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Sgent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:36 PM
Original message
There is no starting over
either we pass something, or we condemn 100,000's of people to death, disability, or bankruptcy (see IOM & Harvard studies on the lack of health insurance).

If we don't pass something this year/early next, the issue is dead for at least a decade.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. Then let it be dead for at least a decade
Still better than the piece of shit they're ending up with.
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. Slogan contest?
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 09:39 PM by Kurt_and_Hunter
I actually agree with some of the implied arguments, but not presented in the genral form of Bush arguing to invade Iraq.
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Libertas1776 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
3. And if we pass something
the issue will still be dead, only now we'll be stuck with this abomination called "reform."
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Joe the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
18. Exactly, either way it's not looking good. n/t
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
4. Ok, Chicken Little. Did you see that slogan on a DLC pamphlet?
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nemo137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
5. The argument goes that the process is so overwhelmingly poisoned now
that there's no chance of redemption. I'm taking the Silver analysis as a ray of hope, and as it stands now, this bill will do something which is a start.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
6. Don't try to sell me that shit. From another poster, earlier, I think this sums it up quite well:

1. No Single Payer

2. No public option

3. No expanded Medicare coverage

4. No drug re-importation

5. No cost controls

6. No renegotiation of drug prices

7. Capped annual coverage for care

8. Individual mandated coverage

9. Anti-trust exemption for insurance companies

10. A tax on middle class insurance plans

11. Taxes that start up in January, but benefits that don’t start until 2014


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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. what i don't understand- what problems do the repukes have with it now...?
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 09:46 PM by dysfunctional press
it could very well have been written almost identically by any one of them.

although- i guess that they'd probably scrap the subsidies...and when they come into power in 2010, they will.
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TCJ70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. They still gain political capital...
...by defeating it and branding it a purely democratic bill. Even though it's gone from healthcare reform to healthcare handout. It doesn't matter as long as they don't vote for it.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. They would have never passed the other (good) reforms in the bill.
They wouldn't have even considered them.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. and they'll probably gut those things in 2010, if not the whole bill.
so what's the point of crapping on the public with this p.o.s. in the first place...?
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Because minus the mandate, it doesn't crap on the public.
There are good reforms in the bill.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. for now, maybe...
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 10:07 PM by dysfunctional press
but the pukes have until 2014 to change a lot of it- and they will.
and they'll get a start on it in 13 short months.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. 10 and 11 are Republican talking points.
And you left out the good parts of the bill.

Overall I think the bill sucks, but there is more good than bad.
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. all true
taxes insurance benefits for many middle class Americans. Taxes start right away meager benefits start in 2014. all true. this bill sucks,must be put down.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. The Insurance reforms start immediately
And you know it. You may not like it, but the reforms are indeed a benefit for people who get sick.

Claiming otherwise is GOP style semantics.
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. What I said is true. All true, and YOU know it.
This bill must die.
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
7. Drop the mandates, increase the aid to the poor
Otherwise this "reform" just increases the misery for millions of people.
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Old Codger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
8. I am afraid
They will pass this piece of crap and strut around forever bragging on it and not revisit it again, if they care so little about the people that they cannot even vote in an ability to get cheaper prescription drugs they show their true colors...
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
9. We don't know if the "good parts" are going to be "good parts."
Do you know if the current HC plan is going to have maximum co-pays?

Will insurance companies be allowed to cut people off for the rest of a fiscal year once a patient uses a certain amount of coverage in a year?

Without knowing the answer to these questions, we can not really come to your conclusion of "or we condemn 100,000's of people to death, disability, or bankruptcy."
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Walk away Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
25. BCBS is going to be happy to raise my premiums X3.
They are going to love the extra $. Now when I finally have to give up Health Insurance I can be fined for it. This is not reform.
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optimator Donating Member (606 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
11. good. let people die then.
It isn't worth corporate tyranny, and threats don't work on me.
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galileoreloaded Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
15. You won the Wed. nite award for hyperbole!!!! Congrats!!! n/t
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
16. Kill this bill.
Do not buy this bullshit line. This bill is a boon to the industry a bust to the people.
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Walk away Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. +1 Let it fail.
To pass this mess is just wrong.
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
20. Pass something, pass anything?
No thanks.

The Bill that's left takes us backwards.

Kill it now while we can.
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