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Does anyone here really believe if lieberman was asked by Obama to support the public option he

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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 11:31 AM
Original message
Does anyone here really believe if lieberman was asked by Obama to support the public option he
would?

We are talking about a person who helped run the mccain campaign, and actively campaigned against Obama?

Why is lieberman bringing this up? because it is his way to say FU Democrats, even though any sane person knows that he would never have supported it.

In fact, there is no doubt that lieberman did have talks with Reid, and I don't find it credible that this wasn't discussed. In fact the Medicare buy in was discussed, and we all heard lieberman's answer to that
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
1. Spot on.
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
2. Lieberman is bringing this up for the same reason he does everything —
pay attention to me!!
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
3. The Myth of LBJ could've done it.
So could Bill Brasky.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Brasky
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
4. It's Really Hard to Believe for Me
I think Lieberman was a just a whipping boy, taking attention and responsibility away from Obama himself. To hide behind the assumption that someone like Lieberman is the sole reason for this Bill looking as it does today is truly ridiculous and a very pathetic excuse.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. He was definitely a contributing factor, because if you recall he reversed himself on the
Medicare buy-in
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. oh. he and others were a contributing factor
just that I think Lieberman seems to get way too much attention in all this, and believe me when I say this, I HATE that man.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. I agree on all counts of your assessment /nt
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
5. he might have
of course presidents are able at times to persuade senators, they do it all the time. Sometimes they are successful sometimes they are not.

Obama didn't try with Joe or anyone else. But why would he? Obama himself didn't want the public option.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. He might have? There is no evidence to even suggest that. He reversed himself on the Medicare buy
in, he campaigned with mccain against Obama, he wouldn't support the Democrat nominee in his state, and Democrats in the Senate DID talk with him about this, which is why after he rejected the Medicare buy in they were extremely pissed, because he lied to them

I agree with you that if Obama wanted a public option, at least he would have had them at the table initially, however, that still does not take away from my point that lieberman would have never supported a public option, and I have no doubt the SOB was asked by Democrats in the Senate
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
6. He would have gave the Prez his santimonious spiel, that NOBODY
wants to hear. Just ask, Al Franken.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
8. I don't think your assessment is correct.
Lieberman was for the medicare buy in idea until the last minute switch.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. That is my point, he was asked, and then turned around and switched. He is a lying scum bag
who would do anything to discredit the Democrats

That has nothing to do with the argument that the Obama administration never wanted a public option, it is a separate issue

lieberman wants to humiliate the Democrats, and seek revenge against them because he lost the primary.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. That's one view, certainly.
However, I'm pretty sure someone like Rahm Emanuel is closer to Lieberman's politics and world view than mine. That's why I remain open to possibilities he didn't come by that decision independently.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. ok /nt
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. It doesn't mean I'm right or you are wrong.
It means personally I'm not sure it was just him.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
14. I don't think that was the aim with Lieberman
Lieberman was the fall guy for the left.

The idea was to give cover to Conrad, Bill Nelson, Lincoln, Bayh, Baucus,and Landrieu on the public option. They didn't threaten to kill the bill in the final days because of the public option, but they all opposed it and benefited from Lieberman's actions.

This way, Lieberman single handedly killed the public option and gave the others cover. Lieberman knew damned well and good he'd never please the left, so he went out to be the face of destruction for the PO, even though there was no way in hell it was going to be passed any way. This is how the bill was kept alive without a complete meltdown in the Senate.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Fall guy for the left?
You got your terminology wrong - he was a fall guy for the RIGHT. The right are willing to throw him to the wolves to get what they want.

Problem is, the left is not doing anything about it - if the right is offering him up as a sacrifice we should fucking take them up on it. Strip him of his chairs, kill any legislation he's proposing, cancel his earmarks - make him as worthless to his state as he is to the rest of the country.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. You misunderstand what I meant
He was the fall guy to put out there and be blamed by the left.

Clearer?
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. OK, I get it -
but I still wish we could do something more than just 'blame' him, and actually DO something about it.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Open Senate seats in both Florida and Ohio
Get a progressive candidate up for each because a Progressive can be elected for each.

Go after Evan Bayh in the primaries. He has an opponent and he was one of those Lieberman gave cover to.

Go for the MO seat that's vacant. It won't be as progressive, but it's all a numbers game and with 63 members of the Democratic Caucus, joining a GOP sponsored filibuster becomse political suicide. As a plus, adding to the Democratic Senatorial Caucus makes Joe Lieberman powerless and irrelevant.

Go after Arlen Specter in the primary. We can definitely do more progressive than Specter.

Lots of things can be done.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
17. since Lieberman is obviously lost to us anyway, he'd make a great
object lesson.

Tell him that if he did NOT support single payer, that he'd lose his chairmanships, he'd never get ANY Democratic support on ANY legislation - even if it is something we like (after shooting him down, we could simply have someone else re-submit it) - and make it clear that he will not have ANY Democratic support for re-election.

Then follow through, when he refuses to comply.

Reid should not have 'discussed' this with him - he should have held it over his head. Fucking Sword of Damocles.
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
19. politicians don't "ask" ANYTHING of each other. they posture for the press and they cut deals.
if lieberman said he would support something "if obama asked", what he really means is he would support that something "if obama were to pay him enough".

the only interesting thing is the size and nature of that "payment".
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