Is there going to be anything left in the HCR bill worth voting on/for?

If the Dems cave to Lieberman on medicare, and there is no public option, then what will be left in the bill?

It's over.

A last second pony amendment.

No preexisting conditions, no unequal premiums for women, no dropping the sick, no limits on payouts, no skimming off the top, and on, and on, and on...

Especially when they remove the requirement that 90% be paid out. Its a giveaway to the insurance companies.

When rates start to go up even worse, everyone will realize what a disservice this bill did.

Someone please show me the link if I'm wrong...

and there might be some provision that pre-existing conditions can't be used as an excuse to deny coverage, but even that might be in doubt.

So no, not much worth saving. It looks like a good bill for the republicans to run on and use against Democrats and win heavily next year however.

This ends up as an incremental reform effort, which is unbelievably disappointing, given our majorities.

But I would ask the "kill the bill" folks if they'd be happy with the fact that killing it now would mean more than 30+ million people (about half of them on Medicaid) NOT get insurance.

I bet in these tough times they simply won't be able to afford it. I doubt there will be 30 million extra covered. Expanding healthcare through expensive medical insurance isn't going to work.

And the rest receive subsidies and group rates. Still expensive, but drastically less than the individual market right now.

Exactly.

to sell a policy to people with preexisting conditions but there is the possibility they may be allowed to deny coverage for said preexisting condition.

If you expand Medicaid eligibility but do it without an employer mandate, then rather than really denting the number of uninsured, Medicaid expansion just shifts a bunch of people from employer-based plans onto Medicaid. Which also further strains state budgets, since they're now on the hook for covering people's health care.

Walmart employees are, in many states, the largest group on the Medicaid roles. Use a corporate tax or a tax on the upper percentiles. Expand Medicaid and dump the rest of this bill. Here are the people who will benefit from the current legislation:

1) Those with preexisting conditions who can well afford the premiums but are denied due to preexisting.
2) Those people who are at 101-133% of FPL. Those at 100% already get Medicaid

Those are the only people I see benefitting. The rest, even those who qualify for subsidies are going to find the premiums a burden. And that's as it stands now. GOK what more we will compromise away due to the tyranny of Lieberman by the end of the week.

but 2010 and 2012 is going to be a lot of fun...for the Republicans.

nothing for me, plenty for the insurance companies like it being mandatory.

elimination of lifetime caps, expanded Medicaid eligibility-estimates that what remains would cut number of uninsured by more than half

If you are a couple making $58,280 per year, you're gonna pay whatever the hell that insurance cartel wants to charge you. My husband and I had to drop ours when we couldn't afford $1200 per month any more. At $58,280 per year that's 25% of your income. That's more than a house note in some areas. You know any people on that kind of income who could afford a second home?

This is not reform. There won't be one thing left worth fighting for.

Unless they want to go to reconciliation, this battle is already lost.

Truth be told, it was over the moment Obama unilaterally removed single payer even from the discussion.

Every Amerian will suffer if Obama signs a bill that mandates all American's health into the hands of these uber-corporations.