At some point you just say you are done. And I am at that point.

I spent several hours with my X today. She has 11 prescriptions, some of which she cannot get covered with her state insurance (which runs out at end of month). She is going to the hospital tomorrow, I asked her to promise me she would ask them to admit her and try to find out what is all wrong with her. She is coughing up blood, has two brain cysts, parkinson's disease (though it may be MS), and can hardly talk right now.

She has been to urgent care and the hospital several times in the last few weeks. When my daughter is over I just tell her mommy is getting a checkup. And I hope she has not heard the conversations I have had with dad about it all. One Dr. thinks she may have brain cancer. She is worried our little girl will just remember as someone who is sick all the time.

I am done. Simply done with all this debate over health care and such.

She can't get her cough syrup with codeine because the state won't pay for it (I have given her my own codeine, which I only take when I am in really bad pain a few times a year - I guess by law I am a criminal for giving someone else my scrips).

I have an 8 year old daughter who wants her mommy to be ok - and I, and her new husband, cannot make that happen. All because we don't have enough money.

What am I supposed to tell my little girl? That her mom is sick and cannot get the care she needs because she does not have enough cash???

Should I tell her daddy is not able to help her because I was laid off? How do I explain to her that I worked my ass off for years for various companies but they laid me off because money for investors was more important than anything else? How do I tell her that doing your best means nothing really, and that the only thing that matters is how much cash you have?

I am done. I voted for change, and I want it. Change when it comes to wars (have two sons heading out to those wars soon), change when it comes to how we treat corporations, change when it comes to the homeless, etc.

My own issues are but are a small thing really, I know that. From gay folks wanting DADT repealed to folks fighting for single payer, from our homeless friends wanting something to change to help them to others like me unemployed with personal issues that are eating away at them - where is our help, our bailout?

I want to work. I want my X to have the health care she needs. I would work two or three jobs, if I could find them. I want my daughter to grow up knowing others are concerned about her well being and her health. Seems like the right was all concerned when the X was pregnant but the minute we had a child she was on her own - if I don't 'work' enough and she suffers, well that is her fault - if her mom cannot afford to get the care she needs, that is her mom's fault.

Done. Simply done with it all. All of the politics, keeping powder dry, making compromises, and so on.

You want my vote? Then do what I put you in office to do. If you are not going to that, then screw you.

And, if they don't measure up? Well, we lay them off (elect others).

The difference is that they'd just end up as lobbyists on K street.

pre-approved corporate candidate. There are no others to choose from except in a few minor house "races".

I'm sorry to hear about your difficult times, and I share your frustration.

I hope you're able to get things stabilized, and that your ex gets better.

Why not? They're just fine with killing us.

It's deliberate murder, with malice aforethought. No question those insurance bastards are deliberately killing us.

in the first degree.

un-American. As long there is a profit is to be made, no amount of human suffering is too great. Apparently that's in the Constitution because our so called "representatives" sure act like it is.

I have to disagree with the OP where he said that "My own issues are but are a small thing really." BULLSHIT. No developed society should subject people to that type of treatment. Plain and simple. Health care should be a right and not a privilege. It should be freely available to every citizen of the country and could probably be fully paid for by closing loopholes that allow rich people to dodge paying their fair share. If not, didn't Obama say HCR would be paid for by repealing the Bush tax cuts? So where is that part in the current HCR bill?

No, TSS, paying for or receiving health care is not something you or you X should have to worry about. At least, not in a civilized society anyway. Apparently the US has yet to rise to that level. So sorry for your troubles. Too bad we don't have elected representatives that are willing to do their jobs instead of sell us out at the turn of a hat.

They just smile and joke about it. I guess we should feel bad since we want a pony.

I didn't know in the past couple of years.

And Congress tells us, abused as the American people are, what a great job they've done by writing into this bill, that five years from now, Private Insurance Corps won't be able to refuse to cover people who are sick! How lucky are we to live in the 'best country in the world'! :sarcasm:

This is what SHOULD have happened. A law, separate from any health care legislation, should have been passed immediately making it a crime for a Health Ins. Co. to refuse to cover sick people. I didn't believe it when I first heard it. It is so unbelievable that this has been tolerated, it is nothing short of criminally negligent homocide or manslaughter at least.

They were entrusted with the health and safety of the American people, and they let them die rather than spend money to keep them alive. It IS a crime. And if they can't afford to do that, then they should get out of the business.

I am absolutely getting more and more angry at people who tell me how wonderful this bill is, because look how lucky we are, in five years Congress will make the Ins. Corps stop committing this crime. It is those people who are willing to accept this abuse from their government who are responsible for the rest of us not being able to force Congress to do what is right and accept the fact that Health Care is a right, it is not a commodity.

And the only acceptable solution is to get rid of the useless middle men who are sucking up money badly needed for health care, and set up a Single Payer system immediately. Clearly this is an emergency. If people dying every day doesnt' constitute an emergency, what does?

Involves declaring war on some third world nation.


I am right with you on everything you said.

that in the USA companies have a legal right to deny coverage to people with "pre existing conditions" They do not understand how the USA can be so inhumaine. it is too "foreign" to them.

It is the same here in Germany. It is inconceivable to people that someone would be denied coverage due to "pre-existing conditions". For heaven's sake, *life* itself could be declared to be a pre-existing condition!

My son and daughter-in-law have invited me to live with them in Texas once I retire. How can I in good conscience do that? With the health care I receive in Germany there are no great financial worries if aches and pains or even serious illnesses strike. If I were to forfeit this coverage by moving to Texas permanently and then needed extensive medical care, I could possibly leave my son and daughter-in-law destitute. So I believe it is for the best to only visit them twice a year for a few weeks at a time and keep my health care coverage here in Germany. It is a sad trade-off... I have a wonderful grandchild I would love to see grow up on a daily basis, but worry about the possible consequences of my "indulgence".

All I can offer are my personal wishes for better days ahead somehow, Straight Story.

:hug:

not helping someone in danger, if you can help in a way that poses no danger to you, is a crime here in France "non aide d'un personne en danger". If I see someone drowning I dont have to jump in and risk my life but if I dont call a lifeguard, or the fire department then I have committed a crime.

!

Sympathies to all involved.

But, please don't blame Obama for all of the delay trickery that has been done by the Republicans.
Obama had hoped for a bill by August.

Are there any Neighborhood Clinics in the area?

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:spray:

you owe me a keyboard....

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Obama got the bill he wanted in the first place. No single payer, no public option, just a handout to the insurance companies.

The Senate Bill impedes future improvements and is fascist (mandates for private purchase or IRS enforcement) and eugenic in nature.

horribly right before his eyes, to not blame anyone in our government? They are ALL put there to get the job done and have not done it. In five years(which is how long this bill will take to finally start kicking in), you KNOW a person that ill will not fare well.

Sometimes sympathy means swallowing your pride for a minute for the other person's benefit. Pick another time to be all defensive about President Obama. TSS needs a shoulder right now and some understanding, not a lecture defending a politician.

is because of what Obama experienced with his mother.
The republicans HAVE delayed it as much as possible.

Yes, the government is at fault - because it is bought and paid for by the insurance companies.

Obama is trying to fix this with this bill.

And I did express sympathy.

and help you can recieve from "Public Health" if you can't afford health care or insurance. I begged our "public health" people to get me a proper psychiatrist/therapist I could talk to and I got a reading of the yellow pages listings. They'll test me for AIDS for free, but they won't test my wife for the potential problems she might have. We need to come up with about $1000 to find out if she's dying or not.

Just sadly, in too few cities around this country.

I was just making a suggestion to help.

Can they perform surgeries?

Can they treat cancer?

Can they deliver babies?

Can they conduct laboratory test?

Etc, etc, etc....


:shrug:

http://findahealthcenter.hrsa.gov/

Federally-funded health centers care for you, even if you have no health insurance. You pay what you can afford, based on your income. Health centers provide
•checkups when you're well
•treatment when you're sick
•complete care when you're pregnant
•immunizations and checkups for your children
•dental care and prescription drugs for your family
•mental health and substance abuse care if you need it

Health centers are in most cities and many rural areas. Click on the link above, type in your address and click the 'Find Health Centers' button to find health centers near you.


As example, here is info on the neighborhood health care centers in my area of CA:

http://www.fhcn.org/

Family HealthCare Network currently has 13 locations throughout Kings County and Tulare County of which 11 are clinical sites. Family HealthCare Network is a community-based organization governed by a Board of Directors, which is composed of community representatives and patients consumers.

Our purpose is defined by our mission statement:

“We provide quality healthcare to everyone in the communities we serve.”

This clinic provides health care to everyone, regardless of income or lack thereof.

Hope this helps. :hi:

For me, the closest clinic is 120 miles away.

in San Francisco every few months, and I've had to cancel the last 2 appts because I can't afford the expense. I'm truly sorry. :(

they want us to massacre each other.

even more than Congress. He has the platform, he could have created the movement that they could not ignore. He didn't want to. He started out with single payer off the table and never pushed publicly for any thing that he campaigned on.

There is a lot he could have done. He should have come out fighting. Yes he mite have lost, but at least the people would know he was on our side. It is clear to me he doesnt care. Profits are more important than human lives. He should take stories like the OP and tell the public that we wont stand for this. Go on TV and make it clear that no PO will continue these horror stories. Make opponents of HCR look like the bastards they are. Nancy Pelosi says we will try to hold the insurance companies accountable.

If rationalizing makes you able to accept this, then more power to you.

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and damn it if I need to be in "la résistance" if I need to in order to stop the oligarchs from doing to France what they have done to the USA. No way in hell i will sit there and let them destroy the world my little girl will grow up into.

The multinationals are on the march, and there will be a struggle for power.

I hope all of you are up to it.

Seeing what has happened to the US should be a warning to all of you!

...Yes, I can see "them" possibly having a go at this here in Germany as well with our Neo-Liberal Secretary of Health and his ilk. People are so used to our good system of health care that they will most likely miss words of warning which really should make their ears perk up. Too few Germans have any experience with the American "Health Care System" - an oxymoron if I've ever seen one.

Many years ago, I lived in various states (TX, CO, CA, FL, TN, NJ, MN) for 16 years as a single mother after the end of an ill-fated marriage; without health insurance, but blessed with youth and great health. At my current age (I'll be 58 in June) I shudder to think of the financial devastation an even minor illness might bring. Or perhaps even worse... not getting any care, knowing it would be available "if only". And all of this in the nation of "We're Number One".

It's not only sad, but it makes me want to bang my head against a brick wall in frustration and anger. I ask myself, how - just how? - can this be possible? And the only answer I can come up with is that corporate profits trump, always have and always will, the well-being of the individual human being.

How can we overcome these obstacles?

lose, and why.

It's only that sort of awareness that can prevent that takeover. And YOU have the experience that needs to be heard!

And, please don't bang your head against that brick wall.... it will increase your need for health care. :) :hug:

You're right. It's just so damn difficult when you're frustrated to "keep on keepin' on".

A big hug back to you. I've been reading your posts.... You are a stronger person than I could ever hope to be.

Sending you much love.

I know how hard it is.... really, I do.

You have much to say to younger Germans, and if you can find support from others to keep you going, you have the ability to make a big difference in your society.

Much more opportunity than I have with mine!

So much depends on getting that support, and I recognize that fully.

Best to you!

:hug:

:)

Thanks again for your kind words! :hug:

It's not quite 5 a.m. over here, and I just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate being made to feel so welcome at DU by you.

We can and must stand together in solidarity from continent to continent.

Wishing you a good day, and I look forward to getting a PM from you soon!

:party: :bounce: :toast::party: :bounce: :toast::party: :bounce: :toast::party: :bounce: :toast::party: :bounce: :toast::party: :bounce: :toast::party: :bounce: :toast::party: :bounce: :toast::party: :bounce: :toast::party: :bounce: :toast::party: :bounce: :toast::party: :bounce: :toast::party: :bounce:

Sorry... I forgot my manners! :pals:

Now, here's an idea... if you can just get your country to accept poor folk like me as immigrants, understanding that our very lives are threatened.

This country accepted immigrants from all over the world on an humanitarian and economic basis, and now that we are being so ignored here, it would be nice to be welcomed SOMEWHERE!

:loveya:

Being such a long-time lurker before finally taking the plunge here at DU, I recall from your posts that you have fallen on very hard times and are a vocal advocate for poor people.

I remained in the U.S. after my marriage fell apart, with a young son to raise and no support from his father; it was a horrible feeling to know I was only one missed paycheck away from losing my tiny apartment. For quite a while, ate bread with mustard to be able to afford my son's daycare and hot meals for him. And it was knowing I was all alone in this huge country, no relatives at all to turn to in case everything fell apart.

If only I could offer you real, practical help. I'll be glad when I can send and receive PMs so we can talk more.

Germany actually does have lots of immigrants, many of them from various African countries who came here to seek political asylum, other to simply seek a better life for economic reasons. The immigration procedures are a bureacratic nightmare, though, same as any other country. Our citizens often groan and moan because our taxes are so high, but the social services system financed with them is very good. Folks receive help starting with baby buggies, furniture, a fridge and curtains, etc. These days, there's no way of knowing when an individual might need help, so the complainers should just keep quiet and think about how quick and brutal the descend into poverty can be.

It's of little help to you now Bobbo, I do realize that, but you're always welcome at my house!

so the red tape nightmare doesn't even begin for me.... and those like me. We are outcasts everywhere..... and we would work in a heartbeat, if we could!

You are so right about the younger people who don't understand the REASON for those taxes! That is what is so scary! They can turn your system inside out in a short time.... and the threat is always there as long as there are people who don't get why it is structured that way, and how it protects them. And, NOT just as "insurance" in case the sky falls on them--it is important for them to remember that they live in a relatively Safe society, because when people fall on hard time, they KNOW there is a safety net to catch them. When people don't have that, there is the spread of disease because of those who can't get treatment, and eventually, the lack of hope breeds crime, etc.

Its not about having more "things"--its about EVERYONE being assured they are considered valuable as human beings!

.

I don't have a family but I'm most unemployed too, with no prospects that I can see.

and I wish I could win the lottery. That would make it even easier.


:cry: :hug:

Someday I will be able to help others. I do what I can now by paying it forward. I have given money to many over the last few years when I had it.

I was employed, but was on family leave act and did not get some paychecks (ran out of vacation days, thought I had more than I did, nd had issues with corp credit card where the company told me many things relating to my trip were covered then later told me they were not). DU'ers stepped in and helped me out. I still get ripped for it on some sites where some folks have nothing better to do than rip on us.

I only wish for two things right now - one is to get my X a gift certificate for skydiving and to help her find her real mom, and I am working on all of that and I might be able to do it all between now and April.

Rarely do you hear of exes taking such good care of a sick ex. I bet you just being as supportive as you are is a great help to her and I'm sure your daughter appreciates it too. I hope your ex gets to find her mother, go skydiving. I hope she gets the medical treatment she needs and that you find a job you enjoy. Good luck. We are all pulling for you.

And yet he still can't find it in his heart to hate. Truly one of the good people in this world. Which is apparently why the world shits on us. We're good people eh SS? Seems to be how things are wired these days.
/cyinic off

that literally kept us off the streets. I had to chuck a lot of pride to cash that check.

Some of it was because I bashed Obama for being right of center and not caring. I knew the HCR bill was going to be an abortion, but some of you were more concerned about championing a politician. Now it becomes evident to all just whom we elected...that is, if you dare to open your eyes for a second.

DU really isn't a very nice place. I'm in serious trouble and a lot of you took it as an opportunity to kick me while I was down. Fuck you for that. I guess only high profile people like Andy Stephenson (whom I tried to help and sincerely miss) get a little consideration from DU.

Yeah, I may be flawed. We all are. But that doesn't mean I don't deserve health care. BTW, fuck you too, Arnold Schwarzenegger.

I don't know why the hell I've been visiting DU lately. Maybe I just like seeing the tide shift against Obama and the Democrats. Some of you will never learn.

It's already too late for some of us.

I guess that is a downside of online forums, where people don't actually see who they're talking to. That is no excuse for the lack of empathy, but I know there are still many caring, compassionate people here. The loud and rude often drown them out.

For many of us, it is not just about political objectives. It is truly personal and time is crucial.

Too often people don't think about the effect their words have on others. This is especially true on the Internet where we don't always see that effect. That is why I try to choose my words carefully and try not to be reactive.

I've been through some major health issues recently myself, but I know I'm much too vulnerable to share them with strangers right now. I've seen what a handful of people can do with a few poorly chosen words, when it might be better to say nothing at all.

Right now I can't take any form of rejection. Period. Even if I deserve it.

So, generally I'm avoiding places like DU, except for today. I guess I'm just really pissed off and want to blow off some steam, inconsiderate assholes be damned. Maybe that's what those "compassionate" people were doing in my thread about how I might be dying from lack of good health care. Still...little ol' me: Isn't that a really bad target?

I'm also in the mood to say "I told you so" about the Democrats and Obama. That isn't very nice, but it does feel a little cathartic. Probably I'll regret it later. Maybe not.

I've learned the hard way long ago to be self-protective, especially when I'm very vulnerable. The past few weeks, every emotion has come to the surface and it doesn't take much to set me off - both tears and anger. Out of self preservation, I'm trying really hard to avoid confrontation, at least until I'm stronger. Life really, really is short and I don't want to waste a single moment.

I'm trying to keep politics to a minimum right now, but it isn't easy. HCR set me off a while ago and drained me of much needed energy. I had very realistic expectations and the Senate didn't even come close to meeting those. Right now I'm really sympathetic to anyone who doesn't have the time to wait for them to get it right.

..and I'm sad that you are not safe to even discuss it. That is a real tragedy.

Its sad we have to be so protective of ourselves, especially on a site where we should be able to freely share, but that seems to be how it is.

I'm glad you're choosing to protect yourself rather than becoming just as hard as the others.

To your health! :toast:

:toast:

It is very sad that you aren't feeling sad to even discuss it here, but I understand, and am glad you are protecting your boundaries.

Be good to yourself, and I hope you feel better very soon!

I'm so sorry for all you are going through.

This is soooo wrong.

You are in my thoughts.

Agreed. Sorry to hear about your troubles. My life is so uncomplicated in comparison. Thank you for the wakeup.

Bring the troops home, give up on empire, and share the wealth. It is the ONLY way to fix what's wrong. Universal health care, a social service safety net, a government jobs programme, a socialist government and real democracy...and no, socialism and democracy are not antithecal concepts. Sweden is more democratic than the US. Education has to be a democratic process, not a process to fit people into temporary slots in the military-industrial complex.

I'm incredibly tired of the propaganda and the willingness of people to swallow it. I am amazed that the only people who don't think that America is an empire......are Americans.

*nodding*

that America will have any future with peak oil and the more severe effects of climate change just around the corner. How much illness is caused by all of the pollution, chemicals and GMOs that we're all exposed to daily? Cleaning up our act is a must, though corporate America will fight us tooth and nail every step of the way.

r

I hope, really hope, some good break comes that way soon.

hang in there. i truly hope things look up for you.

If I have could have anything in this life right now it would be to see them both happy.

it is not immoral and good weed gets you 3000 dollars a pound wholesale, and over 5 grand per pound broken up in most states... I would if I had to but I roll in social circles full of smokers.

I'm in eastern NY. 150 to the border.

edit to add: if I can be of any help please pm me.

:hug:

I am certain we can at least do that much. Please. How much does she need, and do you have a paypal account?

I have been ripped for years by others on other sites because folks here helped me out one time. I don't want to go through such again. Ever.

I'll make do, I have my unemployment checks. I already feel bad enough because of the help I got here once, and I won't go through all of that again.

I really respect your kindness and desire to help, more than you can know. If you can help folks near you please do so. I will make sure, come hell or high water, I can help my X out with things.

Those are the same people who caused Andy Stephenson to die. Why the hell do you care what THEY say? They are sick, evil, twisted human beings who get pleasure from watching others suffer. Fuck them.

And in case they are reading this, I will repeat: FUCK THEM.

And for you -> :hug:

"I have been ripped for years by others on other sites because folks here helped me out one time."
Then they're heartless bastards and their opinions should be utterly ignored.
You have my deepest sympathies and the offer of any help I can give.

Forget about what people say. If the community wants to help you out in your time of need, then that's really saying something about the community here.

I'd be glad to donate to help you out. It's clear the government doesn't care enough about the people to help, so its up to us to help where we can.

I can only say that I hope you and your loved ones have a better year this year..

:hug:

boy was that a mistake

You two turned someone's pain into a cheerleading post for the dem party. How proud you must feel.

zalinda

Oh, looks like I don't need to.

Maybe you should go back to posting flamebait rather than taking a shit in other people's threads.

posts is a constant bashing of the actual Democrats, who are the voting members of this Party, not the elected officials suckling the milk of public monies. Right here you are bashing a Democrat who is dealing with a very hard time. All you do is bash Democrats. All day, everyday.

:thumbsup:

The poster is a huge hypocrite. Claims he hates people who splinter the Party then spends all his time doing just that.

I don't have to support a fifth column and even if I did, I'd definately be "bashing Democrats". Would you complain about that?

And it's why so few take you seriously. When you figure it out get back to me.

The lack of coherence in your position is indicated by your inability and/or to answer simple questions about it's ramifications. The simple fact is that pretty much any group that plans to survive has to deal with unconstructive critics.

Maybe you could just ignore everyone that bothers to complain or anyone that expresses the very grievances that ought to thrust a democrat into office in the first place.

That'll show them...I mean us... or maybe them.

I hope in the real world you are a more decent human being.

By their words ye shall know them.

incredibly disgusting...

Don't vote for moderates and such, yeah I can see where some would get that :)

We want change, but change does not come until we get people into power who also really want change.

I don't vote for a party, I vote for an ideal. And SOME in the dem party don't share those ideals.

"We welcome Democrats of all stripes, along with other progressives who will work with us to achieve our shared goals."
This is a direct quote from DU mission statement at the About Us link on the home page.

There is nothing there about loyalty to the Democratic party.

I can remember when I myself was castigated for my own advocacy of loyalty to the Dem party by the many Greens that belonged to this site in it's beginnings. I was told "that kind of thinking won't fly around here".LOL

Progressives working with us does not mean that they have to join the Dem party or praise it's representatives.

In the rules section:

2. Who We Are: Democratic Underground is an online community for Democrats and other progressives. Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, and to support Democratic candidates for political office. Democratic Underground is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, and comments posted here are not representative of the Democratic Party or its candidates.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html

If you click into the detailed rules, it gets even more specific:

Democratic Candidates and the Democratic Party

Constructive criticism of Democrats or the Democratic Party is permitted. When doing so, please keep in mind that most of our members come to this website in order to get a break from the constant attacks in the media against our candidates and our values. Highly inflammatory or divisive attacks that echo the tone or substance of our political opponents are not welcome here.

You are not permitted to use this message board to work for the defeat of the Democratic Party nominee for any political office. If you wish to work for the defeat of any Democratic candidate in any General Election, then you are welcome to use someone else's bandwidth on some other website.

Democratic Underground may not be used for political, partisan, or advocacy activity by supporters of any political party or candidate other than the Democratic Party or Democratic candidates. Supporters of certain other political parties may use Democratic Underground for limited partisan activities in political races where there is no Democratic Party candidate.

Do not post broad-brush smears against Democrats or the Democratic Party. http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

I think this is very clear.

:kick:

economic class buddy, how quickly the shallow minded forget that.

Gore has integrity, Obama none.

"has done"... to justify your inhuman attempt to turn this into a "be afraid of Republicans, even though Democrats pass shitty shit shit even with a SuperMajority..."

You are a pimple on the ass of political analysis. I will, with only the greatest of effort, resist throwing epithets in your general direction commensurate with the offensiveness of what you have here said.

your precious "democrats" are destined for epic fail.
they aren't worth bothering to go to the polls for, let alone taking the time to cast a vote.
I will, however, bother to go to be able to write in a name or vote 3rd party.
from now on, as a registered Independent, I will be voting only for candidates with a proven RECORD of legislation and action benefiting We The People, not wealthy billionaires.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Bush didn't win that election. The Florida recount was illegally stopped by the Supreme Court and we all know now, well maybe not you, but the rest of us know that Al Gore actually won Florida and had the court not stopped the recount and APPOINTED Bush Gore would have won. So you can stop blaming people on the internet for "giving us Bush". The Supreme Court "gave us Bush". Get your facts straight.

Your lack of compassion for another persons pain is disturbing.

Florida was fixed, need I mention more than the word diebold for 2004? I would say fuck gore for not standing up but I think both he and obama, and clinton for that matter, got a little talking to from people with pictures of their kids coming and going from school and told that if they push their kids will die. The forces we are up against are the most hardcore set in the world, the crips and MC 13 are bullies on the playground compared to the folks that really run the show, hell the real gangsters that run the world dont even answer to the sicillian mafia

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There are thousands and thousands out there with similar stories, and there's no excuse for it.

I have no problem empathizing with this man's story.

I'm fortunate enough to be employed in a field that is secure and which pays enough that I'm able to provide a house and utilities for our unemployed son, who like many is experiencing an attack of economically-induced patriotism and will be joining the Army for the "opportunities" it will provide for him to take care of our pregnant daughter-in-law.

And I still remember what it was like when I was a student, my wife waited tables, and my young family was without medical insurance. Our son needed stitches, the the cost of the doctor kept protein sources other than peanut butter off of our family menu for a month.

I am done.

I am leaving.

I recommend anyone that has the ability to get the fuck off this sinking ship.

Even though it is pretty hard to recognize now.

It's been fun watching YOUR evolution, such as it is, LoZo.

Or paint dry.

I'm not going anywhere.

Why do people who quote the mission statement always leave that part out?

I've stated many times that I will not vote for democrats who do not support real healthcare reform. Why have I not been kicked off the site yet? There is nothing saying that you MUST vote for a democrat to be on this site. I do support progressive democrats and if one runs I will vote for them if they have the voting record to back up their promises, but I will not vote for democrats who promise something and then don't deliver and I will not apologize for that and I will not leave this site either.

...but you can't actively campaign against the Democrat or for a third party candidate, so the statement about supporting Democrats does mean something.

I've seen people discussing the differences between progressive democrats, moderate democrats, and conservative democrats. I'm all for campaiging for a good progressive democrat if one is available, but when one is not available I have the freedom to chose to not vote for the moderate or conservative democrat.

But I've been here for 5 years and I have seen DUers promote 3rd party candidates. Some would not stop after being warned and were banned. Suggesting that others not vote in the weeks before an election is not something I think is productive - at some point Republicans can benefit from Democratic ambivalence - they certainly aren't going to promote our agenda - that's for sure.

Me and those like me want to see the Democratic party be held accountable to the voters. When the politicians are not afraid of the voters anymore they know they can do anything they want with no accountability. I believe in the Democratic Party. I have voted democrat in every election for 14 yrs and every year I've seen the party go farther and farther to the right and become more accountable to the corporate lobbyists than to the voters. I want to vote for a democrat but will not unless their voting record can prove that they are accoutable to the voter and not the lobbyists.

I disagree about the methods of some folks here - infighting is not going to do anything more than harden the resolve of either side and it also makes this board and others like it lose some ability to influence anything as the rhetoric is too 'hot' here and it drives away those who come here to see what's going on with the left. It may be inappropriate and infuriating that Chris Matthews called boards like DU "nuts", but he wasn't completely off-base in doing so.

Many of us do write and call our Congressmen and Congresswomen. I have a right to be here and express my views just as you are. I'm not going anywhere. I think I will just move on to another post now. Have a good night.

Seriously, what happened?? We were discussing this and all of a sudden you acted like I was suppressing you?

All I said was that I disagreed that posting here has any effect WRT holding them accountable - I never suggested that you not do it!

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oops that was a double post.

there should be no active campaiging for Liberman, who ran against a Democrat to win his senate seat.

In 2006, I was a member of our DEC. I HAD to support Democratic candidates, and I actually held my nose voting for Jim Davis for Governor of Florida. Not that I liked Charlie Crist, but I didn't like Davis personally or politically.

I resigned from that DEC in protest, when our new majority in Congress voted to keep funding the Iraq war.

I changed my voter registration to "No Party Affiliation" when they voted for FISA.

As I say now, I'll never vote for a Republican, but there's quite a few Dems I'll never vote for either. You want my vote, time, and money? You gotta earn it.

no criticism of Obama allowed.

That's what you and the rest of your gang want. Just admit it.

Here's the quote:
There's absolutely no party loyalty test there, nor does it say we have to support every Democrat in every single vote on every single issue.

Who We Are: Democratic Underground is an online community for Democrats and other progressives. Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, and to support Democratic candidates for political office. Democratic Underground is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, and comments posted here are not representative of the Democratic Party or its candidates.

I never said there was a party loyalty test, but it is clear that we are expected to support Democratic candidates at DU. http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html

What ever shall we do during primaries?! Must we support both (D) candidates?

that matters, it's what you post. You are not allowed to work for the defeat of a Democratic candidate against either a third-party or a Republican (obviously). I didn't make the rules, but I've been here long enough to understand them and see them enforced during the election season. :shrug:

I've been here longer. Whee! Your point? :shrug:

The rules do not require DUers to support Democrats in every election. To suddenly shift the goalposts from "...who support Democrats" (as you posted above) to "...who don't make posts claiming that they're working to defeat Democrats"--and then to throw up your hands and claim that Skinner should be consulted regarding rules nuance and application--isn't particularly laudable.

I was quoting the more detailed rules that I figured you'd look into - here are the sections of the rules (with links) for your information:

In the basic rules section:

2. Who We Are: Democratic Underground is an online community for Democrats and other progressives. Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, and to support Democratic candidates for political office. Democratic Underground is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, and comments posted here are not representative of the Democratic Party or its candidates.

If you click into the http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html">detailed rules, it gets even more specific:

Democratic Candidates and the Democratic Party

Constructive criticism of Democrats or the Democratic Party is permitted. When doing so, please keep in mind that most of our members come to this website in order to get a break from the constant attacks in the media against our candidates and our values. Highly inflammatory or divisive attacks that echo the tone or substance of our political opponents are not welcome here.

You are not permitted to use this message board to work for the defeat of the Democratic Party nominee for any political office. If you wish to work for the defeat of any Democratic candidate in any General Election, then you are welcome to use someone else's bandwidth on some other website.

Democratic Underground may not be used for political, partisan, or advocacy activity by supporters of any political party or candidate other than the Democratic Party or Democratic candidates. Supporters of certain other political parties may use Democratic Underground for limited partisan activities in political races where there is no Democratic Party candidate.

Do not post broad-brush smears against Democrats or the Democratic Party.

DUers are not, in fact, required to support Democrats. Rather, they're restricted from promoting other parties, smearing the party, etc. But frequent and colorful criticism of Holy Joe (before he became an outright traitor), other DINOs, and the DLC is certainly allowed, and in fact has been occurring since DU's inception.

I've read the rules many times, but I'm glad you posted them for others to see. That should clear up the whole "cheerleader vs. traitor" meme that's been floating about here for the past year.

"Democrats and other progressives". But the Democratic Party at least on the national level seems to have been taken over by non-progressives. The divisiveness I see here is between progressives and the new conservative wing of the Party. As the republican party implodes more and more republicans start calling themselves Democrats. We could work to defeat Sen Specter when he was a republican, but now he is a Democrat we cant (on DU). He is the same man.

are we to understand that Liberman and Sanders supporters are to be kicked off this site because those senators are not Democrats?

in Vermont ever run a candidate against Sanders in a general election? I'm sure he and Leahy are on different cycles.

so only Liberman supporters risk being kicked off seeing as he ran AGAINST a Democrat to win his seat.

I can say that my homestate of Illinois, and my homecountry of the USA are fucked. I will likely never live there again. I blog here because I hope that one day the USA will actually be run for the people....

i'll have to ride this one all the way to the bottom.

as well as Communist if I see it in the USA, in France I vote Communist, Green, and Socialist.

This is a major pooch screw, pure and simple, and the Dems have nobody to blame for it but themselves. So really, how fucking good are these people if they are literally willing to let people get sick and die because they can't afford good health care, just so they can score some political points? These aren't "Good" anythings, buddy. So fuck the teabaggers, and fuck the dems for being so goddamned spineless it's not even funny.

Those of use who have lost or are in the process of losing loved ones due in no small part to our current health care system have every right in the world to be fed up with this bullshit.

Fuck 'em and corporate whores they rode in on.

I am sorry your family is suffering so much. We stand by you in your fight and are ready to fight along side you. My vote will only go to those who have voting records that prove they want real healthcare. I just found out my two democratic senators voted against allowing prescriptions from other countris into the US. Those are two democrats who will not be getting my vote and I know at least one of them is up for re-election in 2010. When those who suffer the most stand together the people can find their strength, their voice and make change happen. We can't rely on the promises of politicians. We have to stand with the politicians who actually have the voting record and throw out the politicians who only promise change but don't deliver.

but don't go wandering off alone --

try to unite with other liberals/progressives and discuss Plan B!

As long as the Democratic Party has only the neo-fascist GOP for competition,

it will continue to move to the right.

I really try to buy non corporate stuff, used things, I avoid name brands like the plague. I will not give my time, or money, to my overlords if I can prevent it. I dont even do it when I get high, my weed comes either from my friends house, or from Afghanistan, and yes i do like puffing on hash that funds fighters trying to kick the USA out of their country. I am an American but I dont know how long I will hold on to that nationality for....

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However, things simply get worse if you don't vote. That's a half-vote to Republicans, whose influence got us into this huge mess to begin with.

For now, were stuck with a two-party system, and the problem is constitutional and not cultural. There has never been a third party, in the whole history of this country, that has gone anywhere. Even one headed by the best candidate possible, Teddy Roosevelt.

So, voting right now is more or less just holding the line. This political system can't do anything without sweeping changes, and those won't happen until things get so bad people don't stop voting, but they actually sweep it away.

For now, the best thing is to vote.

The (R)s

"Founded by anti-slavery expansion activists in 1854, it is often called the Grand Old Party or the GOP"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_(United_States)

I'd bet there are lots of partisans here that believe Lincoln was a (D)

The Whigs had collapsed. Nothing had come in to replace them. It was the Democratic-Republicans who ruled at that time.

That did leave an opening for a second party, and look at the turmoil it took for that to happen!

Unlike most any other constitution, ours does not allow for parties. Other Constitutions recognize parties as a fact and build their legislative structures allowing them. Ours doesn't even mention them. The Founders thought parties were a very bad thing and specifically wrote the Constitution to discourage them. Ironically, if it had worked as planned, we would have one-party rule. And we did for a few decades before the Civil War.

I always say to 3rd party people that we can't pretend we have a parliamentary system when we don't. If you don't vote for any reason, at least vote defensively, and get more involved with the primaries.

Remember Pelosi the day after the '06 elections saying ...

"Dems were elected to end the wars!" --

The reality is that not only was their a coup on JFK in '63, there was a coup on our

"people's" government -- and a coup on the Democratic Party.

They weren't going to let the party survive to actually investigate right wing political

violence, to bring them to justice!

The Democratic Party has been taken over --

We continue to hope that enough remained that we could resuscitate it --

We realize that the leaders we are given are selected for us --

but we keep hoping.

You and your family deserve all necessary and humane health care -- without profit.

I think at this point we have to start calling ourselves either "Used to be America"

.... or simply "America"/?

There can be no debate when people are suffering -- when children and mothers and fathers

are suffering. This is evil.

We've all been duped

I am so sorry.

I am damn lucky. No kids, no mortgage, no health problems. The rest of my family (siblings and parents) are doing ok and are not dependent on me.

Shit. I don't know. There is a rage and fear building in this country, and I don't know what is going to happen with it. The teabaggers use that rage and fear to retreat into their Reagan fantasy land, but I wonder about the rest of us. What is going to be the long term consequence of all this?

Will we get reform, despondency, or what?

What were the long term psychological effects of the depression?

I hope you can find the help she needs somehow. :hug:

I am truly sorry to hear of your pain, you, your ex-wife and your daughter will be in my thoughts and prayers. :hug:

;)

I understand you more from now many years.

You are kind and I understand this by experience.

Politics and policy in the USA is dysfunctional.

This does not help in personal relations.

Trickle down economy is an unscientific myth.

Trickle up kindness is not a myth.

Best to you.

I can understand how you feel. Enough is enough...you do just hit that wall. Damn.


What I can't understand is how many people here have no compassion for what another...so many others, are going through. Like being a loyal Dem is what life is all about....party before people. What a crock.

:hug: Straight Story and everyone else getting screwed by our joke of a "healthcare" system.

Damn....just damn.

remarks that touch us all.

The only thing I can say to you, is that you are not alone. There are so many people in your situation, and I undertand your frustration.

I don't know what state you are in, or what it's requirements are, whether your wife has any kind of insurance or if she owns a home, that often figures into what kind of help may be available to you. I only know in my state, this is what I would do, if your wife has no insurance. Contact your local hospitals and ask what types of financial aid they have for people without insurance. Most hospitals will have some form of donor-provided aid, though it often takes a good deal of persistence to find out about them. Don't know if you have tried that yet. Community & teaching hospitals tend to be more lenient. If she has insurance or not, if she is employed or not..they will base the fee for hospitalization on a sliding scale. I know this might not be much help, but it's the only thing I can think of right now.

You are right to urge your wife to get herself admitted, she sounds like she is very ill, and tests need to be peformed to find out exactly what's wrong, so she can be helped. Tell her she must, for the sake of her daughter. And for right now, forget about costs, they can't get blood from a stone. Worry about that later. And even if you can't pay for it later...to hell with it.

I know you are in a terrible situation right now. But I have to say this. I admire you more than I can say, for the concern you show your ex-wife & your child. With so many men running out on their families these days, I was stunned to hear of your love and compassion for your ex and your child. It's just not something you see a lot of these days. You are a wonderful man.

If I think of anything else that might help, I will pm you, my husband is in the medical field & i will ask him if he knows of anything else that can be done to help. I know it's not much, but I will pray for you and your family.

And please ignore some people and their insulting remarks. They're jerks and aren't worth a minute of your time. If they were in your situation, they probably run out on their families in a NY minute. Nothing about them is to be admired.

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I hope you find some solutions for your problems.

I mean no offense, but I am often told "I hope things get better for you" or "I'm praying for you."

Hope and pray in one hand. Shit in the other. See which one fills up first.

This message board is fucking meaningless and I'm just as guilty as the rest of you. We come here and bitch about our problems and do absolutely nothing to solve them. Currently, I'm seriously ill, so I think I get a bit of a pass...maybe not. The only thing I've done to help the situation was send some money to DFA recently.

So, here's a challenge (to myself as well): What are WE going to do to help those suffering because they can't afford health care? (Or in my case, don't have access to health care because all the good doctors got laid off.)

Tell me.

Show me.

and I don't have medical training. There are a lot of hurting people out there that I would like to help on an individual basis, but I can't, so I work through my church's (NON-PROSELYTIZING!) programs, especially the one that provides meals and medical care (including condoms) to low-income youth, including street youth.

I was a massive dick-head. I know you're feeling a lot of pain right now and I should have taken the time to consider where you were coming from before posting my little fit. We're all a little on edge these days, but that doesn't mean that we should lose sight of our compassion as liberal Democrats. I did just that and I was wrong. And when you replied to my idiotic post, you didn't even respond in kind! :hug: You took the time to write a reasoned explanation of where you were coming from and why you feel so hopeless right now (glad I cut and pasted into Word as I can read it now). We did get that win in 2008. I haven't given up yet (I am incapable of giving up - it's just the way I'm wired), and I hope that someday soon we can once again unite to change the direction of this country. I know the change isn't (and never does) coming fast enough, but we can't give up now - the fight is too important and surely our opponents will take advantage if given the opportunity.

Anyway, all the best to you and your family. Sorry for all the fuss (and to anybody else who I upset). :hug:

yes INDEED

Let's have a beer and forget it :) we got a lot to work on in the days ahead. And hell, you kept that thread going :rofl:

Man, it's 2:30 AM and a beer would be fine with me :toast: Today was memorable - tomorrow it's back to grinding out a living and working to make this country a better place. Thanks for being a good sport.

:)

That was big of you. For real. A lot of us are hurting badly . It is demoralizing to come here and see slap downs of poor, sad people. You give me hope for DU.

I know from experience with family, near and distant.

I'm going to keep it in mind with every election in which I participate and every political contribution I make.

As a nation, our priorities are completely wrong.

I am having trouble with the lack of compassion expressed by so many.

So I'll just give you a hug across the internet. I know it seems stupid, but I mean it.

:hug:

Don't give up on DU, politics, or life. You're a great guy and I enjoy your posts. I hope the best for you, your X, and your family.

looks like Jesus (well, how we in the western world see him anyway). He is kind of messed up right now, won't go into details, but when Josh and Zach were here over Christmas (my other two sons) they showed me a video of him and Zach sent him a text message that said 666. Nathaniel freaked out (he is a big bible thumper, nothing wrong with that IMHO, but relevant to this story). Nathaniel called Josh 5 minutes later all freaked out by it.

Have not talked to him in 10 years, hopefully this year I will. My other sons have told him to call or email me. He is just not ready.

If there ever was a Jesus of Suburbia, it is him LOL.

:hug: to you and your X.

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royaly.

Hang in there SS. You are not alone.

Many of us share your sentiment, and we stand with you.

Peace be to you and your family.

:hug:

K&R.

:hug:

I have not had access to health care for 10-15 years now. One of these days I will just lay down and die. I am blessed in having no one, really, who would have to be anguished by that. My heart goes out to everyone in the world who is made to suffer because of politicians' greed and cruelty.

I don't know you, hell I don't even know if I have ever replied to a post you made (I don't keep track of such things) but if you feel you are not loved or cared about, you would be WRONG.

You replied to my thread - I am hurting, in a lot of pain emotionally, and you took the time to reply to me. You don't have 'no one'. You have me, and friends here.

If you ever need a friend, PM me - and I will call you up. I don't care about where you are or where you have been in life - let me know if you need someone and I will be there as best I can. Least I can do.

I have my issues, but I am not the only one - and if I can help anyone I will. I don't have a lot of money, don't have a lot of things, but I have a heart and love and I seriously care about others.

You PM me - if nothing else we can chat and you won't feel so alone. You have problems, I do too. Mine are not greater or bigger than anyone else's, I am just more vocal I suppose about mine.

You have stood shoulder to shoulder (figuratively) with many of us on DU, fighting for real progressive values. I hope for nothing but the best health for you. :hug:

though I've felt myself to be overly negative and critical--a "thread killer"--it is just "me" to see beyond the surface and know that everything is not right in this country and with our government, and I can't be satisfied with mediocre "compromise" and lack of commitment to those real progressive values.

I bought a house this summer and, because I work at home (as a freelance copy editor for a couple of websites and a university far away), have had very little opportunity to meet anyone in this town. I live in the boondocks of Maine, and most of my family all live on the West Coast. Days and days go by when I don't see another human being, and then it is usually someone I've paid to do some work around here--I never have visitors, since nobody knows me. That "gets to me" every now and then.
I am so fortunate not to have any serious health problems--and what problems I do have pale in comparison to the moving story in the OP (and I don't want to hijack this thread). I need to get involved in some sort of volunteer work, but that is difficult because I never know when my schedule will be clear. Thank you again for your kind words.

http://findahealthcenter.hrsa.gov/

Federally-funded health centers care for you, even if you have no health insurance. You pay what you can afford, based on your income. Health centers provide

•checkups when you're well
•treatment when you're sick
•complete care when you're pregnant
•immunizations and checkups for your children
•dental care and prescription drugs for your family
•mental health and substance abuse care if you need it

Health centers are in most cities and many rural areas. Click on the link above, type in your address and click the 'Find Health Centers' button to find health centers near you.

I don't know where in Maine you are (checked your profile) but there are 112 neighborhood health clinics in Maine... surely one is near you. You matter to me, to many other faceless people, and we want you to seek care. Please believe, please know.... we care. :hug: