I am sorry folks, but, I don't think I can stay.

I am a liberal democrat through and through. I grew up in a very poor family in a very bad neighborhood where joining the Army at seventeen was probably the only thing that kept me from a life in prison. As a consequence I am not the most educated person.

It has always been my idea that democrats are folks who don't have prejudgment or ridicule against people who grew up poor and were not afforded a good education. Rather, democrats are folks who fight for poor folks and treat them with respect.

Unfortunately it has been my experience that many folks here seem to prescribe to the personality trait of folks who wage personal attacks and ridicule of folks like myself who grew up poor and weren't able to receive a good education. I say its unfortunate because there are many nice folks here who are not like that.

However, the level of snideness that continues against folks like myself and folks who ridicule right-wing and corporate policies is something I don't recognizing as being liberal or democratic.

So I wish all of you good luck and I hope one day our country will be back in the hands of we the people.



Peace,
Xicano

Good luck to you too...

stay and play

Please stay. DU needs you.

Yea, the worst thing about the republican party's goose-stepping manifesto is that a lot of those folks are going to come over to the Democratic Party, further infecting what was once a party of the people, who cared about, and once and a while mentioned the poor.

Now, they are all "middle-class, middle-class," all the time. And the middle class they are talking about is like 200 grand a year too, as if. I mean, what, do you have to be in the top one percent to be considered rich? I can guarantee you that about 50 percent of our population if asked is making 200 grand a year rich, or middle class, would choose rich.

I suppose you could argue that amount is more in some regions than other. But unless you are a completely conspicuous consumer, than that amount can get you a good living most anywhere.

and poor people from the beginning of DU, and the same exists among "progressives" outside of DU.

Just like the US needs to grow up and take responsibility for its mistakes, so do "progressives". They are NO FRIENDS of poor folk.

I hope you reconsider.

There are some here who think they know it all.

There are some here who just enjoy stirring the shit pot. It's like masturbation for them. They are insulting, rude, offensive, and it's somehow your problem.

Not everyone sees things the same way. Usually, that's a good thing, but I feel there's still a lot of compassion here for those who are hurting, be it physically, financially, or whatever.

Consider that there are some here who have an anti-democratic agenda. Just because they have a high post count means nothing. Put them on your ignore list and you won't have to deal with them again. POOF! They just go away.

The ignore list is your friend, and it's a wonderful thing. I hope you stick around, there are many others who feel the same as you do. :)

And hey, it's an Internet discussion board: Lots of people, lots of opinions, lots of asshole opinions. A thick skin is probably the biggest prerequisite along with being able to defend your position.

And you don't write like someone who is uneducated.

That being said - Don't let the doorknob goose you on the way out. Or just use the Ignore function - both for posters or threads.

You'll be surprised at how often those you ignore eventually get a granite pizza - though sometimes not, having gone back and checked my list from the primaries. Interestingly enough, many of those on that list have stopped posting much.

This used to be the one place where folks built you up instead of tearing you down. Now the place is just like slashdot.

It's been a snakepit from the beginning - Sometimes a friendly snakepit, but a snakepit nonetheless: Way too many people with one issue agendas, way too many members of the "Sisters of Our Lady of the Perpetually Offended" and almost as much woo-woo as the Rapture Ready folks (anti-science, conspiracy nuts, astrology trolls, indigo freaks).

A large, horny carapace is a needed accessory.

what a wonderful place this was of discourse and kept my sanity during the nightmare years. How can we go back there again?

It's become such a hive of libertarian nutters that I can barely stand it any more. :/

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7100343&mesg_id=7100427

And it spun off into this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=7103510

And this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7110501&mesg_id=7110501

initiates a badly needed support group

I felt so sick reading it that I couldn't even respond.

I can only see one of the 3 (ignore). Or is that a good thing?

Two birds with one stone (means to posts with only one ignore).
And those you missed were not pretty.

I wasn't aware of the first one, but now some things make more sense.
Wow, there is someone really obsessed with poor people's behaviour.

Hating the poor is hobby #1 for a large percentage of people on this board.

other human beings.

Then they pride themselves on being for "peace". :eyes:

Sociopathic.

rather just guardians of the status quo and fighters on one side (what is for me, the other side) of class warfare. Just notice how much terms like "redneck" and "trailer trash" are used around here; heaven forbid someone be born in a place where they grow up speaking with a certain accent, or not care so much about making money or don't have opportunities to make money, so that instead of living in some shitty McMansion or an apartment in a big city, they have to live in a trailer because it's the most affordable housing for them. I've honestly - many times - witnessed people on here seriously refer to "flyover states".

There is a large portion of DU posters who hate the US and it's citizens just as much as the foaming-at-the-mouth right wing does - they just hate slightly different people. Both attitudes still serve to keep the populace divided against itself, promote fear and bigotry, and keep the elite in power. These people are still pawns - they're just pawns who drive their hybrids to the sushi restaurant instead of pawns who drive their pickups to a walmart.

All they care about it THEMSELVES. What happens to others is not of interest to them.

Sociopaths.

Others care a hell of a lot about other people, so long as those "other" people are exactly like them - they want reinforcement that the way they live is the correct way to live.

also have adolescent, mentally ill, troll, and big mouth; we have wise, and we have stupid

A thick skin helps

:thumbsup:

are.

* has tough skin.

Quite attractive, isn't it?

...it's assholes. You'll find assholes of all persuasions everywhere on the internet. My advice - stay and put the assholes on ignore. DU is probably the most informative website for progressives. Don't let assholes drive you away from this resource. :hi:

DU used to be a haven, not any more. Now, you have to have a thick skin to get about, just like any other forum on the Internet. The nastiness from the last Primary is still alive and well and worse now. DU is no different in terms of snark as any other place where the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory can be applied. If the forums are open, assholes will arrive and crap on you.

Good luck man.

:wtf: Are you suggesting we bow down to the rightwingers like Obama does? How is that being a "Liberal"? Bye Bye....don't let the door hitcha...

we need your input and your perspective.

I might have been to quick to post.......Not in the best of moods right now. :hi:

I know this is going to sound like exactly what the OP sounds like it's talking about ... but... I think the OP might've mis-wrote it.

Clarification seems called for... pending, well I'll go pend...

You can take a portion of a sentence and ascribe meaning to it out of context.

The sentence was..."However, the level of snideness that continues against folks like myself and folks who ridicule right-wing and corporate policies is something I don't recognizing as being liberal or democratic."

The OP clearly stated that he does not recognize attacks upon the poor and against those who are critical of corporatist policies to be something that liberals or members of the Democratic party would engage in.

I suspected there was something like that going on.

My anti-corporate feathers started getting ruffled a little bit.

Written words do not often convey what the author is saying in tone or sometimes even message. That is why with truly gifted writers we have a sense of the emotion and tone and we can identify and call what they write art.

the intent of the post ... then, you elected to respond like an ASSHOLE ... Why don't you let that same door you speak of, hit you in the mouth?

Sometimes I have to wonder if it is even democratic. I use to visit a music board that happened to be very, very conservative. The conservatives on that board were condescending, snide, and rediculed just about every religious or political message I wrote. I left there and searched out a liberal board I could feel comfortable sharing my views on. I've only been here a couple of months. But whether this is how many of the real posters feel or this board has been infilltrated by right wing trolls this board just doesn't seem conducive to liberal ideas. I'm not sure how much longer I will stay either. I may need to search out a real liberal message board.

It says right in the name -- "Democratic." There hasn't been a liberal or progressive Democrat in years.

Human nature being what it is, you will find mean, petty and rude comments from those of all persuasions.

authoritarians. Our society has serious social issues. But why should we not expect that when everyone has been so brainwashed and confused. We have had the most sophisticated Propaganda machine of all time, and we have let our education system go down.

It's idiocracy from the left view. I don't think it is too late .. yet.. but we are fast approaching the end of the line. I am preparing a backup plan to get the hell out if it becomes apparent the fascists are irreversible, or even if we are just going to kick each other in the ass and tell each other to "get a job and shut up". I don't want my children to grow up in a society like that. And I know from experience many societies are not that way.

I would love to move to a country where the government and society really are secular and they truly do contribute to the whole of the society and not just the top 1%. I've even gone so far as to get my documentation in order. Of course with the global economy the way it is not only is it hard to find a job anywhere but most countries are starting to impliment protectionist policies. Immigrating anywhere is going to be tough until the global economy recovers.

I don't like it much here either (too much dumbassery), but the place still entertains me on occasion.

So....OK. See ya.

More's the pity.

I too grew up like you, and tend to lean toward victim-hood at times and fight the urge to tuck my tail and slink away, its what I know. Don't fall into that victim rut. It seems you have overcome a lot of the statistical crap that happens in these types of upbringing, you articulate well which means you are no dummy...give yourself more credit than that and don't let the bullies drive you away. The nice folks here can use you on their team against the not so nice ones.

But you're just getting started; don't give up yet. I've been here for almost seven years and have to say that, from what I've seen, DUers are the most generous folks on earth. If someone needs help, advice or support, DU is always here, 24/7, through good times and bad. I've been here through two elections (one abysmal, one amazing) and I wouldn't have survived the 2004 debacle without DU. Sure, there are flame wars, the (always heated) primaries, the "pope wars" (yikes!), the war in Lebanon, a few April Fools' days LOL, the list goes on. Don't give up yet. You're just getting started. ;)

Rhiannon :hi: :grouphug:

AND, there are people here that will argue about anything just for sport it seems. Those are the ones to ignore.

no matter what position you take.

:shrug:

and i don't think anybody should be called dumb unless they say something dumb and even smart people do that! :D

First of all, there appear to be a number of posters here with either substance abuse driving them, or some mental shortcoming. You can't base your life on those people and what they say.

Second, they're still a small group of posters, and they're no more numerous than the crazies on the freeway driving next to you, or shopping in the mall next you, or simply being your neighbor and being annoying. It's not a world free of conflict. There are such idiots anywhere you go, big city, small town, or in between.

Third, you can alert on personal attacks, you can use Ignore to block those posters, or you can figure they're idiots who embarrass themselves.

Stick around. Blow it off. You've always seemed OK to me, although I can't identify your position on any issue.

people who shop at walmart, people who drive trucks, people who eat fast food, people who don't have the best grammar, people who make spelling errors, people who make a typo, people who have iPhones, people with too many children, women who choose to be homemakers, women who are single who have kids that are in the military, people who speed, people who put too many lights up for holidays, ugly women, pretty women, women who wear makeup, women who wear too much makeup, people who smoke, people with nice cars, people with clunkers, people who drink bottled water,

you name it...

they ridicule it.

:evilfrown:

:evilgrin:

;)

:rofl:

women who breast feed without discretion in public, or those who sleep with turtles and have odd pets.

:hi:

Hope you had a great holiday with your little dogs, and many, many, many, more to come.

talk soon

I think it's pretty good.

Though I don't often frequent that forum. People who post in there have been making references to it for years and years.

--imm

Seriously, you attention whores who feel the need to post I'M LEAVING, EVERYBODY! YOU'LL MISS ME!!!! threads are getting really fucking tiresome.

Well, I'm sure Skinner will have something to say about that.

I get called a "kool-aid drinker" and "pom-pom waver" for actually supporting the President despite disagreeing with him on numerous policy points. I'm not exactly thick-skinned either, but I brush it off because I remember that it's a FUCKING INTERNET MESSAGE BOARD.

Some of us stay anyway.

I think your post is uncalled for. I also think the OP brings up an excellent point that needs to be reflected upon by many DUers here.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Though it is 10 years old.

But she is eight.

there are a lot of holier than thou blue collar workers too who scream "limousine liberal"! if someone dares to have worked for anything more than an associates degree-or even graduated High School. There are plenty who aren't competing with anyone for the "most noble and pure Democrat" title either; those who have been very poor, very successful, then very poor again, and who know better than to discriminate on the basis of education or income.

Rec for your post.

We have much reverse snobbery on DU.

If they're sincerely fighting for a good cause, I don't care what he or she drives, and/or where they happen to live.

but they are far from holding the position in life. I can tell. They are like the GOP rank and file that vote 'as if' they were rich. They are Joe the Plumber served ala Democrat, on a sizzling platter of snark with a side of pretense.

Do you really think that most of DU are rich douchebags who don't understand people who work for a living?

I've never gotten that impression.

and always plenty to jump in and defend the thesis that "somebody who makes $120,000 a year is not rich".

Of course, one should expect about 50% to be above the median income, but I think the survey showed that we skew higher.

and boy have i gotten chewed out for it.

Just kidding. ;)

I drive a slightly old pick-up truck. It gets great gas mileage, but that benefits ME, first of all, because I have limited dollars to spend on gas.

just when i need to haul something. we have a honda fit for most trips.
i work at home and Dh rides the commuter train to work, as does everyone else in the family. so, all in all.....

i do occasionally sleep in it, also. it's my official dog house.

and I don't feel a need to buy a new one. But then I was brought up in a family of six girls and it was always a struggle. Went to work as soon as I was old enough because if we wanted anything extra we had to buy it ourselves. My mother sewed most of our clothes, and a store bought dress was very unusual.

Still, I'M A LIBERAL and remain one today because of what I learned from growing up rather poor. It taught me a LOT about LIFE and how to manage money too! I come and go here, and I feel I need to stand up for what I believe in. I'm NOT drinking ANY Kool-Aid just because other's think it's the "Democratic Party" thing to do!

There are times I wonder if THIS Democratic Party today is the one I signed up for, but I will stand up for my liberal leanings, but will give credit where credit is due. Unfortunately, I'm not seeing much to give credit to these days... I have a WISH that I will, just don't know anymore!

I try not to make personal attacks even when others who lean more to the right attack me, but I think that says more about THEM than me.

Stand your ground, take a break, but stay true to what you believe, even if it's not what I believe. I must say that I'm confused about which side you lean to even though you say you're a liberal, but the part about the other side threw me off a bit. A little clarification would be nice. Either way, I think you are feeling what so many of us are feeling, that we have become so very FRACTURED and some people "jump" very quickly to tear others down.

It Is Too Bad, but it I don't see any end to it. Whatever you decide, just remember there ARE a lot of very good hearted people here. I refuse to lower myself or even put them on ignore because I believe in ME, even when others don't!

Plus, I would like to know how you can tell who is wealthy and who is poverty stricken on an internet message board, unless they come right out and tell you.

What the hell is a "limousine liberal"? Al Gore? I need to look it up right now, because I don't understand.

I'm tagging threads and sub-threads for future reference. Not all threads tagged are examples of something to criticize - some are examples of the the subject of classism or classist attitudes.


To the OP - times like these tend to pull back the curtain on classism and capitulation to power and privilege.

Times like these also lay bare an ugliness among many of today's democrats and party leaders - word service to the middle class so that they can continue to give literal "lip service" to the financial elite.

That's what Congressional Democrats are all about too.

My advice? DON'T GO! FUCK THOSE DOUCHE BAGS!

'literal "lip service" to the financial elite' I love it. Subtle and true.

Hi everyone, I posted a new episode to my podcast, The Frank Factor | Liberal and Proud!.

Please click the link below to view it.
http://thefrankfactor.podOmatic.com/entry/2009-11-30T16_37_38-08_00

Join actual Liberals and unconventional Democrats.
http://TheFrankFactor.com
See you there!

- TheFrankFactor

And it get to the heart of a larger problem effecting forum, party, American political system.

When I was flamed by a member for my husband re-heating his coffee in the microwave instead of using only drinking fresh brewed "pressed" coffee, I realized some people are all about themselves, and enjoy calling out people they perceive as "inadequate" to post on this website. In fact I do have a coffee press, and grind my shade grown, free trade beans, but didn't think it worth the effort to respond to my tormentor.

This website has become quite a challenge to plow through. Too much nasty dissension for my taste. I do enjoy the Photography, Pets, and Cooking forums, so not all is lost.

WTF?

Going back on topic, the Democratic Party is following the Republican Party ever more to the far far right, this is a shame as it all it means is voters are simply left with a choice of conservative, Conservative ULTRA Right.

I appreciate your posts. Can you "ignore" those who are getting you down?

...and if they're good enough for you, then they're good enough.

Good luck and take care! :)

so don't go.
Let the criticism slide off your back.

http://bageant.typepad.com/



The comfortable middle and upper middle class seems to be the majority here on DU. Don't expect too many to get it. It was easy to ignore class bias when we all had a common enemy. Not so much anymore.

Good stuff. Thanks for the link.

Your post does nothing to advance our common goals. It only kicks sand in the faces of those you feel are the "comfortable middle and upper middle class". It begs for someone to post a snarky rebuttal. The world will never be class neutral. Being middle and upper middle class does not mean they don't get it. It does not exempt one from seeing suffering and need and doing what they can to lift the less fortunate up. I always felt the Democratic party was the party that fought for the underprivileged, the downtrodden, the ones needing a hand. That doesn't mean the party is only made up of people in those circumstances. If that was the case, there would be precious few to lend a helping hand. This board does reflect the great diversity that is the Democratic/Liberal/Progressive community. That includes all ethnicities, rich, poor, young, old, highly educated, minimal education and all in between. Yes, and even those who have religious faith (much scorned here) and those that do not.

Those who post insensitive, snarky, and well stupid posts, I can only assume they are disruptors seeking to drive wedges between the many factions of our alliances.

Peace :loveya:

First off, your messages never gave me the impression you are not educated. You have come across as being as well informed and as literate as anyone else here.

Second, people who are secure in their own abilities never make others feel uncomfortable - the ones who do try to be superior are just showing how little they think of themselves.

I would miss you if you leave. Please stay.

as a place to take out their aggression. In other words, they act like snide assholes on line. Don't let 'em get to you. Take a break if you need to.

I suspect the louder they are here, the more meek they are in their lives.

We've become more like the "AM radio crowd" we think of as our opposites, than we realize...

Good luck to you...

After reading so many of your responses, I have to admit it gives me encouragement. I still don't know what to think about the thinly veiled (and sometimes blatant) rudeness I've witnessed against some women and folks with limited education, as well as some other posts I've read and was left wondering if the poster was a democrat or a republican.

There are so many nice folks here and I've always loved the level of wisdom and intelligence I often see here. So on that note and the numerous requests from so many asking me to reconsider. I am gonna have to reconsider. Right now though I am late in getting ready for a union meeting. I will have all you nice folks on my mind at the meeting tonight.


I must get ready for the meeting now or I'll be more late. I want to thank the many who responded with encouragement and understanding. Its you folks who put a lump in my throat and give me hope.


Peace,
Xicano

Some of the folks who make fun of the 'oor and uneducated masses are some of the most ignorant boors you'll ever meet.

And round these parts the level of rudeness against "those not like me" are galore.

Yep, I got an education and did not grow up poor... but you know what? The best people I've known do NOT have college degrees, are union workers, and have something a few of their "supposedly betters" are missing... humanity.

Now don't get me wrong a few are just asses... but that happens in every social group

Oh and enjoy your union meeting, they can and are fun.

And if you decide to stay round these parts, that's cool. If not good luck and have a good life.

Just remember the democratic party is not an organized party. It is more like a sack of cats on the way to the river... why getting them marching in a single direction is like trying to herd, well cats.

It is unfortunate and wrong, but it is human nature. I know that I may have disagreed with some of your points, but you are an important part of the forum and your perspective is necessary to represent all aspects of Democratic and liberal thoughts. Hope you stay.

i do, and never regretted it. you can always unblock them. i find the rudest ones usually contribute the least to the conversation. the perspective of people who grew up with limited finances is needed here, but if you find a better place where people are more open-minded and empathetic, spend time there. you don't have to 'leave' here. none of us are not expendable. just state your opinion and take your knocks. my tender spots have been living in kansas and having more than a couple of children.

I wish you'd stay. If you like I can PM you my own ignore list, it's vast! Could save you time and aggravation... think about it.

there might be a rule about this stuff, but damn i am tired of it all. my list is pretty long. but somehow it is never long enough.

What would be nice is a one-click ignore rather than going through the form.

edit: or a batch ignore based on phrases - wouldn't that be nice!

pretty sure there are some folks here who use them to jump on their favorite topics.
if it was my website, i would not only have a one click ignore, i would have a fun little nuclear explosion gif to go with it.

We have walked some of the same roads, and we all would rather have you on board.

"Illegitimi non carborundum" is mock-Latin for "Don't let the bastards grind you down." Amen to that.

Here's hoping you stick around. And use the "ignore" option... liberally.

some posters here attack others for "wasting" their money on college and call white collar workers "The enemy". Some think that you aren't a true Dem if you don't currently belong to a union. Some consider any homeowner a "kool aid drinker" who is trying to look like a member of the elite by wasting their money on a home. Every possible form of snobbery can be found here; there isn't anything anyone can post without someone flaming them for it-but that just seems to be the nature of discussion boards.

:eyes: This place is SUPPOSED to be about that. :eyes:

It takes a little doing, but if one re-reads the OP carefully, one will see he meant "folks who ridicule right wing and corporate policies" receive snide remarks from others.

http://www.last.fm/music/Mot%C3%B6rhead/_/(Don't+Let+'Em)+Grind+Ya+Down

...edit - that's supposed to link to Motorhead's Don't Let Em Grind Ya Down

I have to thank all the nice folks here for the encouragement. I love you all and have to thank you.

glitch, if you get this post, I very much appreciate your offer and would like to ask you to PM me that list. I will use it when I come back from my meeting.

Now I really must get going I am now ten minutes late for my meeting.



Thanks everyone.



Peace,
Xicano

Thanks for staying; yours is a unique voice, and we need all the diversity around here we can get.

:hi:

:kick:

That's a reasonable man exercising top notch judgment, and that rarest of commodities, common sense. Ya sabes.

mvs

Solidarity Forever (Pete Seeger)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYiKdJoSsb8

And I have to also say that I don't know who the hell was carrying a camera in your unit in order to get that picture of you on a cattle truck while you were in the Army, but it was funnier than hell seeing that picture.

When I got out of the Army, I tried to explain to my friends back home about how we were transported from here to there on cattle trucks and none of them really believed me. They just couldn't fathom the Army using cattle trucks to haul us around in at times.

So, seeing you in that cattle truck brought back a lot of memories.
Most of them bad.
LoL

But, I have to admit some of them were funnier than hell, too.
While we were all running around playing soldier in the late 70s.

You sound like a very nice person. Many of us are, too. ;)

a day care for 'adults', a psychiatric snake pit, a bent needle crochet club, a hen house full of wolves and half cracked eggs and some good stuff too so my counsel here would be for you to place these matters into a mobile that turns for you with so little as a kind wind - take some time, maybe don't go too far away but come back around wade in swim in jump in but consider :)

:(

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

heheh

All are welcome here and those that attack fellow DU posters have some issues themselves or they are not really Liberals!

You went into the military and that is more than many can say. The military is a fine vocation and it is certainly nothing to be ashamed of. Thank you!

You are most welcome here!

:pals:

town. My husband retired from the military and we travelled the world and the united states. If you have been around and really rhave seen the world than you would know the difference from poor people who don't want to get any learning experiences. I only have a high school education yet I can set with people because I have lived in places many people never get to see. Now poor people aren't necessarily stupid people. I know many poor people who are good hard working people yet some of them could give a damn what is going on outside of their little towns. To me that is stupid. They look at people who come here as dumb foreigners yet many come and learn english and speak their own language. As far as corporations go. Well corporations are no friends of the poor. If it weren't for the unions we wouldn't have labor laws, 5 day work weeks, child labor laws, and minimum wages. Yet the unions who are the backbone of this country get a raw deal since Reagan took office and broke the unions. Now people here in the south don't want unions. They will allow coporations to keep them down like good little lemmings. Na your right you aren't a liberal. Liberals always care what happens for the good of people. Unlike the republicans who only worry about the Jesus vote and corporations. Your to senstive when it comes to the working poor. When someone says something it is up to you to bring the right prospective and correct the wrong.

People just got done convincing Xicano to stay.

As Howard Dean says quite frequently, the Democratic Party has a large tent, with a wide range of ideology.

If you want lockstep thinking, look at what has become of the Republican Party.

By deleting this entire post you will 'correct the wrong'.

You've proved the OPs point.

minded simpletons with only the limited ability to hear our thoughts parroted back to us. I think it's important and necessary to have all manner of people from all walks of life and experience talking together, not at one another or over one another but together. All points of view merit respect and to be heard. Yes, there will be attacks and ridicule but they reflect the person giving them and not the person they are directed at. Sometimes there will be a group attacking but this doesn't make them right it just makes them bullies.

If you need time away by all means take some and then come back rejuvenated and stronger! Don't let others dictate your behaviour, don't give them that power.

Peace friend :-)

Let the invaders leave.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7126579

and how typical of some DUers to attack another DUer - in violation of "the rules" instead of responding to the post.

Glad he decide to reconsider.

if enough of us stay and fight back, they'll eventually leave.

--and one of them is a perpetual pain in the butt anyway.

Especially, coming from you.

Even without "a background" many of us start a sentence and than change our mind, yet the "wrong" grammar stays. I know that this happens to me often. And, with all the shortcuts of digital communications, clearly most would not pass any "anal grammar.'

Either way, we should comment on each other content, not the form. At least, not with such harsh words.

I am glad you took the time to go after these people. I don't like going after another DUer but what you did should earn the eternal gratitude of many of us.

Thanks, again.

some people really need to take a good look at themselves in the mirror, the arrogance that I saw in those posts were infuriating. As someone who was also born into a poor family whose parents never graduated high school to go to work to escape poverty, who did the best they could for me, it was very upsetting reading those posts.

Don't fret though xicano, the bigger they are the harder they fall, you and I and some others are equipped to deal with adversity, we have the ability to get by with what little we might have at times, we can just deal with it, but the arrogant, hoity toity ones with money? they lose the 1 thing that they think sets them apart from the rest of us peons, they lose that money via a bad economy? collapse of the dollar? the stock market tanking? most of them couldn't deal with it, because all they have in their lives to set them apart from the rest of us is only their money, and newsflash to people like that, your money can't buy you things like class and human decency, something that can be found in the average hard working struggling American, but is so limited in your social circles.

so don't let them sophist freaks get you down, we are gonna win, but to win you have to stay in the struggle!

you can learn a lot on here to better prepare you for the eternal battle against the eternally greedy... just as learning never ends, neither does the struggle :toast:

As another poster pointed out, the private message system is one way to work out misunderstandings. Sometimes people don't mean to be as harsh as their posts would suggest.

Thank you for deciding to stay with us.

go somewhere where you feel more kinship with people. There's nothing noble in getting beat up. The average intelligence here isn't as high as it once was. Good luck to you.

that always happens, there are good people who don't judge.

I've got a huge ignore list and not one of them is in your entire thread. There are a shitload of pro-war, pro-torture, pro-corporate at the expense of others around here, just like everywhere else. Add them to ignore, forever.

are fucking lying. there are more phd's on du than exist in the universe.

everybody here has more knowledge (more education, more degrees) than anyone.

the fact is that most here are just like you. a high school education at best. some with the coveted aa. a few with a ba/bs.

the rest here are fucking pretenders. don't listen to them. your life experience far outweighs their "imaginary" diplomas.

don't leave because people here bullshit you. bullshit them back. brag about your imaginary degree as they do too. i see you with a phd. like most of the phd's i see here.

booya!

When we cannot even embrace, welcome and include our own...or make a safe place where we are free to disagree!

Ad hom attacks are technically against the membership rules, but it happens all the time.

I hope you change your mind and stay, but if you don't, I understand and wish you well.

especially since we seem to be on the same side.

I mourn the old DU of civil discourse and great journalists hiding here. Am sad as well...but we need good people like you that don't need to elevate themselves by putting others down.

The cold hard truth is that if you can't handle that part of DU, you will end up leaving anyway.

It's a shame that you were attacked personally. It happens to a lot of folks who have good intentions here. I could understand if that were your reason for wanting to leave.

But, why do you have a problem with our calling out the ridiculous and hateful ideologies of the right-wing and corporate monsters in this country?

He is saying he ridicules those policies but his efforts to do so are mocked and ridiculed.

I came here to express those experiences as related to the Democratic Party. There is elitism here. There is conservatism masquerading as "Democratic" policies. There is ridicule of almost everyone. However, if I leave, no one will ever know...

be back?

that implies that the people once held the power...

when was that?

And then come back when you feel rejuvenated.

Then, avoid controversial threads--especially on topics that upset you.

As suggested above, put all assholes on ignore. It works wonders.

WE are nothing but a pain in the ass to the corporate wing of the party, so of course they're going to try and send nasty trolls over here to ruin the board. Don't let them win!

That being said, I understand. The Rahmbots on here are just awful, and an awful reminder of how our party is attacking its own base.

but it sure made posting again more fun after I threw them into my iggy pit :P

This is my second time around at DU. I left the first time because I felt the intolerance being displayed by people I thought should be tolerant of others (somehow, I assumed this was part of being progressive:crazy:) was abhorrent.

I thought perhaps that now 'we' were on the winning side that things would change, unfortunately sometimes I feel I'm in a Three Stooges short. Smackdowns and slapfests abound.

I guess I missed whatever happened.

Your statement above is quite eloquent in and of itself, and certainly puts the lie to any notion of your not having something to say..

Anyone else here who could possibly fill me in as to what lead this person to feel unwanted?

Don't let these creeps run you off!

welcome? I mean you label the policies you don't like as "right-wing and corporate" but you are still "ridiculing". What made you think that you wouldn't find people that don't support your efforts to ridicule Democrats at the DEMOCRATIC Underground??????

I'm sure there are several thousand random boards out there to enjoy!


:hi:

Then ever....

We need more liberal voices. If we liberals leave, our ideas don't even get heard, let alone put into action. People who resort to ridicule do so, because they have nothing of value to add to the conversation in general. You can't take it personally. You can only be the best you possible, to heck with them. Ignoring rude people is the best way to ensure they go away, but if you leave then the rudeness wins, because it made you back down.

I see this here, frequently, it's as if people cannot bear to let points of view that differ with their own enter the greater stream of consciousness. Some of these ideas may be painful for them, or may make people realize the world is not all chocolates and roses like Walt Disney said it would be.

You have to stand your ground, and if you look there are plenty of us who are standing with you. I'm a liberal, I want the best possible life for everyone involved, I want all human beings to not only be called equal, but to be treated as equals. From that point of view I have no problem asking anybody, why don't you want the same?

Though, I have to admit, I've seen some pretty heart-breaking points of view here, and from other people who call themselves liberals and Democrats. I just figure they didn't get the same information growing up, and in their adult lives as I did. They don't quite get that when one is injured we all bleed and the part of me that is my mother feels compelled to teach.

Keep your chin up and don't let dark perspectives cast their shadow on your heart - definitely don't let such perspectives make you back down. If we don't fight to have our ideas and ideals heard, and eventually put into action, who will? In the end, liberalism always wins. Look back, over time we get the things we were told were fairy tale notions - like unions, child labor laws, voting for women, safe workplace laws, minimum wage, civil rights, EPA... I could go on, but you get the idea. These were all unattainable when people started thinking of them now they're seen as simply civilized - of course we have these things.

We have to push back against C-Street, if no one else. Don't let the bastards grind you down.

~PEACE~

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Don't let the Bullies beat you down.

I understand because I get weary of all the put downs as well.

If a word is not spelled correctly that is a "No, No" for all the Spelling Champs around here.


I have a serious problem with my eyes but they don't know that, nor do they care. They only want to feel they are so smart because they can correct someone. Sometimes I can't even see well enough to find the correct spelling in the little tiny choices.

Don't let them run you away, ever.

.... I can relate to your story as well. Grew up in a VERY poor & abusive household (but was always money for booze and drugs), had ragged clothes, lucky to get a lunch during school, x-mas gifts were an extreme rarity unless I had the chance to go to a friend's house.

Lucky for me, a friend of mine's grandfather offered me a challenge: If I can stay in school, keep my grades up and endure the daily BS of my house, he would send me to college.

I suffered for years dealing with an abusive step-father (he shot me twice and stabbed me 6 times to go along with the beatings) and a boozing, drug addicted family that didn't give a shyt about me (EXCEPT for my grandmother) and Mr. Ford (my friend's Grandfather) kept his word ( had it put into his will) and I was able to seek higher education because I did NOT want to become what my family wanted me to be: a nothing.

Now I am a father of 5 (4 boys, 1 girl), have 1 Masters (later in life), 2 Bach's and 6 Assoc Degrees (final repayment due Jan of next year and all my loans are paid off) and a loving 2nd wife who had the patience to allow me to achieve my goals to honor the man that gave me a chance.

His word of advice amounted to this: Never give up the fight. Never give up on life.

I actually had to realize that I was looking down on the 'Silver Spooners' when I should have been looking forward (hard habit when you look at how they had everything and had everything handed to them). Now I'm at peace but I will NOT allow a 'Silver Spooner' quarter when it comes to my history compared to theirs.

Don't give up and don't give in. That will only turn their noses up higher to the sky ever further my friend. If they had to deal with strife in the manner we had to deal with, they'd crack and fail. Case in point (my friend ). He squandered his chance because he felt he could just do whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted and that things will be fine later on down the road. He now lives in his grandfather's trailer (lot paid for, all he has to do is pay the bills he incurs) and working in a small hardware store that barely pays him just enough to pay his bills and a bit for groceries. I help him out when he needs it and I refuse to give up on him. Have been trying to get him to move to the PA area but he does not want to leave our home state.

All in all, I am paying forward what his grandfather paid for me. He is doing much better as he has held onto his current job and expecting a .40 cent raise in Feb (makes $9.20/hr). Am proud he is becoming stable and hope he decides to move up here to my family and I soon.

Take care and remember, don't give up and don't give in. You came alot further than those that are on the 'snide' side so don't hide your pride ( I know it rhymes lol)

I don't like a lot of things said here but quitting is not an option.

educated than the people being ridiculed here on DU. You should be proud because you raised yourself up.

You have earned the right to have a better opinion of yourself. Don't take things personally. No one is talking about you personally.

when ever you put something out anywhere that is subject to a large audience, like DU, it will bring out snerts and people that delight in attacking others.

It's just the name of the game. People like you are what make DU good, and it would be a shame to loose you. Just from one person to another, please reconsider leaving. It would be a defeat for both you and us.

-jim

The memories of my youth are still painful after 60 years. Growing up in a poverty pocket all of my friends were dirt poor which actually was better than living in a more demographically diverse area since we were all poor together. All the liberal latte drinkers can go to hell as far as I'm concerned.
I think poverty classism and racism have to be experienced first hand to understand them. I have been listening to lies about poor people my whole life. The most hateful one is that poor people are lazy. I
can remember how hard some of my friends families worked just to survive and yet I never heard them complain much. Poverty and rape have much in common. They are both crimes that make the victim feel guilty and try to hide the crime. At a foreclosure protest this week on of our people was talking about a family who moved out in the middle of the night on the same block to avoid the embarassment of being foreclosed. We need to support and encourage victims and not tear them down. Yes, I was relatively lucky that I came from an educated family and was born with an ability to do well in school without trying to hard. My lifelong committment to fighting classism and racism has kept me from making much money but I wouldn't have it any other way.One can't work for the appressor class without doing their bidding. The Democratic party on the national level is of course way too conservative but hten I'm a socialist with a long track record (and rap sheet).
My wife, who is of African origin deals with racism a lot better than I do. The Black Church saved my sorry old ass more than once even though I'm not much of a Christian. The Indians who live in object poverty have shared with me all that they had. We will always have poverty and classism as long we have a capitalist society.

spanked and ridiculed more than a few times. Pick yourself up and dust yourself off and start again.:)

Please dont give up on DU....
The number of good people far outnumbers the mean ones.
You need to have a good coat of teflon when you swim with sharks...and we do have sharks in these waters.
However...America is worth saving and I hope you keep on with the good fight.
If you need a break..thats normal...we all do from time to time...
But remember you are a warrior and return to us again when you feel up to it..you will be welcome back.

I wish I was already on my holiday vacation so I could respond to everyone's post individually. Arrr, the realities of life for us working folks.

Anyway, thanks again everybody, and, I can't tell you how much of a difference you made in reminding me one of the reasons why I joined the DU. I posted a new thread for all you who responded with your words of encouragement. And I am gonna stay. I can't leave a group like this.

:grouphug:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7138921

well lets just say you shouldn't let it get to you.

Yeah, DU disabused me of the idea that liberals automatically care about poverty, too.

The ugliness here towards poverty and poor folk is horrendous.

Thank you for speaking out. I hope to hear more from you, but I really do understand the need to protect oneself.

:yourock:

BTW, you speak like an educated person, so there. :hi:

and another one leaves and another one leaves.

The other night I dreamed DU was this huge tire fire, spewing toxic waste into the atmosphere, poisoning everyone on the planet. Every now and again, I pop in to watch the tires burn.

This place is fucking toxic and you should all get out while you can.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Ladyhawk/49 <--why I left

I came back a couple of times, but I realized I was right to leave the first time. And I mostly stay away...except every now and again, I just have to watch the tires burn.

Hope you are doing well. :hi:

You sound like you are educated to me. You write/speak very well and express your ideas very well. My folks came from poverty too. My brother and sister's generation of relatives were the first to graduate from high school. Their kids the first to graduate from college, but only because student loans paid for their education. Until the 70s most of my relatives in Utah lived on dirt floors with outside plumbing. My father piped their houses one by one and put in floors. He weather proofed the houses, because it gets freaking cold there. He had quit school when he was in junior high to help support his family because they could not grow enough food to live. He worked hard in construction for the rest of his life after coming to California in the midst of the Great Depression.

What scares me is that a person could not do that now. There are no jobs to be had anymore, especially jobs that people can get which allow them to work with their hands. My niece with her masters degree and her job as a newspaper editor is in danger of being laid off even with years of experience. She has no idea what kind of job she could get either.

I think this is the experience a lot of people on DU are having. I am retired. I worked for the federal government until my Multiple Sclerosis made me too sick for me to work at anything. You worked for the government in your way. I have no scorn for you. I respect what you have done with your life. It is not worth letting people drive you away from something you are good at doing, and that seems to be posting here. But if I make fun of the corporate Republicans who have put us at or below the poverty level, I hope you won't hold it against me too much. What else can we do? We've got to release tension, and laugh or we will explode. Let's try not to take that tension out on each other though. Who else do we have?

we haven't met nor have i seen any of your post except this one.Listen every voice is important you may not agree with everyone and everyone may not agree with you. But you say you lack education and was not brought up in the right neighborhood.so what.None of us were born in the right neighborhood,and we are all still learning. If you think that everybody in the DU has something against people who are not rich, you are sadly mistaken. Some members get on their high horses.Thats okay. You just have to learn how to climb up in the saddle.Dialog is what helps bring knowledge along with written words and research. Here at DU you can find all of those things. You should only post when you feel comfortable. If there is something you don't know or need some facts about just ask. If you are too embarrassed to ask a question that you feel someone will make fun of or think you are really some illiterate ass just click on one of the in boxes of a post and send a personal post so that someone can research for you or provide you a link.View different kinds of news outlets so that you can stay up on some of todays issues.I am not trying to tell you what to do only making suggestions that might be helpful.My computer was down for a little over two years but i had Du members to post for me under their names they kept me informed of the latest info.I found some good resources here.Bringing your own message to DU is sort of like getting a christmas gift from the ugly aunt with the mustache. You don't want to kiss her but you damn sure want to see whats in the box.:hi: :hi: :hi:

....we need you!....now is not the time to leave....

....the corporatists only win if we quit....they only win if we won't fight....develope a thicker skin and let their shit roll off you....

....if you won't stay for yourself, then stay for the team!