Miracle at Memorial: Mom and Baby Die During Labor, Revived

http://www.kktv.com/home/headlines/80244642.html

Some are calling it a Christmas miracle... a mom and her baby die during labor, but doctors at Memorial Hospital in Colorado Springs were able to bring them both back to life.

Now, the whole family is back together at home. Doctors say it's very rare for this to happen, but after Tracey Hermanstorfer passed away during labor, doctors delivered the baby by c-section, with no anesthesia. That's when the family says the miracles began to unfold.

"There’s only one explanation for having either one of them, let alone both of them here,” said Mike Hermanstorfer. “It's just an absolute miracle."

On Christmas Eve, Tracey's water broke, so the couple went to Memorial Hospital. They thought it would be a routine delivery, just like it was with their other two boys.

(more at link)

Ugh. Next someone will start thanking the invisible sky god for making this happen.

If you actually bothered to look up the definition of the word miracle, you'd know that it does not only mean an event attributed to some divine intervention. It also is defined as "an extremely outstanding or unusual event, thing, or accomplishment"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/miracle

But thanks for making my point for me.

the mom occasionally recovers spontaneously.

This is rare, but it's not that rare. "Miracle" is overstating things.

They are pretty uncommon. So's a no-hitter.

:wtf:

It is extremely rare, moms do that in these rare occurrences, and it implies EXTREMELY GOOD medical care.

Or is medicine and medical knowledge given to humans by a divine being?

By the way the best to both mom and baby and hope the baby does not have medical issues due to lack of Oxygen to the brain.

I guess I am touched by god after all, if this was a miracle. As a medic I had a few calls where you may say it was a miracle. I'd argue it was dumb luck and LOTS of skill. Chiefly the skill part.

Maybe you can protest outside their house or something, really make sure you get the message out.

These crazy fundies think so.

www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=122054

your post just made me swear.
fundamentalist atheists are just as obnoxious to me as fundamentalists in other religions/beliefs.

wtf is the difference?

and, no, I dont belong to a frigging religion.

What exactly is a "fundamentalist atheist" anyway? Did you make that up all by yourself?

but this level of magical thinking is common in the THIRD WORLD, not in the FIRST WORLD, except the United States.

This is one reason the population is so damn easy to control.

And this has nothing to do with fundie anything. I hit my head over the magical thinking not just with MEDICAL science, but with many other issues... oh trust me Armageddon week on the History channel and Ghost Hunters would not be as big as they are if Americans didn't have an issue with this magical thinking.

Now Mari you do not know if I believe in a God. Perhaps the God I believe in has NOTHING to do with a particular human life... he\she\it has better things to do than care for a SINGLE person. We are not that fricking special. If we were, where was god to stop the Rwandan genocide? Or perhaps the big kahuna... the Holocaust? And this is the TYPE of magical thinking I am talking about.

If I pray enough... this thing in the sky will hear my cries and gosh darn it, LISTEN to me....

*I* am RIGHT and *those people* are DON'T KNOW ANYTHING is effin obnoxious from any kind of ism.

I'll wait.....

True progressives are tolerant of other religions or others without religion.

True progressives don't make snide or bullying remarks about others' beliefs.

As far as I'm concerned, you can believe in Raëlism or the Order of the Solar Temple and should be able to do so without mockery as long as you don't force me to believe in it, as well.

But you and I are a lot alike. I feel the same way!

I am VERY tolerant of others. I respect fully the right to believe what you want. I am, however, under no obligation to respect the actual beliefs themselves. Calling this a "miracle", as in divine intervention, is the opening of a debate. I merely answered, and without snide or bullying remarks.

BULLSHIT. The use of the word, with no mention of "divine intervention," is NOT "the opening of debate" based on YOUR assumptions.

That's why I posted the Einstein quote, to reflect other ways of looking at the word. And you made "snide or bullying remarks."

Good bye RD.

The context in which miracle was used in this case implies the primary definition of the word, which is, according to webster, divine intervention. As such, calling this incident a miracle, is as much as statement of faith as any other, and I responded that I saw it differently, as in I see it another way.

Much like you used your Einstein quote to show how one can look at something differently, you make my point for me. I looked at it differently and said such.

If you sneeze and someone says "bless you" do you consider that the opening of a debate as well? This thread wasn't about debating, nor was it theological. It is now, though, which is utterly pathetic.

The people who believe in religion? Sure. They deserve the same respect as anyone else -- and NO MORE.

You are wrong to suggest that it's wrong to castigate unsupported beliefs, especially those we find offensive.

NT!

"invisible sky god"? :wtf:

If you were a true progressive, you would allow people to believe as they see fit without using bullying language.

As long as they don't force you at gun-point to attend their church, mosque, synagogue, temple, etc., they have as much right to believe in God-defined miracles as you have in not believing them.

And its my OPINION, not bullying! Calling it a miracle is expressing their opinion and I am merely expressing mine. Why are YOU using bullying language and condemning ME for exercising MY right to an opinion. It works both ways.

Who is being intolerant? Who is preventing anyone from expressing their beliefs?


Just because someone expresses a different or opposing view, does not mean that is intolerant.

:banghead:

there are days.... that I want to just do this :banghead: over the damn magical thinking in this country.

Let me count the ways on how this went, from a medical stand point that is.

Other folks can pray for their miracles. I'll take science-based medicine.

Well, good for them. Sure beats the alternative.

:9..she was fine at dinner..said she felt a little short of breath, and an hour later when her husband took her to the ER (she said it was getting harder to breathe).. they admitted her and a couple of hours later, she died.. She was 70-something, but not in ill-health (to anyone's knowledge)..

These "miracles" happen all the time.. I had one myself.. My first child was early ,when I had a massive abruption at 7 months.. when they wheeled me down the hall they told my husband they would "try" to save us both..but not to get his hopes up too much, for the baby.. (Grade 3: Severe bleeding (which may be occult) leads to maternal shock and fetal death. There may be maternal disseminated intravascular coagulation. Blood may force its way through the uterine wall into the serosa, a condition known as Couvelaire uterus....from wikipedia.. I was Grade 3...no blood pressure..7 units on the table)

That baby is 36.. and oddly enough I had another abruption with our 3rd at 8 months pregnant.. that miracle is 31.

How fortunate for them all.

>shudder<

My daughter gave birth by C-section just last week on Dec. 23. Mother and baby daughter are both fine. But as with this family -- you never know with childbirth. My daughter's first needed an emergency C-section because the cord wrapped around his neck and could have killed him or given him a birth defect due to lack of oxygen to his brain. He also is fine.

It does not always end well.

Hekate

According to the story and interview I saw on the evening news.

Truly a beautiful story. Long and happy life to mother and babe.

The fact that it took place in a real hospital under the care of trained medical professionals had nothing to do with it I'm sure.

Q3JR4.

...just so they can spout their own belief that there's no such thing.

Quite apart from the fact that a "miracle" does not have to mean divine intervention, I just have to say this: if you were that dad, or that mom, or any of their family or friends, then what happened to them was a miracle for which they are all truly thankful.

:eyes:

A wonderful, unexpected outcome? Yes! Miracle? Not so much.

"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." -- A. Einstein

Not sure what your point is.....since there certainly are more ways to live a life.....

You know, if Einstein said it, it must be true.

other people's beliefs.

Why don't YOU try that?

And happily, there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

Happy New Year

is safe from being pissed on here at DU, especially if there is even the most remote inference to any kind of god. If the Hermanstorfers consider it to be a miracle, then anyone who disagrees can pretty much stick it where the sun don't shine.

I am so impressed I can hardly contain my yawn.

I was paying attention to something important.

Ignore those you disagree with instead of trying to understand where they are coming from. Great policy of ignorance you have there.

You've done a great job of almost single-handedly turning a thread about a wonderful event into a flamefest. I feel sad for you.

I just don't see it as a miracle. How does that take away from a stroke of great luck and the happiness it brought?

That's why you're on Ignore :boring:

Life is too short to deal with some of the stuff spewed here at DU.

Funny how when its coming from you, its not spew. Hypocrite.

It's great, like a personal mute button. They can carry on, but I don't have to see it.

There are so many who have a venomous attitude toward anything that even remotely deals with matters of faith or religion and it's like a hot poker up their ass. Plus they just can't seem to abide any happy or positive stories that have anything to do with faith or religion. Such sad people they must be.

How does it feel to live in an echo chamber, isolated from the real world?

miraculous events. Seeing his wife and child dead, holding his son as he was brought back to life ... who are we to "piss on" that?

I think we are ALL glad this turned out the way it did. Is anyone saying otherwise or are you just stuffing that strawman again?

The words you are attacking are in "quote marks."
This indicates a quote of someone else.
If you read the comment my post was a reply to,
you will find those words,
used by someone else,
which I quoted
in quote marks.

If you connect the dots, you will find that the comment came from someone else. Perhaps you could ask them.

However, as evidenced by the related subthread, the number of people who have you on Ignore already, or are about to, are a majority here. Perhaps they find that your nastiness and false accusations, your own "strawmen," make you seem less credible than someone, say, with credibility.

So, yes, the answer is, YOU are pissing on many here. Some are pissed off enough to put you on :boring:

Who is attacking anything? Who is pissing on anything?

Not me.


The OP called the story a miracle. I disagree, and stated why. Not sure how that is pissing on or attacking anyone.

How is this now about you? :wow: You replied in a subthread, where many have you on Ignore, now you're changing the subject, how's this working for ya, RD?

You are. I was responding to an allegation you made that I see as false. Perhaps if you didn't post your topic changing response, we wouldnt be having this conversation. I guess you could day you have made this about you. How's that working for ya, mini?

when he used the word miracle. FFS, people, just give it a rest.

over threads with religion in them. I don't have a problem with Mr. Hermanstorfer calling it a miracle. God was probably paying him back for having to live with that shitty name his whole life.

A person feeling antagonistic toward religion doesn't have to click on a thread decidedly not about politics and might be served better to save their derision for a thread about Pat Robertson or some instance where religion is actually in politics.

If they see it as a miracle, that's no skin of anybody's nose, so I don't understand people pissing all over this thread. :eyes:

;)

It's the "miracle" label.

This "miracle" wouldn't have happened if it didn't take take place in a modern hospital and attended by trained professionals.

Clearly, had this happened in a cave with no access to modern medical care, the outcome would have been the same. :sarcasm:

and that the father and other two boys weren't left motherless/wifeless especially during the holidays which is supposed to be a happy time.

I'm so happy for the mother and child. May they each have a long happy life.

It's an insult to the doctors by implying it was an act of Gawd.

:hug: and experience of the miracle of birth. There are miracles OD, all the time. If ever you are present at a birth (or death?) you may experience it.

This thread reminds me of why I've stayed away from DU for so long. Far too much unwarranted negativity on this site at times.

:hi: