“Scientists: You Can’t Profile School Shooters”

No one can see the patterns at all... except hundreds of people here on DU who researched the hell out of this and found the pattern of bullies!

Honestly. What nonsense that article is. And I see there is no degree noted behind the writer's name... no PhD... no MSW... nothing, nada... yet this is an expert. Please.

You're upset that the journalist isn't also a Ph.D?

Some kids are vulnerable to psychosis because of their DNA. Bullying would certainly make them more vulnerable but in itself it doesn't account for going on a shooting spree. (I said, as a peer counselor and not as a pro so take it fwiw. :silly:)

I can't believe I have to explain this... jeez...

in the fall. So much personal experience, might as well put it to work. :hi:

There is mental illness involved, of course! And who in their right mind would willingly kill another human being in the first place?

What I said is, there is a pattern... DU is full of these discussions today... pick a thread, any thread, and you will find some very good intelligence on the matter.

Not all avocados are haas... but all haas are avocados. Not all mentally ill (or bullied) become shooters. But there is overwhelming evidence showing that the combination of mental illness and being bullied CAN lead to becoming a shooter.

Despite these high profile cases, there simply is no research study to show definitively that bullying is the sole, most important cause of homicide.

I'm saying its part of a pattern.

After extensive research all day long looking at "shooters" like Cho, I've yet to find ONE who was not bullied.

In order to do a study, there must be funds. Lately, I've only seen studies paid for by some company who wanted a certain result... and got it. Money talks.

funders are looking for.

I have a hard time believing Glaxo Kline Smith (aka, Big Pharma) wants the outcome: "As a culture, the United States depends too much on instant fixes, like DRUGS, and too little on communication-enhancing, community building efforts. :eyes:

They will never support medical marijuana either!

I think we should consider studies by such groups as "bizarro" intelligence... and do the opposite!

The pattern you speak is not shown as yet to begin or end with bullying. As to the claim that only companies fund research for specific results, that's silly. Experimental and longitudinal research performed by a variety of 'psychologicals' funded through universities has been doing research for decades.

Bullying exacerbates a problem, it doesn't cause it! On the funding of studies... Good God! You need only look at study results and the funding of same to realize how silly that statement is. What does "funded through universities" mean precisely? Universities do not fund studies. They are given funds to do studies and the company or organization who pays for them is allowed to cherry pick the results. This is nothing new! It's been going on forever! Check out the smoking studies funded by tobacco companies!

Notice what it says in the OP: "mentally disturvbed."

I've hqd mental health professionals tell me he sounds like he had a personality disorder, not a mental illness.

disorder?

One is an illness and one is a personality disorder.

Both are forms of mental illness. Maybe we're talking about severity here.

A mental illness is an illness of the mind -- literally. Just liek we have illness of teh body.

I was told to use this definition for personality disorders:

he DSM-IV (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of the American Psychiatric Association, Fourth Edition), defines a personality disorder as an enduring pattern of inner experience and behavior that differs markedly from the expectations of the individual's culture, is pervasive and inflexible, has an onset in adolescence or early adulthood, is stable over time, and leads to distress or impairment. Personality disorders are a long-standing and maladaptive pattern of perceiving and responding to other people and to stressful circumstances.

Ten personality disorders, grouped into 3 clusters, are defined in the DSM-IV:

* Cluster A -- Odd or eccentric behavior.
Includes:
o Paranoid personality disorder
o Schizoid personality disorder
* Cluster B -- Dramatic, emotional or erratic behavior.
Includes:
o Antisocial personality disorder
o Borderline personality disorder
o Histrionic personality disorder
o Narcissistic personality disorder
* Cluster C -- Anxious fearful behavior.
Includes:
o Avoidant personality disorder
o Dependent personality disorder
o Obsessive-compulsive personality disorder

excellent tech to treat, not mental illness?

I don't need it cleared up, and I don't mean that snarky. ASs I said, I just double checked with a mental health professional to make sure I was using the terms correctly. I was informed I was.

Not at all. :)

He had been under the care of mental professionals, and was advised to seek outpatient help. There is a history, no question.

I know people who had friends and family killed Monday. Just because you've seen mental health pros doesn't mean you have a mental illness. Bundy talked to psychiatrists, and he wasn't mentally ill.

Sociopathy, BPD, etc. are personality disorders.

You'll see...

Have you ever read the definition of a personality disorder?

Sorry for your loss.

disorder" as a way to cut vets off from benefits.

I wonder if that is how personality disorder is getting down graded to . . . something else?

Wild.

A soldier?

to trump empirical evidence :patriot:

There are several. High pressure home life, alienation, bullying....

You can profile, but you can't predict.

Good God I'm so fucking sick and tired of people putting words in the mouths of others!

The point is, there are a lot of these factors we can stop!!! No one should be allowed to bully another in our schools. The bullies need far more mental health assistance than the bullied!!!

Chipping away at the individual factors is the way to go, imho. All the factors are heinous and should be looked into. No human being should be treated that way. And to stand back and make excuses like so many here are doing is just absurd.

I'm sorry, jody. Long week. :hug:

/oops

you can bet your sweet bippy there would be a profile.

Spot on!

:rofl:

I've said before that I think society failed Cho, but that doesn't mean I think we need a new program to find the next Cho.

What we need is

a. A society with more equitable distribution of income and decent-paying jobs for everyone who needs to work, so that working parents will hae the time and ability to pay more attention to their kids.

b. A society with more equitable distribution of income and decent-paying jobs for everyone who needs to work, so that resentments felt by kids like Cho against "rich kids" who, in all honesty, often do lord their status over less fortunate kids won't be so extreme.

c. A society with more equitable distribution of income and decent-paying jobs for everyone who needs to work, where people in EVERY job are respected equally, from engineer to plumber to custodian.

d. An educational system that finds ways to bring us all together and fosters community ties, fights against anomie that characterizes our society today, so that other students might have wanted to ask Cho how he felt and listened - IE make everyone, even those not good at sports or social skills, feel INCLUDED

e. Some way to overcome the socio-economic tribalism of our society. Rich whites mostly associate with other rich whites, people stick to their own race, religion, etc. There has got to be a way to bring people together so we can all understand each other better.



Just as an example, here in Japan, each neighborhood has a neighborhood association, which you belong to automatically if you live in the neighborhood, and once a month on a weekend morning, EVERYONE in the neighborhood gets together to clean up the neighborhood for an hour or so. (Or you have to pay a small fine). It's kind of a pain, but once you get out and start doing it, it's a nice way of getting to know the neighbors.



I don't think this is a failure of police or criminal justice. It's a failure of our communities to actually be communities.

We have a winner!

:)