Debating with right-wingers who drank the kool-aid (poll)

You know, the ones who are buried so deep in their own talking points that they can't see the light of day? I keep going back and forth on this. What do you think?

I can tell when their douchebaggery is so entrenched that debate is futile, so I make fun of them.

no matter how hopeless it seems.

you never know what little piece of info might just blow someone's mind.

it DOES happen every once in a while.

like they have in evangelical churches. :-)

watching and learning from what we say. This website is mostly right wingers and I won't be able to change the heartlessness of the right winger, but I might change the heart of someone else who might be reading.

Besides, it sharpens my research and debate skills.

"sharpens their skills in spewing their misinformation" if you engage them in a debate. Best to just shake your head and let them know you not only do not agree, but you do not feel theey are worth a debate. Because they are not....and they do not hear a word you will say to them, they are just waiting for you to stop talking so they can have their turn to spew more of their garbage.

and believe that the debate that you do via web site is a whole different area....one where debate backed up with links and facts might well create a safer debate arena. The reader can and may check out the sites in private and may actaully begin to see the world differently due to the new exposure. Hope so, anyway.

It has about as much effect as debating a person of faith, of whatever religion. They will only become more steadfast in their belief system as it gets 'attacked' by an outsider.


You cannot change the mind of a person who doesn't recognize fact, but accepts the opinions of others as truth.

I told him that was the only thing that could possibly explain his ignorant political beliefs. Then I gave him a disgusted look, shook my head, and turned around and walked away.

He got the message. Loud and clear.

but did he change his mind?

You may change others in the room if not the one you are debating

1. It might change their minds (if they have one).

2. It might make them angry, upset, confused, which can lead to different outcomes:
A. They might change their minds later on.
B. They may become so discouraged they do not vote for a republican.
C. They may become so discouraged they do not vote at all.
D. They become so discouraged they might even vote for a democrat out of spite (as per Rash Limpball's suggestion).
E. They may get so angry they become even more radicalized, thus damaging and dividing the GOP.

3. Their heads might explode, thus saving more oxygen for the rest of us. :)

Arguing with fanatics elevates my blood pressure.

I tell them in no uncertain terms what they're wrong about just in case there are non Koolaid addled witnesses. Then I shut up and walk away.

Debating them is useless. These are cultists who simply ignore any facts they find contradict their silly positions. Only when the wall falls on them do they realize there was nothing holding it up.

Check out the gun threads and watch them defend the NRA. The NRA makes FOX news look like the middle of the road news people. They rate Sarah Palin the highest and Obama, Clintons and Gore the lowest they can. It is always fun to check out what the NRA says every election. Yet there seem to be members here that go way out of their way to defend the NRA. The cognitive dissonance is blinding.

Change a birther/teabaggers mind? Not hardly. They feel no obligation to the truth or facts or reality. The most meticulously constructed and triple-fact-checked contradiction of their nonsense is, in what passes for their minds, overcome by "That's not what Glenn Beck says, so it can't be true!"

No, the only purpose served in debating these high-decibel dim bulbs is to demonstrate to the larger community that you, a decent friend, neighbor, co-worker believe that they are not just wrong, they are offensively unpatriotic and self-centered; in a word: unAmerican. If you do this and I do this and all who feel passionately that what these people are about MUST not be allowed to become America do this, the minds of the uncommitted and casually-involved will begin to change.

And, teabaggers will join know-nothings, nativists and mugwumps in American political history.

You can change their minds a lot of the time, even some "true believers". I've done it many times.

In my experience...

1. You need to figure out what motivates them, what they care about, what their values are, and try to appeal to that.
2. You have to be very respectful. This is hard, but ridicule never makes anyone change their minds, it just makes them dig in further.
3. You need to basically take it sentence by sentence, and not leave any bad idea unchallenged.

And even if you aren't able to convince them, you probably convinced somebody who was watching. So, it's usually a good idea to debate them.

which is why I don't bother debating them, for any reason.

How many here have had their minds changed by RWers on anything...anything at all?

Maybe they think we're just as loony as we think they are. Because, you know, not every fact favors the Left.

For that matter, how many have had their minds changed by some of the DUers they've debated/argued with?

People often hold on to their opinions even in the face of irrefutable evidence to the contrary. Why bother? :shrug:

thing (a simple one) that can be easily (and simply) restated in a way that shows a conclusion opposite to the one spouted. If there are any remaining synapses firing, that could, if not elicit conversation, at least spark some actual inquiry on the part of the wingnut that could, maybe lead to an epiphany.

I know it's a long shot, but I've seen it happen.

It depends on what your intent is. If you just want to make them look like idiots, all you have to do is debate them with correct facts and in short order, they will be babbling idiots. But that is the easy road, like shooting fish in a barrel, like getting a zoo chimp to fling his poop.

If you want to get them to change their minds and become liberals, you need to get them to question some part of their belief system. Plant a question with them that does not have a standard talking points answer that they can regurgitate. Get them to actually engage in some logical thinking. It's not easy to do, for you have to find a chink in their logic-proof armor for which they do not have an emotional outburst prepared. Even then, they are capable of great leaps of illogic. Remember, they can take a statement like "scientists are not exactly sure when the Big Bang occurred" and follow it with "therefore, we know that Jesus Christ rose on the third day".

You can tell the ones who can be swayed. They are the ones that want to think out a problem, going from facts to conclusion. Then there are the ones who are hopeless and should just be made fun of. They are the ones who say Bush wasn't a conservative, the ones for whom "conservative" exists as an unattainable ideal, and can't relate conservative policy causes with its disastrous effects.

Rationality won't work--just try for a couple of cracks in their walls. To define guerilla ontology by example, suppose that there are two women in a mental hospital who both think that they are the Virgin Mary. Introduce them to each other, and one of them will get well.

of our time and resources. Reality will handle them all by itself.

I've also found it's useless to try to have a real debate on a messageboard, with people you have little common ground with. An honest and rational discussion is rare because there are no rules of conduct. Long, well-thought-out responses tend to be boring and people skim over them. There's usually so much misinformation being thrown around, that debating things point-by-point would be tedious, and get you nowhere.

So yes, certainly engage them and disagree, but use mockery and humor whenever possible.

and everything they believe in. I dog Reagan endlessly, I call them Confederates, I tell them that even Nixon would be ashamed of them, I hammer away at how utterly failed laissez faire/Reaganisim is, I compare them negatively to the Taliban, I remind them that conservatism has never enjoyed any golden age anywhere and isn't a suitable governing philosophy, and just generally go for ripping their puny black hearts out in any way that is soul crushing for them.

That way they hang themselves with their own words. Works every time.