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Why some women need a D&X, a.k.a. partial birth abortion.

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femmedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 10:02 AM
Original message
Why some women need a D&X, a.k.a. partial birth abortion.
About 5000 fetuses develop hydrocephalus each year in the U.S. This is not usually discovered until late in the second trimester. Some cases are not severe. After birth, shunts can be installed to relieve the excess fluid on the newborn's brain. A pre-natal method of removing the excess fluid is being experimentally evaluated. However, some cases are much more serious. "It is not unusual for the fetal head to be as large as 50 centimeters (nearly 20 inches) in diameter and may contain...close to two gallons of cerebrospinal fluid." In comparison, the average adult skull is about 7 to 8 inches in diameter. A fetus with severe hydrocephalus is alive, but as a newborn cannot live for long; it cannot achieve consciousness. The physician may elect to perform a D&X by draining off the fluid from the brain area, collapsing the fetal skull and withdrawing the dead fetus. Or, he might elect to perform a type of caesarian section. The former kills a fetus before birth; the latter allows the newborn to die after birth, on its own. A caesarian section is a major operation. It does expose the woman to a greatly increased chance of infection. It "poses its own dangers to a woman and any future pregnancies." Allowing a woman to continue in labor with a severely hydrocephalic fetus is not an option; an attempted vaginal delivery would kill her and the fetus.


http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_pba1.htm






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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yes but women don't matter. That's the message
We.Don't.Matter.



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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
12. Unfortunately, that is exactly the message.
:(

All because we tolerate religion intruding into public policy. x(
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Jim__ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
2. Is this the procedure which has been banned w/o regard to the ...
health of the pregnant woman?
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. This is the one...
:puke:
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femmedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Yes.
In today's Supreme Court ruling, there is no provision for instances when carrying the baby to term will endanger the life of the mother.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
4. Oh, no... Doctors just choose to do this procedure because
it is "easier" and "more convenient" for them...

:sarcasm:

I had an extended family member tell me that. I no longer interact with that family member over this and related idiocy. :mad:
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liberalnurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
6. They no longer use this so-called
partial birth technique. Briefly, let me tell you what I know.

Today, the process is a 2-day or 3-day technique. Initially, the woman's cervix is dilated with seaweed and given medications too, I think pitocin. Next, the fetus is injected with Lanoxin, a heart medication...which stops the pulse...This then causing the body to trigger spontaneous abortion of a dead fetus. After a day or 2, depending on the cervical dilatation quality, the fetus is removed vaginally in a spontaneous abortion fashion...like removing a stillborn.

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femmedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Thank you. I didn't know that. But what about when the fetus's head is too enlarged
for a vaginal removal?
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. see my post below...
basically, they either aspirate the fluid from the baby's head after giving it Lanoxin to stop the heart, thereby ending its life and making it possible to be expelled, or they surgically extract (C-section).
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liberalnurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. The fetus will no longer have a pulse....
Edited on Wed Apr-18-07 10:46 AM by liberalnurse
so, I'll reach out and guess they can drain it, reduce the fluid build-up. The fontanels/suture lines will deflate. I find that a rare, obscure occurrence that the head is too large. It is very pliable....no solid bone....A full dilatation of the cervix is more than "wide-enough"; Say for a 20-25 week fetus even with hydrocephalus.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. that is the procedure
that they used to my co workers wife...the delay was the problem with the insurance company that finally ok`d the procedure you wrote about.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. Not front line, but here are the current recommended alternatives:
Edited on Wed Apr-18-07 10:40 AM by hlthe2b
Including the one you describe... (from the AMA's official policy statement)

On edit, I mean to say that Dilation/Extraction is not front line, but still (rarely) performed, having given way to the following alternatives recommended by AMA and the OB-GYN
groups.

AMA Recommends Alternatives To So-Called 'Partial Birth' Abortions

The AMA recommends against intact dilation and extraction, unless alternative procedures pose a greater risk to the woman.

One alternative procedure is called "labor induction," in which a solution is injected into the amniotic fluid, ending the life of the fetus and inducing labor.

Other options include surgical removal of the fetus, and surgical removal of the uterus and fetus. The latter two methods are rarely used due to the significant medical risks they pose to the woman.


The AMA report goes on to say, "The physician must, however, retain the discretion" to decide what procedure is used. The AMA says in some rare cases, intact dilation and extraction is the safest method of late-term abortion.

The AMA report also recommends that "abortion not be performed in the third trimester except in cases of serious fetal anomalies incompatible with life."

This report, issued Saturday, comes at a time when the Congress is fighting over whether dilation and extraction abortions should remain legal, but a press officer for the AMA says there was no political motive in the timing of the report's release.

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1997/05/14/ama.abortion/
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
7. You don't have to convince me
But then, I'm not the one who's trying to legislate without a medical license.

Wow! Will we ever leave the Middle Ages?
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
8. women are just tools - something to be used
as incubators. If they die - big deal. There are lots more of them.

Women as "things". Less than human. Less than anything except an incubator.

Charming. Just charming. WHERE is the "morality" in this line of thinking? I'm sorry. I just don't see it.

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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
9. i worked with a guy whose wife
was carrying a dead baby for three weeks because no doctor would perform this procedure. working with him and watching him go through the agony was pretty hard to take. i cannot fathom how he felt..the medical community finally decided to "induce labor" because the baby was threating the life of his wife. politicians should stay the hell out of telling doctors what procedures are "legal" and the rights of women when it comes to their body.
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liberalnurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #9
16. The risk for infection....
sepsis of the mother is exceptionally high if the fetus is not expelled. The body will most often spontaneously abort as in a miscarriage for example.

I'm sorry to hear of your co-workers hardship.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. That's Just Horrible
As a woman, I can only imagine agony in the idea of being forced to carry a dead foetus for three weeks. How she got through that ...
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Morgana LaFey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. Barbaric
carrying a dead baby for three weeks because no doctor would perform this procedure

Just. simply. barbaric.
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SarahB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
17. There are many conditions not compatible with life.
A woman that undergoes 2nd and 3rd trimester terminations of pregnancies (which are generally wanted pregnancies for them to go so long) and have to make this horrible choice for either the sake of their health (continuing a pregnancy can kill a very small percentage of women) or for the fact that the have a fetus already dead or one that will die within minutes, hours, or days of birth. How dare the government make this any more painful for anyone.

This whole thing hits a bit close to home professionally, but I will not go into detail as I don't want to be targeted by loonies. I have a family myself. I will say that those who so adamantly make noise about the subject are the least educated about medical aspects.
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
19. Some women have disorders that make a caesarian particularly dangerous.
One is Von Willebrand disease, a bleeding disorder. I know it is rare in women, but can be life threatening if severe bleeding occurs. Obviously a woman with this condition would be at grave risk if she had to have a c-section.

http://www.hemophilia.ca/en/2.5.1.php
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