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I propose a moratorium on talking about ED drugs and abortions as if they are related.

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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 10:17 AM
Original message
I propose a moratorium on talking about ED drugs and abortions as if they are related.
Folks, it is a stupid comparison. A false equivalency. A meaningless canard. A bullshit metaphor. A red herring.

What else can I say? One has nothing to do with the other.

Unless you are into the "I'm a gender warrior" thing and you just want to bloody someone's nose and score points.

I couldn't possibly be more pro-choice rights than I am, but it doesn't help the cause at all to compare such an important issue with such an UNIMPORTANT issue.

It just belittles the issue.

The abortion issue has nothing to do with sex. It has nothing to do with abortion even. It has to do with a woman's right to decide what to do with her life and her body.

Hardly on par with ED now, is it?
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golddigger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
1. Kicked, because I accidently clicked the unrec. Sorry.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
2. Hmm...there's no relationship between
the erect penis and pregnancy? You don't think there's a cause and effect thing going on there?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6979440
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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
3. It's actually a very slippery slope to compare ED drugs with abortion

Someone is liable to think, "Wait, ED drugs make it possible to enjoy a sex life. Does that mean that in order to enjoy sex, you also need to have abortions?"

And inany case, yes, it's a stupid as hell comparison and I don't even know where it came from.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Both deal with gender specific health issues. Men's health issues have ALWAYS received
Edited on Tue Nov-10-09 10:27 AM by KittyWampus
more attention, more funding and more acceptance.

Women's health issues receive less.

Whether it's abortion, pregnancy, heart attacks or menopause.

It's the not just Fundies holding up the works for women. It's society and our overarching philosophy.

From a Scientific viewpoint that menopause is an illness, to researchers who thought only men should be studied for treating heart attacks to a society that exults machismo and a power structure that wants to keep men in charge.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Demonstrably untrue. See: breast cancer vs. prostrate cancer. nt
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. do you wear a DD cup and have you ever had to have a mammogram?
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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Ever had a prostate exam? Doesn't even matter how big your nuts are. nt
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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #6
20. Many would argue ED drugs and abortion are generally about health preferences, not issues
You don't have to have a boner. In most cases, you don't have to have an abortion (yes, yes, rape, incest, health of mother: noted).

Viewed from that perspective, the two are actually fairly comparable.
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #6
24. +1
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
4. if the discussion is broadened to highlight discrepancies between men and women's health and laws
dealing with those issues it is relevant, IMO.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
5. It's just a little ironic.
No one questions the right of a man to take a pill to assert control over his reproductive aperatus. Yet something far more onerous like "pro-life" measures are assumed be morally justified.

This IS about people's puritanical attitudes toward female sexuality and the unspoken assumption that a woman's proper place is to submit to the men in her life including the masculine god. An abortion subverts this male dominence and her "natural" role as a life giver. So while it is absolutely about a woman's right to self determination, it is also about backward notions of sexuality.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. More than just a little ironic, actually...
The ED drugs, aside from their use in men who can no longer attain an erection without assistance, are also used recreationally by the very group responsible for many unplanned pregnancies. Even college-age men are taking them these days.

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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #12
23. Old impotent guys are the cause of many unplanned pregnancies? Who knew!
Those old goats!
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. They weren't always old, and they aren't always
having sex with their wives, either. Go to Vegas and take note of all the old geezers with their "nieces" there. Besides, recreational use of ED medications is a common thing, even among young guys.

The bottom line is that every abortion involved an erect penis at some point. There is a relationship between the two.
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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #5
22. Did someone magically declare abortion illegal? nt
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #22
29. Did the forced birther brigade win a major victory on Saturday?
Yes, they did. Any legislation they can get passed that restricts access to abortion brings them one step closer to their ultimate goal of a complete ban on abortion and contraception.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #22
32. Um, no. And even if someone did, I doubt it would occur magically.
:shrug:
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #5
25. +1. Thank you!
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
7. Edit. Misunderstood OP.
Edited on Tue Nov-10-09 10:25 AM by Romulox
:blush:
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
8. you have a point, pregnancy usually affects the next 20 years of your life, if not all of it,
the ED might affect your ability to be happy for a few minutes every now and then.

The root of the discussion and accompanying dispute is that women's medical needs are too often NOT covered and the costs are a drain on people who, as a rule, are already making less income than the gents who are more likely to get their fun subsidized. Some of us (gents included) are getting fucking tired of that disparity in care.

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mnhtnbb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
9. First ever unrec I've given. The issue is health care. Some men
wish to have control of their bodies which includes ability to engage in sexual activity
that requires an erect penis. Some women wish to have control of their bodies which
may not include allowing a pregnancy to go to term. It's all about the individual wish
to make extremely personal decisions regarding physical and mental health.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. It belittles the importance of abortion, reducing it to an issue of sexuality.
Also, as a tactic, it is a mistake.
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #11
19. Hey, if you're a male with ED, it's pretty gd important to you.
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #9
17. Thank you for getting it.
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #9
18. And when did not having an erection possibly cause a death? Not having access to contraceptives and
abortions does kill women.
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peace13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
14. I suggest talking contraception when talking abortion.
If this bill does not fund abortion or contraception we are in big trouble.
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
15. Good, I made my point.
How does it feel to have men's health issues discussed, debated and dissected as if you don't matter? As if you don't exist?

My aim wasn't to draw a direct correlation between the two, but they are obviously related. T

My aim was to find an issue about which men feel as deeply personal about as we do our reproductive freedom. To have the private and person turned publicly legal without a thought to the people involved.

I wanted at least some men to feel the same humiliation that we women feel when our private medical issues are up for legal sanction.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. In that case, I must say well done.
So in that regards, your point IS a very good comparison.

But on the whole, I think it is just too petty of an issue to hold against the issue of choice.
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #21
30. Your description of it as "petty"
seems to belie the little importance you want to place on it.

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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. I don't understand your point there.
What belies what now?
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luvspeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
26. I think that stuff that makes your eyelashes longer should be covered by insurance...
I don't need viagra.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Now THAT is a better comparison.
Batting eyelashes and erections have a relationship as well, but I wouldn't discuss them in the same conversation either necessarily.
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