Let's start with something we all agree on

One important factor that unites us all as DUers - or, from my vantage point, it damn well better - is that we want the Democratic majority in Washington, DC to move our nation as far away from the George W. Bush paradigm as possible.

This one affirmation transcends all claims and counter-claims involving whiners, compromisers, purists, apostates, ponies, and just being sick of one's fellow liberals and progressives.

Starting with our earlier presupposition, we all see the current state of health insurance as something for which the Bush administration shares a lot of the blame, and we want reforms to move health insurance away from the Bush paradigm.

Some of us are truly convinced that the current Senate agreement, which reportedly jettisons the public option in favor of a Medicare buy-in for patients 55 and older, is in fact a continuation of the old GOP paradigm in which the insurance companies continue to wield the power of life and death over their policyholders.

We continue a push for an actual public option (if not single-payer) because we want the nation to move forward and for taxpayers to get the healthcare access they truly deserve.

So if you disagree with us and have a legitimate reason for doing so, that's fine. But don't hate us for trying to implement a scorched-earth policy towards the aftermath of the Bush administration.

Wow i thought only teabaggers didn't know this...

Last I heard there wasn't even going to be a law that prohibits dropping policy holders for pre-existing conditions.

By the next time this comes up again, in 20 or 30 years, none of us are going to give a crap because we'll either be dead or on medicare and the insurance companies will be even more powerful and so wealthy that they could stage a coup and literally oust any government that threatens their healthcare system.

They want to maintain it.

This OP being written, as I thoughtt that obama might possibly end the Corproate Take over of our nation, with all that it entails. Now I am so sad that I voted for this man. (Or that I didn't have more clues as to how Complete the Big Tent of the One Money Party happens to be.)

With the DLC, it's always about THEM, even when they claim it's not.

Many posters are defenders of the "radical status quo"--i.e. extraordinary measures by the government to maintain the status quo. The bankster bailouts being the paradigmatic example.

I am luv-ving your "radical status quo" term.

There is no otber way to interpret it...

His assertion has to do with Bush policies, of which Part D and the "no negotiation" is part.

...so take a deep breath and try again.

"Some of us are truly convinced that the current Senate agreement, which reportedly jettisons the public option in favor of a Medicare buy-in for patients 55 and older, is in fact a continuation of the old GOP paradigm in which the insurance companies continue to wield the power of life and death over their policyholders."

How does expanding Medicare help the Insurance companies?

...anyone who is under 55 years of age will be forced to buy insurance policies from the same insurance companies that have made healthcare the mess that it is today. Failure to buy insurance from a private corporation may result in stiff fines or even jail.

On the other hand, if we had the Medicare buy-in and a real public option, that would be fine, because then Americans would have the option of not supporting Big Insurance and fattening the pockets of its CEOs.

Yet you would rather the bill die if there is no PO?

Here in Texas, driving is considered a privilege, not a right. Therefore, the courts can rationalize that if I want to drive on public roads in Texas, I must carry liability insurance on me and keep in current, otherwise I cannot drive.

If an individual mandate is signed into law, one of the conditions of my freedom as an American citizen is that I must purchase a private health insurance plan, no matter how bad it is. If I do not, I face fines and possibly imprisonment. My freedom should not be contingent upon whether I am willing to fatten the pockets of Big Insurance so that they can continue to torque the system by squeezing the average American with higher premiums and diminishing access to health care. And that is why a public option is so necessary to the debate. If I "gotta serve somebody," I want a real choice as to where my healthcare dollars go - to a private corporation, which is governed by a CEO and a Board of Directors, or to the government, in which I am supposed to have a voice.

Does that help?

You aren't going to reach them any more than you're going to reach neocon wingnuts.

The telltale sign here is that they are gleefully proclaiming the absurd notion that they're going to scuttle our agenda and their actions aren't their responsibilty, it's all "our leadership's" fault. Our leaders could have prevented this "if only."

The same kind of dysfunction at play here as the wife beater proclaiming that it's his wife's fault that he beats her.

They're just getting started here Derby378. It's going to be a long time until they hit bottom, and they're going to drag us down with them.

We're going to get shellacqued in 2010--look for President Sarah Palin in 2012.

If your choice is only the gov't plan or nothing, it's not really an option, is it?

My head has exploded over the machinations of creating the final HCR bill. I don't know if Medicare for 55+ is an option someone could choose among various choices, or the only one available to the otherwise uninsurable. I've heard you can get it at 55 only if you do not already have insurance (Dana Milbank said this.).

So I don't know what side I come down on on the po and I doubt I'm the only one. I want single payer. I'll settle for something close. I detest everything Bush, as well. If you have ideas for how we can get from point A to point B, people can call me a troll or a hater or a Teabagger or Tiger Woods' fire hydrant if they want, but I will fight along side you.

:toast:

... that we then have to live with. I understand the anger, but as a mindset it can be limiting.

Hekate

What I don't understand is why the scorched-earth crowd directs it at me simply because I don't want "the amountof destruction that entails."

How do you deal with these people Hekate?

He is open to voting for the compromise depending on the details re expanded Medicare...