Catholic Bishops: Pro-Abortion Senate Health Care Bill "Worst We've Seen Yet"

Guess who is not satisfied with the Senate Health care bill. The Catholic Bishops group is calling it not just a bad bill but one of the worst they have seen.

Catholic Bishops: Pro-Abortion Senate Health Care Bill "Worst We've Seen Yet"

Guess they will be stepping in to make it better, just like did when they aided in getting the Stupak amendment passed at the last minute.



That would be the same Catholic Bishops who were given credit by both parties for getting the Stupak amendment passed.



When the bishops were displeased with the House Bill, they got with our Democratic leaders and got backing for the Stupak Pitts amendment.

The AP article today makes it sound like the White House is none too happy, but they surely do have a fight on their hands.

WH differs with bishops over health care plan



Meanwhile women are paying the price as their rights are used to bargain over health care reform.

From a doctor:



There will apparently be a battle over the Senate bill to limit the rights of women to have their health and well-being considered.

Without the Bishops, Criminal Sex Deviants and Sodomizing Rapists like Father Feeney and Father Geogan, would have been in jail decades earlier.

He was in charge of writing a letter to the churches to not give information to the police.

:rofl:

far beyond me to comprehend. You have to be brain dead...

...and the Bishops last. Obviously I'm not holding my breath.

...when you can get pregnant.

It's all about power.

mitres.

Blow me, eunuchs!

They can impose ALL the anti-abortion, anti-gay, anti-birth control and anti-stem-cell laws they want there.

In the meantime, America is a secular nation. High Priests don't get to make law.

I'm really beginning to get tired of the Catholic Pedophile Society and their Right-Wing Theocracy cheering section!!!

I feel it's about time that every religious organization in this country gets another look to see if they still meet the requirements to keep their tax exempt status.

Look at the C Streeters, the are now only 30% tax exempt, after the D.C. Tax Office re-evaluated their status.

Maybe the same needs to be done for all of them.

Let's see if both "organizations" have been following the rules and regulations.

The bill does not promote abortion. Don't bishops have a duty to submit to governmental authority like the Senate?

Romans 13:1-7 (NIV)

1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

And isn't seperation of church and state part of the Gospels?

Matthew 22:21 NIV

Then he said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."

More importantly, it is part of a democracy. And this isn't about abortion, or not merely about abortion. Part of the survival plan for any organized religion is to make sure people think all that is good in the world comes from them/god. They want to be in the position of being America's safety net even if they fail miserably at it. They want people to be dependent on them and not realize that they can get better care from the government/themselves.

what the bible says should not even come under consideration. We are established as a secular government, and that is the level our arguments should operate at.

Having said that; I am in full agreement with your scriptural exegesis. :)

...especially with governmental authority.

it's time to play hard ball with these nuts.

Stupid old men.

I'm tired of hearing about morality from a bunch of child-raping cover-up artists led by a former Hitler Youth.

my religion is not theirs so they have no business telling me how to live.

They are stepping into civil matters and that has nothing to do with church. Church is for souls and mine is just fine without them.

these anti-women groups know that abortion is a part of womens health care.

Now someone needs to tell them that they are abusing their tax exempt status and either they need to remedy the situation or the IRS will.

Fuck you bishops.

Fuck you pope nazi.

the house and the senate. I will say, though, you've managed to get your tentacles in there to a large extent.

Why don't y'all go back to your church and leave government alone? Or maybe you'd prefer your tax-exempt status be stripped away?

politics or pay some fucking taxes like the rest of us. rec'd

Hmmm, this is not a religious group - it's a hate group.

speak for all Catholics. These guys are happy to indulge in hyperbole (that's pronounced "hyperbowl" if you're John Boehner) and stereotyping... I'd suggest we don't do the same.

I grew up in Irish Catholic Boston and I know that at least 5 out of 10 Catholics were genuinely good people who weren't narrow-minded bigots. All too many were simple-minded, but I will take a Catholic over some of the fundy protestant sects - too many of them are truly hateful people.

people among US Catholics - just like in any other group. There's a strong strain of social justice that seems to be often squelched in the last 20 years or so by TPTB in Rome and their lackeys here. But it's still there, and there are still people committed to living their faith instead of proclaiming restrictions on other people's lives and feeling superior about it.

they are supporting a male-supremacist church and it's teachings . . .

which include the inferiority of females!!

And inferiority of homosexuals!!

And which are the very opposite of democracy and equality for all --

of female inferiority --

Catholics, themselves, may feel differently -- but nonetheless, their $$$ are supporting

and giving verification to this church and its teachings!

but the bishops are. They have been brainwashed in a system that to this day both fears and hates women.

They do not speak for Catholics in general despite their claims otherwise.

the church DESPITE its teachings in many cases.

No incentive, therefore, for the Bishops to change!

From the Colorado Independent:

Catholics, evangelicals pledge to ignore gay rights and abortion laws



More:



The real battle starts now. We cave or we fight.

...trying to screw us. Oh, yes... it may not be a corporation on paper, but the Catholic Church has been peddling morality for centuries. "Join our Church or go to Hell for ALL ETERNITY! (And don't forget to give us 10% of your income.)

Just another moneymaking machine feeding itself off of us, like the health insurance and oil companies. Influencing the government so that we have to pay even more for our own screwing. Is it any wonder people are so angry all the time?

Strange and infuriating how they influence government.

:hi:

We should sell insurance to the rich. We could push it as insurance to prevent them from having to obey liberal laws when they are passed. Then we make the criteria for what constitutes a liberal law so vague that we never have to pay out.

Let them see what it feels like when this kind of bullshit is pushed on them.

It they don't want them, they shouldn't get them. Although I'm starting to re-think that position. Maybe mandatory abortions for Catholics is the way to go.

In the meantime, they should learn how to stay out of other people's lives.

not just those of their church.

The Catholics in my family are not that way at all, they are live and let live on all these wedge issues. They also disapprove of the church doing this.

they are not only trying to influence their own members, they are using influence

outside of the church to influence laws which effect us all.

Birth control wasn't banned for only Catholics -- it was banned for everyone!

Even married couples!!

Until the late 1960's!!!

I don't really give a damn what the Catholic Bishops think of the health bill. Also, when they can get pregnant I will maybe listen to what they have to say about abortion. Hell, when they have sex with somebody other than little boys (or little girls for that matter) I will maybe listen to what they have to say about sex and abortion.

And they are surely pushing themselves into the health care debate. I did not realize what a hard time they were giving Patrick Kennedy.

At Baltimore forum, organizations that buck hierarchy are called 'less than fully Catholic'



George wants to decide how women get health care, so I declare him in denial about their intentions. They are insisting on a particular means of delivering health care. Their way.

Speechless.

Pope John Paul II was a stealth candidate that was determined to destroy the progressive movement in the Catholic Church that had been ushered in by Pope John XXIII against the objections of the conservative Vatican Cu rial bishops. He was a back-slapping opportunist during Vatican II while conspiring with the most rigid traditionalists to return the church to its pre-Vatican state of intransigent opposition to any liberalization.

He secretly contributed the majority of what was to become Humanae Vitae which reaffirmed the Church's condemnation of contraception. He conspired to suppress the results of the commission appointed by Pope John XXIII that after years of extensive study recommended that the church approve of contraception.

The most significant thing that he did was to sanction Opus Dei, a radical secret cult of extreme traditionalists. It is the same cult to which Robert Hanssen, perhaps the most notorious spy in the history of the country, belonged to and is now serving a life sentence for his betrayal of the country and the death of secret informants. Previous popes including Pius XII and John XXIII had refused to recognize this cult which had fascist ties with the Franco administration. However, Pope John Paul II who had close ties and was most probably a secret member established it a society that reported directly to the pope and which local bishops had no authority over. Many bishops at the time objected however this was soon rectified by imposing a mandatory retirement age. During his reign John Paul II replaced every bishop with extreme traditionalists who supported the Church's return to the Dark Ages. It is not surprising that Bishop Caput is leading a opponent. His auxiliary bishop in Denver, who was latter promoted to led another diocese, is a self proclaim member of Opus Dei. The primary goal of Opus Dei is to infiltrate and gain control of major corporations and positions in government in order to impose their Christian values on society. They have done a remarkable job of doing so dominating the hierarchy of the Catholic Church and allied with the Evangelical and fundamentalist they cannot help to be encouraged that they have been able to mount significant opposition to the abortion in the health bill. Their next target will be contraception and sterilization in which they have made significant progress with their acquisition of numerous hospitals that are now refusing to provide these services.

Good luck Americans. While you slept, their zealots never rested in advancing their goals of complete domination of society.

and I think before many realized it was happening. Southern Baptists were never known for being very open-minded about things, but it reached a point of being drastic a decade or so ago. The head of the Seminary is anti birth control, thinks it is a sin to plan to not have children. Thinks women are to stay in the home, not work. Thinks they should submit to their husbands as head of household.

I looked up that Bishop you mentioned, was not familiar. Found this.

http://firedoglake.com/2009/11/21/whos-who-and-whats-up-with-the-manhattan-declaration/

"I’ve been looking at the list of signers on the conservative “Manhattan Declaration” that was released yesterday.

One group of signers are the leading culture warriors and theological purists in the Roman Catholic church. Cardinal Rigali of Philadelphia was joined by conservative archbishops like Chaput (Denver), Dolan (NY), Kurtz (Louisville), Naumann (KC Kansas), and Wuerl (DC), and bishops like Malone (Portland ME), Olmsted (Phoenix), Sheridan (Colorado Springs), and Cordileone (Oakland). Many of these were part of the efforts in Maine to overturn same-sex marriage, and are pushing against the DC city council over the same issue.

But notice who *isn’t* on that list. Other than Rigali, no active cardinals signed on (no Mahony in LA, George in Chicago, or O’Malley in Boston), nor any of the retired ones. This isn’t a broad representation of the leadership of the USCCB, but a narrow slice of it — those concerned with theological purity, both inside and outside the church.

Another group that’s easy to spot are the evangelicals: James Dobson and Jim Daly from Focus on the Family, Chuck Colson, Jonathan Falwell, Richard Land, Russell Moore (Dean of Southwestern Baptist Seminary in Louisville), Tony Perkins, and various others. They’ve been fighting their purity battles as well, not only in political circles but also the in-house battles within their groups and denominations."

I would have.

Good summary!

Pope John XXIII must be rolling over in his grave.

Talk about a false and violent vision for the church as of JPII.

Accompanied, of course, by a false and violent god created in the Roman image.

Pope John XXIII modernized the church, made it a democracy --
acknowledged members' right to their own personal conscience, free will -
told them to decide for themselves on whether or not to use birth control.

And many other things which made the church a democracy --

PLUS he kicked Papal infallibility in the ass --

What we've seen since is a right wing coup on the church --
and evidently it's going to go all the way to the Vatican going EVANGELICAL!

Moving into Africa/China --

Firstly I apologies for the length of this post. But,I assure you that it only touches the tip of the problem.

When a reporter asked Pope John XXIII are you infallible, he answered, laughing, infallible?, infallible?, I'm John.
Is is a shame that so many people are not aware of just how human he was and how well liked it was. For example, the previous pope, the austere Pius XII who was so full of himself ordered that the gates which blocked any outside view of the Vatican gardens be closed when he went for his daily walk and that none of the gardeners were to be working in the garden. When John was elected they asked him if he wanted the gates closed and the attendants out of the garden. He answered, no leave them open and I promise I won't do anything to embarrass the Church.

He would stop and talk to the all the gardeners and others Vatican employees and soon knew their wifes and children's names. When he inquired about how they were doing financially and what the made, he ordered that the pay of all those employed at the Vatican to be reviewed and order substantial raises. He made it a point to get to know as many as possible who were employed at the Vatican and joked with the Swiss Guards. He was a true humanitarian and was instrumental in saving thousands of Jews when he was station as an papal envoy in the Near East for nineteen years that included the time during WWII. He had been exiled to the Near East by Pius XII when he was accused of embracing modernism by the Curia.

Too bad that a so many of today's young Catholics are unfamiliar with his life. In addition to forming the Birth Control Commission, which the future Pope John Paul II boycotted, there are strong indications that he was going to do away with the requirement of celibacy and he made it far easier for priests to leave the active priesthood. When John Paul II was made pope he immediately made it nearly impossible for priests to be laitized forcing them to break their vows if they wanted to leave. If people want to grasp how progressive he was then they need to only read his address that he gave when he opened Vatican II, "In subtle but in unmistakable language he disassociated himself from the Curia's narrow, defensive view of the council and urged the bishops instead to undertake a great renewal or updating of the Church." Thomas Bokenkotter, A Concise History of the Catholic Church, p. 413. As a result the bishops broke the stranglehold the Vatican Curia had on the commissions and the papers the next day announced, "Bishops in Revolt!" This was a revolt that he fully encouraged as the council proceeded to strike out to reform the Church.

John Paul II and his cadre of Opus Dei fanatics have done everything within their power to destoy the reforms of Vatican II. In fact they are so opposed to the reforms that they have succeeded in making John XXIII practically disappear. While they flocked to declare John Paul II a saint, they have done everything in their power to wipe the history John XXIII from the laity's memory. For those who knew and put so much hope in the revitalization of the Church that had been inaugurated by John XXIII, the papacies of Paul VI and especially John Paul II have been a bitter disappointment.

So when you condemn Catholics for their Dark Age mentality just remember that there were millions of Catholics who abruptly abandoned the Church. When they saw these people's betrayal of the message of hope strangled in the cradle by these narrow minded bigots who regained control of the Church the simply slipped away into the night. Many left bitter and angry over this blatant disregard for the sane policies never to return.

Interesting stories about Pope John XXIII . . . he was a peacemaker --
and tried to bring the church into a saner sphere.

The right wing coup on Vatican coup proves once more that the only way the right
can rise to power anywhere is thru propaganda/lies and aggression and violence --
and violence is very much suspected in the fall of a number of Popes after John XXIII.

HOWEVER . . . re this --

So when you condemn Catholics for their Dark Age mentality just remember that there were millions of Catholics who abruptly abandoned the Church. When they saw these people's betrayal of the message of hope strangled in the cradle by these narrow minded bigots who regained control of the Church the simply slipped away into the night. Many left bitter and angry over this blatant disregard for the sane policies never to return.

I do not "condemn" Catholics . . .
I blame the Vatican and its hierarchy for the problems with the church --
beginning with its male-supremacist policies, among others.

I do question, however, how Catholics can continue to support a church of, by and for males?
How they can send their sons and daughters into this dictatorship?
Or give them money which they use to influence American government -- from their campaign
against the ERA to Prop 8 and now the most recent effort in Maine?

Catholics have to do what John XXII told them to do -- use their own free thought and personal
conscience -- and free will -- to decide for themselves!!!

Recovering Catholic here -- !!

Anything to piss off the stupid Catholics. And I am a Catholic!

the ignorant notion that all pregnancies are good ones is just stupid, which they are not.

Also, rape happens!!

USCCB: We're on to your diversionary tactics
to distract everyone from the pedophile crimes against humanity committed prior to and since the Reformation. And we are also scrutinizing your moves in terms of dismantling Roe v Wade with your magic wands. In fact you will not pull the rug out from anyone regarding Roe v Wade. Not going to happen. In this case, and in working toward that end you really don't give a rip about the lives and well being of those under insured and not insured. Thousands have died as a result of not being properly insured and your attitude is "Tough"!

You will not win in your battle here to continually intrude in the lives of Catholics and others who, in accordance with their own----consciences----- and not your dictates, will live their lives accordingly.

You will not yet again control the lives and reproductive aspects of women's lives. No, dear bishops, women are clearly not having dozens of kids these days though one can only imagine the salivation on your part for a Catholic version of the fundamentalist quiverfull movement.

You have no power nor control over anyone. And your desperate attempts here only exhibit to us and the rest of the world that you are in the last throes of a dying institution, all because of a man-made top down theological system that, when all has been said and done, even in the name of threats and slaughter, has not worked.

Pathetic and sickening. May God have mercy on your souls, if there is one.

Strip their tax-exempt status of the Catholic Church.

It is long overdue.

Hawkeye-X

I believe that countries like Austria and France and some other "Catholic" countries in Europe permit abortions. Why does Catholic fanaticism target the U.S. After all, Catholics are just one of many religions in the U.S.

The Europeans are well acquainted with the policies of John Paul II have for all practical purposes have abandon the church.

Money which they may have used to settle their pedophile lawsuits?

Evidently there is an investigation ongoing now on that subject!

I have also wondered just how the hell Bush was able to give tax-payer's money to the churches.

And Obama is continuing this subsidy of churches!!

There was no bailout rider language to reimburse them for all the $100's of millions paid out in pedophilia settlements. Yes, abolutely the worst bill they've ever seen.

since they act more like a corporation than a religion, and they have the money to prove it.

This is between a woman and a doctor in a white lab coat.

While you are kicking out the Black robes from women's wombs be sure to take away their tax exempt status..because they are certainly using their pulpits to dictate governmental policies.
It is the law ......uphold it!!!!!!