The Thrill of Victory; The Agony of Deceit! United Health's stock up big today.

Support this middle-of-the-night, insurance reform bill all you want, for whatever reason/justification you are buying into it. But don't insult my intelligence by telling me this is health care reform, or I am forced to dismiss everything else you ever say on this site.

You are smitten, charmed, he is our only hope, no other president was able to get this far in 100 years, he's stuck with this Congress, he inherited a mess, he'd doing all he can, it's a first step, it's better than what we have, we'll make it better, he's on our side, Rahm has our best interests at heart . . . HUH? Okay, I don't think anyone falls for that last one, but I understand placing hope and trust in Obama. Personally, I believe he is a good person, whose heart is in the right place, who is maybe in over his head. He definitely needs more and continuing support from all of us, if this country can ever overcome these Republican naysayers. I'd even go so far as to say that I believe that Barack Obama isn't the problem, but rather the problem is that there aren't more Barack Obamas in Washington.

That being said, however, this bill is as close to health care reform as the Chicago Bears are to winning a Super Bowl, the Chicago Cubs are to winning a World Series, or Chicago is to getting the Olympics or a City Council that isn't a rubber stamp of King Richard II. Or to getting Rahm Emanuel appointed ambassador to Antarctica, which is the only way things will ever change in this administration.

This bill is anything but reform. It's of the lobbyists, by the lobbyists, and for the corporations. How clueless can we be, folks?

On the Health Insurers without showing up for any battles.

Thus we now have this bill, which will keep health care costs prohibitively expensive, which will keep millions of Americans newly insured still unable to use the insurance they are purchasing, due to the nature of the deductibles.

The public option seems a distantly remembered thing, something that was mentioned some decades ago when a young statesman ran for office and declared "I know about Single Payer Universal Single Payer Health Care and I consider it the only logical choice to effectively solve the health care reform crisis. But to get there we need majorities in the House and the Senate and A Democratic President in the Oval Office."

Within a year or two that young man was kidnapped by UFO- riding aliens and replaced by a look alike, call him Barack X, who for whatever reason decided that "Since we already have a health care system, we must put our reform efforts to work within the system that we have."

and I consider it the only logical choice to effectively solve the health care reform crisis."

It is amazing that we have Fervent Obama supporters here who INSIST that Obama never supported Universal Health Care, and Never promised to fight for Universal Health Care during his campaign. They have said that anyone who thinks he supported UHC wasn't really paying attention. Yet, there it is in that quote, and in others that people have been posting.

Yes, Obama did support UHC. Yes, he did promise to fight for UHC if he had majorities in both houses if he got elected.

We kept our side of the bargain, and he hasn't. Obama has proved to be a coward. He's afraid to fight anyone to his right. Any sign of conflict or challenge coming from his right side and he immediately either backs down and hides, or worse, he gives in and moves to the right. :grr:

This is not what he offered us, and what he claimed he stood for. That bastard lied to us during the campaigns.

its from when he was running for senate.

And you have no idea how much effort he put into this fight. Or were you there listening in on all the phone calls he made? Or is he only fighting when he is on the TV?

did to get it to this point, and that's because we were denied the transparency that Obama promised over and over again, until he was elected. Of course, if it served your purpose, you'd probably find transparency in the Great Wall of China.

We do know however of certain deals, such as the Pharma one that its lobbyist Tauzin couldn't resist bragging about (or holding over Obama's head), made behind closed White House doors and never denied. If we knew the real extent of this administration's deal-making efforts to derail any real reform, Obama would draw smaller crowds than the teabaggers, not counting the protesters anyway.

And that reality is there are a lot of differing opinions on whats best for this nation. You can not force them all to your will no matter how much you desire it.

He learned fast. Kooch on the other hand still doesnt get it.

Because, well, he accomplished his mission. Big insurance and big pharma love him.

Must mean eveyone knows because of the health care bill we will all be getting new computers with amd chips in them!


What a fucking stupid argument.

We must all be getting two computers! YAY for health care!

will make more money in the next three months?

Premiums went up $100 a month. $1200 a year.
EVERY SINGLE COPAY has gone up.
It will now cost $30 to see your PCP--up from $20
It will now cost $40 to see a specialist--up from $30
ER visit (in network) is now $350--up from $100
IPH admit is now $500--up from $250

Our out of pocket has stayed at $2000, but very very few items are used in that equation.
The copays are not.

The medications that they pay--lower tier--strangely mimic the Walmart $4 list with a couple of exceptions.
They will cost $15
The upper tier will be $45 with EACH person having to pay a $300 copay FIRST.


Yeah, it REALLY sucks.

We are getting fucked.

On edit: We haven't had raises in 3 years. We haven't had our 401k's matched in 2 years.

They have been spending $1.6 million per DAY to fight the public option.
Just where did you think they were going to get the money? From their bonuses?

wow just wow.

:crazy:
When you lay down the crackpipe, we can discuss this situation. I prefer debating coherent folks.

And I am the one on the pipe..:silly:

money has been FLYING out of the insurance company coffers to fight the battle.
The money has already been spent...when exactly did you think they would come back to collect it? After this sham bill passes?

The insurance comapnies have been spending tons of money to make sure this bill that is a huge gift to them doesnt pass.. Is that about right?

Of course, that is exactly what you are doing.
It's what happens when you fall for the COP instead of substance.
Your agenda is shining through. Have a blessed day.:hi:

Seriously, if you are interested in reasoned discourse, it is best to just turn the sophists off. It is a waste of time to argue with the intellectually dishonest.

For those that may not know:

"In modern usage, sophism, sophist, and sophistry are derogatory terms, due to the influence of many past philosophers.

A sophism is taken as a specious argument used for deceiving someone. It might be crafted to seem logical while actually being wrong, or it might use difficult words and complicated sentences to intimidate the audience into agreeing, or it might appeal to the audience's prejudices and emotions rather than logic, i.e. raising doubts towards the one asserting, rather than his assertion. The goal of a sophism is often to make the audience believe the writer or speaker to be smarter than he or she actually is, e.g., accusing another of sophistry for using persuasion techniques.

A sophist is a user of sophisms, i.e., an insincere person trying to confuse or deceive people. Sophists will try to persuade the audience while paying little attention to whether their argument is logical and factual.

Sophistry means making heavy use of sophisms. The word can be applied to a particular text or speech riddled with sophisms."

you seem to be pissed that your rates went up and you also seem to be pissed that a bill was voted on. You also seem to blame the fact that there was a bill on dems cause if there wasnt one the insurance companies wouldnt have had to raise your rates to fight it.

Yet you seem somehow able to ignore the fact that the bill they were fighting sets limits to the money they can spend on overhead and that it stops pre existing condition nonsense..


Its as if you are just trying to be mad not that you have any real idea why you are mad. Its as if you are pretending that the mandtates came all by themselves with nothing else attached to them.....

Talk about a lack of substance...

Have a bonged out day or whatever it is your having.

arguing with a Bot is like arguing with a table

You havent strung an argument together in all the years you have been here.

She doesn't waste her time in snippy little back and forth fights on the internets so she's stoopid!1!

:rofl:

it's not even worth my time, even if I have nothing to do :rofl: