All Republicans Are Evil: BULLSHIT!

I get so damn tired of hearing that.

Why I bring this up is this. The past weekend, I spent it with my partners parents in North Carolina. They are stanch Republicans. They've donated lots of money to the GOP over the years. I would NEVER try and change their minds about who to vote for, because they have their views and my partner and I have our. Although the other half likes to get his dad riled up sometimes.

When I first met them, it was rather distant. Not cold, but it wasn't like the greeting my SO got when he met my family. My family all but kissed his feet ..... "Oh thank God he met someone that's not a jerk and responsible".

I never felt anything but respect from his parents. After a few years, I have felt real love from them.

Our last trip 6 months ago, Michael's dad said to him following a talk about how Michael and his parents were distant for so many years, he father said "You have to understand that it was a shock for us to find out you were gay. It's not what I wanted for you in life. But, we both like Ron (me) a lot and we he is really a great guy."

This trip was even better. Michael's parents live in this wonderful retirement community in Wilmington, NC. His parents are very well off and they could afford go to a very nice place. They have a great condo that is part of a very nice community with a large pond with ducks, turtles, a bunch o' gooses and even a snake! They spend there time at the community dinning room where they have wonderful meals severed to them by a friendly staff along with some of the nicest and funniest people I've ever met.

Those people don't give a damn that we're gay. After our first trip together there, Micheal's mom said "Oh so-and-so keeps asking 'when are the boys coming back?'".

We play cards, watch the birds (Michael's parents have a bird house that has 4 baby blue birds in it right now), have cocktails, eat meals, talk and enjoy each other's company.

This trip was especially interesting when it came to politics. Saturday we wanted to go to the store to get some smokes for Michael and I. Michael has said, "Oh we'll go down the road to CVS." His mom said, "Well, CVS is further down the 17 (the highway). But I won't shop there. They have a policy of supporting the Boy Scouts. They (the Boy Scouts) discriminate against gays. When I found that out, we sold our stock in that place. I won't shop there." Another thing that was very cool. Michael asked his mom about abortion. She said, "That is a private issue between a woman and her doctor and MAYBE the father." Pretty amazing, huh for a Republican.

Now granted, there is no way his parents will vote for Hillary, Obama, Edwards or any Democrat. But they are not "evil" people. Yes they are rich. Yes they have lived a life where they have had comfort of being well off financially. BUT, they are not bad people.

What I am trying to say is that, when I read these knee jerk comments about the "evil" Republicans, (and I've been guilty myself) I have to take a step back and think about how much I love Michael's parents. They are deep down loving and good people and I'm so glad to know them.

Two things that I loved about this weekend. Michael's dad and I spent a lot of time out on deck watching the birds and just talking about the little things in life. The other was when his mom and I were playing cards and Michael went outside to smoke, she turned to me and said "I just love it when you boys come to visit."

see the people on both sides as having a different view of things but, not evil unless you are a bushie or Delay or someone of that ilk.

We may not always agree when it comes to the "Hillary" issue, but I know that in your heart, you're a great person and I respect you for that.

:loveya:

Sam Seder said it, I believe it.

Political affiliation does not make one evil; how one behaves toward others does. :thumbsup:

Back in the late 1980's I would have wrote the same about my own parents. I'm glad to see that others see things other than red and blue.

All republicans who support guns for citizens, destroying the environment, denying a woman's right to choice and supporting illegal wars of aggression against defenseless countries under false pretextes... You're wrong. All Republicans ARE EVIL. Think about it.

just like there are Democrats.

Some are evil, some are misguided, some are just too damn lazy to pay attention.

and has come to the conclusion that the world is not as black and white as you would probably wish.

It would be simpler if the little (D) or (R) next to someone's name told us all we need to know about that person, but alas, the world is a bit more complicated than that. I know Democrats that I wouldn't trust to walk me across the street, and I know Republicans who make the world a better place by being in it.

-There are very, very good arguments for allowing guns for citizens.
-NO ONE supports destroying the environment.
-Abortion all depends on when you believe life begins. If you believe that abortion is killing a human being, then it makes sense to oppose abortion.
-How were they to know they were false pretenses? How were they to know Iraq was defenseless?

Think about it.

I agree

I don't know - a lot of people don't support doing anything to save it and call the people who do care about life as we know it being able to continue on the planet "hippie tree-huggers". Sorry, but it seems to me that some people do in fact support destroying the environment. If they didn't want to destroy the environment, then they wouldn't be driving a Hummer and living in a McMansion and consuming conspiciously and cutting down trees and paving the land for a new big box store or stripmall or throwing their trash out on to the side of the road or into drains or whatever. I mean, I realize that you can't be totally perfect and I'm not perfect myself, but there is a lot that one individual can do or refrain from doing. I don't expect purity. Just show some effort.

It doesn't matter when you think life begins. All that matters is what the person carrying the fetus thinks. If you don't want an abortion, good for you. Don't have an abortion. But don't take the right to choose away from other women.

Duh. Get on the net. Read some books. I knew it from the day they started talking about dropping bombs on Afghanistan. If you can't afford the net at home, go to the library. Books and the net, all for free.

When someone tells me that he/she is a Republican, I get a sinking feeling in my gut. As long as they don't say anything else, I give them the benefit of a doubt - a very small benefit of a very large doubt.

If they DO say anything, it is usually a diatribe on one or more of the topics on your list, and it always seems to me that they are ill-informed or just consumed with self-interest. OR they're those nationalistic Super-Patriots. You know - the ones who "Support Our Troops" with a car magnet or ten.

As far as your list goes - and it doesn't go very far - there are more and better arguments for keeping guns (especially semi-automatic handguns) OUT OF the hands of citizens; many corporatists and fundamentalists DO support destroying the environment; abortion is a hot-button issue that is using people to get ill-earned votes; and many people knew that the pretenses were false before Bush even ran for President. They tried to tell us all so.

Not all Republicans are EVIL, but they DO have rose-tinted blinders on their tiny heads.

You think about it.

Think about it.

and by the way, plenty of people here at DU support all those things you posted about.

You know damn well where I'm coming from.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

To the RW (I grew up in a RW baptist home) hearing the left talk about killing defenseless people in another country while killing defenseless babies in the womb is just plain crazy.

Supporting taking guns from citizens while also complaining about defenseless people in the same breath is crazy sounding as well.

Both sides can and do play this game - blaming the other side for killing the defenseless. The RW would say those in Iraq have a defense and use it daily, while the unborn have none, etc and so on.

It's all in how you look at it. And to republicans your way seems as silly as theirs. That does make you evil or them evil, it just drives home the point that we can all look at the same situations differently.

Calling someone evil does not make it so, it only makes one shut down trying to understand the other side and why they think like they do. Good people can and will do evil things at times - but then the term is somewhat relative I suppose.

I know some conservative Republicans and have some of them in my family, and a lot of them are similar to the way you described. They are not bad people, mostly they just do not pay as close attention to current issues as a lot people, and sometimes they just have different personalities than I do.

Yes, we do get into some heated arguments at times, actually often!

When you know people and like them, even love them, you just can't imagine them as "bad people". I doubt very much that Cheney's daughter thinks her father is "evil". But those are emotions, not facts. I wouldn't go so far as to say Republicans are "evil", but I would (and do) call them corrupt, violent, greedy and immature, whether I happen to "like" them or not.

The democratic party is full of people who "support guns for citizens". I'll just leave it at that rather than have my post deleted.

Not all are evil, but some are :evilgrin:

I have Repubs I know that seem to be Repub because they always have been. I believe Michael Moore called them RINOs in one of his books.

Most of them would change if they took the time to really look at the issues.

I love them with all my heart. I think that maybe I've have opened their eyes by seeing how happy their son is and I've seen beyond stupid political lables.

My baby brother is gay and my staunch Republican parents accepted him and his partner unconditionally over 20 years ago. I disagree with my folks about damned near everything politically, but I love them and they sure as shit are not evil.

You so crazy!

sound oh so bossy!

I got m' whip ready!

thanks for sharing this.

They were just loyal National Socialists. :shrug:



:evilgrin:
:popcorn:

It's a punch line to a joke.

Hope you get it.

Some folks can change. For the most part I agree with you. The OP may be surprised. Someday his in-laws might vote Democrat JUST because he lived a loving example. I agree that to support the policies of the Republicans is supporting Evil but these may well be people in transition. They now support their gay son and his lover. That's more than I ever got from my Republican parents. My mom once told me that she wanted to commit suicide because I am a lesbian...<g>...speaking of guilt trips. She said my existence made her life not worth living. I personally have little to nothing to do with Republicans.
Lee

At least they think the reasons are good.


That includes all of us, I think. :shrug:

Simplistic thinking shouldn't be found in a supposedly enlightened group of people

I live across the country from them, and try to avoid discussing politics altogether.

I happened to be visiting them when the Cheney/Edwards debate took place in 2004 and thought my dad and I would come to blows, however. But we have now learned to just not discuss the subject.

Republicans aren't evil.

The BFEE is evil. People really need to learn the difference.

A lot of Republicans are scared. Really really scared. I used to lurk around Ann Coulter's forum because I was gathering stuff for my website making fun of her. Then they found me out and kicked me.

Those people are 100% completely convinced that Mexican Muslim Lesbians are going to come steal their stuff and have sex with their daughters, force them to all have abortions and then kill them all. I don't get the fear. I don't get the paranoia, to the degree I read it over there.

My point is, I think fear is the motivation for a lot of Republicans.
Lee

100% evil, from all perspectives and in all circumstances. Hitler loved and was very kind to dogs and children and to people he cared for. It doesn't mean he wasn't evil. People who support the Republican Party - especially now, at this point in time - actively support evil. These same people may be wonderful to their families and friends and to dogs and cats. It doesn't mean they aren't evil...

They miss the 'boys' next door after they moved - the best neighbors they ever had, to hear them talk about it. Plus, those guys were looking after my mom and dad! :loveya:

All Republicans evil? Don't think so. :hi:

You're HOT!

:hi:

Care to explain that?

There are lots of decent people who call themselves Republican. Some I know even voted for Kerry. :)

Unfortunately, almost all of the Republicans in office are evil. There are very few left who aren't.

Dick and Lynne bought Liz's partner the nicest Christmas gift last year. I hear unka dick may even leave the happy couple a generous portion of his estate when he dies, even a juicy chunk of Halliburton stock.

Good people.

I guess that makes me a evil mother fucker now.

:shrug:

I just believe there is active evil and passive evil. Almost all the evil in this country is passive. That doesn't make it less evil.

What the fuck ever.

Heck, we're part of it every time we fill up our cars.

I'm not aware of any prominent Republicans named Boorman. Are you referring to Hitler's secretary Martin Bormann and his wife Gerda? If so (and to put it mildly) what a utterly silly statement.

But, giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you aren't making the ridiculous argument that all Republicans are equivalent to Nazis--what's you're point? Are you insinuating that all Republicans are fungible?

period

Its taken you two posts to bring up a Nazi (poorly spelled as his name was) and invoke fascism.

You've got to pace yourself--you're using up all your persuasive arguments right out of the gate.

it took me one post to bring up the Nazi.

You're insightful, even if you can't count to two.

In the span of two posts, you invoked both Nazis and fascists. In your FIRST post you mentioned the "Boormans" and in your SECOND you equated all Republicans with fascists.

That's a total of two. See how that works?

Now, if you're done with the nonsense, perhaps you can answer my question: Are you taking the position that all Republicans are fungible?

Some fascists use missiles. Some use guns. Some use truncheons. Some use waterboards. Some use their vote to endorse, enable and validate the others. Many of them can be nice to their families and friends. It doesn't change the evil they helped to unleash on the world.

National Socialism was the party of fascism in Germany in the Thirties and Forties. Republicans are the party of fascism in The United States in the Eighties, Nineties and Aughts. Anyone who still considers themselves a republican and who still plans to vote for republicans is a fascist.

In how many posts do you intend to cite the same typo? Once is bad taste. Twice is something worse. Some Nazis use spelling, I guess.

My suggestion: get out into the world and meet some people outside your political circle. You'll find that not everyone with that little (R) on their voter registration is the epitome of evil.

Good luck.

thanks for the advice though.

I bet you're quite endearing around those with differing political views.

around those with similar views

LOL

They put on their facade to maintain your friendship, and then turn around and vote for the people who will deny you the same civil rights that are awarded to everyone else. Is that evil? I don't know, but it sure sounds like bad people to me.

And you are missing the point I was trying to make. If they were MY parents because I don't agree with them politically, I should write them off as "evil". I'm so flattered with the rapid or should I say "rabid" response. You proved my point. Thanks, hon.

If so, NO SLACK.

I hear Hitler was a moderatly talented watercolorist, and was nice to those close to him, too.

Dick Cheney is "nice" to his daugher and her partner, while SPONSORING and ENABLING legislation that would harm her AT THE SAME TIME!

Sorry, but if you support evil policies, no matter how "nice" you seem, you are evil.

Period.

No. Slack.

...when they support a party like that.

My grandfather was a Republican, and he was one of the nicest people I have ever known. He also supported Sen. McCarthy in the Communist Witch Hunts and he blamed the "liberals and Jews" in Hollywood for the decline in his acting career.

It has taken me a long, long time to reconcile the two sides of this man who I loved so dearly. In the end it comes down to this: He was a wealthy man based on his acting talent, not on his education. He barely finished grade school. Yet once he became wealthy, he seemed to believe that God's grace had made it so. What's the point of learning anything new, or modifying your opinions, if God is so obviously on your side already?

My grandfather was not evil, but he WAS an enabler of evil. I still love him to death, but I wish that he had taken some time to examine and question his own beliefs and failings. The fact that he never did is what made him a Republican.

Here is some more information about my grandfather. Ronny, with your love of showbiz, I feel confident that you would have loved him too.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0102787/

YOU get it, my friend.

:loveya:

Loved your grandfather in the Preston Sturges films. They don't get shown enough these days, although my personal favorite is "The Lady Eve."

Doesn't bother me one bit that he was a Republican. Hell, Mike Nelson once outed himself a Republican, but I'm never going to stop watching MST3K...

And that's your grandfather?? Rock on - that is so cool!! I've heard of him.

Your grandfather was the Wally World guy?

In response to the point of your post, I think we've all got relatives who we have to reconcile something with. For the most part, doesn't mean we love them any less. I didn't get to know either grandfather. I know that one was pretty racist. He and I would have some severe disagreements but I doubt I would love him any less. That's the thing with family - unless they are determined to drive you away, you're going to love them, warts and all.

If you still actively support the republican party you *are* doing evil, and there's no way to pussyfoot around that.

NT!

Contrary to what a lot of people think or how they live, life is not always politics.

Some people get so consumed with their own political beliefs, they forget to live and also forget the good and bad things in life effect us all.

We can be passionate about our beliefs and our disagreements with repugs, even with our fellow DUers, but at times we need to be reminded that we are all human, we can love one another and get along because of life's mutual experiences and pleasures that everyone should enjoy.

You made a great point, I only hope people can make sense of what I'm trying to put into words.

Supporting a loving relationship between two men and respecting Women's right to privacy ARE good things.

Hopefully, you will be able to help them see that supporting the deaths of innocent People on the other side of the Earth for _______________________ (whatever!) IS evil.

OK? :)

Thanks for your wonderful post!

My wife and I are too left for the Green Party, but my parents in a golf retirement country town have been quoted as saying, "Maybe we should have given more to Dick Armey?", and got me to waste my first voting privilege by giving Ronnie Raygun the second term.

We butt heads on how millennialist they are in their Christian belief, but admire them for their affiliation with the Salvation Army, and especially my Mom's commitment to reaching out to those in her community with a real, constant, hands-on approach, like we wish all of us could do more of.

My Mom is NOT evil.

There were so many times back in the 80's when I was just SO pissed at my mom. Sadly, it took my brother's death from AIDS to open her eyes.

We all learn in life.

Unlikely, I'm guessing.

More of that enabling, though, on their part - even if they don't mean to do wrong, they are, by supporting those who support discrimination and homophobic bigotry.

Sucks, I know.

:puke:

And this is one time I'll really call you out for this.

You know god-damn good and well that for all the time I've been on DU I've always liked you and think you're the cats ass for being so cool and funny.

BUT, in this case you don't know SHIT. You are passing judgement on people you do not know.

We will agree to disagree on this. But let me tell you, you've made a judgement on people that I love and people that are parents to the greatest person in my life.

Later.

I am afraid the judgement will NOT be kind, and it will sound an awful lot like the judgement on the Good Germans.

You have made this personal, and I am sorry that such apparently fine people as your In-Laws are Good Germans metaphorically wiping the grainy, greasy soot from their windowsills every morning, then puzzling in confusion why that same greasy, grainy soot keeps reappearing on their windowsills.

Take the fact that you know and love these people out of the equation and you'd agree with me.

Evil? No. Easily led by evil? YES...in spades.

PS I don't know your In-Laws and I don't want to know them. As a Jew, I find Good Germans nauseating, no matter how personally nice they are.

I am tired of people coddling those responsible for this f***ing MESS we find ourselves in - bush supporters have BLOOD ON THEIR HANDS

That's still allowed, I think.

Maybe they're just blissfully ignorant?

Hard truth there, but truth it remains.

Boy, could he bust a move. Of course, there was just that bit of trouble with killing people and eating them, but who are we to judge?

Of course, you had to stay away from the paté.

I admittedly have some Republican friends, and despite the fact that we are diametrically opposed on some political issues, we have found a lot of common ground in other areas.

Most importantly, the friends to whom I am referring have treated me with nothing but respect and kindness, and that means a lot to me and goes a long way.

I wouldn't shut out a friend who treated me with respect and decency for disagreeing with me on politics - people have different opinions and outlooks - that's a fact. It's whether or not they can respect my humanity first and foremost (above the politics) that decides whether or not they are someone I can be friends with.

I would not want someone to write me off as an evil human being because they disagree with me politically, in turn, I try not to do that to others.

Great story, Ronny.

:loveya:

:hug:

Disagreement makes the world go around, but you're kidding yourself if you think their kindness outweighs the damage they do by voting Republican.

I wonder, how do you think they would feel if they saw you hurt by something they voted for?

And I do agree with you about being hurt by some of the things I'm sure they must vote for.

On the flip-side, though, the same could be said for them. What I believe in, and what I vote for likely would hurt them on some level too. For example, many of them would likely have trouble with my staunch pro-choice stance. They might have a hard time understanding why I feel a woman should have a right to terminate a pregnancy if she so chooses. To me the answer seems obvious, to them, perhaps not so much.

I'll admit I have a hard time with the knowledge that some of my friends vote against my (and their) best interests. But knowing them as I do, and for the length of time that I have, I can honestly say that they have done some good, charitable, decent things in their life as well. I also believe they are in the "misinformed" category rather than the "evil" one.

But I do see your point, and yes, I do grapple on a regular basis with being torn between my feelings of affection for my friends, and the opposition I feel to some of their views. I have always been able to get along with all sorts of people, and accept pretty much all kinds, though it does require some temperance on my part, for certain.

This is one of the reasons I'm certain the last two elections was stolen.

As for repug voters, they are either evil/selfish or brainwashed lemmings.

And my mom and her hubby are repugs too. They don't hate gays or want to ban abortion either. They are just rich greedheads, so yeah, their political philosophy is evil. They bitch about their taxes even though they have a huge home, luxury cars, vacations all around the world, etc. There's never such a thing as "enough" for them.

Doesn't mean I don't love my mom or respect my stepdad, but their political worldview is based purely on selfishness and greed.

I agree with your overall statement. Are there honest Republicans? Yes, plenty, and it is my fervrent hope that they retake their party from the criminals and crazies.

However, those who fail to question the Loyal Bushie lies, especially at this late date, are unquestionably Good Germans.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Fascism/Good_German_Syndrome.html

Recently, I was forced to work with an individual who was a good and decent person in his personal life, but that is where it ended. Around his work, friends and family was a wall topped with barbed wire, as vile, gullible, and foolish a Bushevik as you would ever want to meet, made doubly frustrating by the fact that he is such a decent person, personally.

But that DOES not absolve him, nor your in-laws. At this late date, with crimes being exposed faster than I can type them, damned near, anyone and I mean ANYONE who still worships Chimpoleon is either evil or weak-minded/gullible.

Sorry if the truth smarts, but that is what that 28-34% is, that and nothing more. The very fact that we have such a high number (I would venture a guess and say more than at any time in American History) of evil & weak-minded people (two seperate traits, neither mutually exclusive nor inclusive) is circumstantial evidence that a Hitler-style propaganda machine is breeding Cult Members programmed for THE PARTY.

Which leads me to my thought: How many Germans, do you think, back in 1939, were personally nice and decent people? How many, if they had not the misfortune of being born in that place in that time, would have led good lives trying to do the right thing, and one would never noticed that they had the capacity in their hearts to enable monstrous evil.

Want to know my guess? Millions.

BUT THAT DIDN'T ABSOLVE THEM FROM THEIR GUILT IN ENABLING A MONSTER TO MURDER MILLIONS!

No more than your "In-Laws" personal niceness and decency absolves them from enabling monsters to murder a million (with more coming) and turn America into a New Totalitarian State (well, that hasn't happened yet, but the danger and possibility are still present).

I don't give a good god damned if they are Mother and Father Theresa, because they support monsters, criminals, and murderers who are literally destroying America to possess the ashes.

THEY ARE NOT ABSOLVED! ESPECIALLY if at this late date, they still weak-mindedly support the monsters and criminals in question.

Do they still, Ronny? I think from what you didn't say in your OP, that they still do. That's a pity, but that doesn't change the reality.

OK, they aren't evil...just weak-minded. But DO NOT ask me to have an ounce of sympathy for Good Germans or their modern spiritual descendants, your In-Laws and the millions of lemmings like them.

I am Jewish, and as such have VERY strong feelings about people like your In-Laws.

Politically, I can't disagree with you.

From my heart, I can't say my in-laws are bad people.

I wish that there was someway I could change them. I can't.

But I think politically you and are on the same team.

I knew when I wrote this I would open up a can of worms, but I just can't say with a pure heart that I can't say call people "evil" when I've seen the changes in Michael's parents from before I met them to last weekend. I just can't. I love them. I don't agree with them politically, but I do love them.

I don't know what else to say.

And, as I said above, I agree with your general OP. Unquestionably all Republicans are NOT EVIL.

However, I would be hard-pressed to find a single Bushevik in a leadership position who isn't some degree of evil, many of them very high degrees of evil.

And nobody is telling you not to love your In-Laws. Well, at least I'm not.

It's got to be hard, and they do sound like very nice people. Posters on this thread are sharing our feelings, not trying to make you change yours.

And DUers, if you haven't noticed lo these many years now, are righteously pissed off and for the first time I can remember things are so black and white now it's disturbing in itself. Especially for those of us (which is most all DUers, I imagine) who are children of the Age of Enlightenment and thus prefer to see shades of grey.

Try not to take it personally.

I've got a thick skin for that.

I think that there are a lot of people around here that DO make it personal and can't see past that.

And she loves him.

SO *UCKING WHAT.

See! They're not ALL bad!
They like gays!

Good come back.

Well, let's see the difference.

1. My father in law is not Vice-President.

2. My husband isn't going around the nation defending his father's politcal views like Mary Cheney does?

Wanna go again?

What does it matter if your father in law is VP or not?
They both love their gay children.

Hence, they are not "evil".

I guess.

:eyes:

And please let us know about your perfect liberal family that you come from. If you do, good for you. I'd LOVE for his family to be liberals and democrats, but they are NOT. It doesn't make them evil as your knee jerk opinion makes them. I don't know his father's 100% opinion of the war is. I don't get into that with him. He's a nice man. What I said is I don't JUDGE him just by his political views. All the neysayers in this thread have basically said from what I've read is that I'm defending "my repubilican" .... as some asshole keeps puking out over and over .... and basically that I'm a ass kissing pig. Not that anyone has said that.

My point is that there are politcal differences in this world.

I'll be honest with y'all. When Micheal and I first met, he painted a picture of his parents of two people that would basically shoot me on sight because I'm gay and a liberal. THAT was far from the fact. If we as Democrats and Liberals can not see that people of other political views are nothing but "evil" then we are FUCKED. I thank God that MY parents are not that fucking narrow minded. My parents are Democrats, but they are no so fucking ignorant to lable other people as with such shitty terms are the so called liberals and as some people around here do.

Oh, I guess that makes my parent not the "right kind" of Democrats.

You may have hoped it would be taken as a warm fuzzy
human interest piece. The murders of over 650,00 Iraqis
have raised the political stakes in this country.

There is not a republican friend of mine that I don't
"engage" with at this point. Anything less is tacit
approval. I agree with the poster Thomas Paine, and
I'm not even Jewish.

Here is a book I would recommend to you:

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/0679772685.01._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_SCLZZZZZZZ_AA240_SH20_.jpg
http://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-Willing-Executioners-Ordinary-Holocaust/dp/0679772685

An interesting look at the "banality of evil".

you and michael might want to point out to his parents that THIS will never happen as long as they keep voting for their bullshit "christian" wedge-issued repukes. michael will never legally be your HUSBAND because his parents don't want him to be your husband, his parents don't want their son to be legally married to you, his parents don't want you to have the rights and benefits of a legally wedded spouse although you might deserve them.

call him your husband all you want, but the sad reality is legally he is not. and if he ended up on his death bed these wonderful people could legally have you ejected from the hospital room because you are not related by blood or by law. (unless you expend the time and money to have a living will drawn up--and even then there is no absolute guarantee if you get some asshole at the hospital who decides to do what they want in spite of your efforts because, legally, he is not your husband)

Ronny gets in on it!

It's all unicorns and kittens and "mitigating circumstances"
from now on.

Just like with Mary Cheney!

:)

voting for Bush was an act of evil that enabled the dismantling of eveything this country stood for. How many gay-friendly, pro-choice cocktail parties does a person need to throw to make up for that?

Tons of cocktails parties! And I plan on going to ALL of them.

Why don't you ask your lovely rich in-laws if they'd want their taxes raised if it would cure AIDS?

So they would vote for ? to continue this madness?

Doesn't make them evil but it does say a lot for what they really stand for.

:shrug: But hey, so long as they are approving of their son's and his partner's lifestyle, and throw wonderful cocktail parties, it's all good. :eyes:

Just because they embrace the wrong party doesn't mean they are necessarily evil. Many of them do not even realize they do not agree with the basic ideals of their party.

I used to be a Republican because of ignorance for 6 years. I was just misguided and confused, not evil.

Republicans favor corporations over people. Republican ideology believes government should NOT help the people, that people should fend for themselves...They despise the "New Deal" not one ever voter for it and have been trying to destroy every aspect of it since it's existence. Privatize everything for the REPUBLICANS cheating profiteering everything is the republican mantra, so is DEREGULATE, with no oversight, allowing corporations to police themselves...which privatization allows the greedy corporates to cut corners, cheat, force out smaller competition, receive government welfare (they call subsidies)...Republicans corporations pollute and then want government (our taxes) to clean up the mess. Republicans are imperialist and think only of profit and how to increase their portfolios. If it means stealing oil and their stocks rise so much the easier.

This a republican, this is their ideology, agenda and philosophy...This what being a republican means.

Republican destroy unions they call evil. Democrats certainly aren't the ones destroying unions....Corporations hate unions, they want no negotiating power for the workers, for health care, job safety, and wages...Republicans favor corporation deciding workers fate, but they do steal workers pensions, they hate Social Security call it socialism, despise the minimum wage, unemployment insurance, health insurance for all, No they say fuck that we should be on our own, can't afford it too fucking bad government should be there for you only for the corporations....

Republican ideology is where we are today, this is their goal, government is not there for the people...but our taxes (the rich & corporations don't pay their fair share) are for a military to go destroy other governments and steal their resources, like oil so these republican devil can then gouge us at the pump...

Republicans are racist, homophobes, sexist, pushing their ideology and praise the lord onto others as a political movement...What possible reason would someone be a republican....for the bullshit line they are too stupid to see fiscal conservative? Republican and their ideology promotes deficits as Reagan the Bush's etc.... but people have bought the republican lies from their republican owned corporate media...that republicans care about budget & fiscal restraints...BULLSHIT!

I suppose I'm in the same corner as Malloy when he rightfully calls republicans evil, filthy, sick greedy bastards!

"Republicans are racist, homophobes"

Uh .... where you there when his mom threw me out of the house?


Oh yeah .... that didn't happen.

You don't have a leg to stand on!

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Stupid, crazy, or evil?

past and have no intention of changing this suport of EVIL, then they are fucking motherfucking EVIL.

Period.

You can't be a "little bit" pregnant.

You either suppor these murderers and are tainted with the blood of innocents, or you're not.

It's really simple.

Too bad for those of you who refuse to understand.

I have nothing but scorn for these scum AND THEIR SUPPORTERS!

I don't care if you like it or not...

That kind of binary thinking is exactly what I find objectionable about the Bush administration, and its no less ridiculous when it comes from the progressive side of the aisle.

Just like no democrats are good.

So says this nihilist.

That good and evil are the same? And yet, in a million years, neither your opinion nor mine will amount to much. We are the same. We eat, we breed, we die. Once you accept this fate, you begin to see people as nothing more than human. Mortal humans whose flash of brief existence is swallowed up in the nothingness of space and time.

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I have friends and family members that are republicans. I don't base my personal relationships with people on politics.

you're double ok in my book!

That's my baby, Monty. :)

Cats rule!

And we are living republicans ultimate goals and evolution that their ideology dictates.

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I have known many really good people who have been Republicans in my time, but all of them were either brainwashed or just plain uniformed. I think that anyone who actually knows the Republican Party's stances on the issues and still supports them is evil, the problem is very few people actually know the Republican Party's stances on the issues.

Michael's parents don't have a clue as to who they would vote for in the primary.

Of course, I am a nice person. And handsome to boot. How can you not like me? :toast:

Oh, gosh. I better say something off topic or GreenTea will get a stick up it's ass.

Also, should I have made that question? :scared:

He claims he's libertarian, but most republicans do since 2000/2004. He's a republican. His wife is even more hard-core. She's a Fox addict, and love Laura Ingraham. But we get along great. We travel together, and we bust each other's stones for our respective political views. But they're not "bad" people. We simply don't share political ideologies. It's actually kinda cool to be able to call someone a "Bush-loving fascist" and not have them freak out...he just calls me a similarly nasty pejorative in response. Then we go skiing and have a good time.

I don't buy into the blanket polarization based upon political views. It's counter-productive. Plus, what the hell fun is it to have friends who agree with you on everything? That just sounds like the Bush household to me.

.

Or would that be the actions that come about due to that illness?

What a silly post you got there.

A man posted that based on his experience, his partner's parents are not evil. Again, he maintains that the people who raised the love of his life, and who always treated him decently are not evil. Apparently that's too much to bear for a few one-size-fits-all, you're either with or against us (sound familiar) DUers. I saw it coming Mr. Marshall, but I'm still sorry you had to experience it.

:loveya:

Egocentrism being one of them. Zealotry carries it's own punishments, but one thing I have learned these past 20 years is that if one side is zealous and the other is not, it appears as if the non-zealous side doesn't have the courage of it's convictions.

But people are pissed AND zealous about stopping the Bush Crminal Enterprise...this does not make for polite, respectful conversation. That's just the way it is.

But I digress. My point is...well, my point is described in my posts above.

My point and your point are not mutually exclusive of each other and I say Bravo! to 11 Bravo for telling it like it is.

The only reason I still post here is because I have met some great friends on DU and I post to keep in touch with them. It's been a good thing in my life, but as they say, all good things must come to an end. If it weren't for the personal friends I've made here, I'd have checked out a long time ago - this place is so full of vitriolic, hateful self-righteousness anymore, and has successfully disabused me of the notion that left-wingers are necessarily better people than anyone else. Hell will freeze before I vote Repug, but I've become very politically disillusioned from the hypocrisy and shrill sanctimony of this place.

This place is hardly recognizable anymore.

Well, actually....one thing is very recognizable.

Your compassion! :pals:

:hug:

You're one of the good guys... one of the people who makes putting up with the hundreds of vicious keyboard warriors worth it.

Keep on keeping on, friend!

I've argued this point before, but your story tops anything I've said!! K&R

That makes you even MORE fantastic!

:loveya:

and 20th? I think the 20th...Chris Issak is opening. Yowzaa!!!

I just found out today. Not sure I can afford it but I love seeing shows there.

Hey- this tread is nasty. Stick to your guns. You are right. :hug:

and always have been. The 3% applies to them as to anything, only thing is where 3% ruins any other segment of the population - there's only 3% of Republicans who are any good. And I think most people refer to the leadership at the top of the Party when they make statements about sucky Republicans. Anybody knows that the Republican down the street isn't necessarily an evil person. If they're STILL Bush Republicans though, well I'd have to seriously wonder about their sanity, if not their moral core.

My parents are loving and giving. They maybe GOP but they cannot stand Bush.

They love their family and friends and their community. They also do alot of volunteering for our local food pantry. My Father is an attorney who gives free legal work to poor clients who cannot afford legal representation. My Mother is part of a group that stitched together HUGE chunks of the AIDS quilt and now is working on quilts for kids who's parents have been killed in Iraq.

Yeah... all re-pubs are ALL evil... give me a fucking break :eyes:. I doubt many DU'ers have done for their fellow man like my family and many other PEOPLE have.

Thanks for the post Ronny!

People that work on the quilt are angels. My brother died of AIDS in 1989. My mom, My Aunt and Grandmother helped make his panel. It's so beautiful. I got into a fight one time with this asshole one time that said "that fucking quilt should be set on fire" .... this was from someone that was in ACT-UP. I'm not and never will be a violent person, but it took all of my strength not the not him in the face. We broke up after that.

I don't hate my Repuke family. They have started to listen.

Better late than, never!

okay, they're all evil except for michael's parents

or

they're not evil, they're just selfish

or

they're not evil--they just have no social conscience whatsoever

(your story reminds me of my friend's situation--it only took his wealthy parents about TWENTY years to come to terms with my friend being gay. at long last they have become more sensitive to gay issues but i suspect it is simply due to the fact that the gay issue directly impacted their family. when "these people" are directly affected by something then it is different, otherwise "they" ((the republics i am familiar with)) could give a rat's ass about anyone else's plight. how much compassion did they show for katrina victims? or for victims of the "gay plague" back in the day when their boy ronnie couldn't be bothered mentioning aids because the accepted way of thinking among "them" was that it was deserved, or god's way of punishing!)

or

they're not evil--they're just stupid (and that's why they continue to support the monsters they support/vote for/give money to)

bitter about republics? you bet i am. i think they're everything i listed above--and more. i'm glad you're able to get along with your in-laws. and just because they have good points, don't let all those hours of bird watching and drinking cocktails go to your head.

(what did they think about gays before their son came out?)

What should I have done?

Tell them to go to hell? Spit in their faces?

Please tell me what I should do?

How about my cousins?

My one cousin that lost her husband to cancer last year? She's a republican? Should I just turn my back on her and say "Oh fuck you! You're a republican. I don't give a shit that your husband died!"

Or when my brother died of AIDS? At that time, my mom was a republican. Should I have kicked her and said "Fuck you, CUNT! You voted for Reagan and you killed my brother!" Oh wait ... my brother that died ... he voted for Reagan. When he was sick should I have just walked away for him? Regardless that he became a democrat in 1987 two years before he died .... shouldn't his republican past make him one of "them"?

Thanks for sharing! :)
And I totally agree. I know plenty of nice Republicans and mean Democrats.

sure they are out there. Both my parents, and their parents, were all republicans.

Today's republican party has been taken over by three major factions: the super rich (they were always there, but concentrated power and took over), the fundy religious right, and the racist/skinhead/redneck crowd. The latter two groups are pawns. The old guard are still there too, as you saw.

Because the party recognized during FDR's reign that it was doomed in a fair fight at the polls, there being lots more "common people" than "upper class" it decided to go grab the rednecks with a thinly-veiled racist "southern strategy" and later it also adopted the anti-abortion crowd as a "bloc" it could grab and count on votes from. The good people who grew up republican did not turn into monsters just because their party leadership decided to use monsters to generate votes.

I feel sorry for the remaining civilized people who are still loyal republicans. It has to be embarrassing to have people like Lott, Allen Cunningham as your party stalwarts.

It's a good idea, really.

I have a right wing uncle who had a gay stepson, and he is a RWer to the core except on the question of gays.

But he is evil toward everyone else. It's when he personally knows someone that he's OK.

Are they against gay marriage and equal rights for gays? Because they may be nice to you in person, but that doesn't mean that deep down, they don't think everything can be resolved per their requirements (he marries a woman).

No one says they are evil, but misguided. And they might not be extending that same consideration to you. You have to eavesdrop, I guess.

with it - I have several family members (thankfully none in my immediate family) and friends that are Republicans, and my feelings of care for them are in no way diminished because of that.

However, I have to say that I draw the line regarding choice of an SO; I've never been in a relationship with a Republican, and can't see myself ever doing so. We're talking about someone with whom you share your most intimate feelings, and in my eyes, there has to be some kind of agreement on the most primal level regarding your general outlook on life. Maybe that makes me an intolerant jerk in the eyes of some, but that's just how it goes for me...

My mom would KILL me !!!!

but she knows me better than that, so no worries on her part!

Is he a democrat?

the ELECTED Republicans who are most CERTAINLY more "evil" than everyday folk who are turning away from their party in increasing numbers at the moment -- and freepers, of course. I think most of us realize that rank and file Republicans don't all necessarily fit the mold.

I do want to say, however, that just because someone is nice to you -- even loves you -- doesn't in my book exonerate them from some responsibility and even accountability for other things for which they aren't so loveable. Perhaps that's what TahitiNut was referring to, tho I don't know. So I'm a little uncomfortable with your reasoning: they love us, so they can't be evil. Yeah, they could. THESE aren't, but it's still possible for others like them to be. After all, Mafia parents love their children too.

Sometimes I despair of the hatred in this place. This is nice to see for a change. I know some nice Republicans, too.

staunch Republican, however, we have the exact same views! I don't have the heart to tell him he is really a Democrat!

Ah yes, the team player - I know some of those too. He probably thinks he's chosen the more macho side. You'll have to tell him what tiny, weak, sweaty little hands the Republicans all have to get him to change "sides". Or just show him a list of the Republicans that have served in the military versus the Democrats that have served. There is hope for you.

The ONLY "out" your GOP friends have for voting republican and not being "bad people" is that they are incredibly naive about what's going on. Yes, some Republicans are exactly that. However, when confronted with such naive friends/relatives, the onus is on you, the more educated person, to help them understand. It is NOT acceptable to pretend that it is none of your business to talk about such things - that is exactly what the authoritarians want. So if, after your intense discussions, they still insist on listening to Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly, or mainstream media in preference to you, then you will have to admit that these people are not good.

:eyes:

You don't get it. You just don't get it.

Dumak's post was a completely rational response. If you really want to blow up at someone, I'll be happy to post another Jeffrey Dahmer comment.

I love how my point is being proved over and over and over. Pat yourself on the back, sweetie.

Of course you like Republicans, you have seem to have the same selective perception they do.

And, please, save the swish for someone who cares. I'm not your sweetie. Your sweetie is the one who apparently lets his parents treat you like some kind of pet.

Two thumbs up for your post! Spot on!

Sorry, there is no "middle ground".

YOU don't get it, at all...

that is sad...

28 years later, it's still funny :rofl:

brothers, sisters, and long-time friends. Just because someone doesn't drive a butcher knife through your temple, doesn't mean they are not evil. If you are paying attention to what is happening to rip the soul of democracy from the people of this country, then you cannot believe these people aren't evil. They may not realize it themselves, but they are.

While I don't think any of the republican family memeber of mine would ever "drive a butcher knife through (my) temple" either, I sure as hell don't think they're evil.

Carry a concealed icepick with you to any family gatherings. My family knows by the black, cold stare that I mean business.

As a son of Vietnamese parents who had to endure America's previous mistakes, this issue really gets under my skin quickly. I don't know if your folks are the very same 30 percent of America that still supports Bush, Jr., and I can only suspect that they are still supporters of our would-be emperor given you left out their status regarding Bush. Are they, Ronny? Are they still supporters of Bush?

I'm not going to plaster every "Good German" as evil because one of the fucking problems with this administration is shading everything in terms of good vs. evil, and that kind of black and white dichotomy applied to foreign policy, a world of grays, is both foolhardy and costly in terms of resources and human life, and I doubt applying it to something closer to home is going to yield better results.

But what I am not going to do is absolve people who still support the Fuehrer of any responsibly in enabling the deaths of thousands of Americans and, by one account, 600,000+ Iraqis just because they are kind to those close to them. The people who still support Bush at this point are supporting him well beyond reason. I don't know how many people will die before the war machine is finally shut down, but the problem here is blind loyalty or blind ideology at this point.

But they are my partners parents. And yes, it sucks but they still support Bush. So do other members of MY blood family.

I will NEVER right off memebers of my family or extended family as "evil", which so many people around here seem throw that term around.

redeeming qualities.
It is good that they have accepted you into their family. Its unfortunate it took them so long to realize there is nothing wrong with homosexuality.
That doesn't change the fact that they are supporting a regime of criminals. They share in the guilt. As far as "evil" goes, I don't see many people throwing that term around.

What I'm telling you to do is to try to inform them how misguided they are, and if they refuse to listen, that's a problem they are going to have to learn to deal with on their own, and they're going to have to accept responsibility for enabling Bush so late in the game after so much damage has been inflicted on this country as well as other countries Bush and his friends have torched.

If it got to that point, then for you, the only thing you have left is to get as many reasoned people to cast votes to cancel out their votes to bottle up the stupidity of the 30 percent of America that would willingly sell out America to a dark future nobody would want their children growing up in.

If you love your partner's parents so much and love some of your folks so much, that's the least you could do for them.

That's it in a nutshell.

We're not talking about liking milk chocolate or dark chocolate or chocolate at all -

we are talking about life threatening serious issues...

The cocktail parties ended a long time ago...

I love them and of course I don't think they're 'evil'. They get their information from lame and skewed sources but they aren't stupid. I've come to understand the underlying principles they hold and while I don't see things the same way, I accept their right to see the world in a way that's meaningful to them. On the other hand they are as disgusted with the bush administration as I am. Perhaps even more so because he's destroying their party.

Your story made me tear up. Your partner's parents sound like really decent folks. And hearing that you can hang with people in their retirement community and you and your relationship accepted just melts my heart and gives me hope that our society changes for the better.

You nailed it and described my family to a 'T'.

Hell, my Repub brother wants Georgie impeached.
I couldn't believe it- I thought he was kidding- NOT!

I am surrounded by Repubs down here.
As one lady told me the other day,
" we're not breaking from the party,
GW is breaking from us!".

That's another way to look at it.

But I know the die-hard " either-or"
( sound familiar?) Repubs-of-any-kind haters are going to flame this one, too.

people see the world differently.

Anyone who has the same view of things as you or any other DUer and is still a Republican -- well, maybe that person is evil. But there is no one correct way to view the world.

And per Eric Hoffer, there is nothing so evil as a true believer of any stripe.

Thats great.. and i'm happy for you..
That doesn't make republicans great people.

I mean think about it. Should you really be so excited to find out that these people don't give a damn that your gay? Shouldn't it be expected?

The entire world is just fucked up, though, it isn't just republicans. Plenty of people are just sheep. Most politicians are just greedy bastards.

Evil means these people want nothing but bad. Nope, they're just very selfish, arrogant and ignorant. I've known and worked with many Repugnicans over the years and I never met one who wanted to physically harm me (at least overtly)...they were just too into themselves and "whats in it for me".

Yes, there are some Republicans who don't agree with what happened to their party, but those are still a minority...polls still show about 30% of the population approves of this regime, and of that 30%, 50% will pay to watch boooshie eat a baby on live TV. This despite all the proof of lying, deceit, treason and incredible corruption. If they still support this regime and the party it represents, they are Morally Bankrupt.

If they voted for boooshie in '04, knowing the war was based on lies and it didn't matter...they're Morally Bankrupt

If they support the tax cuts that have destroyed the middle class, made a mess of our school and other infrastructure and has created massive defecits that will economically hamper this country for a decade or longer...they're Morally Bankrupt

If they support the attempts by this regime to politicize the judiciary, obliterate the separation of church and state and approve of the illegal wiretapping of American...they're Morally Bankrupt

and if the keep believing in the cry wolf antics of "Islamofascists" and other extreme rhetoric without looking at the extremes in their own coven...they're Morally Bankrupt.

They are a dying breed. In this case, quite literally.

If you had not become the partner of their son, I'm sure that they would have felt quite different about you.
The situation being what it is you managed to force them into a situation where they had to accept and love you.

But, do not be illusioned.

Republicans these days are not what your partners parents are.
Younger ones are, for the greatest part, Neocons

Neocons are a whole different ballgame.

I'm sure you and your partner will live quite well on his inheritance.

Try to remember to give some token offering to those of us in less fortunate situations.
It will make you feel better.

but I heard this regularly from guest speakers and close friends, when I was active in the SAR. politics gets pretty insulting after a while. we are all vain, selfish, and foolish. but any politician in either party who would admit this wouldn't last long!

Carter announced there was a "crises of confidence" and suggested that would be a danger to democracy. Then his opponents used that against him, and labeled it as the "malaise speech".

politicians in both parties can be pretty mean, but if one politician just turns the other cheek..he'll have them both slapped! a politician who wins will never let his opponent walk away untouched.

I hate it when people buy into Bush's divisive cultist with-us-or-against-us bullshit, and I'm happy to see many don't do that with their families and friends. At the same time I'm not surprised many do, sadly.

Cheers!

are all Republicans.

It bothers me knowing how they vote, but they all are very nice to me.

I like to think that, if they didn't known any gay people in person before me, I've helped change their minds about possible previous perceptions.

That's all I can do.

Fortunately, my immediate family is overwhelmingly liberal, so I'm very, very lucky in that regard.

He's shown himself quite willing to work with people like Rick Warren who hold political views very different from most on here. I didn't read a word in his book about Republicans being evil.

One of the worst things about the Bush administration is a tendency to reduce the world to sound bytes - us/them, red/blue, with us/against us, good/evil, heroes/evildoers. By reducing his opposition to a simplistic, evil caricature, he only serves to dehumanize those he opposes and tear the country apart in his own self-interest.

Perhaps some of you have looked into the abyss a bit long? I'm not saying that's the case, because I really don't know anyone here well enough to say so, but maybe it's something to consider.

is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
Thomas Jefferson

is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
Thomas Jefferson

And they're rich, too! It's just like Nick and Nora!!!

is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
Thomas Jefferson

Their voters are just poor fools that swallow the lies.

My partner's parents are repubs and not evil so ipso facto no repubs are evil. Is that the point you're trying to take us to?


Granted I know a few repubs who appear very nice but thier opinions of people on the lower end of the food chain are very harsh in general, so I don't abide by that or them after a point.

are republicans

You're absolutely right...ALL Republicans are not "evil". That's the broadest of brushes.

You know, being here at DU, one could easily get that impression...every single Republican in the United States of America are "evil". Every. Single. One. But we're talking about Bush and his administration and the media and people in Congress who support this President. As your wonderful story points out, Michael's parents seem to be ok people...they are fully supportive of your relationship. And it's obvious that you are a part of Michael's family. Which is acceptance...and love. No...Michael's parents are not "evil" or bad at all.

I'm glad to have kicked and recommended your post. :thumbsup:

I've stayed away from this thread, but I got a very sweet PM from someone and wanted to check out the post.

I stand by what I said, even in the heat of anger when many of my postings were deleted.

To quote the Dixie Chicks: I'm not ready to make nice, I'm not ready to back down, I'm still mad as hell and don't have time to go 'round and 'round and 'round.

... misguided, yes but not for the most part evil. With an honest media most people who align with the Republican party wouldn't vote for them. It's the GOP itself who's honesty and integrity that are in question over any of its voters.

But at this point, there's no doubt whatsoever in my mind that ANYONE who chooses to associate with the Republican party after all that's happened over the past 12 years is either one or a combination of the following:

IGNORANT;

AVARICIOUS;

INTOLERANT; or

MALEVOLENT toward civil society and the social contract (and basic principles) on which this country was founded.

Personally, I neither want nor need people like that in my life. The way I see it, it's become a character issue... and then some.

Other people may beg to differ- and I understand (unfortunately) about having to deal with certain family members (most of my family lives in North Carolina, too).

Be that as it may, I'd be wary about turning my back on people who have far right attitudes, beliefs and values. Chances are, if something comes up, they'll stab you in the back- as that tends to be their nature.

This is so weird, so many people talking past each other, seeing only
one narrow point of view. And yet, go to any heavily discussed thread
here at DU and see a myriad of diverse opinions, some so much so, that
an outsider might shout "gimme a break!" when told we're all in the same
party.

Now, we don't perceive the Republicans as being quite as diverse, mainly
because they hold the White House, the Supreme Court and most of the media.
I sure don't. But to say there is no dissent in the ranks over there is
to ignore reality. Last night, at The Freedom Toast show in Washington,
a friend of mine named Richard Viguerie showed up. Google him if the name
doesn't ring a bell. We don't agree on much of anything, politically, except,
ironically enough, that the Bush/Cheney regime has been a disaster. We
had dinner together before the show. Hang around DC long enough, and you'll
come to the very perplexing fact that some people you disagree with most
can become good friends, and some you agree with most are people you wouldn't
want to say hello to on the street. Richard's views on some things have
evolved over time. He's a Republican and a conservative, but he doesn't
consider the Bushies at this point to be much of either. Don't get me wrong.
Politically he's still the Prince of Darkness, but he is a good listener,
and won't call me evil just because we both think each other's views are
all wet. He has supported some people in the past who have done evil things.
Surprise, surprise: he'll be the first to admit it, and how wrong he was.

The more I read the blogs, the more I'm convinced André Gide nailed it:
Believe those who seek the truth. Doubt those who find it.

As for "Good Germans," now there is a phrase that hits close to home. I'm
married to one very good German. She is a social worker, usually votes
Green or SPD (Social Democrats, to the left of us). Her dad was drafted off
his farm at age 17, sent to the Russian front, got his leg blown off by a
Soviet artillery shell, and was returned to his farm half-dead and crippled
at age 18. His family had never liked the Nazis before the war, and after
what happened to him, even 50 years later, you could see him tense and get
upset any time a documentary about World War 2 showed Hitler's picture on TV.
My two daughters went to an elementary school in the Rheinland, near
Düsseldorf. The school building was the former area Gestapo HQ during the
war. The school was named "Die Anne Frank Schule." There were, and are,
plenty of good Germans. Hitler became Reichskanzler with little over 30% of
the vote, and consolidated his hold on power by seizing the media. If there
was any major dissent, the Nazis made sure no one heard about it. Sound
familiar, anyone? One of the other schools in town was the "Geschwister
Scholl Schule."

Working mostly overseas, you can just imagine the reactions I get when I tell
people that not only am I American, but from Texas--until I tell them what I
think of Bush and his whole crime cartel. Then I become a "good American."

I submit that there are more "good Americans" than we think who are
registered Republicans. They don't see, whether by chance, by upbringing, or
by design, what we see as the fallacy of their views. Many of them at this
point think that the Bushies and their own values have little in common any
more. Reaching out to those people will win us elections. Slapping them in
the face will not. Don't forget that the election of 1980 was tipped by
the "Reagan Democrats." We need the election of 2008 to be tipped to us by
the Edwards/Obama/Clinton/Gore (or whoever) Republicans, because there are
still too many of us who are just too good to vote for a Democrat who wasn't
their first choice. Some of them will even be nice people. I hope some of us
will be able to stand the shock when they find that out.

what it will take for the decent ones (and I happen to know a few myself) to realize there are undemocratic, militaristic, autocrats running their party and ruining our country. When are they going to speak out against their leadership?