Do Parents OWN their Children? Domestic Violence and teen issues (long, sorry)

So my son has this friend, they have known eachother since elementary school, and despite his father's anger issues and wierd attitudes, they have remained very positive forces in eachother's lives. They are each 17 years old, Seniors now, both are CO's in NJROTC and his friend already took the testing and is signed up to go into the Air Force as soon as he graduates....for the full 20 year package.

This poor kid has been through the ringer. I don't know his dad, don't know if there is alcohol or drugs involved, just know over the years he has displayed very controlling behavior and had forbidden my son to come over (after a 3rd grade study evening...no answer to ME why this happened...)
About a few years ago the boys had been hanging out more again (in early High School), and my son was over for dinner...the dad insisted my son disrespected him and threw him out of his house, locked the door and my son had to walk 2 miles on a dark mountain rural road to another friend's house in order to call me to pick him up. I filed a police report against this man for endangering my child. My son was not allowed to even me to pick him up and the reason this man gave the sheriff was that my son said a swear word, and even after apologizing and saying that wasn't what happened...it remained a weird thing. This boy was not "allowed" to be friends with my son...and I was hated even more for calling the father on his crap and asking him where he thought he could get off treating my son that way. He hung up on me and threatened me and that never went into the cop report...he just hated us even more...if this man saw me at school functions he would glare at me, but never speak. Probably didn't want us around because I had already seen the signs of abuse in the family at that time. the control was part of it.

Meanwhile the kid and my son remained friends, are on Drill team and Color Guard together, and this kid is actually an example to mine. He has managed to hold a job for the past 3 years, and has really a proven track record of independence and maturity. I know not all teens are perfect, but this one has really NOT let the disaster of his dad's life (broken marriages and stepkids that are adored, etc...)affect him...he made it a reason to have an orderly life, and be a model student, I am sure he wull be officer material in the Air Force.
~~~~~~~
Sooooooo - yesterday afternoon the kid calls and asks ME of he can come over for a couple days till his dad "cools off" or he figures out where he is going to go...His dad had told him to GET OUT and he was walking to our house in a snowstorm. Of course i said yes, keep the kid safe & warm and fed & loved...that's who I AM. (though i joked "is this gonna end up with the cops involved?" ....shoulda known)

Today I took the young man by his house to get some more of his belongings. I made sure to park on the street and stay out of it, i was just the ride... I heard violent noises from inside the front porch, screaming and thumping as the kid was pushed around...Then the dad came outside at ME and said I better leave now, or i was IN BIG TROUBLE. I said I would not leave that child until I knew he was safe. the dad said I took the child and was starting stuff, i sad his son called US because he knew we were a safe place.
The son and I both called the sherriff from the driveway in front of the house and he sat in my car and cried on my shoulder for fear and anger...poor baby, dammitt.
The sherriffs showed up and the dad had a long talk with them, I stayed in the car and did not get involved, (but apparently the dad told the cops I was the one putting the domestic violence idea in his son's head and that he was just trying to discipline an unruly teen.)
The sheriff said that the father could make the decision NOT to let his son leave the house...and that if he left and called me, i had to contact the sheriff and let them know where he was...or be prosecuted for harboring a runaway... The kid was kept in the back of the sherriffs car while they talked to the dad and then escorted into the house. Like a freaking prisoner...


**So does a kid of 17 REALLY have NO rights? **
(we may be in CA, but I thought that the laws were more in favor of the victims in this...or does the dad have some way of bribing these cops or what? who knows...)

I don't know... but I was sick to death leaving that kid behind, and regardless of the Sheriff saying he 'had no reason to believe the child was in emminent danger' ...I worry that he either won't show up at school on monday or that he will be black & blue. I told my son to be there for his friend on monday and if there are any marks on him, to us his cell and take pictures.My son has been a rock of compassion for this kid and the boys even got involved in church together for a while there. it's just so sad.

I can't save this kid and am trying to stay out of it for sure...I avoid these kinds of conflicts but injustice and domestic violence are BIG trigsers for me, and I am glad I have at least helped this kid get the beginnings of a police record of this crap...
other than steering him to the advocates and the Women's Center in town, there's not much else I can do.

Maybe the reason i have a soft spot for this is because I am a survivor of domestic violence and I KNOW how the abuser manipulates the cops and counselors and keeps you in that place of powerlessness...I know I am not "projecting" either. I never asked leading questions, i never implied this. I just know that my son and him have been on the phone and my son would come to me with tears in his eyes... and say that this dad came in and started punching his friend because he was 'on the phone' ...that kind of information has been volunteered to me, but isn't legally viable because it is hearsay, I understand... but how do we protect and help others in these situations when the abuse is so well hidden? ...and it usually IS.

for 18 years and they have an obligation to love, nurture, protect, and care for their children.

It is heartbreaking to see how often children will unconditionally love their parents regardless of how they have been treated by them compared to the parents who choose to unconditionally love and accept their own children.

http://www.larcc.org/pamphlets/children_family/teen_emancipation.htm

Sounds like the dad's toxic.

I am concerned the kid has no rights...unless he can get the Air Force to take him early? what a fuckin horrible choice.
thanks for the pamphlet, i'll get reading now...

I forgot all about that. This kid sounds like a perfect candidate.

Some States require you to go to court to be emancipated, other states say you are emancipated by the act of your parents (My Home state of Pennsylvania is one of the later).

I would make a comment about emancipation, but it varies from state to state to such a degree a rough rule is impossible. My only advice is check with an attorney in your state (which applies to be California) for what is the law in Emancipation in your state.

Side note: I live in Pennsylvania where the law on emancipation is a creation of court made law (i.e. NO STATUTE COVERS THE CONCEPT). I can tell you the rule in Pennsylvania but it varies so much from state to state that it probably has no relevance in any other state.

Here is a web site that claims to show California Emancipation law, it is almost completely different from the Rules in Pennsylvania (Pennsylvania tends to follow the English Common Law Rules on Emancipation, California seems to have a statute that covers Emancipation of Minors).

http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/selfhelp/family/emancip/emanqa.htm

Can a parent emancipate a child even if the child doesn't want it?

http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/selfhelp/family/emancip/emanqa.htm

Through in Pennsylvania if the parent does NOT provide "Care, Support and Supervision" (In effect making the child emancipated in Pennsylvania) the state can still require the parents to pay support to the child till he or she turns 18. The Child is also eligible for welfare till the child turns 18 under the "Transitionally Aid to Needy Families" (TANF) and to get TANF the child must file for support from his or her parents.

In simple terms, it is possible, but almost impossible for all practical purposes.

You must understand Pennsylvania follows the Common Law rule on Emancipation, that it is the act of the PARENTS that makes a child emancipated. A Judge can confirm the Emancipation, but can not grant it in Pennsylvania. The Common Law recognized the situation that was normal in Rural Farming Communities, i.e. it was common for teens to leave their family household and take on jobs on various farms, often farms to far away to commute from home to their jobs, thus the teens lived on the farms they worked on. To do so they had to be able to form valid enforceable contracts, and only emancipated minors can do so.

I bring this up for the above site clearly says once a minor is emancipated that is permanent. That is a rule directly OPPOSITE the common law rule. i.e. under the Common Law the rule was a minor could go in and out of emancipation, something California clearly rejects (and is still the law in Pennsylvania).

I think they just have to show a basic sense of responsibility and some sort of "irreconcilable differences" with the parent. I think it's readily possible here, just doesn't happen very often because most teens really aren't ready. The kids I know who were emancipated were near graduation and had jobs and had never been in any trouble. The ones who want to be tend to be little hooligans who really need to grow up.

http://www.jrplaw.org/Documents/Emancipation%20in%20Multnomah%20County%20Oregon.pdf

The underlying State:

419B.552 Application for emancipation judgment; effect of judgment. (1) A juvenile court, upon the written application of a minor who is domiciled within the jurisdiction of such court, is authorized to enter a judgment of emancipation in the manner provided in ORS 419B.558. A judgment of emancipation shall serve only to:

(a) Recognize the minor as an adult for the purposes of contracting and conveying, establishing a residence, suing and being sued, and recognize the minor as an adult for purposes of the criminal laws of this state.

(b) Terminate as to the parent and child relationship the provisions of ORS 109.010 until the child reaches the age of majority.

(c) Terminate as to the parent and child relationship the provisions of ORS 108.045, 109.100, 419B.373, 419B.400, 419B.402, 419B.404, 419B.406, 419B.408, 419C.550, 419C.590, 419C.592, 419C.595, 419C.597 and 419C.600.

(2) A judgment of emancipation shall not affect any age qualification for purchasing alcoholic liquor, the requirements for obtaining a marriage license, nor the minor’s status under ORS 109.510. <1993 c.546 §134; 2003 c.576 §450>

419B.555 Hearing; notice to parent; duty to advise minor of liabilities of emancipated person; filing fee. (1) The juvenile court shall conduct a preliminary hearing on the minor’s application for emancipation within 10 days of the date on which it is filed or as soon as possible thereafter. At the time of the preliminary hearing, the court may issue a temporary custody order, stay any pending proceedings or enter any other temporary order appropriate to the circumstances. No action of the court pursuant to this subsection may be extended beyond the date set for a final hearing.

(2) The final hearing shall be held no later than 60 days or as soon as possible after the date on which the application is filed.

(3) Notice to the parent or parents of the applicant shall be made pursuant to ORS 419B.812 to 419B.839.

(4) At the preliminary hearing, the court shall advise the minor of the civil and criminal rights and civil and criminal liabilities of an emancipated minor. This advice shall be recited in the judgment of emancipation.

(5) The hearing mentioned in subsection (2) of this section may be waived by the minor and parent or parents.

(6) A uniform filing fee of $77 shall be charged and collected by the court for each application for emancipation. In addition, the court shall collect any other fees required by law. <1993 c.546 §135; 1997 c.801 §33; 2001 c.622 §51; 2003 c.576 §451; 2003 c.737 §§68,69; 2005 c.702 §§81,82,83>

Note: Section 15 (23), chapter 860, Oregon Laws 2007, provides:

Sec. 15. (23) In addition to the fee provided for in ORS 419B.555 (6), for the period commencing September 1, 2007, and ending June 30, 2009, the clerk of the court shall collect a surcharge of $4 for each application for emancipation under ORS 419B.555. <2007 c.860 §15(23)>

419B.558 Entry of judgment of emancipation. (1) The juvenile court in its discretion may enter a judgment of emancipation where the minor is at least 16 years of age and the court finds that the best interests of the minor will be served by emancipation. In making its determination, the court shall take into consideration the following factors:

(a) Whether the parent of the minor consents to the proposed emancipation;

(b) Whether the minor has been living away from the family home and is substantially able to be self-maintained and self-supported without parental guidance and supervision; and

(c) Whether the minor can demonstrate to the satisfaction of the court that the minor is sufficiently mature and knowledgeable to manage the minor’s affairs without parental assistance.

(2) Upon entry of a judgment of emancipation by the court, the applicant shall be given a copy of the judgment. The judgment shall instruct that the applicant obtain an Oregon driver’s license or an Oregon identification card through the Department of Transportation and that the Department of Transportation make a notation of the minor’s emancipated status on the license or identification card.

(3) An emancipated minor shall be subject to the jurisdiction of the adult courts for all criminal offenses. <1993 c.546 §136; 2003 c.576 §452>

http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/419b.html

when emancipating, your life has to be set up like an adults life, cause after all, you are saying you are adult material

is in his senior year of high school, has signed up for the military, and the roof can be hers. Unless he's got legal troubles, he'd have no problem in Oregon.

i know i see too many kids this age where they want to do what they want, a parent really has little control at this age, and they have the financial responsibility if the kid fucks up.

i often think at this age, emancipation should be given.

And have child protective services investigate. With any luck, he would turn 18 before they finished.

Other than that, nope, the kid has no rights. In Oregon, there aren't any runaway laws so a kid can leave and not get picked up. But I don't think that's true of CA or most states.

I had almost the identical situation with a friend of my son's except it was his mother who was the lunatic. Turns out the kid, who is now 23, is bipolar and has his own issues too. But I did what I could at the time.

Sucks that some people are such authoritarians. They set up these power struggles and then blame the kid for them. It's nuts.

Maybe somebody else will have better ideas.

They said they found no evidence of anything "illegal"...they said the dad admitted the argument got 'heated' but that's all...

it just sucks that there's nothing we can do for victims

I wonder if i could call CPS on monday and make a report? hmmm...i don't want to get any more involved, but at the same time i want to stop this ass before he really hurts the kid or gives him an injury that prevents him from joining the military because it would stop the kid from 'getting away'


the other thing that I HATE that abusers always say "you disrespected me"
it's like that "respect" thing is their way of justifying ALL the abusive actions, because you say or do something they decide is not 'respectful' ...which is even more ridiculous, because Respect is not what you usually feel for an abuser...it's more like a healthy fear. (ick)

And the more that it is demanded, the less that it can be earned.

I'm not 100% on that, but I think any time there's an accusation of abuse, adults in authority have to report. They don't necessarily have to remove a child from the home at that moment though. I would at least call CPS and ask what the law is when cops respond to a domestic situation like that and make enough statements that the CPS worker can follow up whether you make an actual report or not.

If the cops don't have to automatically report to CPS, then that's a law we need to change.

report any reported abuse! That sheriff needs to be in big trouble.

They have a 24 hour hot line. Google for the number.

just because he's 17 doesn't mean social services shouldn't be involved. At least the "dad" will be on notice that someone in authority is keeping tabs . ..

could talk to the school counselor, who would be obligated to call child services to do more of an investigation than what the police did.

Or you could call child protective services yourself. I did that once, called about the parents of one of my daughter's best friends, and the mom was my good friend (it was her new husband who was the concern, as well as the mom passively allowing it to happen).

They didn't remove the child, but I believe it may have put the parents on notice that they couldn't act the way they had been acting. I don't know, she could have still been abused at home, but at least it curbed the punishments that involved public humiliation.

It's a shame the son called you guys instead of 911 or 211 in some ways.

You will need to abide by the sheriff's advice to not harbor the son as a runaway, I believe that's a criminal offense and won't resolve anything, unfortunately. At this point, if he does run to you, you can't even claim ignorance ... you'd have to report his whereabouts to the police.

I'm not saying I wouldn't have done the same thing, I probably would have. It sounds like the boy likely is going to end up running away, the dad can't keep him truant, he'll leave the house at some point and may or may not come back. The more I think about that, the more I think it would be good if he had the phone number for some shelters just in case.

there isn't even a homeless shelter in town! there is a Women's Center, which i will call on Monday (sooner if needs be) and talk to them about the legal people available so the kid can get to see someone and try to start some papers moving...

even if it takes 6 months for this to go through, he will graduate by then and be gone in the AirForce ...

any firearms, knives, etc. Sounds like the sheriff is 1 of them, authoritarian nasties. Emancipation is the best option, as is leaving with no looking back.

CFS has a lot of power that the police do not have in an instance like this. The police need to see evidence before they intervene, CFS does not. Just cause will do.

You can make an anonymous call and leave this issue in their hands.

Edited to add that the woman's shelter should be 24 hours and CFS/CPS most definitely has 24 hr hotlines. You might not need to wait the weekend.

Sometimes abusers get hottest when the victims breaks silence and reaches out.

Best of luck to you and the boy. This is an issue that also affects me deeply. I am sorry.

Most schools with even a shred of Getting It don't kid around at all when there's suspicions of abuse. In loco parentis is a good concept, especially if it seems that the actual parent is loco. ;P

I'm just so sorry this is happening to the poor kid, and for you and your son to feel like helpless bystanders. Somewhere in the midst of this mess the kid knows it's not hopeless...there are people like you and your son out there.

*sighs*

:grouphug:

since i have no way of checking up on him, i can only hope & pray at this point...
maybe monday he will stop by after school and i can offer him some info. He has already mentioned emancipation, too...hope the kid gets his job at the ski/bike shop worked out so he can prove he has good income

can make all the difference in the world. It can change the course of a life.

http://www.saclaw.lib.ca.us/pages/emancipation.aspx

if he is signed up to go in the military he may have an out. I would talk to the ROTC commander ASAP, without making accusations, of course.

Msongs

said maybe the two boys need to have a 'sit down' with the Senior Chief and ask if the military can help the kid get emancipated any sooner or help him with some kind of backup plan...and yes, the school advisor will also have the obligation to call CPS because of the law, which is good too...
meanwhile i plan on calling the school as well and asking some pointed questions of the counselors there and maybe even talking to Senio Chief as well.....

A lot of police don't care about parent on child violence because they are guilty of domestic violence themselves.

Look at the cop in Bolingbrook Illinois - Peterson, he murdered not one but two of his wives, but his buddies on the force were good enough to see to it that they only showed up when HE called them to say the wife had hit him. (Otherwise they ignored the calls.)

Don't let yourself be put off - explain that it is an emergency situation.

and stay out of it. For your own protection. Calling the school is A Bad Idea.

In fact! I just remembered. If you DON'T call CPS RIGHT AWAY, you are breaking the law! The law doesn't just apply to "professionals", but to ANYONE who has knowledge of abuse.


http://www.dss.cahwnet.gov/cdssweb/PG93.htm


Reporting by Other Persons

In approximately 18 States and Puerto Rico, any person who suspects child abuse or neglect is required to report. Of these 18 States, 16 States and Puerto Rico specify certain professionals who must report but also require all persons to report suspected abuse or neglect, regardless of profession.4 New Jersey and Wyoming require all persons to report without specifying any professions. In all other States, territories, and the District of Columbia, any person is permitted to report. These voluntary reporters of abuse are often referred to as "permissive reporters."
http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/laws_policies/statutes/manda.cfm

Harboring a runaway in some states, too. Child Protective Services are there for a reason & it is THEIR job to deal with this sort of situation.

Continue to hound them about it until they DO something for the kid.

better than ask us, ask a lawyer

actually didn't drew barrymore get emancipated at 15 and that's california, isn't it?

i know you can't get involved and risk your own freedom and your own child but i believe there is a way for this young man to become emancipated, he should not have to tolerate being beaten for another year, he's prob. already had 17 years of it, if my experience was any guide...if you know a family lawyer who can help out and call the kid at a time when psycho dad is not at home, there has to be a way to solve this

trust me, life is WAY more difficult for the kid who has to run away and hit the streets to save himself, and it's obvious this kid is DETERMINED to stick it out and get an education, i am SOOO there, i am SOOO like that kid in that way but if you can find a way to get him out of this hell early, it would mean all the world to him

i stopped my parents beating me by pretty much challenging them to beat me to death, but i was much younger, there was no hope in sight, i truly wanted to die -- after a beating that they realized was much too much, where they risked their own freedom to hurt me because i wasn't going to stop it, it was over -- but if he's still being beaten at age 17 psycho dad truly may not have any limits...

Unfortunately, this man is an exploder. Anything and everything might set him off. The kid knows this and has likely been walking on eggshells around his dad his whole life.

The kid is going to have to make some grown up decisions if he's going to stick it out, with or without your help. He's going to have to alert the authorities himself, insist on it if he comes to your house again desperate for a place to stay. When the cops show up, tell them this is an established pattern with the kid's father, and that the kid isn't the problem in this case, and the cops need to talk to the guy without the kid present. He'll spend the night and go back the next day. Maybe. He needs to get a paper trail going to protect you as well as himself.

If he's self supporting, he can contact child protective services on his own and start the process to become an emancipated juvenile.

However, chances are very good that the kid has also been protecting his dad for years and will be unwilling to do any of it.

It's hard to say how much trouble you'll be in for giving him shelter. Mr. Asshole can make things as tough on you as he's made them for his son. The best thing is to keep that paper trail going and make sure the cops know your side. If the kid doesn't call them, you need to.

Good luck to all of you. Sometimes, families can be the worst thing in the world for a kid. The good news is that this kid has his way out all planned.

FRESNO
Director, Fresno County CWS Agency
2600 Ventura Street
Fresno, CA 93750
559-255-8320
www.co.fresno.ca.us

not following any rules...

i am seeing parents without control

i am seeing aprents powerless with kids that age

and i am seeing kids that age making really poor choices leaving few options for parents

breakdown in our society. not a few kids. lots of kids

did you not see that he is a model citizen, student and on the Honor Guard in ROTC? Not only that, but the fact the kid has found & kept his own job for years, has done the extra credit classes for his driver's license, and also did some actual chores here while staying over for dinner & breakfast, shoveled the driveway, etc...

yes, there are plenty of families that have kids that are out of control...
and yet this situation is clearly NOT that case

Call the Sherriff's office and ask to file a written report.

Call Child Protective Service and file a report on what you observed.

Tell the young man to talk to the school counselor.

Have your son talk with the school counselor.

The real problem is that he is 17, agencies are so strapped for resources that they don't want to put the resources into a fight between a dad and a son, when the son is going to be free to live where he wants in within 12 months.

as chattel. (we being women and children and animals) and yes, the man owned all of us. I think kids still fit into that category. Sad, isn't it?

that it wasn't MY call or his call, that the kid 'belonged' with his "family".... ugh.

Like i said upthread, the abuser has a great way of manipulating people and the story... so that authorities and counselors all believe HIM... meanwhile the wife is put on anti-depressants, or the kid is shipped to juvey where they are abused by the guards who are just "legal abusers." The sheriff did not impress me as being very open minded, that's for sure.
That is what i am seeing here

This young man has a number of legal options, including having someone -- like you or a relative -- become his legal guardian (even if his parents object); or becoming an emancipated minor.

If the teen had asked to go to a shelter, the officer would have been required to take him there. No one "belongs" in an abusive family.

Also, the link includes information about the steps you can take so that you don't run into trouble helping this young man. GOOD LUCK!



http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:vzW8d7FsuVkJ:www.lsc-sf.org/wp-content/uploads/runaway_2003_revised.pdf+california+%22emancipated+minor%22+abuse+hotline&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESguPYgQfYNwYOXidBfEm21WcaH4d52GNLK1wlZ8licCX2mTo132ZeUxgSET4zWi7w8BGIGyw-W0xuzZHzlMt1RREgmZxUffbhVfZ9l8-hvsgyu3vDh60z3LpsQt-YK-pcsDY91H&sig=AHIEtbRZMqKsQcYP_h61-FdxEMrH2c6YIw

Thanks for the document, maybe i can print it and share it with my son and he can take a copy to school.

I woke up this morning and one of the first thoughts was 'where is the kid?' and 'hope he is safe'

this is so heartbreaking and i plan on calling the shelter for abused women today and maybe cps as well...why wait till Monday?

I know that town and it is TOO SMALL. The laws probably aren't going to be of much assistance without legal papers.

Emancipation is probably the best way. At least at 17 he has only months left.

i bet the dad knows the sherrifs too, beause the one in 'charge' was veyr specifically arguing with me that it wasn;t MY legal call to say that the kid wasn't 'safe'...and that HE found no evidence of anything other than a parent with a disrespectful child who had a 'heated' argument...
i wonder if there is even going to BE a police report.

I may have friends on the CITY force because of my history...but the County sheriff if a different ball game, and they are mostly the type to 'look out' for someone who has connections like this dad. (wrks for a major utility co. as a supervisor)
the dad also took down MY license plate # and told me i'd better watch out...so i wonder if he has friends in places that will make MY life hell...? and i hope he doesn;t have access to the utility co records to find out my address...i guess i will have to call them monday morning too... yikes

You need to call CPS immediately! That child is in real danger.

left a message over the weekend and just left a voicemail with the specific worker this morning... so i hope to get a report filed.

they are the first line of defense, and i am also calling the women's center to make sure i don;t need to cover MY OWN ass...since this giuy threatened me as well...

:thumbsup: