Toxic parents

For anybody interested in some of the root causes of mental illness, I highly recommend you read a book entitled Toxic Parents, by Dr. Susan Forward. In fact, if I had my way, it would be required reading.

In light Cho's bullying claims, and the fact that I just saw his grandmother on CNN say (through a translator) "he never talked! The idiot", it is not an unreasonable assumption that this person may have had what Ms. Forward coined "Toxic parents".

Verbal, physical, and sexual abusing parents, controlling, manipulative parents, alcoholic parents, neglectful parents, this book covers it all. Do yourself a favor and read this book, or at the very least, check out the excerpt from the above link.

Sorry. They are about one section of excrement higher on the food chain than Faux and seek nothing but to sensationalize the already sensational.

Droopy had an excellent story:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x701336

"Toxic Parents" was one of the first books I read, after I entered therapy.

Basically, I was raised by wolves. The problem is--when you grow up with people like this, you
don't understand just how bad it is. Abusers (whether they abuse emotionally, sexually or physically)
twist reality and blame the children repeatedly.

I was the scapegoat in the family. Until I entered therapy, I assumed that I was "a horrible child"
and that my parents were fine. "Toxic Parents" talks a great deal about the role of the
scapegoat, in a dysfunctional family. The words literally saved my soul. The book helped me to
realize that scapegoating is how dysfunctional parents keep the most honest child in the family--sick
and silent.

"Toxic Parents" is a must-read---as you said lynyrd--for anyone who has grown up with abusive parents.

I also agree that parents like this breed serial killers. Parents like this catalyze tremendous amounts
of rage, helplessness, sorrow, shame and depression in their children. In extreme situations, children
"disconnect" from their feelings--because their pain is unbearable. This disconnection can lead to a
complete fracture from reality--and an inability to feel empathy toward any human being. Combine this
disconnect with intense rage--and you've got yourself a recipe for a Hannibal Lecter.

Society needs to make more seriously the issues of childhood abuse.

It is a very good book. It helped me quite a bit. It is a tough read though, as I remember, for those having suffered abuse.

A Grown-up's Guide to Getting over Narcissistic Parents," by Nina W. Brown.

The latter explains the narcissistic personality -- a common type of abusive parent -- in very accessible, laymen's terms.

almost every page. It answered many of my questions about my formative years, and yes, I don't feel alone in my experience or I brought on the abuse.

of the personality.

I had read other books that dealt with the subject, but when I read this one, it was as if a light bulb had gone on.

The problem I had was that my narcissist, like Bush, had indeed achieved a lot -- so the "grandiosity" seemed realistic. But this book explained how lack of empathy is really at the core of this personality -- an almost unbelievable inability to see beyond the self.

Bush is so extreme, though, that he seems almost like a cariacture of a narcissist.

might be a good read for my brother

Must be something wrong with me............

Read the book and second the comment that is worth every word. Great book.

I don't think you can get around (or that you're trying to get around) the basic responsibility for this horror being Mr Cho's. He wasn't an idiot. He was a sick kid who chose to get sicker and then chose to avoid help and finally chose to destroy as much as he could of a world he hated.

But yes, this tragedy has a thousand "fathers," from the high school bullies to the young man's bad chemistry to the parents' inputs (whatever they may be) to the easily available guns to the society that glamorizes violence, even as it is starting to glamorize Cho himself with front page photos of an intense looking "kewl dude" with the gloves and the backward hat and the macho action hero poses.

The next big shooter is being inspired by all this attention already. But the bottom line is, sick or not, Cho Seung decided to kill as many people as he could and we're all paying the price for living in a responsibility-free society.

I don't think you can accurately state that he "chose" to get sicker -- or even that you need to say it to assign responsibility for his actions to the shooter.

We need to be able to say, Yes, he was sick AND he was responsible for his actions. Yes, his family life (probably) sucked AND it was his responsibility to overcome his hardships.

I just noticed this thread.

I consider the writers http://www.alice-miller.com">Alice Miller and http://www.susanforward.com/">Susan Forward to complement each other. Susan Forward's book Toxic Parents is very practical in a nuts-and-bolts kind of way, much more so than Alice Miller.

I bought the book Toxic Parents right when it came out in the summer of 1989, a few years after my dad had died. I consider my dad to have been a toxic parent.

I had already come to realize how angry I still was at my dad a little over a year after he died. I found it especially helpful to me to come to the full realization that, while my dad did many very good things, and he was not by any means the worst father or worst parent anybody ever had, much of his behavior was actually abusive and very disrespectful, and it was not simply something wrong with me that I got upset and angry with some things he said and did.

I found it very painful to realize and accept that I missed the chance to actually be able to confront my dad when he was alive. Even though Toxic Parents does offer some suggestions for "confronting" a dead parent, it took me a very long time to come to be at peace about my not being able to deal with my dad when he was alive.

I had thought a few times about telling my mother how I felt about my dad, but always came to the realization that doing so would probably do more harm than good. My mom, by herself, has not been a toxic parent (though she did tend to go along with my dad when he was alive). Actually I think it has been a pretty effective "confrontation" with my mom to not confront her about my dad, but to be polite whenever she spoke of him, and politely acknowledge some good things he did, but to otherwise not talk about him. My mom has not pressed me about the matter.

I have found that by being able to deal, as much as I could, with both of my parents, in a way that I am satisfied with, I have much less overall anger and much greater self-esteem than I had when I was younger (and especially when my dad was still alive).

Let's consider cultural differences before we judge, please:

First of all, I'm not of South Korean descent, so if anyone on DU is, please add to what I say here, you obviously know much better than me.

Having said that, I do know in South Korea there is a lot of pressure to behave properly and not shame the family. This is a historic social phenomenon, and in recent years it has lessened some - but many still feel this way and if his grandfather, an older gentleman obviously, stated this, he probably still feels that way. He's angry - and understandably - he just lost a grandson for reasons he can't fathom. Partner that with a social pressure to act according to society's norms at all times and I am not surprise by his response. It adds more sorrow onto an already dreadfully tragic situation.

There's also a strong feeling of nationalism among South Koreans. They know just as much about this story as we do - they've followed it without pause. Yesterday South Korea's Ambassador to the US pledged to fast for 32 days to express his sorrow and regret. President Roh Moo Hyun sent three messages of condolence to the US within the first 24 hours. South Koreans are horrified. As stated in Time, "'It's a notion of collective responsibility,' says Mike Breen, the author of The Koreans. When a Korean does something wonderful, the country rejoices, but when one of its own goes off the rails, like Cho Seung-Hui, there's a collective sense of shame and burden (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1611964,... ). If this is what others are feeling due to a shared nationality, what must family members be feeling?

Just like with mental illness, let's not judge what we don't fully understand or experience ourselves.

Also - the interpretation by a CNN reporter, who wants to bring home a salacious, juicy story, leaves me suspicious.

Nonetheless, the books mentioned in this thread (the OP and other posts) are great and should be read by anyone who feels they are in that situation!