopted, has Muscular Dystrophy.
I am self employed so there is no employer coverage. Any health insurance company just laughs at us when we try to get coverage. I make way too much to get any assistance. The MD association takes our youngest for free so that is covered but anything else we have to pay cash for. $300 a month in medications. $225 per visit to the doctor. God forbid we need to go to the emergency room. I'm still paying for the last visit. Over 10 grand for 4 hours in the e-room.

What I don't get is how anyone could be not only satisfied but happy with this bill. It's a gift to the insurance industry and a half assed band aid to a system that needed open heart surgery. Unless the proponents are already covered, is that the discrepancy here? Are the people who are happy with this piece of shit bill already doing ok? Because coming from someone who is in desperate need of real reform this is a pile of crap.

And please, don't tell me this is the "first step" and be patient. There are people in my family who may not have the time you do to wait for CHANGE.

And it will be based on your income.

Why don't you want that?

What part of that do you not understand?

You're going to have to be all but out on the street to get any help.

If he has a household income of over $90,000 then he won't get help. Otherwise he will. If he has a household income of over $90,000, oh boohoo he'll have to pay for his own health insurance and it can't be denied to him. It also will have out of pocket caps, and premium pay-out requirements that will guarantee they aren't just charging him a bunch of money and not paying for medical services. And since he's self-employed, he'll also get small business assistance to purchase insurance or the public plan.

Sounds like he's a helluva lot better off to me. Even if we got single payer, his taxes would have gone up at least as much as he'll pay for a premium.

That does not translate to care! Cheap premiums means limited care, high deductibles and co-pays. Wake the hell up! Mandated premiums is not mandated care!

Wake Up. This is as good as you're going to get.

Is that what you are saying? Crumbs, and it's not even that, are okay? Is this more "let them eat cake" plutocratic BS and you seem to be apologizing for it?

Must be nice from where you're sitting.

Deductibles and co-pays are the least of the problem.

It's the best we're going to get because Congress is bought and paid for by the insurance companies.

As the public option premium will be.

This is the final package and it's going to Obama to sign with no more changes?

I put a few extra on that so you wouldn't miss the fact it was a question..

Is the bill going to Obama to sign as it stands right now?

Or is there opportunity for it to be changed in some way or ways before it becomes law?

What's your point? What would you like to change?

--that the budget deficit goes too high.

So what you're saying is that free medical care for well off people is the only thing acceptable to you?

Under the current plan you won't be charged more than other families because of your family's previously existing conditions.

Did you even read Sandnsea's explanation? If you don't make enough money to pay premiums, you get a subsidy.

If you make too much money to get subsidies, what the fuck are you bitching about?

I rec your thread. But more importantly, I can not agree more. For many people, there is no time to wait.

Yet the cheerleaders are telling us how great this is.

Had we started where we SHOULD have - single payer - we'd be much further down the road already.

I'm sorry I can only rec this once.

The Congress moved quickly and decisively when it came down to bailing the banksters out when they shot gigantic smoking holes in their own feet.

Americans dying on fucking Main Street and they come out with this crap.

I was expecting it so I can't say I'm disappointed, just once I would like to have been wrong though.

they people who are drafting the bill have perfectly fine health coverage, and clearly they don't give a damn about the rest of us (except the insurance companies).

It seems like its people like yourself it may help as it prevents charging extra for pre-existing conditions and allows self-employed to buy in at group rates.
Is it a great bill - absolutely not - but is it better or worse for you then now?

You act like care is the constant and cost of premiums is the variable. Care will vary in direct proportion to the cost of premiums.

The cheaper the coverage the more care is limited. The government option pool will contain those who insurance companies do not want to cover. The high risk folks and the sick and dying.

Insurance cannot be denied. Out of pocket expenses, co-pays and deductibles, are capped. Pay-out percentages are mandated. The public plan is open to anyone who doesn't have insurance through their employer, because employers choose the company health insurance and it's going to stay that way.

They can charge any premium they want to people with pre-existing conditions.

sent here to bullshit those who are least educated about what is in these bills..I just don't know which it is.

Thanks ERIDANI for keep trying to educate others!

And it will be the death of the Democratic party.

No public option available to ALL - NO REFORM. That's the bottom line.

But not everyone has 3 years. And this is all if the bill passes in it's current form. I'm tired of getting jerked around. If my kid falls out of a tree tomorrow I'll be out another 10-15 grand.

The Democrats have delayed implementation until AFTER the 2012 elections.
Only a complete cheer-leading idiot would believe that it takes over 3 years to get this crappy little Public Option (less than 3%) up and running.


Our Democrats may be corrupt,
but they ain't stupid.

The Democrats have delayed implementation for over 3 years.
Over 40,000 Americans DIE every year for lack of insurance.
That is 120,000 American deaths.
Some people here are OK with that.

forgive them...

Walldude, I know where you're coming from. many of us don't have time or money. In this the Dems have screwed us over as much as the Republicans.

the figure of Americans dying is closer to 100,000 per year. Back when the candidates were running, the figure bandied about was 22,000. Now it's 40-44,000 (doubled in a year). But no one is putting names with those numbers - these are human beings who are dying. They are someone's mother, father, brother, sister ... they are REAL people. Talk about death panels ...

and while I'm not in debt, I'm a study in deferred maintenance.

I managed to care for the illness that disqualified me from getting for profit insurance. There has never been any room in my budget for preventive medicine beyond a couple of blood tests a year to make sure my kidneys aren't going to conk out again.

Likely I will get the watered down public option if they manage to get it up and running before I die of neglect.

And yes, this is the best those bought off fuckers can do. We need to pay really close attention to who is working hardest to destroy reform and work to defeat them in the primaries.

Doesn't that say it all?

Whooopeeee, the insurance companies deserve thanks.

:wtf:

:hi:

I don't mention Pelosi all that much.

It is a salvo, and should be treated as such.

They are going to try the business as usual approach of screwing everyone over and padding the pockets of the corporations. That is what they do because they are bought by the same corporations. That is the EXPECTED bill, and everyone here knows it.

The Democrats as a collective whole do not care about the American People...they, like the pukes, care about their power first, and for many, caring or pretending to care is an avenue to power and nothing more. By screwing us over, they feel they can keep power by continuing to be in the good graces of the corporations that paid their way....and we aren't gonna do anything because who else are you going to vote for?

This is the default Democratic position, and it will always be their opening position because they have suffered zero consequences from it before.

It is up to us to change their formula and FINALLY stop this ridiculous kabuki theatre where the Republicans abuse the Democrats and the Democrats abuse the American People....all for the sake of power.

:dem:

-Laelth

Nailed it.

I've been without heath care for going on 20 years. The kid was covered by Medicaid for a while and eventually, her father but she's on her own now and facing the possibility that she'll never qualify for coverage under the current system because she was born with Cerebral Palsy.

As for me, I expect that no matter how things go, I'll probably end up with no coverage, leaving me in the same boat I was in before. I also accept that I will likely die before I'm eligible for Medicare, much less Social Security benefits.

Nevertheless, if there's a chance that at least, my kid will be able to get some sort of coverage then she's better off than she would have been if there had been no attempt to re-vamp the American Health Care system.

The whole rest ot the world gets health care, and we get an insurance company bail out with a little health care too, if we go along with it.

It's criminal really when you think about it. The criminal insurance companies are going to agree to be a little less criminal if we bribe them with enough cash, now and forever.

But please at least see this for what it is. The attempt wasn't to revamp The health care system; No the attempt is to bailout the insurance system, and in return, they will stop the worst of their practices.

It's extortion is what it is. And that's why it pisses people off so bad. It's extortion clearly and openly meant to enrich the health care industrial complex. In return, they will sell people insurance even if they have a pre-existing condition, if the price is right.

It's such a scam.

The fact that there are many others in your same situation makes it even worse. :hug:

I can only assume that the cheerleaders have decent health coverage or have not had a severe enough health incident where their coverage is denied.

I was so sick with hypothyroid that the doctor could look at me and tell how sick I was. My husband and I both had pre-existing conditions and couldn't get health insurance, couldn't afford it if they'd offered it to us anyway.

My state has insurance subsidies for people, and a pool for people with pre-existing conditions. The pool is about 3 times higher than the regular coverage. Still, I have health coverage. I get an annual physical, even a mammogram. He finally got an MRI on his back which verified that he has a torn disc, instead of being told there was nothing causing his pain. I KNOW what this is going to mean to people. I lived it. No it's not perfect, I still have bills go to the collection agency. But I don't get turned away for health care. It makes a HUGE difference. That's why I cheerlead for ANYTHING that will allow every citizen to go to the doctor.

not included "mandates". So now I have to pay, what someone who has no idea what it's like to live like this, determines what is affordable and if they and I don't agree on what is affordable I get fined. Not exactly working in my favor when they decide that because of the pre-existing conditions and the size of my family that $1500 a month is affordable.

Congress is so out of touch with most Americans economics that they have no idea what is affordable. This is a Congress who thinks that $7.25 is a decent minimum wage. Perhaps if they had had to live on $10 an hour for a year, before writing this bill, the bill would have been better.

And I've said repeatedly that the subsidies and the premium affordability is what we need to be focusing on. I don't think they're creating a separate pool with separate premiums for pre-existing conditions, but if they are that is something else we need to look at. They could do that in a public option too. I've always thought we missed the boat by focusing solely on the public option. But it's still going to be a step forward because everybody will have to take a look at their health care situation now and deal with it, so that's a good thing. If people are confronted with $1500 a month, they'll start screaming for real change and you know how fast that can happen if Congress wants it to.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8721996&mesg_id=8721996

This bill was released today. It has 1990 pages. No one at this point has possibly had time to read and assimilate evrything in it. I have already been made aware of some really great things and some really crummy things.

All will be revealed in the next few days as people look it over. Honestly, it's better than what I expected. Research my posts. No one could call me a Pollyanna or a cheerleader. If anything I am a cynic. And yet, I almost feel like something good is about to happen. If we keep the pressure on.

Without the Kucinich Amendment (without the states being allowed to enact single-payer if the want it), the bill is worse than nothing.

:dem:

-Laelth

Instead of "Opening the door for Single Payer", the "Democrats" are making sure Single Payer will NEVER happen (at least in MY lifetime).

Elimination of the Kucinich Amendment PREVENTS Single Payer.

"President Obama told the committee chairman, George Miller, to oppose Kucinich's amendment, and he did so, leading off the voting with a resounding "No."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6880388

I hope (pun intended) more people are beginning to realize who is working for US, and who is working for BIG MONEY.

... the remains cremated and buried in a toxic waste dump, the Ghostbusters called out to vacuum up the stench of their corruption and their vile ectoplasmic residue.

If the health insurance industry should arise again we must limit them to small upgrades in medical service, things like custom tailored designer hospital gowns, extra channels on the hospital room television, fresh flower service, luxury chauffeured transport to and from the hospital or medical clinic, maybe even a "personal" concierge service to attend to a patient's every non-medical need. But WE MUST NOT ALLOW health insurance corporations to have anything at all to do with medical care itself.

To paraphrase a repub.. the US health insurance industry should be drowned in a bath tub.

No insurance since 2002, will turn 60 this year, am eligible for the Public Option and a nice subsidy.

I still OPPOSE this "Democratic Party" plan to transfer Mega-Billions of Public Dollars to the For Profit Health Insurance Industry.

The "Tiny Sliver" (Obama) Public Option is nothing but a handful of crumbs thrown to the peasants for diversion (a shiny object) while BILLIONS are given to the Corporate Masters.

Just look at those grateful for the crumbs in this thread.
We SHOULD be assembling with Torches & Pitchforks.
Can you begin to imagine the UPROAR if the Republicans tried to pass this bill?
The "Democrats" are going to do what the Republicans can only dream about.

But WATCH OUT !!!
Social Security "Reform" is next on the Hit List.

Premiums will be determined by Secretary of HHS and can't exceed 125% of the prevailing rate of standard insurance plans with comparable coverage i.e. the high-risk pool won't pay more than 125% what the standard low-risk pool artificially created by the health insurance industry does. I'd be surprised if this stopgap measure wasn't subsidized somewhat to provide lower premiums. Once you're in the high-risk pool you'd have the caps on payment, no co-pays on preventative medicine, no lifetime limits, and all the other insurance reform goodies that are enacted in the bill.

In short, you'll be far better off if the House bill is passed.

Or hadn't you noticed that "prevailing rates" are a total outrage to begin with?

Just providing the OP with information he might find helpful.

Of course that may turn out not to be the case, but given the compromises already made, I'm not hopeful.

and I'm very concerned about the mandate aspect, as another monthly expense doesn't seem possible. I am indeed concerned that this is health INSURANCE slight reform and not about true health CARE at all.

On the other hand, Dr. Dean supported it -- albeit acknowledging it could be much better -- last night. I do trust him, especially as he is not running for office.

Perhaps those in the know foresee positive shifts before it gets implemented, or shortly thereafter?

:shrug:

eom