I would never have a partial birth abortion so this doesn't affect me

It just would not happen to me. I'm past childbirth and even before that I was very careful. There is no way I would have an abortion let alone a late term abortion. Only idiots and sluts would.

How many of you think this or have let these thoughts cross your mind? Tell me you are gay or lesbian and it just does not affect you. Tell me that you are always careful and no way would this happen to you. You would never have a child so there is no way you wait until late term for an abortion. Tell me how you would never be in a position where you or someone you love will die unless they have an abortion.

The reality is that this affects each of us. Anyone who pretends otherwise is living in a land of unreality. Women were just given a sentence of death.

What affects humanity affects me. The ruling today scares me.

These folks who support this are insane.

I had a friend who would die if she carried her child to term. She wanted the child but she and the child would die if she didn't have a late term abortion. I listened to her discussing how she would never be able to go to the church of her birth if she decided to save her life. She chose life and went on to have another much wanted child. The thought of these idiots telling her she has to die infuriates me.

...that this procedure is one of convenience.

It doesn't matter if you are past childbirth. It doesn't matter if you were careful.

The only way it doesn't affect you is if you live in a cave and have no known family, friends or associates.

In my evil heart, I hope that the Cheney family and the Bush family both have to experience the pain of this decision personally.

Cheney and Bush are not in a position to have this affect them. One, a lot of reasons women have abortions are economic. That wouldn't be an issue. Two, if their daughters did want abortions, they could go to another country. Few laws actually affect the very wealthy. Laws are for and against...the poor.
Lee

personally. In fact, Cheney's spawn is currently preggers

Mr Cheney's had to moderate his antigay attitude since its been revealed his own is gay.

I said the reason this won't affect them is because they have the money to take care of the problem. They can take their daughters elsewhere if they need or want abortions. Also, since many abortions are economic based, that also won't be a problem for them if they want to keep any little Bushes or Cheneys.
Lee

to take over the U.S. Supreme Court. Nothing is what it seems but most didn't know until too late.

Concerned Women for America is crowing over the decision. www.cwfa.org/main.asp

Although they pretend to stand with the Catholics because of abortion & gay marriage, CFAW was founded by Beverly LaHaye. She met Tim "Left Behind" LaHaye at anti-Catholic Bob Jones University. Of course, LaHaye is anti-just-about-everyone.

More about the LaHayes: www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/5939999/reverend_doomsday/

Supreme Court and today the five votes for the ban are all the Roman Catholic members of the court. Just happened I guess.

You may want to watch (re-watch) the movie The Cardinal and its "let the mother die message" - in this case, his own sister if memory serves.

Wanted to add - men are over-represented on the S.C. I am over 60 and feel like Rosie does about gun control - been ranting all of my adult and I am numb and tired.

Jack Kennedy was a Catholic, John Kerry is as well.

It has to do with them being ass-hole conservatives.

I'm a lesbian and I've had an abortion. Lesbians are raped and incested too. No, mine didn't happen that horrible way but this most certainly is a lesbian issue too. I am now past child-bearing years but if it affects my sisters it affects me.
Lee

attack against gays or lesbians. That was not my intent. I was just thinking of ways that folks tell me that they could never get pregnant.

I wasn't insulted by you...not ever. I knew what you meant. My anger was at the Republithugs.
Lee

I see so much TMI here I guess I can tell the story of my pregnancy. I have been with the same woman for 15 years. She is WONDERFUL. Before her, however, I was with a very very abusive woman. Yes, lesbians have that issue too. One day I ran away from home for a few days. At the same time, my best best friend, a straight guy and his wife broke up. ...and he got fired and his childhood dog died. (I'm not kidding. I know it would make a good Country Western song but it's all true.) He and I got very very drunk and he was strumming the guitar and the drunker I got, the more he looked like Jackson Brown. The next thing you know...I'm pregnant...<g> Needless to say, that did not go over very well at all with my abusive lover. I had an abortion. We broke up. I got sober. I met my new and wonderful girlfriend.
End of story.
Lee

I'm so happy I didn't end up with some of the idiots I once thought were so attractive. :hug:

There was clear testimony that hardly anyone used the procedure and when it was used, it was during an emergency situation. However Congress in a Fristian maneuver, substitutes their judgment for that of a doctor and patient.

Nor should anyone in this country, that is where I have such a huge problem with the zealots of this world....

I had plenty of friends and relatives who got abortions, many of them back before Roe vs. Wade when it was very expensive and very risky, whether they went to Mexico or a motel somewhere. I was very supportive of their decision and was often the person they chose to accompany them. I can honestly say that not a one of them jumped into this as a lark. It was an agonizing decision for them. Every one of them told me before they went in for the procedure to please make sure that if they died that others would know their story. They knew that this was a life and death decision. A couple of them ended up in the emergency room because of a botched abortion. One never could have children again and she almost bled to death.

I also had friends who chose to complete an unexpected pregnancy. Only one chose to give her child up for adoption and she cried every year on his birthday. The others, who chose to raise their children, had to struggle as single mothers on women's wages that were substandared for raising a family, coping with child care problems and trying to earn enough for shelter and food.

Even once safe, therapeutic abortions were available, it still was an agonizing decision for these women, but at least they could do it safely and legally. Men just shouldn't have any say in something they are not equipped to endure like pregnancy, childbirth and breast feeding.

I think these Supreme Court judges should be impeached for letting religious and political views color their judgements. Those male judges shouldn't be making decisions on this anyway.

The banned procedure was rarely performed anyhow. The legislation was just a dog and pony show.

Yes, there are other procedures, but those procedures aren't as safe for the woman in most circumstances.

I posted above that a close friend had a planned pregnancy. She found out in the seventh month that her baby would not survive more than a few days past birth. Worse, she faced an 80 percent chance of dying if she continued the pregnancy. She chose life and was kicked out of her church. I'm still angry about it and even more angry knowing that other women have to die because of warped ideas of the zealots.

This is incrementalism, slowly chipping away at the boundaries laid by Roe.

takes its place. Cutting up the fetus in the womb and pulling it out, piece by piece.

Yes its rarely performed, because it's for medical purposes.

The legislation prevents women from getting the best medical procedure available. Far from a dog and pony show.

sometimes necessary by reading DU. Newspapers and tv journalism haven't covered the real reasons why late term abortions are sometimes needed.

I don't like the fact that her reproductive rights are being taken away. Everything that has happened in the past few years makes me fear for her future. Otherwise to be quite frank I don't think I'd care that much. I think I may just encourage her to move to another country when she's older.

My daughter went to bed about an hour ago and she kissed me good night. I watched her walking to her bedroom and I wondered what her future might be. She's 9 years old and she's told me before that she wants to be a mom one day, but I fear for her future. And I don't like it either that her rights are being taken away. I'm just ready to cry. I feel so sad inside. That her life isn't as important. It's a very sad day.

But tomorrow is another day. And it won't happen overnight, but we have to continue to fight and restore all of the rights that we have lost under this mis-administration.

Peace.

I forgot to do that. Now it's done...k&r.
Lee

When is it necessary to partially deliver the baby and suck out its brains when merely chopping the baby up inside the womb and sucking out the pieces will do? Are there any circumstances where the second option is not a viable alternative?

I have heard of it being done when the fetus has very severe hydrocephalus (not sure I spelled this right, it is fluid in the brain). If it is so severe that it is fatal the fetus may be delivered in this type of procedure rather than forcing a woman to undergo a c-section when there is no possibility she will end up with a living baby, because the head is too large to be delivered naturally. If it seems grotesque so is cutting open a woman against her will to deliver a severely brain damaged fetus that will die within hours, and leave the woman with the risk of more health complications both immediately and in a future pregnancy should she decide to try again.

Or are you just trying to show that there's no good option when pregnancies go awry.

Is that it's usually required where both fetal health *and* certain maternal health issues contraindicate the more often used method of D&E (Dilation and Evacuation - dismemberment of fetus, removal by forceps) for second trimester abortions. Usually, maternal health issues like blood clotting disorders, a brittle diabetic, severe pre-eclampsia, or HELLP syndrome require an abortion method that involves the least medical trauma to the woman's body as is possible. The aim is to save the woman's life and/or health first, and to also preserve her future childbearing ability. I think it goes without saying that this procedure is very rare indeed. Only about 400-500 are performed in the US during any given year.

For example, to a woman with a bleeding disorder, the risk of uterine perforation and subsequent hemorrhage during a D&E is far riskier than an ID&X (Intact Dilation & Extraction), where the natural birthing process is somewhat mimicked and the risk of perforation is minimized. By reducing the perforation risk, not only is there a better chance of reducing the risk of hemorrhaging, but there is also a better chance of reducing the risk of hysterectomy or uterine damage from a D&E and thereby preserving the woman's future childbearing ability.

Also, there are some psychological advantages with the ID&X. This procedure allows the physician to present the mourning parents with an essentially intact body for viewing and remembering. The physical healing from an ID&X is far easier on the woman's health than recovering from a hysterotomy (C-section style abortion) or an emergency hysterectomy from bleeding. But generally, the abortion method the doctor chooses is dependent upon which will provide the least necessary medical trama and risk assumption to the woman's body...

...which is one of the things that really chaps my ass when preachers and pundits and politicians bloviate away about abortion without ever having any clue about what it's really like themselves.

It chaps my ass sufficiently that what was originally supposed to be a comment stressing the personal connection to the topic turned into an essay so long I just posted it as its own post instead:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x694683

POeople who have never had to wrestle with the terrible no-win choices involved in dealing with abortion on a one-to-one level really need to just STFU about it.

make medical decisions for each and every one of us instead of a trained medical doctor in consultation with his or her patient.

Regardless of anyone's position on the matter related to Intact Dilation and Extraction as a medical procedure, it should concern everyone that non-medically trained lawmakers will determine what procedures you can and cannot have when it comes to your health and body and something that should be between you and your doctor.