As I see it, the divide between Dems. is NOT bluedog vs. Lefties....

...the REAL split is between those who believe the Democratic party has a driving ideology and who I refer to as the progressive/liberal side, and those who see "party affiliation" like sports fans see their favorite team who will get their undying support regardless. That side I call "Members of Team Democrat."

For the former, they are quick to slam their own side when they see signs of compromise.

Power is the tool of getting things done they care about. Power itself is meaningless if you don't achieve something.

Gaining power is the beginning of a long hard job to get done what you feel needs to be done to help the greatest people.

Should this side see a long-sought victory end up being a more polite, better dressed, kinder version of the same thing, they are quick to turn away in disgust rivaling the disgust of those who lost power to them.

Naturally this confuses "Members of Team Democrat."

For them, the job is done when you obtain power.

The control of Government is a goal in and of itself.

Using that control to make big changes is an anathema, because doing so risks losing power.

An election victory is like winning the super bowl or world series Etc.

There side won. Nothing can top it.

From that point the ever moving goal is to "keep the victory alive" by electing enduring majorities.

Questions about planning for what to do with your victory is a non-sequitur.

The only thing you do with victory is "enjoy it."

THUS we have their continuing obsession with "staying in power" "keeping the 60 votes" without nary a peep about working for the change the other side of the coin had as its motivation to work so hard for victory.

Winning is the overriding concern, and if that means keeping the status quo then that is what they 'll do.

Naturally the friction quickly grows once the reasons the two sides joined bears the fruit they desired.

For those who "value victory" over all else, understanding, even attempting to understand the progressive mentality is pointless, because no matter what you believe you can't change a thing if you don't have power.

The problem for the progressives is since being in power is the "goal" of the "team minded Democrats" getting them to do anything they promised they would if progressives they'd do should they win.

It's not that either side dismisses the other from contempt or some other form of disrespect.

Rather it's due to the "personality types" behind each way of viewing politics, political parties and what you do with winning are often so different it is impossible for each side to understand each other.

That's where the leadership should come in.

A great leadership knows how to be the in-between and bridge the inseperable gulf between the two sides based on what they have in common which is their overall sense of right and wrong on the issues that matter.

Unfortunately such a leader must be the rare sort that is part of both, and fully neither.

Obama so far is proving to be on the "Member of Team Democrat" side and has repeatedly demonstrated their defining trait when reacting to any doubts or concerns voiced by "progressive/liberal" Democrats. We all know what it is and is best described as the "annoyance sometimes along with condensation" one sees a parent dealing with real life expresses toward a child who interrupts his important work to ask absurdly naive idealistic questions and otherwise demand to be indulged when there is work to be done.

Thus you have the situation today.

Ideally if there were a way to blend President Obama and Howard Dean we'd get the Dream leader that would be able to bridge the gulf, keep Democrats of all stripes united, deliver the change sought while delivering the victories the other side values more than anything else.

If Team Obama does NOT find a way to move more towards an even split the prospects of the 2010 election then the dour prospects now being voiced for the 2010 election could turn out very true.

Now the question is whether they will grasp that ensuring President, their man 100%, make the extra effort to "achieve the progressive/liberal goals" at least half-way so they will turn out and vote next election.

ONe thing is certain, should they decide they don't have to, and President Obama only play to one side of the Democratic party, any threats like "you're going to hand the election to the Republicans, tea baggers Etc" will be greeted with outright contempt reserved for con artists.

If the habit of dismissing progressive/liberal concerns becomes permanent then in the eyes of quite a few progressive/liberal types this administration will turn out to be the exact same thing they thought they voted out of office.

And so the notion they'd be allowing republicans to win by not supporting this administration becomes ludicrous and ridiculous.

They have to see a difference in results between having a Democratic president and a Republican one. So far for progressive/liberal types President Obama's centrist pragmatism seems far closer to mainstream Republicanism and renders the above fear tactic sound patronizing as well as loaded with contempt for their intelligence for them since the "change you can believe in" has turned out so far to mean "more of the same sucker.

The "victory at any cost" types those that see Democrats as a team, not an ideologically based organization have everything they want from President Obama.

In my book it is those who meet the description of "Members of Team Democrat" who need to give some.

The progressive/liberals have given all they can.

Without getting something in return, they won't give again, and that means the "Democratic Team minded types - in the mold of Rahm" will lose what they most cherish - the victories and power.

Ultimately this is far MORE of a loss to members of "Members of Team Democrat."

If no real effort is made to meet the progressive/liberal agenda half-way, any such incredible election loss will NOT make them feel like they lost something they had possession of since President Obama would have done as good a job as President Bush shutting them out of power.

"Members of Team Democrat" have far more responsibility to do something to satisfy the progressive/liberal Democrat than vice versa,because they have received everything they wanted from President Obama while the progressive/liberals are as hungry as they were under Bush.

Merely "keeping power" has NEVER been a big motivator for ideologues, and certainly nothing like it is for "Members of Team Democrat."

One thing is certain, As long as "members of team democrat" think they can browbeat progressive/liberal types into doing what they're told with laughable scare tactics consisting mostly of cries that "staying home will mean handing victory to tea baggers" it's just going to get worse and worse.

The "Members of Team Democrat" need to get one thing straight, up to this point for many progressive/liberal types there has been NO REAL difference or real attempts at change since Democrats won. Such threats say one thing "you don't get it!"

If nothing changes between now and Nov. 2010 and Team Obama suffers big losses, it will mean little to them, for they will NOT have lost anything they valued, and nothing you can say to them will make any difference and be too too late.

I don't think "Members of Team Democrat" want that.

If that's true, then they need to step up to the plate and do their part as Democrats to ensure Progressives/Liberal Democrats get heard and some of what they want from this Administration to keep getting the electoral victories that drive them.

with all the give and take social dynamics within a team demands, terrifies Republicans.

Much appreciated jonathan_seer.
well said.

I'm guessing that someone has mixed up progressive/liberal with "...and those who see "party affiliation" like sports fans see their favorite team..."

The sports team analogy is the republicans world view, not the liberal/progressives.

You don't have to scream. It just alienates people and doesn't convince them of anything. Oh, just like in politics.

Dress it up in a million words if you want, but using degrading terms for your fellow Democrats will only win you point with the cranks you're trying to appeal to. Garbage post.

I was already impatient at that point because it seemed to already be repetitive, but far from the end.

Also, you should use actual paragraphs. The format you used of individual sentences separated with blank space is better than one huge paragraph without any blank space, but it's just as monotonous as one huge paragraph.

They're almost always entertaining.

:shrug:

.... exactly. But there are plenty of "team Democrat" idiots here, so we can use a few more non-morons. Welcome to DU.

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it seems like the MPTT's (more progressive than thou) love to imagine that there are a bunch of koolaid drinking rah-rahs on 'the other side' just because some of us don't immediately applaud everything negative and don't chime amen everytime an MPTTer writes a hyperbolic rant about how awful the Democrats are.

See, people who don't agree with me are always some type of moron or sell-out.

"If you're not with us, you're against us." Sound familar? :eyes:

It could have been an eight or a nine if you had put quotation marks around condescending.

or whatever a jejune is.

I loved the original post and very much enjoyed reading it. ROCK ON

They are people with no experience of having responsibility, either. When you do, you realize that you can't always meet expectations and that people have expectations that are unrealistic, since they don't understand the process. Try to explain it to them and some don't want to hear about it. They just want the end result done and have no respect for those actually trying to obtain the end result.

There are so many posts on DU about how easily this or that could be done so easily. That HCR can be done by reconciliation is one. Or all the armchair QBs who know how to get help to a third world nation instantly.

I love the conversation, I've met some great people-- but there are loads of people on here who seem to think that dialog on the internet is enough to get things done. And then they get frustrated and blame "the system."

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

You seem to be using it in proper context (this piece is so disjointed, it's difficult to tell), but you also seem not to understand its full meaning.

In any case, this is utter crap. I generally like long, well thought out posts. This is a long post and a waste of words.

It could have been said more succinctly as a battle between ideologues and non-ideologues, which I would tend to agree with in general, although not with the quasi-moral implications you've provided. I also think the duality is too limiting for an effective analysis.

those team Dem's don't realize how easy it is for their team to lose if all they do is unquestionably accept anything their team puts out. Fulfillment of all those campaign words means a generation of true democratic values, breaking with them could mean quite the opposite. I had never seen the 20 something generation so full of hope, so involved as they were for Obama, now I'm seeing the cynicism, the apathy return and it scares me.
Their Third Way is bullshit!

Welcome to DU!

There are those of us who know that holding power is an essential foundation for a left-wing direction.

I'm surprised this assessment does not garner more recommendations.