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fishnfla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 04:54 PM
Original message
Americaleft radio host Thom Hartmann: progressives should align themselves with the teabaggers
Edited on Thu Dec-10-09 04:54 PM by fishnfla
From the cant make this shit up desk: On his radio show this aftrenoon, Thom was making the case that progressives should share common cause with the teabaggers. Because they are both populist movements, was his specious reasoning. I think he was serious, he is not much for satire
Luckily one of his wiser callers was quick to point out that on just about every issue abortion, religion, guns, health care,gay rights, etc, they share completely opposite platforms. Apparantly the only thing they have in common is their hatred for all things Obama. And for the teabaggers its only 'cuz he's black.

Could you see a combined protest from these 2 groups? The progressives could help the baggers with their spelling of " Muslim socialist"

ETA so much for this being a DLC meme
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. they might agree with progressives on the Wall Street bailouts. That's it
the point he was probably trying to make is there should be a way to get to those people, but our elected Dems make it more difficult by cheerleading the worst republican ideas.
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whatchamacallit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. That's about the only common ground, and their opposition is only because it's Obama
They seemed perfectly happy to be raped by Bush.
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fishnfla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Oh yeah and the progressives should turn the baggers hatred of immigrants
into a force for good.

Yeah harness the racism
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FormerDittoHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-11-09 06:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
56. It seems he was channeling CHOMSKY who was saying the same thing in November
http://www.zcommunications.org/znet/viewArticle/23178

If you look at those people and listen to them on talk radio, these are people with real grievances. I listen to talk radio a lot and it's kind of interesting. If you can sort of suspend your knowledge of the world and just enter into the world of the people who are calling in, you can understand them. I've never seen a study, but my sense is that these are people who feel really aggrieved. These people think, "I've done everything right all my life, I'm a god-fearing Christian, I'm white, I'm male, I've worked hard, and I carry a gun. I do everything I'm supposed to do. And I'm getting shafted." And in fact they are getting shafted. For 30 years their wages have stagnated or declined, the social conditions have worsened, the children are going crazy, there are no schools, there's nothing, so somebody must be doing something to them, and they want to know who it is. Well Rush Limbaugh has answered - it's the rich liberals who own the banks and run the government, and of course run the media, and they don't care about you—they just want to give everything away to illegal immigrants and gays and communists and so on.

Well, you know, the reaction we should be having to them is not ridicule, but rather self-criticism. Why aren't we organizing them?


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Cary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
2. Doesn't matter.
Our movement is dead. I hope you enjoyed it while it lasted.
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fishnfla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I'd like to carve out the extremes on both ends of the political spectrum
have them make their own party

Born Again(st)Obama!
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
23. at least you would know what they stand for.
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clear eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Un-uh. We're just getting warmed up. n/t
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Cary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
27. I'm sure you are.
Scorched earth--you're going to need a lot of heat.
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Which movement is that?
The one that you and the OP are doing, starting these goddamn stupid threads to bash REAL Democrats and shill for that fucking angry dwarf Emanuel?
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Cary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
24. Who cares?
You're done. I'm done. I hope you enjoy President Palin.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. You should start a thread about that.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
7. I heard that today
I turned him off and went to the Alternative Music station.

No more Thom Hartmann on my radio.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
8. First we make peace with the teabaggers
then we change the world..
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Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
10. Hartmann has no love for teabaggers.
I was listening to his show, but missed this particular gem. I'd guess that he was trying to find some common ground, but stepped on his tongue. There is no more knowledgeable unapologetic liberal on radio than Thom, so I'll give him a pass on this one.

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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. Me too. I listen every day and missed this.
But I will definitely give him a break on this one. Thom has been a staunch critic of the teabaggers and this comment makes zero sense to me.
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fishnfla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #19
28. I was surprised I thought it was a joke
I got the sense that he was reaching. The first caller knocked the idea out of the park, he took one more call on it and switched gears

In that second call he even tries to harness the racism: baggers hate the corporations 'cuz their run by Jews
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Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #19
29. He was probably trying to prove some kind of point but failed.
Sometimes that sort of thing happens when you talk/write for a living. Thom is in NO WAY a right-winger, so I feel OK in writing off one single comment (in a wealth of thousands of hours of thoughtful progressive discussion).

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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #10
49. No need to "give him a pass" the OP didn't listen to what Thom said..
He said we have a lot of common complaints, but the problem with getting together and getting things done is the baggers all get their marching orders from Rush, and if we could remove them from the false information highway, and get the truth to them then we could come together and fight for common interests.


I have no love for baggers either, but Hartmann is right, the right wing bullhorn is designed specifically to keep us divided, to make sure that the un-informed stay that way. The War On Christmas is the perfect example. There is no war, it's just a ploy to convince Christians that they are being insulted if someone says Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas.
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Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #49
54. That's kind of what I thought.
Without listening to the audio, I'd guess that the OP misinterpreted Thom's point. (Not a slam, BTW. I just know that Hartmann would never try to align himself with RW idiots.)
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FarLeftFist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
11. Highly highly unlikely.
Teabaggers are regressives.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
13. Absolute Stupidity
There is no common ground with a bunch of neanderthal creationist who worship Ron Paul. The only issue they are useful on is the Federal Reserve.
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
14. The root of teabaggery was planted & nurtured by GOP exiles from K street.
It's just as real as professional wrestling & network "reality" shows.

People who dress up like Klingons and whack at each other with bat'leths for fun have more credibility.
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Blue Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
15. No thanks
The teabaggers do what they do for totally different reasons.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
16. what a crock of shit. Idiotic.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
17. Well I actually have gone to a Tea Bagger Rally
as street theater... billionaires for wealth care.

And while the cartoons you all expect to find are there... there are also people who went to that rally because they are pissed off... they want some change, they heard of it in their Clear Channel Station (no they will not run adds for... peace and justice okay)... and they actually have more in common with you than you believe.

And that is the point Hartmann was making... There is a populist anger in the country... but hey, why do the work it might challenge the cartoon image we have of the tea baggers. Yes. the movement was started by astro turfers... but I have the sneaky that it is gonna bite them astro turfers in the damn fuckin' ass.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. oh please.
the teabagger movement is not benign and the vast majority of its participants are filled with hate for those very things I value and filled with ignorance.

Cartoon image? I don't think so. And no, it's not going to bite the astro turfers involved in the butt.
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Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Hey, don't you want to make an angry, knee jerk reaction like the poster avove you?
How dare you actually listen to the radio host and describe what he was actually saying. What are you, some kind of teabagger/DLC/commie/poutrage/whateverthefuck insult that might throw off the conversation?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Guilty as charged
some folks are invested in deepening divisions... and you have to ask WHY?

Granted we met some folks who fit every part of the cartoon we hold so dear round these parts. But we also met a few who were there because of the Clear Media Channel commercials... and wanted to know what they could do. Those are the ones that Hartmman was talking about. Hell they are the ones we managed to get some productive conversations with.

They are low information voters and the street theater helped to reach to them. The organizers, not so much. Hell they even said, we have a Democratic Underground Liberal Contingent here... like we were the enemy.

:-)

Which in their mind... we were.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #21
31. Oh and the poster above me is also invested in the divisions
you got to wonder why the DLC is invested in that?

I mean... movement politics can actually challenge them... and I mean all of them.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #31
38. no, I'm for finding common ground where it really exists
There's simply not enough common ground between teabaggers and progressives and liberals. The teabaggers are far too invested in racism and far right ideology.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #17
30. Color me unsurprised.
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Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
18. If we can get some tea baggers to understand that they have been screwed...
..over by the banksters and the "free market" liars like Tom Friedman and the Koch family and others, if we can get some tea baggers toi realize that the corporatists that run the republican party are the ones who shipped their jobs off shore, if we can help some tea baggers to understand that their media lies to them, then we can combine their power with ours and get some progressives elected to take back the power from the corporatists. That was his message. it was very clear, if you had bothered to listen.

The idea that some parts of the tea bagger "movement" can be co-opted to elect progressives has spark some fear in the corporatists. Surely, those teabaggers operating solely out of fear or hate or both, the whackos, are lost. But there are some that can be reached on an issue-by-issue basis. It ain't just liberals who vote for Bernie Sanders, for example.

So, Thom has talked about reaching out to the more sane teabaggers for months now, and RW extremists are scared about it. that is why all of a sudden there are posts distorting that message appearing on DU. That is why all of the sudden there are posters accusing DUers of being teabaggers.

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fishnfla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #18
36. that was a late spin
didn't help when he pointed out the baggers mostly hate corporations because they are run by the jewish cabal
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Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #36
44. As I posted in another thread, post a transcript.
Your Fox News approach to quoting Thom Hartmann is not sufficient.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #18
41. you probably can get 5% of them- but not much more
And you don't seem to know what kind of candidates the teabaggers are backing. As for striking fear into the corporatists that teabaggers and progressives will align to elect progressives, where's your evidence for that?

As for Bernie, as I live here in Vermont and not only in Vermont but in the Northeast Kingdom, I think I can tell you that the mentality of Vermonters, even those who aren't liberals is nothing like the teabaggers. For one thing, they aren't religious. I know a lot of "rednecks", and none of them are wingnuts for god.

And no, I don't believe for one nanosecond that RW extremists are even a tiny bit scared of this particular delusion.
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NightWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
22. eh, you missed the message.
I believe what he said is that we should embrace the populist movement behind the individual teabaggers'.


Thom is a big proponent of "movement politics" Be it the Peace Movement or Environmental Movement, et cetera. We should take a position on a topic and run on that. Simply electing Democrats for democrats' sake only gets us more DLCers and establishement Democrats. We should be seeking out candidates who favor our individual positions and pushing hard for them (ie, Kucinich and the movement for Peace).

I too, am a fan of Movement Politics. Movements get things done. Whilest we saw somewhat of a movement behind Obama, we were not focused on anything aside from the "Change Movement" that we were sold. We didnt know what we really wanted aside from "change". Change from eight years of wars based on terror, er, I mean strike that. We wanted something different, and we got it. Once we focus on what we want, we can form a movement to help bring that to life.

I dont think Thom was embracing the idiocracy behind the teabaggers, but the idea of a movement.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Yes. We need to tap into the populist anger. nt
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fishnfla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. racist anger
armed racist anger

that'll get shit done, pronto
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NightWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. we need to tap into the Populist angst not the racist angst
not everyone who dislikes Obama does so because he is half black. Many, yes but not all.

Or we can keep getting railroaded by corporate interests and be left to argue white v. black when the real struggle is Rich v. Working Poor. The DLC represents the millionaire corporate sector of the Democratic Party and they are winning over the Progressive wing of the Party.

At least the teabaggers are in the streets raising a stink.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
32. RW meme alert! "hatred for all things Obama"
every time we criticized Bush POLICIES, the wingnuts said we were just Bush haters.
Same crap in your post.
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Cary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #32
47. That's not what you're being told.
Not even close.

I'd try to explain it to you again, but I know you don't want to hear. Mark my words. We're going down to defeat and it's you people who are killing us.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. that was a quote
I didn't write it.


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fishnfla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
34. The only solace I have
If Hillary was elected all this hatin' would be much, much, worse. I am glad she was spared that
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Beacho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
35. I'd rather chew my own tongue off and drown in my own blood
These are the same pieces of shit that called me a traitor for not paying proper obeisance to the Chimpenfuhrer. You want me to align myself with somebody that carries signs like "Spay And Neuter Liberals"? No thanks, but they are welcome to take the tinfoiler contingent that resides on the Left. Good riddance!
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
39. AHAHAHAHAAAHAAAHAHAA.
What common cause? Being pissed off for no particularly good reason?
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fishnfla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. The prgressives need to somehow channels the inner reason of the baggers
and bring these tools into the light!

The first step is to list all the reasons to hate Obama, besides his race.

Its a steep learning curve
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Cary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. Fishnfla, I like you.
We could use a sane poster like you at my board:

http://www.newsrake.org/index.php
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Cary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. Pretty much.
How about the common cause of reckless flailing?

Farting in windstorms?

The French Revolution?

Beirut 1983?
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azmouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
43. Thom should cut the dose.
That is insane.
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Cary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. Any worse than others you've seen here of late?
Sanity is in short supply at the moment.
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azmouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Sadly no.
Edited on Thu Dec-10-09 05:58 PM by azmouse
Thom's show has gotten almost impossible to listen to in the last few weeks.
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Cary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. And what's going on here?
I'm shocked. I'm absolutely shocked and appalled.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-11-09 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #52
58. One word: betrayal
teabaggers feel it- and more and more on the economic front- progressives feel it.

In point of fact we DO have common sets of enemies- though of course, the vast majority of teabaggers aren't bright enough to grasp that fact.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
50. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Cary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. I didn't want to use it, and still don't.
But my goodness. Sadly, yes. I can't believe it. I really can't believe it.

Welcome to Anti-DemocraticPartyUnderground.com.
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MerryBlooms Donating Member (940 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
55. Yeah, that was a strange segment. n/t
.
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-11-09 06:57 AM
Response to Original message
57. Like attmepting to pet an angry rattlesnake! Thom, take off those rose-colored glasses!
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-11-09 07:05 AM
Response to Original message
59. From a pure strategy standpoint, it makes sense.
If for no other reason than to scare the bejeezus out of the corporate-controlled establishment.

I have a long view of this, too. In short, the only way to campaign reform is to unseat incumbents, and/or undermine their corporatist ownership any way possible. Details here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7006728&mesg_id=7007012
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-11-09 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
60. Thom is wrong on this one. Teabaggers hate socialism, while lefties love socialism.
Teabaggers and lefties aren't on the same page!

They are diametrically opposed to one another!

Lefties want people to be happy, fed, housed, clothed.

Teabaggers could give a damn if people are living on the street naked, miserable and starving.

Teabaggers are fuckwads who only think of themselves.

They can fuck off! :puke:

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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-11-09 07:29 AM
Response to Original message
61. If you drew a Venn diagram of the concerns of the Progressives and the concerns of Teabaggers,
you would find some overlap. I was actually thinking of that when I posted this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7178581&mesg_id=7178581

The teabaggers have been incredibly effective in mobilizing small numbers to great advantage (of course with the help of the corporate media) even though they stand for nothing they can articulate except generalized rage. They are a mob with pitchforks and torches and their anger is directed at "government" in general and Obama in particular, although they were content to stand on the sidelines while the pre-eminent Usurper-in-Charge, George W. Bush got the fascist ball rolling. And of course, some of them are just plain old fashioned ignorant racists. But, if you sifted out the real racists and paid rabble rousers, you would find a core group of people who feel, like many Progressives, that their government has taken a really wrong turn and left them behind. The challenge would be to break through the wedge issue/Limbaugh-Hannity hate barrier, and somehow educate them that a responsible and responsive government is better than no government.



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whistler162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-11-09 07:31 AM
Response to Original message
62. Scratches head and wonders "Haven't they already?"
at least that is my take from most of the sp calleed "progressive" posts I wade through on this board!

The message I see is "We must get back to the status queue of a party not in power, NOW!!!!!!"
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