Are there still "potery barn" DU'ers?

I was just wondering a few things.

Don't be mistaken by my low post count. I've been here since before the war began (in one form or another)

I'm just wondering if there are still any DU'ers who feel like since we "broke" Iraq we're obligated to stay there and fix it? I heard that sentiment a lot in the first two years of the war. It was the notion that, no we didn't believe that we should have gone to war, but after we were already there we had a responsibility to stay there because we needed to "fix" what we broke.

I'm just wondering if anyone here is still willing to admit they felt that way.

And I'm wondering if anyone here is willing to admit that they once felt that way, but now realize that they were wrong.

As for me, I can't say that I ever completely felt that way, but I certainly wrestled with the idea. I wondered if after we "wared" the country into the ground we didn't have a duty to stick around and rebuild it. But I quickly realized that notion was misguided, and our sticking around would only make things worse.

How about everyone else?

I say if you break it you buy it.
If you drop Willy Pete on the store, you go to jail.

and the debt is huge both in dollars and reputation.

But quickly realized that this inept administration wasn't even capable of fixing a damn thing even if they wanted to. I don't believe good come from evil anyway.

In fact they apparently only seek to make matters worse in all situations.

That is why they chose their best breaker, GWB.

if you break it, you own the reputation and guilt for having broken it.

But if someone broke into my house, drank my liquor cabinet dry, threw a wild party, killed two of my kids, raped my daughter, and half burned my house down, I wouldn't say, "you break it, you own it, so you better clean up before you go."

No.

I would simply say get the fuck out.

And that's what the Iraqis are saying to us, but no one in Washington wants to hear.

and sadly, it so appropriate.

:thumbsup:

I wanted us out even before we went in.

That's been a good excuse for the bushits ..who never want out.

some type of reparations.

First and foremost we must relinquish any and all rights to the Iraqi oil.

The country must be divided into three partitions. With the oil revenues of the entire country equally split as to the populations of each partition. There should be a central government to be accountable for the oil revenues and government. Each partition may make their own laws, preferably as the result of voting from the citizens of each province.

Once the property of Iraq has been restored to the Iraqis...we should then collectively get down on our knees and beg for forgiveness.

more than Iraqis.

It's easier to bribe and/or push around the government of a small country than of a medium one.

On the reparations, I agree. We should give them every penny every company that lobbied for this war or got a no bid contract has.

You have three major sects that cannot reconcile amongst themselves. For the most part, they are geographically separated. We have the Shiites, the Sunnis, and the Kurds. In Baghdad and immediate surrounding areas you have the sects inter-habituating

The country's major oil deposits are in the north and south. Which leaves the middle of the country with an unequal share of the country's resources. Which would screwn the Sunnis. You cannot diss the Sunnis and have peace in Iraq.

IN A PERFECT WORLD:

What needs to be done at this point is that the oil and mineral rights of Iraq need to be returned to that country. The proceeds of the oil, that so rightfully belongs to the people of Iraq, should be evenly divided as to the population of each division. Each individual Iraqi citizen shall receive their remittance on a monthly basis. All contracts for rebuilding must consider internal (ie Iraqi) bid first. And must give Iraqi nationals the benefit of all doubt in all reconstruction contracts.


Monsanto must remove all presence from the country. They must take their seeds and check the fuck out.

Each and every foreign business interest must leave upon demand of any Iraqi national.

I will have more later

Yes of course we owe reparations. However the dumbass pottery barn rule insists that we have to remain in control of Iraq murdering boatloads of Iraqis with the excuse that since we made this mess we are obligated to continue making the mess until magically the mess vanishes.

It ought to be formally known as the 'bull in the pottery barn rule'. Having brought a bull into the pottery barn, one is obligated to keep the bull in the store until it stops breaking all the pottery. That restatement would make it clear that it is complete bullshit.

But early on there was a lot of debate about whether or not we needed to keep troops there to help "fix" what we broke. That's what I was referring to mainly.

I couldn't agree more however, that there needs to be reparations.

their country and their lives. If 'WE' were to reverse the roles, I'm certain Americans would feel the same. If the USA were to 'rebuild' Iraq, it would ONLY for financial gain, NOT because it was the right thing to do. 'WE' broke Iraq and THEY are NOT going to let 'US' fix it.

The money is gone. It was stolen in the biggest money laundering scam in the history of the planet.

I'm now firmly in the GET THE FUCK OUT NOW camp.

Powell's pottery barn analogy is a RW talking point back in the days when he thought he might have a political future.

let's fix America FIRST.

I would hope that no one thinks that our military can "fix it" by continuing the occupation that drives so much of the violence. There are also non-military ways to continue our involvement, and I believe that if we gave an Iraqi government a fraction of what we spend shooting at them, they could do quite well fixing what we broke.

If there must be peacekeepers, let them be UN, under a non-US commander. And get the fucking mercenaries out.

The current people in power are so fucking incompetant they just keep breaking it more and more. soon there won't be anything left to put back together. Now if Kerry had won I think he is intelligent enough that he could have rallied the world behind us to assist in helping stop the violence through negotiation and he could have really led the way in helping Iraqi's rebuild Iraq.

spelling flames are stupid, but that is such a glaring error it is hard to get past it.

The pottery barn does not think that the pottery barn rule makes any sense.

But not "stay and fix it". Staying only continues to break more and more and more. Fix it by leaving and by massive reparations.

as well as destroy the store and detain and torture the owners, you should go to prison


and also make restitution

but you don't gotta be in the pottery barn to make restitution.

some kind of world organization of the EU, China, Japan, Russia, Canada, etc. to take over when we withdraw our troops. They could get a peace military setup, with participating nations contributing the peacekeepers and pay them with Iraqi oil money. The sectarian violence will stop immediately upon our withdrawal and the country administered by the participants. In other words, a world Marshal Plan. But first we, the U.S., have to impeach Bush/Cheney gang.

to clean up Bush's mess?

What incentive do they have?

and Haliburton can help.

:rofl:

Just kidding!! :rofl:

I've never even stepped in a PB! ;)

Just for posterity!

Exiled in America (666 posts)

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Sat Apr-21-07 04:15 AM

;)

It's not that we have to fix it, but we should focus on making Iraq an acceptable place before we leave. I think the leave right now strategies are a good way to deal with Iraq, which is basically setting up a civil war and destabilizing the region even more.

What we really need is competent leadership to help us succeed in Iraq. The problem is this current administration has no fucking clue what they are doing, and ignore the advice of the generals and other experts. They still act like freedom is on the march and that staying the course is still the way to go.

We fucked up in Iraq, and our government needs to change their strategy to address the current situation. George Bush still can't admit any of his mistakes, and that's the problem in a nutshell. He could at least follow the Iraq study groups suggestions instead of doing the same failing strategy.

I feel like the only way that Iraq is going to get any better is for a democrat to be elected in 2008. Even a competent republican would do, since this administration is a complete miserable failure.

That would be like trying to fix the broken pottery with a hammer.

If the Iraqis want us to leave, we need to leave. But we owe them. A lot.

And i really don't like talk i hear from congress that 'Iraqis need to take responsibility' as if they were a bunch of lazy fuck ups and their decimated country has NOTHING at all to do with *our* irresponsibility.