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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-20-07 01:41 PM
Original message
Freeper response to my "reply to all' response.
Received an e-mail chain letter from a well-meaning client. I guess he thought he was 'educating' me. Usually I don't do this, but I replied to all. Sorry, this is kind of long. It went like this:

Dr. Michael Hurd posts: The Chicago Tribune reported on its website that
he left a note in his dorm room that
included a rambling list of grievances. Citing unidentified sources, the
Tribune said he had recently shown troubling signs, including setting a
fire in a dorm room and stalking some women.

ABC, citing law enforcement sources, reported that the note, several pages long, explains Cho's actions and says, "You caused me to do this. "
Assuming all of these facts are true, I see a connection between these two paragraphs. On the one hand, we have a young man who does outrageous
things--set fire in a dorm room, stalking women--that in a more reasonable era would lead to immediate expulsion, if not legal prosecution. Since we're not in a reasonable era, with all the fear of crazy lawsuits and political incorrectness (let's not forget the "rights" of the mentally ill, including the violent), then of course there are excuses made all the way up the chain of command at the university. Then, from the point of view of this sick and twisted, evil young man, when he sees excuses made for him, what happens,
psychologically speaking? His sense of being a victim, the mentality of
all criminals, is massively reinforced. When he finally decides to end it all, what does he do? Blame others. "Others," after all, were supposed to give him a life. Others are responsible for all of his pain. Others must pay.

Others in Mr. Cho's life implicitly conceded this by not holding him
accountable for his outrageous behaviors. When you appease a completely
imbalanced, irrational person like this, he's prone to take his premise of victimhood to its logical conclusion....and, well, you can witness, with horror, the results.

Tragedies like this one don't happen in a vacuum. In all the months and
years of "expert" commentary to come, decrying the existence of guns and
the "lack of mental health services" even for those who obviously cannot be helped, I wish someone other than myself would focus on this.

Dr. Hurd

My respomse:
The man walked into a gun shop and bought 2 guns. No questions asked, no
background check, no criminal record check, probably wasn't even
fingerprinted (I was wrong about this). So it's OK to let a mentally unbalanced guy to buy guns?
Failure to act re:his past behavior had nothing to do with 'fear of being sued'. I had not heard that he set fire to a dorm. I need to verify that.
The 'stalking' involved taking cellphone photos of women. Certainly
annoying, a little creepy, but not criminal. So, is this "doctor' saying
anyone who isn't 'normal' by his definition belongs in jail? This 'doctor' comes to the conclusion that 'political correctness' is the reason this guy was allowed to remain loose and if only we had a 'reasonable society' he would have been in jail. I'm sure he thinks it's all liberals' fault. Then there's the inevitable nitwits spouting NRA rhetoric: "if only the students were all armed...if only one in 10 were armed, if only 1 in 20 were armed, this wouldn't have happened because the criminal doesn't know who's armed and would be too scared to blah, blah, blah..." The guy had a death wish. He didn't care if anyone else was armed. Had several others started shooting, who knows who's the criminal and who's trying to kill the criminal? Who's to say the "law abiding citizens (that's what the NRA calls anyone who gets a CCW)" would be expert marksmen? All NRA rhetoric is based on 'perfect world' type thinking. In a 'perfect world', Ted Nugent is standing next to you in line at the bank when it gets robbed. Being a 'law abiding citizen',
he is armed to the teeth and, even though the criminal s already have guns drawn, outdraws the criminals, fires 18 perfectly placed rounds into the scumbag robbers from 30 feet away. No one else is hurt and from then on, all robbers are scared to rob. Remember, about a third of police officers killed in the line of duty are killed with their own weapons. Being armed doesn't necessarily make you safer. Several years ago, a teacher disarmed a student who had just gone on a rampage by putting out his hand and saying "give me the gun, son." That's a true hero. Meanwhile, during another student rampage a bunch of 'law abiding citizens' ran to their trucks and grabbed their guns. By the time they got back, it was all over. The shooter had dropped his weapon, left the school and was leaving school grounds. The students knew who he was and he wouldn't have gotten far. Yet, that night on the news, the statement from a witness was "if they hadn't got their guns and stopped him, WHO KNOWS how many others, blah, blah blah.." In Detroit a few years ago, a female off-duty police officer was filling up her car with gas and saw a robbery in progress. The robber spotted her as she tried to draw her weapon and shot her dead. It's just as easy to say: if everyone is armed, and criminals know it, they will shoot first and ask "who's armed?" later.

And now......the well thought out, intelligent response from one of those on the list:

"F*ck You!"
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-20-07 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. an appropriate response to the *FU* comment --
you first.

:evilgrin:
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AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-20-07 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Or...
"That's just what I would expect from someone like you. You have once again proved my belief to be correct."
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ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-20-07 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
2. Did he send his response to everyone?
Sounds like this one might be that stupid.

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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-20-07 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Ooooh, I gotta check.
Naw, I think it was just to me.
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MindPilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-20-07 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
4. Are you sure it was a freeper?
Except for the unnecessary capitalization of "You" , there is good punctuation, correct spelling, and complete sentence structure. I don't think a freeper could have written that.
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-20-07 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
5. "In a 'perfect world', Ted Nugent is standing next to you in line at the bank when it gets robbed."
:rofl: That was awesome - and SO true. The NRA seriously thinks that all of these "law abiding citizens" carrying guns would have the marksmanship and training of the Special Forces or something.
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cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-20-07 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. That got me, too. Excellent.
We had a letter to the editor in our local rag the other day about why someone charging a police officer with a gun wasn't just shot in the leg. The writer was outraged at the cop. About 12 cops answered the letter that they are not sharpshooters, that most people don't realize how hard it is to even hit a moving target much less someones legs, and that they are trained to shoot at body mass in such situations.

Way too many Americans live in TV and Movieland.

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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-20-07 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. Send all the robbers to the same bank Ted Nugent patronizes
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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-20-07 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
6. Is the guy actually condescending towards mental illness?
Edited on Fri Apr-20-07 01:57 PM by EstimatedProphet
That's the way it looks to me. Does he not understand that Cho had mental illness? Maybe he doesn't know what that means. For the slow Republicans, that means he did not view reality the way the rest of us do. Making snide comments about the "lack of mental health care services" is just stupid, since it denies the only factor that really could have stopped this tragedy.
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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-20-07 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. "lack of mental health care services"
Remember, Repugs are responsible for "lack of mental health care services". In my state, our former Repulsive governor closed most of the large mental health facilities and gave the savings to his friends in the manufacturing business. Repugs consider mental health an entitlement.
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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-20-07 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. True, and that attitude is coming back to bite people in the ass
I can't put into words how shortsighted Repubs are. they think they can cut away all of society's common goods until we're all living in a little box with noting but Soylent Green to eat, and expect that no one will get fed up with it.

Cut way back on mental health, and you have mental health issues untreated. It's blatantly obvious, but they think there's no problem at all.
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cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-20-07 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
7. I am so very tired of that standard response when you challenge someone's programming. I must admit
it has caused me to drop out of discussions (so I guess it works, in it's own way). Being raised in a home of discussions and ideas, it's hard to deal with zombies. And depressing to see just how many of them there are out there.

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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-20-07 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
9. This "doctor" isn't in the medical field, I'm sure.
Our country doesn't give a damn about mental illness because they don't understand it. Tragedies like this only underline how mental illness is so misunderstood. When will we learn that our country needs to do a lot more in providing adequate medical treatment for the mentally ill? Putting one's head in the sand doesn't solve problems.

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-20-07 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
11. "We're getting tired of prying your guns from your cold, dead fingers."
Great thought in another thread here.
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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-20-07 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. I wish MSM would pay more attention to whether guns used in crimes
are legally owned or stolen. Just last week, a woman here pulled her legally owned and licensed gun in traffic and shot at a car that was forcefully trying to merge in front of her (aggressive Michigan drivers). She said she "felt threatened". It seems she is unstable, but was still able to get CCW.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-20-07 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
13. LOL!
You won the argument if that's all they had to say. :)
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-20-07 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
16. You make a very good point.
Edited on Fri Apr-20-07 02:23 PM by Dhalgren
Suppose a shooter begins a rampage on the second floor of a building. Several students on the second floor pull their hidden weapons and begin a shoot out with the "psycho". Students on the third floor and the first floor hear the shooting, draw their weapons and rush to the second floor. The third floor heroes start shooting it out with two guys in the math lab, the first floor responders begin to exchange fire with a girl and a guy just out side the east stairwell. Where is the original shooter? How many will be killed in this scenario? When the cops come, who do they "take out"? Yeah, everyone should carry pistols....:eyes:
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Sweet Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-20-07 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
17. Is the response from a man?
Tell him okay, but only if he'll bring the box turtle. :)
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