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LeftyFingerPop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 05:13 PM
Original message
Two simple and serious questions.
Edited on Sun Dec-13-09 05:13 PM by LeftyFingerPop
In a Democratic society, why is lobbying legal?

Why is lobbying pressure allowed to over ride the will of the people as determined by polls?
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. Don't they hide behind the First Amendment?
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LeftyFingerPop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I don't know...
Hence my question.

On the surface, lobbying seems to turn a Democracy into some different form of government.
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. I think that this is what they argued when they were fighting Obama's attempts to squash some of
them.

Here's an article:

""What disqualifies lobbyists from exercising their First Amendment rights?" said J. Keith Kennedy, a top lobbyist for the Washington firm Baker Donelson."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-03-27-obama-lobbyists_N.htm
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LuvNewcastle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
3. Because corporations are people
and money is speech.:eyes:
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LeftyFingerPop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Well the thing is, it is not just corporations, it is special interest groups also...
who have the will and resources to apply political pressure.

This seems to negate any true democratic process.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
4. My feeling is the problem isn't the lobbyist. It's the cash that those lobbyist are allowed to
throw around.
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LeftyFingerPop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. I agree, if a lobbyist wants to plead a case to a politician, that is good because then...
anyone can lobby. No monetary resources are needed.

The fact that the common man/woman cannot lobby, in my mind, negates democratic process.
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. why should it be illegal. They represent a specified faction.
What is wrong with that? We have unions representing certain groups. Congressional representives represent a specific faction of people.
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LeftyFingerPop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Because of the money...
It is unfair unless everyone has the means to lobby.
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. actually I hate the lobbyists - just wanted to play devil's advocate and
test the waters.

That money . . . and what it can buy. It is obscene . . . and so injurious to the U.S.

But I don't know how you can ever stop those in congress from being bought. Have we reached a point of no return - I often wonder.
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Dr. Strange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. Everyone does have the means to lobby.
What they don't have is the guarantee that their representative will listen to them as much as if they were handed some cash.
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
7. It has more to do with control of lobbying
When one group or individual is given preference then that is where you run into problems. Control the money and then you might be able to have a fairer government.
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LeftyFingerPop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Agreed. n/t
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
9. corporations are persons, ding a ling! nt
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
13. b/c our Senators practice extreme capitalis i.e., "pay me or eff off."
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LeftyFingerPop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. And that is why lobbying, in its current form, should be illegal. n/t
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HopeHoops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
15. MONEY TALKS!
And Congress is full of money whores.
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LeftyFingerPop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Exactly, and that is why we do not have anything that resembles a democracy. n/t
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lob1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
17. Lobbying isn't the problem. Money exchanging hands is the problem.
No one should be able to give a politician a nickel without going to jail. Elections should be paid by us, the people.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
18. Non-profits have lobbyists too
If the Sierra Club and AARP can hire people to represent their members' interests in Congress, how can they say it's illegal for a for-profit company to do the same thing.

Even if we did away with lobbyists and PAC's, we would never be able to do away with the right of a CEO to speak to a Senator. The reason we have registered lobbyists in the first place is to try to keep track of these people; and the reason we have PACs is to give citizens an opportunity to use a strength in numbers strategy against business interests.

We need to reform the system, but we also need to look at our own interests while we do it.
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WT Fuheck Donating Member (392 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
19. The US is not a democratic society.
It is a capitalist oligarchy.
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Old Codger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
22. That is spelled
Edited on Sun Dec-13-09 06:58 PM by Old Codger
$democrat$, $republican$ and $lobbyi$t... they are all pronounced MONEY. It is really that simple...
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
23. freedom of speech
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
24. 1st Amendment and corporate personhood
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DefenseLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
25. I don't blame the lobbyists
I blame the politicians that they buy. Lobbyists would have no power at all if no one listened to them.
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