Michigan Atty from Flight 253: "My Own Country Is Lying to Me"

The intrigue surrounding the Flight 253 incident is growing. The Michigan attorney (Haskell) continues to tell his story. This is fascinating to me.

oh, i see, it had to get PERSONAL, as in him nearly getting killed. Let's see if Atty. Haskell gets off his privileged ass and actually does anything useful, from this point hence, about our government's less-than-honest ways.

signed,
Patiently Waiting Wackjob

PS. If someone lied to you 99 times in a row then told you another story, who's insane for believing is also a lie #100?
I think those who blindly follow along are the nutjobs and the weak thinkers, because to accept that certain things were lies would crush the foundations of their entire fragile little existence.

everything

There are many people that have discovered that the Government lies to us on a regular basis, and that the only reason we go along with it is due to our Social Structure training us from birth to believe that the Government actually has the ability to protect us or control our lives.

I don't see what being enraged about Government inaction and the perversion of the legal system has to do with your impression of it being "Personal" for Haskell. Furthermore, since I don't watch TV, and have heard very little about Haskell's so called privileged ass, I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt until all the information is collated.

The shooting and demonizing the messenger has worked well for Many administrations seeking to divert attention away from the tender bits and gaping holes in their propaganda effort.

Of course, you may be right, and you may be wrong as well, and that's why I'll reserve judgement until the information is presented.

I automatically distrust any statement that labels people based on "Gut Feeling" or circumstantial evidence. Its the meat and potato's of the Propaganda artist, and I've evolved from falling for that bullshit years ago.

Airlines Experience.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7325854&mesg_id=7325854

The frustration that I experienced when I learned of this recent incident still troubles me.

I want to scream at the top of my lungs ~ "Please, will someone give passengers a voice in their Security!"

I keep thinking, if only I had been firm in demanding that something be done right away , that his seat be moved, or my seat be moved or could I have asked to speak to the Head Attendant and on and on my brain doesn't stop.

I'm thinking this morning that each passenger should receive a form that has a carbon copy when entering the airport. It would have a list of the options that a Passenger could/should do to keep everyone safe.

There can also be a tear off that can be given to Security or to the ticket agent or someone so that Passengers will feel that their EYES and EARS are vitally important in this process.

I don't remember seeing the man in question acting strange in the Pre Boarding Area, it wasn't until later in the flight that I realized that the man seated behind me in the WINDOW SEAT had a major problem.

I know some will say, that would be too much paper work for all concerned but not me.

I have traveled all over the globe and NEVER have I EVER seen anyone that acted like that man in the WINDOW SEAT behind me.

but sadly not surprising. How many times since 9/11 have we heard of people who were ignored by the authorities when they tried to report valuable information? Meanwhile, the Bush administration was advising the public to be watchful and report any suspicious activity or individuals. Evidently that was all just a guise to keep people scared and alarmed, but then I pretty much knew that at the time.

Read my link and to the best of my knowledge there is no input that can come from the passengers unless it is after the fact.


Or ~ beg the flight attendent to listen to you while you are in a confined seat or waiting for the bathroom with a plane full of people listening to your concerns.

were really more about show than safety. We're endured eight years of an administration that focused more on PR than competence. We've heard so many stories of people including FBI agents who tried to report suspicious behavior, but were ignored, transferred, demoted, or fired. "The safety of the American people" was a political slogan, not a real objective.

The more I think about it the more upset I get.

I have no problem taking off my shoes, putting them in a basket and on and on.

If it will help solve any problem I'm all for it.


BUT, a passenger should have a confidential way of letting the authorities know if they see something suspicious and they should be taken seriously.

We are the ones that are paying the airlines ~ our voices should be listened to----

not just the superficial appearance of safety. So many of the security procedures implemented are time consuming, humiliating, and pretty much ineffective, especially if a highly suspicious young man can board a plane to the U.S. without a passport. The best security measures are often the ones that the average person does not see. If a potential terrorist knows the highly publicized security procedures, they will find a way around them, so they generally serve only as a means to appease passengers fears.

For the airlines and the TSA to ignore legitimate tips from passengers is arrogant, incompetent, and potentially dangerous. They are only creating a false sense of security.

to US because they have cut there time in half.

The last time I was flying from DC to Los Angeles, I only got a package of peanuts. The big ugly cart did not roll up the aisle.

Bingo! This is what I am for ~ NO FOOD CARTS in the aisles. If I see a nutcase acting crazy and all I can do is sit in my seat until the Cart Driver gets finished colleting the wrappers for the nasty food, that is a MAJOR PROBLEM.

His story doesn't match the known facts.

I am not tuned into the story enough to know that.

I do, however, find his challenge about the video evidence to be compelling. If he is lying, it would be easy to prove that by releasing the video. The fact that they haven't released it lends support to his claims, imho.

He claims the underpants bomber had no passport when in fact he did have a passport.

Furthermore, any video evidence is currently in the custody of authorities and won't be released to the public any time soon due to the fact that yes, there could be accomplices and they cannot release the tapes or else they could tip off any accomplices the authorities are on to them. And HAskell knows this, thus he points at the lack of the video being released to prop up his bullshit story.

Only that the "sharped dressed man" was trying to get him on without one.

But it makes no sense. ExplosiveUnderpants had a passport and a valid visa. So why would SharpDresser say he didn't?

And they "do it all the time" with Sudanese.

Please explain how "passing for Sudanese" gets a person onto an airline without documentation.

And could not get a passport from Sudan.

If he were a political refugee, he would have docs from the US embassy to that effect.

The airline doesn't fly undocumented passengers. They get fined for that. Saying "I'm a political refugee" does not get you onto an airplane. Period.

But if you want to know the whole story search for it on the web like I did.
and ask yourself why it was alleged to say that "We do this all the time", and stop swallowing every thing you are fed.

No plane to the US leaves the runway until the passenger list is is sent to DHS and cleared.

Refugees and asylum seekers do not get a free pass.

---
Only U.S. citizens can board international flights to the United States without passports -- but only after the air carrier otherwise confirms their identity and citizenship, said Chief Ron Smith, spokesman for U.S. Customs and Border Patrol in Detroit.

Smith added that a refugee trying to fly to the United States from another country would also have to have proof of an application for asylum or refugee status, proof of citizenship and identifying documents before the plane could take off.

Smith said that, had there been a Sudanese refugee on the plane, "We would be aware of it."
----

Again, you are the creulous believer here.

The fact is that he did bord the plain with all kinds of red flags around him...now why did that fail to keep him off the plain?
He did not fall through some crack in the system he walked right through the the front door and you would have us believe that he did it with no help....he was nothing but a kid for god sakes.
you would rather believe that any witness that tells another story is a scyco attention seeker rather than question authority.

There were no red flags. He had a valid visa and ticket, and every right to board the plane.

You can't just schmooze your way onto an airplane, or into the secure area of Schiphol. There is not one "authority" involved in the process either.

I mean that is basic red flag to any security person...now how did he get around that?
Just an error? or would that require some help?

Now I can imagine how that happened but don't actually know, but consider this:

The CIA wants an incident for some larger perpose....they already know several young impressionable "terrorist" that can be persuaded to do the job....so now how do they get him on the plane....well all they need to do is turn the manager of the airport security to help them and there are a lot of them around the world in cities that can be used...so they find one that is addicted to gambling, sex, or some other vices and they can get him to do what they want done. Or perhaps make him an offer he can't refuse in exchange for his looking the other way...Now if you believe that it is imposable to corrupt a few people you are delusional.
And it is pretty simple if you already have one that you already know will try to do it....you just let it happen and open one small door.
And then you cover it up by putting out to the public the very same talking points you have posted here....and there are a lot of people that will only hear that because you already have a handle on the media.
And anyone that tries to draw attention to the obvious will be ridiculed as conspiracy theorist, or called attention whores or nut jobs

Yep seen this movie too.

There is no "manager of airport security" that can tell Northwest Airlines to board a passenger without a passport.

There is no "manager of airport security" who can tell Dutch Immigration to let someone into the secure area of an international concourse.

There is no "manager of airport security" who can have a US bound plane take off until DHS has cleared the passenger list.

There is no "manager of airport security" who can produce US State Dept. authorization papers for a political refugee.

I understand you don't know how airports work on a very basic level.

This guy had a US visa. He didn't NEED any help clearing anything.

And no one can say yes this person can board?
So if one of the screener say this man is suspect no supervisor can overrule them?
I find that hard to believe.
And I find it even harder to believe that no one noticed a man with a visa buying a one way ticket and never thought to ask why.
And I find it hard to believe that no one produced the video to show that Haskell was not telling the truth....they have the video you know.

What I'm telling you is there is no single authority which controls the several entities here.

Only Dutch immigration can clear you into the international area. Only Northwest Airlines can decide who is getting aboard one of their planes. Only DHS can clear a flight to take off for the US.

There are several independent entities, each of which is in charge of it's operations. That's why there is no "airport manager" who can do all of the things in the post to which you responded. Each of those operations is subject to entirely separate chains of authority.

A Sudanese refugee smuggling operation was already in place. Sharp dressed Indian man or others regularly brought Sudanese refugees to that gate and boarded them on flights by an arrangement of bribing gate agents and others. Underpants idiot was fed into that system.

The great thing about using criminal operations is that the involved persons will not talk.

Why does one need to "smuggle" Sudanese refugees from Holland to the US. If the State Dept. gives them papers, they come right in.

That scenario makes zero sense.

papers to every Sudanese that asks? THAT is just plain stupid.

So, Northwest Airlines is involved in an illegal immigration scheme? Is that it?

If an airline delivers someone who does not appear to have a right of entry, they face a ridiculous fine and have to transport the person back to the origin of the flight. You can't just say "I'm a refugee" and get on a plane to the US. DHS has to clear the passenger list before the flight takes off.

And I can't believe you would even think it was.
Criminal operations often take place within the company not by the company.
When people find that they can make a whole lot more money by looking the other way than they can by doing their job many will do it.

And i would guess that you think that imposable.
I don't know anything about airports but I do know something about the dark side, and from that I know it can be done.

The guy has a visa, and hence a legal right to enter the US regardless of what else is stamped in his passport, but you are going to "turn" several people from different organizations and make sure they are all in the right place at the right time in order to make a scene atthe check in counter, for no reason other than the challenge of it.

Ok.

The list could be extensive.
Security companies
Military industrial complex
Political operatives.
Dick Cheney and Karl Rove....I could go on and on.
So you are saying if a person with a visa comes to the airport and buys a one way ticket no one has the right to examine him or deny him entry to the country?

If you show the airline a ticket and the visa stamp in you passport, the airline will let you board.
Yes, people fly on one way tickets all of the time.

But your point is that all of these entities were in on it, but they decided to make it sporting by having someone with a valid US visa try to board without a passport. Ummmm, yeah.

A visa does not allow you to stay. And so this would be a red flag for anyone in the system.

And it is important to note that he probably new that it would cause a red flag but did it anyway.
And that begs the question why?
Ether he wanted to be caught or he new that he would get through with someones help.

Have you ever heard "the need to know"
All covert operations use this control...no one but those actually constructing the operation knows the whole picture.
And so it may well have been that they did use a Somali smuggling operation and just used it to let this guy through...perfict because a criminal operation is not likely to talk.
And they may well have had an informant that kept us completely informed about this guy and may even encouraged it.
Nasty business like tis has been going on a long time and they are good at it.

You typically don't buy a round trip ticket. Particularly, not a round trip ticket to and from Amsterdam, if you are not Dutch.

The airline doesn't care what kind of a ticket someone has.

The alleged incident here involves the airline boarding personnel.

DHS checks the passenger manifest before the plane is allowed to take off.

Different functions - different people.

Quick, look, behind you...

It is infallible.
DHS just did not get the memo about underpants, and a few people at the airlines did not notice anything wrong....no conspiracies it is all as it is painted to be.
Drink the kool aid and come into the fold....be one with the Borg....I got it.

I've heard the accounts (all second hand) from the MSM. IF this man was actually there and saw this... I wasn't there. Were you? I have no idea, but it would be nice to know the truth..IF there was a "sharp-dressed man", I am sure that he and any accomplices there, are hip to the fact that they were recorded.

no passport" because it's been widely reported that Attorney said that and because he's posted blogs to the same effect:

... Haskell said he and his wife were sitting on the ground near their boarding gate in Amsterdam, which is when they saw Mutallab approach the gate with an unidentified man ... While Mutallab was poorly dressed, his friend was dressed in an expensive suit, Haskell said. He says the suited man asked ticket agents whether Mutallab could board without a passport. “The guy said, 'He's from Sudan and we do this all the time'” ...
Flight 253 passenger: Sharp-dressed man aided terror suspect Umar Farouk Abdul Mutallab onto plane without passport
By Sheena Harrison | MLive.com
December 26, 2009, 2:22PM
http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2009/12/flight_253_passenger_says_at_l.html

I find Attorney's story extremely implausible for a number of reasons, which I have repeatedly posted, but it's unquestionable that he has made this claim. It's also clear that Haskell is the only person making this claim and that his wife who was with him at the time won't substantiate it:

... Haskell is the only known passenger to provide an account of Abdulmutallab being helped by a second man. Haskell's wife, Lori Haskell, said she was distracted by the couple's card game.
Posted: 11:54 a.m. Jan. 1, 2010
Taylor lawyer suspects a cover-up
By NAOMI R. PATTON
FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER
http://www.freep.com/article/20100101/NEWS05/100101009/1318/

If you're asking how I know "ExplosiveUnderpants had a passport and a valid visa," I'll refer you to posts #42 and #43 below, which indicate his passport was scanned twice within about an hour in Nigeria (when he arrived from Ghana and when he boarded the plane for Amsterdam) and that the Dutch say he produced (as expected) a valid passport and visa to get on the US flight

Terrorists aren't known for being truth tellers.

Is it that odd to believe that somebody who is trying to bomb a plane might also stoop to telling a fib?

The objective is to get ON the plane.

For some reason they wanted to get him on without showing the passport.

How do you suppose he got to the boarding area?

In which case they may have been trying to prevent a discovery that he had no documentation for the starting point of his journey.

I'm not sure what the reason is, but one can speculate. I don't see any valid reason to presume that the witnesses in Amsterdam (who say they overheard the discussion about him supposedly having no passport) would be lying. Obviously somebody lied--but I'm more apt to assume terrorists trying to murder hundreds of people would be lying rather than folks returning home from a safari or from an adoption trip.

And it is obvious.

By the time you have gotten through security and passport control, and you are in the boarding area, the ailine doesn't give a shit where you have been or how you got there. The only thing they check at that point is whether the name on the passenger list matches the name in the passport, against the possibilty you traded with someone else in the concourse. Northwest Airlines is running a flight from AMS to DET, and they don't care how anyone got there or where they have been. No airline boarding agent is going to give a crap where the guy started or came from, since he had a valid ticket and visa for US entry. Period.

To and from South America, Central America, Europe, Middle East, Asia, and Australia. Of course I'm not one of the "usual suspects"--they would probably think I'm smuggling drugs before they would think I had a bomb.

The most difficult search I've been through was in Tokyo-Narita. On a trip back from Thailand I stopped for three days in Tokyo. I had a huge amount of stuff that I bought in Thailand, and I paid to leave it at Narita airport. When I was in the process of leaving the Japanese security was very suspicious about why I had so much stuff from Thailand. They unwrapped everything, they confiscated my nail clippers. I really began to wonder if I was going to get on the plane.

When I was traveling in the middle east (back in the early eighties) I was told that the Muslim countries would give you a hard time if you had a recent Israeli stamp in your passport.

In southeast Asia they did look at how I got to be in the country I was coming from. When I crossed over into Cambodia by bus they looked through my passport to see how I had come to be in Vietnam. But that was government people, not travel people who were doing the checking.

You should repeat this to the dumb-ass who says that the cover story claims he didnt have a passport period.

yourself.

do not want to make public. There could be lots of very good explanations for keeping details and evidence relevant to an ongoing investigation from the public at this time. Haskell has stated what he saw. Regardless of how valuable his statement may be to the authorities, and although he was an eyewitness to the events, there may be lots of things about the events that he does not know or understand. We all have to wait and see. The police or other authorities have no obligation to let us in on their investigation.

But don't let that stop you. I agree, it is most unseemly for an unauthorized eye witness to dispute the Official Story. It is downright rude. This guy should shut up and stop interfering with the program.

come forward with your account of the story only to be labeled 'unamerican' and 'attention-seeking?' Geez.:sarcasm:

Makes me wonder just how many posters are being paid by The Heritage Foundation.

attention? It's 50=50 right now - your word or his. I see nothing to cause me to doubt him. What's your angle?

If he wants the video, he knows how to get it - file suit against the airline and subpoena the video.

Haskell won't do that, because he doesn't want the video released.

He's an attorney who was nearly killed by what he claims is intentional action on the part of
airline employees who allowed the bomber on the plane.

He says he wants the truth known. So......

for a statement like that? Are you psychic?

The man is sitting at a table at the all you can eat buffet, demanding to know why there's no food on his plate.

I do not believe his story. I'm sorry if my truthfulness about my opinion offends you.

usually you do that when all other options of decency fail. Not for you, I guess.

What is the legal rush, anyway? Unless someone is planning a suicide for someone.

... So ask him what's the rush.

being responsible. NOT whining. It is very possible that the guy had a passport for his Accra-Lagos-Amsterdam flights - but the passport could not be used on the Amsterdam-Detroit flight.

I really find it incredulous that so many people have gone on an attack against the Haskells.

I can only think it's diversion, distraction, and deference to someone else besides everyday citizens.

I really find it incredulous that someone waiting at the gate observes something and there are people on DU who want to squelch it and him/them.

I will apologize to all you character assassinators if I am wrong, but for now you are character assassinators. I am curious about what you DO fight for and support.

He's got plenty of cause, take your pick. Speaks volumes that he hasn't.

I like how those who believe his tale constantly refer to the fact that he's an attorney, as if that should help his credibility. Sort of like the Surgeon's photo, IMO.

in a way that the video would be germane to the issue? Just asking..

Where do you get your known facts?

pretty much explains it.

HAskell's story doesn't pass the sniff test.

whether or not he produced it at the airport.

According to Haskell, the Dutch have confirmed that 'he did not pass through normal passport boarding procedures'. I haven't found an independent story to back that up yet.

Haskell also claims that a second Indian man who was on the plane, (different from the'sharp dressed man' who did not board the plane supposedly) was detained and then later taken away in handcuffs. The news has not reported this if true.

2nd man held in Flight 253 attack but kept secret

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security/1033983-article-2nd-man-held-flight-253-attack-but-kept-secret.html

all of the passengers on Flight 253 stood in a small area in an evacuated luggage claim area of an airport terminal. During this time period, all of the passengers had their carry on bags with them. When the bomb sniffing dogs arrived, 1 dog found something in a carry on bag of a 30 ish Indian man. This is not the so called "Sharp Dressed" man. I will refer to this man as "The man in orange". The man in orange, who stood some 20ft away from me the entire time until he was taken away, was immediately taken away to be searched and interrogated in a nearby room. At this time he was not handcuffed. When he emerged from the room, he was then handcuffed and taken away. At this time an FBI agent came up to the rest of the passengers and said the following (approximate quote) "You all are being moved to another area because this area is not safe.

Haskell says other passengers have come forward to confirm his story about this second person who was arrested. He also says that the FBI have admitted a second person was detained. Again, I haven't found anything other his report to confirm what he says, so far.

It should be easy for the media to do. If other passengers agree with what he says about the 2nd person that would pretty much prove he's telling the truth. And if the Dutch authorities would release the video they have, that would confirm or dismiss those claims.

He's either over-excitable or he's telling the truth. Either way it wouldn't take much to confirm or dismiss his story.

on entry into Nigeria .. and again, as he boarded the flight to Amsterdam ...

Jet bomb suspect's journey 'began in Ghana'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8437046.stm

Time to relegate further discussion to the Truther dungeon.

passport and US visa ...

CIA warned about airline bomb plot
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5hzM-ty4Q8nIWU22GUJ1GP_bMxQAg

through Holland with a valid passport and US visa. Moreover, the airline had a financial interest in assuring he had both, since if he was denied entry to the US for such a reason, they would have been on the hook for flying him back out of the country

something no one else saw, not even his wife, who was with him at the time -- it is a rather thin and watery soup, without much nourishment

The notion that a guy with a valid visa needed some kind of mysterious assistance to board a plane is facially stupid.

Either a guy with a ticket, a visa, and a passport got on a connecting flight, or else authorities in three governments and two airlines were all involved in an effort to make one gate agent improperly board a passenger.

favor. :beer:

By Sheena Harrison | MLive.com
December 29, 2009, 6:46PM

A person was detained by customs at Detroit Metro Airport on Friday following Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab's alleged attack on Northwest Airlines Flight 253, according to a spokesman for U.S. Customs and Border Protection.

It is unknown why the person was detained or whether the person will face any charges, spokesman Ron Smith told MLive.com.

Update: In an interview on Wednesday afternoon, Smith said MLive.com's story was accurate. He clarified that the man taken into custody came to Detroit aboard a separate flight and was detained for issues unrelated to the attack on Flight 253.

Bill Carter, a spokesman with the FBI in Washington, D.C., said in an interview Tuesday that Abdulmutallab was the only person arrested or charged in relation to Friday's foiled attack ...

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2009/12/flight_253_passenger_tells_msn.html

And he didn't say the bomber had no passport. Just that someone was helping him, and that person didn't get on the plane. The video should help to verify that ~

He may have been beenemotional after the experience, apparently he wasn't lying, but possibly placing more importance on things he remembered than they deserved. Or maybe not. If there was someone with the bomber at the airport, I imagine it would be important to find out. People did doubt his claim about the second person being detained, which now turns out to be true. So, I'm sure they will be looking at the video to check out what he said.

Earlier this week, Chief Customs and Border Patrol Officer Ron Smith said a second person handcuffed was from a different flight. However, Thursday night Smith confirmed that a passenger from flight 253 was handcuffed, but wasn't arrested or detained. Smith said another report, which he didn't access earlier, shows that a passenger from flight 253 "did have a canine alert to his carry on baggage in the baggage area" of the Customs and Border Patrol facility. That person was handcuffed and "escorted to an interview room where he was interviewed and searched," according to Smith. Nothing was found during the search and Smith said the man was given an explanation for why he was searched and then allowed to leave the facility with other passengers from flight 253. Smith said the passenger wouldn't be identified because he was not arrested or detained ...

Posted: Friday, 01 January 2010 12:37PM
Feds: Second Person Handcuffed After Airline Terror Attack
http://www.wwj.com/Feds--Second-Person-Handcuffed-After-Airline-Terro/6017131

reading about that. So that probably caused the confusion. Good that he confirmed the incident on flight 253 as Haskell was certain he had witnessed it happen. Another passenger has also said he saw the same incident, and his account is very similar to Haskell's. But Smith's explanation seems to clear that up. Thanks for the link again.

to The Detroit News late Thursday apologizing that the information on the passenger -- which was reported to federal investigators by a pair of Taylor attorneys who were passengers on the flight -- was not made available earlier ...

In previous interviews Smith said the Haskells' account was a composite of two events that occurred at the airport around the time passengers got off Flight 253 ...

• A man from another flight -- Northwest Flight 249, also from Amsterdam -- was arrested at the jetway as he got off his flight and would have been led handcuffed through the area where the Flight 253 passengers were gathered, Smith said. The name of the man was not released, Smith added, because he was arrested on suspicion of immigration violations, not on a criminal matter.

• A sniffer dog reacted to agricultural or food products inside the bag of a third man ... Smith said. He was questioned and may have had some items confiscated but was not arrested, Smith said ...

Last Updated: January 01. 2010 4:37PM
Customs official confirms report of 2nd man held from Flight 253
Jennifer Chambers and Paul Egan / The Detroit News
http://www.detnews.com/article/20100101/NATION/1010405/1410/METRO01/Customs-official-confirms-report-of-2nd-man-held-from-Flight-253

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2009/12/flight_253_passenger_kurt_hask.html

However, a few hours later, Customs changed its story again. This time, Mr. Ron Smith of Customs, says the man that was detained "had been taken into custody, but today tells the news the person was a passenger on a different flight." Mr. Ron Smith, you are playing the American public for a fool. Lets take a look at how plausible this story is (After you've already changed it twice). For the story to be true, you have to believe, that:

1. FBI/Customs let passengers from another flight co-mingle with the passengers of flight 253 while the most important investigation in 8 years was pending. I have already stated that not one person who wasn't a passenger or law enforcement personnal was in our area the entire time we were detained by Customs.
2. FBI/Customs while detaining the flight 253 passengers in perhaps the most important investigation since the last terrorist attack, and despite not letting any flight 253 passenger drink, eat, make a call, or use the bathroom, let those of other flights trample through the area and possibly contaminate evidence.
3. You have to believe the above (1 and 2) despite the fact that no flights during this time allowed passengers to exit off of the planes at all and were detained on the runway during at least the first hour of our detention period.
4. You have to believe that the man that stood 20 feet from me since we entered customs came from a mysterious plane that never landed, let its passengers off the plane and let this man sneak into our passenger group despite having extremely tight security at this time (i.e. no drinking even).
5. FBI/Customs was hauling mysterious passengers from other flights through the area we were being held to possibly comtaminate evidence and allow discussions with suspects on Flight 253 or to possibly allow the exchange of bombs, weapons or other devices between the mysterious passengers from other flights and those on flight 253.

Seriously Mr. Ron Smith, how stupid do you think the American public is?

Mr. Ron Smith's third version of the story is an absolute inplausible joke. I encourage you, Mr. Ron Smith, to debate me anytime, anywhere, and anyplace in public to let the American people see who is credible and who is not.

I ask, isn't this the more plausible story:

1. Customs/FBI realized that they screwed up and don't want to admit that they left flight 253 passengers on a flight with a live bomb on the runway for 20 minutes.
2. Customs/FBI realized that they screwed up and don't want to admit that they left flight 253 passengers in customs for 1 hour with a live bomb in a carry on bag.
3. Customs/FBI realize that the man in orange points to a greater involvement then the lone wolf theory that they have been promoting.

Mr. Ron Smith I encourage you to come out of your cubicle and come up with a more plausible version number 4 of your story.

The passenger had written up his account of the incident which was published on Huffington Post and a DUer posted the link to it here.

experienced. It does verify that a second person was detained. So it looks like Haskell was right about that.

Also mentioned in that article, was the fact that several people saw someone video-taping the whole incident. Doesn't say if anyone has come forward with the tape.

Thanks for the link ~

because somebody told you. maybe they lied.

he had a passport and it was stamped. There's a link above under my previous comment I think.

Haskell didn't say he had not passport though, he said he was getting help from someone with 'passport issues'. That man didn't board the plane, according to Haskell.

The other part of his story has been confirmed, that a second man was detained by the FBI. So he wasn't imagining that. I think it was denied at first, but now has been verified. Another passenger has also mentioned in an article on Huffington Post.

I am sure a lot of people would like to see the video because if there was another person I imagine the authorities would want to talk to him.

I think Haskell was telling the truth. Doesn't have to be a conspiracy theory to believe that. He was right about the second person on the plane, so it's more than likely he did see someone talking to the bomber at the airport. It might have been an airport security person helping him, as Haskell said, or it might have been an accomplice. The video the Dutch say they have, should clear that up.

i'm just saying be careful what you think you KNOW. for my part, i don't trust the nigerian or dutch gov't any more than i trust the u.s. gov't.

Are these air marshals? I travelled next to a man on an American airlines flight who disappeared through a side door before passport control. Would we suspect that the Nigerian guy was employed by the airline or a government?

between flights, do that.

That's why the government is getting hell. The State Dept. gave the guy a visa.

the same person who was at the center of the fire? He mis-identified? Or are you saying he made everything up? To get attention?

If the Angry Dwarf said he believed the guy, you would demand he be given the Presidential Medal of Freedom the next day.

And as far as attention seeking nuts go......

The guy had a fucking passport. That's a known fact. Haskell's story is bogus. He's the only one spouting his bullshit.

The alleged terraist had explosives in his pants, not Federal Reserve notes or Gold Mansacks stock certificates.

:eyes:

Maybe he can get the truth from his space alien friends.

Dennis is a Hobbit. Geezus, you Rahmbots need to get your facts right.

Look at Kucinich, he has fucking "Keebler" written all over him!

I'm neither an atheist nor a bigot.

You could have fooled me...Especially on the last point:eyes:

Escaped from a church that didn't know the difference between Jesus Christ and Ronald Reagan. But I get the feeling you would be just as offended by a picture of Reagan on a pogo stick.

You see, some of us were raised in faiths which did NOT conflate religion with politics...Others were raised in religions which actually leaned LEFT, e.g "liberation Theology", Catholic Worker, etc.

I was raised in a mainstream religion with NO political bent. My parents were Pro-Union Dems who virulently opposed Reagan and the Right Wing.

aren't furry enough for a hobbit. maybe he waxes them...


hmmm...

and I doubt she'd tell.

she has NEVER called me!

:rofl:

because I've read that a well dressed man who appeared to be Indian was at the Nigerian boarding gate and did the song and dance about the bomber being a Sudanese refugee. I have seen little to corroborate it beyond a story that came out late on Christmas Day.

As for what happened in Amsterdam, that's for the Dutch to try to explain.
This is the first I've heard of a well dressed man in Amsterdam running interference for him to get him boarded.

It's clear security broke down in both places. Everything else is clear as mud at this point.

However, the whole story is starting to smell a lot worse than the bomber's singed testicles did.

and he's the only one telling it.

Meanwhile, the fact is, the underpants bomber had a passport.

I find it absolutely astounding after all the lies we've been fed in this country...FOR DECADES...by virtually EVERY administration, including Obama's, no doubt....that people like you are automatically more willing to believe the various authority figures of different countries, who have obvious vested interests in continuing to lie about terrorism, than to believe a fellow American, who has really nothing to gain by making up such a story, and as a lawyer, one would think, has quite a bit to lose by lieing. I've heard this man Haskell interviewed and he sounds quite sane and rational. His story needs to be investigated and any videos or other facts need to be released.

Next thing we know, you'll be sticking up for the honor of Blackwater.

Now that he is condemning the country in general - :tinfoilhat:

There are way too many holes in his story.

eye witnesses don't step forward. People like you who weren't there and don't know jack except what you're told by the MSM.

How's The Heritage Foundation doing these days? Are they still paying over $15/hour? Or are you paid by the post?

If you don't agree with me YOU MUST BE TEH SPIEZ FOR GOPZ!!!111!

Absurd.

Why wouldn't the release the video....because they are trying to protect an inside job, etc. etc.

The Wingnuts will bee raging about this one in the new year. Just wait until wingnut acquaintances start sending us inside job emails, etc.

I believe him AND his wife.

coincident assertions which do not directly contradict, but only raise your credulity level for the government line, don't count.

I'll bet he never raised an eyebrow when 9-11 happened. Didn't want to blame the little bush kid.He needs to STFU and quit stirring up more repig shit.

I don't get your comment at all. What makes anyone here a "freeptard"?

Looks to me like there is the possibility of a setup to embarrass the current administration.

This should be a non-partisan investigation and discussion.

Sorry for not making myself clearer. :hi:

I'd start with Chertoff's firm and his client who manufactures the screening machines.

Then the Attorney General would want stone cold proof before he went public--and that's assuming that Bushco plants in the DoJ aren't waiting to sandbag his ass at every turn, which they most certainly are. Haskell can yell all he wants, but if there's any merit in his story I have no doubt that American and Dutch law enforcement are vigorously following up, but there's no reason they'd make that investigation public until they actually know something--and maybe not even then, if it leads to a broader network, which it might.

I have no problem believing the authorities are following up on the leads but are not going to dump incomplete information out into the public domain.

has been on my little list and it is so helpful not being able to read what they say.

What you have is a man and woman who were on the flight, saw some events happen, and watched them get ignored or outright dumped into a memory hole in favor of an "official story". I think the claim that another man who was on this flight was seen convincing the ticket agent to let the "terrorist" on board, who was later with the group of passengers when they were secluded from all others in the airport by the FBI/TSA, who was handcuffed and taken away by the FBI/TSA are credible. The fact that the oficial statement first denied there was another person, then later admitted to another person, but that he was from another flight (despite being in the group of quaranteened passengers) and taken away for "drug possession" seems fishy to me.

Maybe this guy DIDN'T believe that our government could act this way until he experienced it himself. That doesn't make him a freeptard.

according to Haskell (and that has been confirmed now) was not the same person he saw with the bomber at the airport. He was clear about that. Both 'looked Indian' he said, but the 'airport guy' didn't get on the plane. To differentiate between the two, Haskell described the one who was taken away as 'Orange'.

At least that part of his story was true, as another passenger also saw the man being taken away and described it pretty much the same way Haskell did. There's a link to a HuffPo article above written by the other passenger. Their stories are almost identical.

Although he didn't say the bomber had no passport, he did say he was being helped with what he thought were 'passport issues'. Both the Nigerian and Dutch authorities now say the bomber did have a passport and it was stamped before the flight.

The only remaining question regarding the person who helped him, can only be answered by looking at the video.

Oh, he's been a believer for quite some time. On his second Alex Jones appearance, he confirmed Haskell was a 9/11 inside jobber as well.

That would certainly help to explain how he managed to board the plane w/o a passport, if he had someone with "credentials" (real or imagined) advocating for him.

It could also become fodder for a lot of tin-foil. I think I'll be watching with interest.

Thought - why didn't they take their own advice? Personally, I prefer to be comfortable and be "myself", but....

If it had been "Clean Shaven Man", they would have had a potential hypocrisy problem.

My "inner child" still tells me that there was a "deeper meaning".

The "every girl" did not actually represent "EVERY girl" but only those that were "sexy".

The "sharp-dressed man" represents power and money. Everything that a "shallow" woman would be attracted to. And since men tend to be attracted to shallow and sexy women -

OMG! I'm finding "deeper meaning" in a ZZ Top song! I've obviously had too much rum/coke.

powerful will try and make this story go away ASAP.

:)

to...fingers...to...keyboard...not...working...

Google....no....help...


GAAAAAH!

:(

Apart from the fact that your comment seems "off the mark", what's with the unrelenting Jesus bashing?

..Shouldn't DU atheists be "equal-opportunity" haters when it comes to religion?

For instance, why not "Allah just left Chicago"?

..Or would that be less than PC?

Yeah..It sure would...I guess atheism doesn't save one from being a coward and a hypocrite.

Did someone write a song called "Allah just left Chicago"?

:crazy:

Don
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN69GC2amTg

Zz Top — Jesus Just Left Chicago

Jesus just left Chicago and he's bound for New Orleans.
Well now, Jesus just left Chicago and he's bound for New Orleans.
Yeah, yeah.
Workin' from one end to the other and all points in between.

Took a jump through Mississippi, well, muddy water turned to wine.
Took a jump through Mississippi, muddy water turned to wine.
Yeah, yeah.
Then out to California through the forests and the pines.
Ah, take me with you, Jesus.

You might not see him in person but he'll see you just the same.
You might not see him in person but he'll see you just the same.
Yeah, yeah.
You don't have to worry 'cause takin' care of business is his name.

- Billy Gibbons, Dusty Hill & Frank Beard

just not as musically knowledgeable, it seems!

That being said, I think "Allah just left Chicago"..or Miami..Or DC...could work too!:hi:

Now, the Grateful Dead on the other hand.....

Can only celebrate this citizen who's account has been questioned --

rather than checking the video --

Honorable man trying to tell us the truth of this farce --

Two possibilities:

a) eithe r the report is accurate, and the sharp-dressed man is a suspect...in which case I doubt the authorities will want to reveal their pursuit of him publicly until they have him safely in custody along with all the evidence they need; or

b) this guy completely misinterpreted the events at the airport and wasted a bunch of time investigating someone who is actually an entirely innocent bystander.

In neither case does he get to tell law enforcement and the Dutch security services how to run their investigation.

What a maroon...

who has had his eyes opened, for once.

It can be quite a shock to the system to become witness to that first hand. Not saying I believe the guy's story one way or another but that a vague, general idea of the government's dishonest tendencies is far different than having it slap you in the face.

:eyes:

And why would this guy get on the flight, if he knew something was wrong?

Even if this sharp-dresed man were filmed in the airport with a sign on his back saying 'Mr S. D. Mann, Terrorist, 123 Obvious Street, Obvious Town' I doubt the various security agencies would go about tracking him down in public. Kurt Haskell is just trying to get on TV, but I'm sure a group of people will scoop up the inevitable book, which I predict will be on stand by April.

There isn't an airline on earth that will let you board an international flight without the required travel documents, the US will fine airlines that transport inadmissible persons to the US.

Further, the pube-bomber couldn't have gotten on the plane in Nigeria without a passport, I have been through airport security in Nigeria many times. You could probably get past them with a grenade launcher, but not without a valid visa for your final destination. Further airlines have their own security checking travel documents.

People who board and plane and then claim asylum at their destination are a massive headache for airlines, nobody gets on an international flight without the appropriate travel documents.

He is just an attention seeking nutcase. He gives Americans a bad name with his fantastic conspiracy theories.

then he probably is worth listening to..

:crazy:

You are willing to listen to this guy's outrageous conspiracy theories? We know he is not telling the truth. There is zero evidence backing him up yet he continues on.

I was just kidding..
bad joke I guess

I imagine if you had witnessed that then you would continue on as well. Since he saw it, he doesn't need any outside verification.

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Guess that confirms this is the latest scripted talking point from Message Discipline LLC

Could you tell me what you mean? Thanks friend.

nt

I don't get this at all. If the tape is being kept secret due to an ongoing investigation, what purpose is served by playing investigator/accuser without knowing all the facts. I've seen things in crime scenes that were not on the news - so what? Where's the beef?

I got my passport checked at least twice going through there - and they make you go through one security line, and in addition, they have security lines at each gate for international flights. How this guy got past security without a passport is just simply mind-boggling.

No refugee travels with a passport, they are stateless. If you wanted to gain entrance onto a flight in as inconspicuous manner as possible then the last thing you would do is to claim to be a "refugee" because they require MORE not less documentation including documents from international agencies in addition to refugee visas from the host country.

In any case all of the reports, including those from the very begining before the name was released, clearly identified the unsuccessful bomber as a Nigerian national.

This has been kicked to near the top of the GP simply because the man said "your government is lying to you"!!!!!!!

Says a lot about the mentality of all too many here.

And he could do it freely, thanks to Chuck Norris Action Jeans.


Incidentally, are we sure this guy is a lawyer? He writes like a sophomore who's trying to sue Pizza Hut for not giving him enough pepperoni.

Eyewitness reports are often confusing and unreliable.

It's information that needs to be reconciled with the facts and we are not important enough to be told everything pertinent.

There will be more money for war and less liberty for you and me. Any doubt?

And ruin his life. Along with his wife.

There is something rotten in Denmark ... Er DC

He's a divorce lawyer - half the people who know him, hate him.

let the chips fall where they may.

For once.

and it damned well better be, that investigation is dead the second the tape comes out if it gives away other more-viable leads that are not being publically disclosed. I'm siding with the investigation on this one...if Haskell is not lying, it will come out in time.

On the other hand, if he is lying...I hope they destroy his life. (Send him to prison, see him disbarred, large fines that cripple him economically for life.) I have no patience for attention-seekers in these situations...all the patience I had was derailed by living in DC during the sniper spree when that investigation was sidetracked for 3 days because of a false eyewitness who wanted to get their face on TV and make a payday; in the meanwhile the rest of us got to live in a shooting gallery.

His whole point is that viable leads are being covered up.

I think he's trying to make a buck and has nothing to add in terms of honest testimony. I think he's a fraud. I think that he knows the tape won't back up his account, but also that the tape won't be released and that he can increase his credibility by calling for its' release.

know that the tape won't be released. I mean how would anyone be able to know that? Did Janet Jackson show a nipple? It makes no sense to think he knows the tape won't be released.

Unless there is a compelling reason to release the tape (which if as I postulate reveals nothing) they wont. It's very simple, maybe the tape on first glance shows nothing in terms of this or any lead but might contain information that only later becomes apparent as important...except that it's now useless because the tape was publicly disclosed. He knows that...hell, I thought everybody knew that.

They will not reveal the tape without a reason to reveal the tape.

released, revealing his story to be inaccurate. I have no dog in this fight. I know I would think long and hard about making up a story for which I know there is video which would disprove my story. But I don't really know one way or the other and, in actuality, none of us here know. We can have an opinion but we do not know.

These terrorists just like 9-11, the shoe bomber, and the panty bomber.

We need everyone in he world looking for this guy.

It's like having a bank robber photo and not releasing - reeks of a cover up.

While we're at it though, just in case, we should look for Nicole Brown Simpson's "real" (non-OJ) killer, the black guy that kidnapped Susan Smith's kids and the one-armed man.

These terrorists just like 9-11, the shoe bomber, and the panty bomber.

We need everyone in he world looking for this guy.

It's like having a bank robber photo and not releasing - reeks of a cover up.

and you just realized this? :banghead:

A light on the background of Yemen and and whats at stake provides http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2009/12/30/billions-in-recent-yememi-investments-and-the-underwear-bombers-daddy-its-a-small-world-aint-it/

excerpt:

men are very fond of their crotches. They might risk that on a suicide mission since they'll die anyway...but for some pseudo-plot? Just don't think so