The Glaring Lesson Already Evident in Massachusetts.

Where in the hell are all those independents and moderate voters that the White House and our Democratic Senate have been sucking up to all year long while throwing the Leftist, activists under the bus? Surely that wizard, David Axelrod, didn't get this all wrong! That just couldn't be! Surely Axelrod has succeeded into converting oodles of independents and moderates into Democrats just in time for Tuesday to replace all those nasty "irrelevant" lefties. I mean, wasn't that the the strategy? Trash the "insignificant" Left to win the millions of moderates and Independents?

I mean, there should be millions of independent voters and moderate voters jumping at the chance now to vote for a moderate Democrat in Massachusetts on Tuesday. Where are they? Oh, no! You mean they didn't convert to be Democrats? Oh, my!

Why, tell me, is the Left now being scolded by Democratic career politicians for not getting out and working the precincts, working the phones, giving their passion and shoe-leather again? I thought that we were now "irrelevant", or so we were told right from the White House.

I gotta wonder: Why didn't all of last year's political compromising, promise breaking, corporate whoring, foreign warmongering, Wall Street loving and bank bail-outing succeed in converting millions of independents and "moderates" into Democrats to replace us who are so nasty, pesky, you know, the left-wing agitators? What happened?

Why is it, tell me, that the Democratic Party and its politicians --- who are swimming in cash from their coddling the insurance cartel and the defense contractors and the energy giants and Wall Street from their giveaways --- are now suddenly dialing 911 to the Left begging us to save their asses?

You mean that all that money might not be enough after all? Surely, they weren't wrong, were they?

You mean money doesn't vote? Surprise, surprise!

One would think that after all the compromising, all the butt-kissing of the right-wing, all of the money raised, all of the public trashing of Leftists in this country over the last 11 months, that there would now be millions upon millions of newly recruited independents and moderates to take the place of the Left, to fill our shoes, and to truly make us "irrelevant" at election time.

Uh, oh! Seems like those that were called "irrelevant" are suddenly very, very relevant, aren't we?

After sleeping around with everyone but your loyal wife, now you are coming home to your wife with lipstick on your collar, a broken zipper, booze on your breath begging for us to take you back. You know, your "irrelevant wife".

On one hand we are dismissed as "irrelevant" and "an insignificant, loud minority within the party" and then on the other hand we are begged and begged to get out once again and save the Party.

So, which is it? Are we relevant or irrelevant?

I think that the near begging by President Obama in Massachusetts to save that Senate Seat tells everyone everything they need to know about just who is relevant at election time.

There's a lesson here: You don't shit all over people who work for you, you don't betray them by going back on your promises and then call them up when your ass is in a sling.

This is the glaring lesson already evident in Massachusetts.

I had no idea and I live here!

Is there more or less outreach than normal?

http://www.marthacoakley.com/events

We're a machine, and we're cranking. We're in overdrive: on the phone, talking to friends who had no intention of voting, getting them to commit, working our asses off to win this thing. We think we can do it. We need support and H O P E that we can pull this off.

My stomach falls a little at the "hope" part but I know if peoples passions are up we have a good chance.

they had until 2012 to make amends. Fate intervened.

Word!

seat of Teddy. :(

one of the many reasons they are scaring us with, is that if idjit wins, the HC "reform" bill will not pass. In it's present form, I don't want it to pass. Presently it has none of the reforms that we said were crucial...

How can we lose with them splitting up the vote?

I thought Massachusetts was a liberal state. Isn't the Democratic candidate very liberal?

I think one very underrated factor is that Scott Browns wife has been a popular Boston News Anchor (very pretty - surprise) for 10-15 yrs and had deep contacts into every corner of Mass media. His daughter Ayla was an extremely popular American Idol singer, is a star basketball player on Boston College team and has a following of thousands of college kids. Add that to the usual dominance of Talk radio and the right wing drift of our local (Tribune) papers, ennui of liberals after last election and the RACE factor. I am on a family mailing list that is constantly bemoaning the desperate and unfair plight of the downtrodden white male. A lot of older Mass people conflate Romney and Brown with our old moderate liberal Republicans like Eliot Richardson and Frank Sargent. There are lots of local reasons. I think the media connection and the longing for a heroic white male are the two biggest somewhat hidden factors.

As usual, the real merits of issues has a lesser role to play than people assume.

The usual pattern we see in a steal is the top candidate expected to be tops in the

poll being much lower than expected ---

I think Joe Kennedy being in this is also a complication --- can he possibly win?

How is he polling?

And, didn't he leave the US Senate under pressure -- was it a little scandal over his

Catholic divorce and remarriage -- suggesting he sold his family's reputation to get

a Catholic $$$ divorce???? Was it something like that????



The elites have a lot at stake here -- if we prevent this health care deform to enrich

them, they've spent lots of money and made no progress.

If they get this health care bill thru, they will be greatly enriched -- pharma, insurance,

and "for profit" health care industry -- and they will be well on their way to

PRIVATIZING Social Security and Medicare!!


THAT's what this is all about --

this is not Joe Kennedy the ex congressman. This is an unrelated Libertarian whose name happens to be Joe Kennedy.

You know I thought odd . . . but I saw a photo which looked like Joe --

and then didn't question it --

Well, Libertarians are no belssing to our nation -- or to politics --

usually ultra right wing!

And nasty as hell!!

Thank you for setting me right here -- wonder how many others are confused by this????

voters being led astray because Joe Kenndy started Citizen's Energy when he left congress and a lot of poor and elderly people depend on their oil and gas subsidies in the winter.

I'm really not sure about even that?

If he is, he may come to realize the potential for mispent votes here?

Best wishes to you all on Tues -- !!

Thank you for your efforts.

Don't give a damn inch to those that want to wallow in defeat. There is to much at stake.

mike kohr

should have been a cakewalk, but...

i wouldn't bet the farm on obamahope. good luck tuesday.

Thanks for working hard and taking care of this issue. Thanks for not letting the turkeys get you down. Peace, Kim

sorry you have this terrible burden. It's such a concentration. So many of us would like to pitch in, if we could.

it is about your state, first and foremost, but it is about us too. I sent a donation.
So much 'cut off your nose to spite your face' stuff swirling around here.

to disavow one of his biggest supporters- hannity.

i listened to the hannity show 15 minutes at various times friday and in the 15 minutes he mentioned 3 times that coakley let some cop out without bail after he 'raped a little girl with a curling iron'- hanntys words.

i don't know the details but unless he got instructions to back off he's going to do more of that on Monday and coakley supporters ought to make a statement by getting some signs out at one of those stations of hannity's and get some media. the talk radio machine has been on coakley for 2 weeks and it has made the difference, IMO.

I have seen on the net, waaay more outreach. Obama is telling people to get out and canvass their neighborhoods..etc.. and I am thinking..wait a minute, I did that for you and look where it got me. He has gone back on many promises and positions that candidate Obama had. And yes, I (stupidly) thought that there were also inferred promises, which I have been told many times, "he never said that" (rah rah)! We must start a viable third party (really as d&r's are just different monikers for the same corporate trash), before I become inspired enough to work for and maybe even vote for another candidate. Can you hear me: Bernie Sanders, Alan Grayson, Dennis Kucinich (whom the MSM has completely marginalized). I know these people will give us REAL CHANGE as evidenced by their voting records, not just their great oratory skills.

...should have gotten secret decoder rings and a appointments as state or regional muckity-mucks.

When the job was done and the president went to work, and nobody even so much as called or texted them, well...

...that's just hurtful.

They need closure, they need our love.

:rofl:

Disappointment with the network of supporters that was created and that it wasn't turned into more.

And they seemed, a few of them, to have taken it personally.

Or so it seemed from their posts and replies following the election.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

posters who want the "DLCers" out, want moderates out, in essence want everyone OUT of that "big tent" that doesn't agree with them. To me that smacks of hypocrisy.

and the DLCers were the ones to shove the "Big Tent" talking point down our throats when we all took umbrage with Obama's appointments. It's a huge reason Martha is having problems now, yet even now those on the right of this party still won't come to terms with it. Nobody's fault but the corporatists in this party who tried forcing their agenda on everyone in this "Big Tent".

Coakley is having a hard run in one of the bluest states in the union for a reason. That reason is the DLC. I don't mind them having a voice, but they are the minority which is calling the shots, and those shots are costing the Dems seats. If their stupidity hands the House back to the GOP in November, I would agree with that poster entirely, because they will have killed one of the best chances for a progressive presidency. I too think they can either bow down to the majority, and if they don't want to do that (as they did in the healthcare debates), they can get the fuck out. Period.

If Democrats don't vote, shame on us. Our destiny lies not in our stars but in ourselves.

The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.


No.
The Corporate Masters do NOT belong in our tent.
John Edwards had it right.
"If you give THEM a seat at the table, they will eat all the food."

How did letting the Health Insurance & Pharm Industry write the Health Care "Reform" Bill work out for ya?
:hi:

YES. Great Thinking.
Lets let REPUBLICANS run the Democratic Party!

Vote for Arlen Specter,
because we don't have enough Republicans in the Democratic Party yet!!!

Who could have predicted that letting Olympia Snow and Joe Lieberman write the Health Care "Reform" Bill would piss off so many Democrats? :shrug:

exactly how? Throwing in red herrings isn't going to work, awwww.

was SPOT ON!! I could go on and on about THIS one, but won't!! Another can of worms for sure!!

Corporate personhood is the problem we have in this country that needs to be fixed by the Democrats, not "coddled" by the DLC Democrats who control the so-called "Big Tent" where they marginalize us the majority of the progressive base of PEOPLE as Democrats and try to be in control of this "Big Tent" where they represent only a small minority of PEOPLE in.

It's why true moderates like Paul Hackett get shoved out by party insiders, so that they don't expose the so-called "moderates" as the corporatists that the DLC Democrats really are.

The DLC New Team
Working Class Democrats Need NOT Apply

(Screen Capped from the DLC Website)

Meanwhile . . .

PS: We need to bring liberals/progressives together as a voting bloc nationally --

As a start at DU some have suggested the DFA forum here to begin with --

Would you come?

Meanwhile . . .

PS: We need to bring liberals/progressives together as a voting bloc nationally --

As a start at DU some have suggested the DFA forum here to begin with --

Would you come?

Very few of us would take jobs or appointments if we were offered them. Most of us already have jobs or are retired or looking for work in our own chosen careers. So this is not about jobs.

It's about Obama's compromises with the too big to fail banks, with the pharmaceutical companies, with the torturers, with the telecoms and surveillance, and most of all with the health insurance companies.

I flew to another state and walked precincts before election day and then monitored the polls on election day. I am articulate. I am great with people. I am a superb campaigner. And I volunteered for Obama. I'm no different from most other DUers who are angry with this administration.

We activist Democrats (and I have been one since I was a small child. I'm a traditional Democrat, not a socialist, not even a totally anti-war person) have not yet even been thrown a bone -- no move on civil rights like punishing torture or the illegal war -- shameful stands in trials involving Fourth Amendment rights and privacy of electronic communications -- a health care "reform" bill so bad that it makes me feel like crying -- virtually no meaningful movement on environmental issues -- and no aggressive, FDR-style broad jobs program in spite of the overwhelming and increasingly desperate unemployment situation.

So, politics is personal. Especially when you see your friends and neighbors losing their businesses, their jobs and their homes and all you get is reassurance that "We passed a stimulus bill." And you are thinking, "OK, then why is the economy so bad?"

Volunteers work for candidates and causes that they believe in. What has Obama given us to believe in?

I cannot imagine how tough it is for Massachusetts Democratic activists to get out and try to talk up voting for a candidate who is going to mean passage of a health care "reform" bill as bad as the Senate bill. (As I understand it, the Senate bill is very similar to what Massachusetts now has, and outcome in Massachusetts has not been good, not good at all.

If the Democratic fat cats want volunteers to work for them, they have to do things, stand for things, that the volunteers can honestly endorse. I cannot endorse this health care bill. I want my representative to be re-elected, but how can I campaign on that health care bill?

I read a long list of unexciting stuff that the Obama administration claims to have done, but it just isn't anything to really brag about. It's mostly routine, boring stuff. How can I point to much of anything really exciting that Obama has accomplished? It is not entirely a matter of whether I want to support my party. It is also a matter of whether I really can in good faith.

but now the air is almost gone out of my balloon! I too have been a Democrat since I was 11 years old when my father first introduced me to what it meant to be a Democrat!

As a Boomer now, I taught my children the same and so many of us have been left scratching our heads! I'm THE activist in my family but was able to get so many people mobilized behind Obama! We did EVERYTHING they asked and I recall MANY very hot Saturdays walking the streets down here! We got the job done in a VERY RED DISTRICT! Now, so many think I "used" them and I wonder if I'll ever get them to help out again!

It's just that simple down here! I worked with very few people for a very long time through the years, but with Obama my spirits were buoyed! Do I feel like a fool, I'm not sure I'm ready to say that, but I wonder... WHA Happened???

Your story, ChicB1, is mirrored by millions around the country.

Meanwhile . . .

PS: We need to bring liberals/progressives together as a voting bloc nationally --

As a start at DU some have suggested the DFA forum here to begin with --

Would you come?

This election should not even be close. The fact that it is speaks volumes.

I hope that everyone gets to read your post. As you wrote, "politics is personal" and betrayal and breaking promises and ridiculing activists is reprehensible and makes it very hard for those who worked the hardest, sacrificed the most to take another bullet for the team.

Thanks for your comments.

Meanwhile . . .

PS: We need to bring liberals/progressives together as a voting bloc nationally --

As a start at DU some have suggested the DFA forum here to begin with --

Would you come?

Meanwhile . . .

PS: We need to bring liberals/progressives together as a voting bloc nationally --

As a start at DU some have suggested the DFA forum here to begin with --

Would you come?

It is very personal. For those of us who are gay and fought the right wing during our Constitutional Convention (when the issue was gay marriage), Scott Brown is an evil troll. He consistently voted to deny marriage equality. This is the middle finger to all of us. When I see a Scott Brown yard sign or bumper sticker, it might as well read "1 Man + 1 Woman = Marriage." He makes my blood boil.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

:puke:

secret decoder rings...:eyes:

Need closure/love? :rofl:

Full of yourself.... much? :silly:

Just a sort of counter to the "it has only been one year" nonsense that thankfully is rare here but common within my local Dem Party.

No one, even a President, can serve two masters. When you make promises to both, well, it is inevitable some will be broken. Can't feel bad for that, must move on, gotta secure the dollars from the one-dollar-one-vote types.

I am starting to believe posts like that are more destructive to the "mood" than any reality based posts worded insensitively to the likes of you.

Expect to win over "the opposition" with comments like that or is it just flamebait?

I think we should define "the opposition" a little better. I have realized that just because someone has a "D" in front of their names, that doesn't make them on my side.

:toast:

However, I put average American people, the Constitution, Peace and a whole host of other things before party. It is convenient when they are aligned but not a given.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Instead we got more perma-war, wall street whoring, and health insurance deform. What Republicans could do with a 50 vote senate, we can't do with 60. Not all Obama's fault by the way, it seems that our so-called political party is a fucking joke.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

What a jerk. Welcome to ignored.

Ten years of their life prior to 2008 hoping that their many hours of working behind the scenes would one day pay off for Middle Incomed America.

Instead Obama kept Bernanke in place, appointed Geithner, handed over Key Positions at Agricultural Dept, FDA and EPA to Monsanto Clones, etc.

And not a single bigger bone has been thrown to Middle Incomed America, while many bones (and limos, if not ponies) went to Wall Street. And now with Obama expanding the Afghanistan War - more USA federal dollars to a foreign nation. (We can only capture the hearts and minds of the Afghanis by building them schools and building clean water treatment facilities - while closing down schools here.)

You may choose to find this funny, and to totally misrepresent the sentiments of those people who worked so hard for so long.

They choose to volunteer for a decade of their lives so the Middle Incomed might once again see the nation's Middle Incomed keeping their money in their pockets. (Some of my hardest working friends are in their seveties if not their eighties - they would not want the hassle of a big muckity muck local or state position if it came with a stable of ponies.) But right now these friends are pissed as hell that their children are going to be paying for the Insurance "Reform" and Giveaway Program of 2010. While we continually drain the taxpayer's dwindling largesse with the theme of endless wars and endless "anti-terror" campaigns.

Ya know, like that great social ideologist, FDR--another one of those dirty socialists. I mean get with the program, corporatism over people is here to stay-it's in our nature to be greedy, selfish pigs.:sarcasm:

However, as a progressive, if I was in Mass. I'd vote for the Democrat, just because Brown is as scary as teabaggers and the former * regime. We do not need another catering to and endorsed by ignorant hate spewing screwballs--I mean we already have people like Inhofe, Boehner, Bachman and others on the dingy, crazy extreme right--and, it would be the highest insult to the memory of Ted Kennedy to have this cretin take his seat.

But if Coakley gets in and doesn't act as progressive as Teddy it wil be a different type of insult.

Like Bush insulted me on the level that I was scared silly by his associates - Rumsfeld and Cheney and Ashcroft and others.

But the Pro Corporate crowd that are such "Feel Good" Good Fellows, they scare me silly also - and on a different level.

When your enemy stabs you in the back, you've expected it. But when a blood relative (or someone claiming to be) does it, it's a whole new level of terror.

And it is much broader than Mass. I believe all those independents and moderates were attracted to the thought of another FDR coming in and kicking some corporate ass and giving the middle class a foothold in this fucked up economy. What actually happened is he turned into another Bill Clinton capitulator in chief. Don't rock the boat, just say what you have to to get elected. That is turning the stomachs of the so-called leftists, and who wouldn't expect it to do so for the indies and mods? In the meantime, you have the faux populists from the right acting as if it is they who are on the side of the little guy. Couple that with the amnesia afflicted public and here we are talking about losing Ted Kennedy's Senate seat. Who could've ever seen that coming?

Word!

Tell it, CANDO!

Well said.

Many people came out in '08 to support Obama because they thought he would be a populist leader who'd fight for the middle class. That is lefties, indies & mods, and even some righties like my mom. As Hartmann says, the voters of '08 projected their hopes or fears onto him. In the case of those who supported him, they liked the idea of someone standing up to the powerful corporations & entrenched elites. But since Obama got elected, he's been governing from the right, breaking campaign pledges, and throwing his base under the bus. Instead, he's been cozying up to the very powers we hoped he'd dismantle.
That said, I'm afraid he's going to go down as a hybrid of Carter & Clinton; he campaigned from the left, governed from the right, will occupy the white house for only one term, and the MSM will be sure he's remembered as an ineffective Dem president, ensuring many more years of populist dissatisfaction with Dems & lib-ruls in general.

Is that many people came out in '08 to support Obama, but couldn't be assed to look at his platform, pay attention to his speeches, etc.

I like how not even one year in, you're making predictions (I would guess you're actually expressing hopes...) that he will be an ineffectual one-termer.

Very well said.

Alyce

Group started to boycott donations to Democrats until progressive laws are passed:

http://gay.americablog.com/2009/11/dont-ask-dont-give.html

:applause: :applause: :applause:

And since the Puppet Masters do not care as they donate to both sides of the aisle, it matters not one whit.

The only thing that would make it matter to them is if someday a truly liberal FDR type did get in a top notch spot and wield some power.

But ya know, even then, there are always engagements requiring travel. Grayson shoud really figure out a safe ride to use for the next ten years or so.

The problem we have is exactly why I couldn't support HRC in the primaries. Most all of us understood how Bill Clinton had governed from the center right, and therefore I thought she would also. I was initially a John Edwards supporter. We know now how that would've ended tragically. For me, Obama was really the only viable alternative. Kucinich? Where to begin? He was the most liberal of any, but would he ever have been treated seriously by the corpo-media?

the PRESENT national strategy, as opposed to Howard Deans' strategy which was quite different.

.

This is the tip of a major iceberg. As the republican party shrinks, the republicans move into our tent bringing their ideology with them (ala Arlen Specter). This is not good for our party. It appears that the DLC/corporatists are choosing to woo the new corporatist DINO's in lieu of the left. And I think you will find these new DINO's will vote republican when the candidate isnt Palin.

THEY are supporting Republican Arlen Specter in the Democratic Primary in Pennsylvania.
Say NO! to the Dinos and help elect a REAL Democrat in the Pennsylvania Primary!



Donate to a REAL Democrat for Senate here:
http://www.joesestak.com/Home/Home.html

...because we already have enough Republicans in the Democratic Party.

I've always thought the big money type were using the DLC to make the democraitic party the new home for non-wacko repugs. Especially since the repug party itself was too poisoned by non-white racial intolerance and hatred to be a credible party in a increasingly more biracial future. I think what they didn't realize that many of the progressive base would eventually catch on and resisting it. Even to the point of possibly ditching the dems for other pastures, turning it into a ineffective party.

MA should be a wake-up call folks! Please pay heed to it.

MA? Maybe the Bluest State in the union? Kennedy's seat? This should be a shoe-in. But here I am in Upstate NY and I have received at least three urgent appeals for help in MA - and I'm not even a Dem - those are from other sources aligned with Progressive organizations.

I think the point of the OP is that maybe the Administration's decision to align itself with Corpo-friendly positions and getting itself tarred as the friend of Banksters and Insurance Vampires ain't so popular out in the streets? Maybe them somehow managing to accomplish the near impossible feat of both burdening the electorate with a mandate to BUY insurance while simultaneously absorbing most of the cost of health care and thus burdening the taxpayers even more, all the while increasing the deficit (not something I care about in these times when deficit spending is called for but I do sure as hell care who profits from that deficit, and it ain't going to be the people, alas) - thus fulfilling all the fears of the "big gubm't" cellar-crouchers while alienating progressives and allowing the Rs to take the populist position - could one even imagine a more mind-boggling FUBAR?

If MA is any indicator, they are not gaining any friends among their imaginary "center."

Thanks! It's the Holy Ghost to DLC Democrats. They truly believe it exists.

"the Centrists" as the D's "imaginary friends." It may be gallows humor, and not the sort I'd choose to amuse myself with in an ideal world, but some humor helps me offset the anger.

And when attending a recent party, all the progressives were saying they have had it with the Corporate Dems.

However long it takes they are not working for the DLC or anyone who could become such.

Obama's policies, Pelosi's policies, Di Fi's policies have only hurt the Party. Of course, the voting machines can belong to whomever the Powers that Be feel is needed most, and there are many reasons to have a black President in office, someone so likeable. Many of the reasons for this need lie far outside our borders -we still have Africa to put in chains and how much better if it is a Brother doing the speech making to the natives there.

I am really thinking that like some others that I know, that just getting all spiritual and having a massage now and then rather than working (and donating) for the Dems would at least help me... Working for the Dems hasn't gotten me or anyone I know very much. (Well one friend did trade her clunker for a new car, but that is hardly an offset to the Trillions given to the scum suckers on Wall Street.)

At least a massage might tone down the stress. Politics certainly doesn't. And with the voting machinery the way it is now, I don't see much hope.

Scott brown is a coward, Would rather give up his national guard duty then be deployed. He is narcissistic, vain and stupid. Did not do anything in the Senate. Sold a lot of his daughters albums to the elderly at functions. I would hate to see him in the US Senate. It would be a disaster. He would be kissing the leadership's butt. He is a real Republican. Not an independent like he is trying to claim he is. Remember all Republicans LIE.

About everything. Try not to forget that.

Julie--lowly footsoldier in real world.

vote, and the same for O. Now I call my friends and they yawn. All of us will go to the voting booth and we will vote for Coakley for one reason and one reason only and that is because she has a D after her name, but there is no enthusiasm. We are tired of being used. We are not excitedly exchanging stories of phone banking or street walking and canvasing; That includes myself, who no longer trust the word of this admin or its oblique right turn, or the dino's and bluedogs they support and promote to office with the warning, "its a D or return to the dastardly, bogus past admin", which works to a point, but there is no enthusiasm for that kind of (we are using you, get over it cus you got no choice) tack.

However, IMO the OP was trying to point out a huge problem the Democratic Party is facing as well demonstrated right here in river city (DU).

The Democratic tent got so big that a lot of ex-republicans entered bringing their ideology with them. It appears to me that the DLC is wooing them and disrespecting the left. But this can back fire as we may be seeing in your state. With the Democrats greatly out numbering the republicans, if Brown should win it may well be that the left stayed home and the new DINO's (ex-republicans) voted Brown.

I am more than willing to give Pres Obama time to fix the mess that bush made. However, I question the motives of Rahm spitting at the left. How does his agenda differ from the left? That is the issue. Which issues that the left champions does he disagree with?

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

:bounce:

Just do the math. Two percent of the vote (or half of 1 percent of the vote, etc.) doesn't even get you a coalition government in countries where there are coalition governments...

I see all the time that my posts will initially get positive recs and then they go down the drain. I have a plan to catch this activity though.

Hasn't turned out the way you hoped, has it.

That's how it works. :)

Oh perceptive one. :thumbsup:

i rec'd..it was still at a minus and this was a news article re the failure in afghanistan..i can only shake my head and KNOW that these people must be paid to do this..way too diligent in their effort to keep up the happy talk and kool aid party

.

and there are quite a few reasons:

1-Can't stand the thought of Scott Brown as my Senator, and possible front runner for 2012.

2-I like Martha

3-I don't want the fuckers on this board blaming Martha Coakley for dismantling Obama's regressive, un liberal, un progressive agenda, when it's all his fault and the Dem leaderships fault that she is in the predicament.

All of that outweighs the real desire to just sick back and watch the barn burn.

It's lovely to read this. I would NOT blame Coakley for dismantling the - uh - er :lmao: whatchmacallit :rofl: -

I would blame the Dems in Mass that didn't even try to make a go of it. I like reading that one is going to go out and vote.

Thanks you!

...and I will be harassing my housemate to do so as well, which I expect he will once encouraged.

(Hmm... I wonder what effect the fact college population is arriving at school this weekend has had on polling)

I didn't think of that! When I was at Niagara - we always came back from Winter Break on the Sunday before MLK day . . . Those college age adults WOULD have a tremendous impact on the Boston Area polling alone . . .

My daughter graduated last year from a MA college and they had huge registration drives last year. I hope that the Coakley campaign is working to make sure the college kids are pushed to vote. (It would be great if she could get one of the Obamas to do a message just for all the college kids. )

My OP does not call for sitting back and watching the barn burn.

It points out who votes when election time comes.

With the overwhelming advantage we have there, this race should be an easy one to win by a landslide.

It isn't. And that's what I call the glaring message.

Obama needs his base or he will be a lame duck quickly.

but I must be truthful, i was planning on sitting this one and all of 2010 out.

But I can think for myself. No centrist here convinced me or succeeded in battering me into it, I whole heartedly think the dems are on a dreadful path.

Brown is a monster. That's reason enough.

Vote against him.

And, Obama is better than Bush. That's true.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Vote against Brown. He is a horrible person and so far off from what we want in a legislator. I am voting against brown and not for coakley. Please do the same. I'm not a centrist, I am not trying to batter you, but as a woman AND a leftie I am asking you not to let that jerk represent us in DC.

Then maybe we can work together to primary her out in 2012 with a real leftie. Please.

Bloody fecking EST! Sucks to be a former swing shift worker.

:thumbsup:

BTW, I do think she'll win it on Tuesday.

Us worthless, irrelevant (not to mention whiny and bitter!) lefties will do our duty, at least one more time.

Because, despite all the rants and accusations from DU's self-appointed Enforcers Of Party Doctrine... we know what we're doing here. We're not sheep, nor are we suicide bombers. We're the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party.

And I'm sure the Enforcers who, as you've rightly pointed out, have been all over the map excoriating us... I'm sure they'll say Thank You and come to their senses when all is said and done, right? :D

We need her to win.

I think you summed it all up here: "Us worthless, irrelevant (not to mention whiny and bitter!) lefties will do our duty, at least one more time." I like that.

But, still, what does this say about November?

... if top Democrats in D.C. can snap out of their stupor.

Win or lose Tuesday, I'm extremely curious to see what message they take away from this race.

Maybe Pres. Obama gets it already. I liked his statement to the bankers, where he said, essentially, it's our money and we're taking it back.

That's exactly the right tone, IMO, and can carry us a long way if he and other leading Dems really mean it, and back it up with some meaningful actions that make clear, instinctive sense to ordinary people.

the back of taxpayer money, it is worth noting that the impact of the Obama charge will be just 7pc to 8pc of third-quarter profit.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/article-1243635/JP-Morgan-Chase-joins-bankers-heap-insult.html#ixzz0cs6F9KFl

And how much of that would survive the intervening inflation? Ten years is a log time for just 7% to 8% of third quarter profit.

good Repug - well, Lieberman excepted, perhaps - but the heroism required on the part of so many of those Dems, who had to wait hour upon hour in disgraceful, essentially fraudulent queues, to exercise their right to vote for their President, was based on hope!!!! Unfortunately, it was not the theological virtue, based on things to come in the next life; a return was expected for it.

You watch....the MSM will be pimping that message to the masses as soon as a winner is declared. Come to think of it, they already are pimping that message on the basis of their push polling data.

I'm just pickiing on you as the straw that hit the camels back, but why is this wing of the Democratic party so much more worthy, so entitled, and so sure they are the only ones that count? Why is the left wing of the Democratic party better and more deserving (and victimized if they are not obeyed) than the right wing of it, or the center of it?

The point is that the leadership and DLC types here have spent months telling the liberals that we are irrelevant and now suddenly, they are saying this election hinges on liberal votes. For months they said outright that independents and moderates are the groups that elect people, that liberals can not get more than 2% of the vote, and on and on. And yet, somehow in MA, the moderates and independents are not going Democratic. Where are they?
During this last year, on DU, I have been directly told for example that Obama and the Party simply do not need GLBT voters because they have the 'faith community' and pro Obama Republicans called 'Obamacans'. I have been told that those groups represent more votes than we do, and those groups need to hear bigotry as proof of 'bona fides' so when they used McClurkin and then Warren it was fine, because our votes were not needed to attain victory. Now, on the other hand, apparently the whole of the Party's future lies with liberals and gay people, because there are no Obamacans and 'moderates' vote for Republicans, as do the rightish 'indies'.
It is just stupid to tell people they are not relevant to your objectives and then turn on a dime and say that they are the deciders of all fate.
Basically, the DLC/DNC has declared that when we win, liberals have no part in the victory, but when the Party fails, it is 100% the fault of 'the left'. You can not blame your cake and eat it too. Clear enough for you?
You right wingers always frame equality as 'special treatment'. Get a new game.

"You can't blame your cake and eat it, too." I wish I'd said that. Word!

:applause:

Artless, but telling. Do you really find it surprising that people who've been Democrats longer than some of the fanboys here have been alive... are you really surprised they feel they have an important stake in all this?

Or is it that you're just startled every time the fieldhands expect to share in the products of their toil? Is that your point of view in all this, that of the Owner Caste? Is that why you're projecting that nonsense onto everyone else?

:shrug:

Thumbs up to everything you said here.

:yourock:

But unlike Sarah Palin's fish, these fish ain't dead and they're tired of swimming upstream.

after he wins the election, you kiss his.

(A lesson taught to me by my very Irish, very Democrat uncle. He had a long and happy career as a steel worker in Pittsburgh, Pa.)

:)

His office listened to everyone and would help when it could. He was a true Democrat and a great campaigner.

I've done some work for Coakley this week, but her campaign did not organize or reach out to activists early enough to build a foundation. They thought the unions and ads would let her keep her 30 pt. lead. Coakley barely hit the streets after the primary (actually even before the primary). It was like Hillary Clinton before Iowa, listening to her insiders telling her she was going to win easily.

I hope Coakley wins and I hope she learns from this experience that you cannot take any election or the activists who get out the vote for granted.

Scott Brown is a superficial pretty boy who is barely coherent. He is trying to pass himself off as being JFK - seriously, Dan Quayle had a better case. He dresses up in a military uniform and work clothes and stands next to a pickup truck and spouts anti-Washington, anti-tax, faux populist pablum - conveniently leaving out his Republican creds. If Coakley had had a moderate Republican man with a bit of gravitas (Mass. eats up women candidates), she would have been left in the dust.

And, fellow lefties, think of this : If Brown wins we will have to listen to all the media gasbags pontificating that Democrats across the country must move further right to win the 2010 elections. Auuuurrrrgh!!! So get out and vote for Coakley - we need her to win. However, after the election I hope she remembers that she needs us.

it's tragic that we lost him before the final draft of the heathcare bill.

I wonder how he would have felt about the bill in its current form.

I believe there would have been a different bill out of the Senate if he were there to herd it through. I also believe Obama would not have dismissed him as easily as he has other progressives. And I believe Teddy would have helped Harry Reid get a spine by taking some of the Democrats voting like Republicans to the wood shed and calling in some markers.

That said, the politics of the last year have been a DLC-ified disaster.

Alienate liberals, progressives and activists, insult the DNC chair who helped get you in office, disappoint the youth, piss off the unions.

Not exactly the ticket for victory.

When the DLCers are the only ones cheering, you are in trouble.

It will be a disaster if this creep actually wins. You're a good one, freddie.

you think that if independents and moderate Democrats don't show up to vote, Democrats can carry an election with just progressive voters?

Clue: The point is to get as many Democrats, of all stripes, to vote as possible.




edited typo

It seems self evident to them that they should get everything they want (even if we can't get it with this Congress) or they are entitled to feel like victims! The center or even right wing of the party don't count, what they want doesn't count, they can't even compromise for part of it without being considered big meanies who deserve to lose their support, which is also apparently so numerous and so strong that it will cause the republicans to be in power, which is what we deserve for not "fighting" hard enough for what they want.

So they will live under a Repuke regime and be happy! They made the Democrats pay! That's all that matters.

We're not talking about getting 50% of what we want and then feeling like victims, as you assert. Name one "progressive" change that has happened this year. Other than changing the global gag rule, which is something I think pretty much 70% of Dems. can agree on, I can't think of anything at the moment.

that's NOT what we're saying. We aren't more special than anyone else however we've been told to kiss Rahm's ass and that we don't matter. Have the centrists/moderates/right wing been treated like that?? Nope.

We do not want idiots like Brown to win. Most of us are smart enough to know the consequences and will go out and vote.
Some may not though. I can't speak for them.

Even when the "centrists" get absolutely everything they want handed to them on a silver platter with a big huge velvet bow, they still won't call themselves Democrats,and will vote for the first pretty idiot boy who comes along chanting "lower taxes lower taxes lower taxes."

It does little good to give the "centrists" everything they want and more--which is what Obama has done--because

1. the policies they want are either immoral (anti-gay) or don't work (cut services! lower taxes!)
2. they still won't vote for you next time around.

And you drove it home, lolly. :)

You're not cutting any slack tonight, are you? :-)

Those "independents" are snails. They have no backbone and very little substance. Sprinkle a little salt on their heads and they would probably shrivel up and disappear?

They can go as the winds blow. In the last election, the winds were blowing against George W Bush and the Republicans so they jumped ship. They can do that because they are "independents". They thought their support for the Repubs had almost destroyed this country. So they joined the Obama campaign or they dropped out of the last election.

Now they have returned. With their arms wrapped around the tea baggers, they are proclaiming themselves "fiscal conservatives", as if they really knew the definition. They are "independents" like Joe Lieberman is an "independent"...

...The fact is, only 35% of the country thinks this no-public-option/corporate mandate HR "reform" is better than doing nothing at all, even though overwhelming majorities (77% by some polls) favor HC reform with a public plan like Medicare available as an option to all Americans.

A public plan available to all Americans is NOT a left-wing position. It is centrist in the true sense. It is supported by 77% of grassroot Americans.

The fact is, progressives are more in touch with middle America than are the corprocrats.

It is only among politicians that "centrist" is synonymous with corporate whore.

By calling a public plan "left" is to accept the semantics of the RW propaganda machine.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

:kick: :thumbsup:

let's hope big O keeps up the liberated politician viewpoint, I like this guy better. he sounded like candidate O!

the "base" of the right often feels exactly the same way, and for the same reason. Admittedly, in 2008 the 'Republican wing of the Republican Party' was a hell of a lot more unhappy with McCain than the leftists with Obama, but still the discontent over Bush was much the same. And thus it's probably been since the Roman Republic.
*THAT'S* why they are fired up about Palin, the same way I'd feel if Dean, Kucinich or Grayson were running; left or right how many times to you get to vote for a true believer as opposed to merely the least smarmy, corporatist and thuggish of two entities?

The election is close. It shouldn't be so. Not in that great state. That's what I wrote.

... it DON'T MATTER. It shouldn't and wouldn't be this close to begin with, this is MASSASSCHUSETTS.

Don't Ask Don't Tell, Gitmo, wars, etc., etc., etc.

Seriously, did this guy follow through on ANY campaign promise??????

They said that we were irrelevant. They kicked us to the side. Now let's see how much all that whore money is worth in the next election cycle. You can't pay people enough money to work as hard and as long as we did for Obama. He kicked us to the side and now we will just stay home.

Bush Sr. saw what happens when you ax murder your base. Now it is Obama's time.

Ain't hubris a bitch!

K and R

To keep that fragile majority in the Senate.

So when the corp-a-dems don't do ANYTHING with that majority, they won't have any excuses

Obama and the DNC, the clearest case of talk the talk but no walk the walk I've ever seen

filled with sturm und drang :eyes:

:boring:

...it looks like whatever weird power dynamics in Washington are going on has caused the party to throw damn near every possible constituency under the bus.

Let's be honest, the only people having their voices heard are those who have paid for political favors. It didn't have to be this way, but it is really hard to ignore that it is happening. We can call it "politics as usual" and "the cost of doing business in DC", but when only one party is running the show for most intents and purposes the extent to which this is true becomes really obvious and is easily pinned on whoever is running the show.

The Republicans were nailed for that behavior back in 2006 (and beyond), and for whatever reason there are many Democrats in DC who think they are immune to the eventual consequences of that behavior only a few years later. A winning coalition isn't built by doing the exact same things that caused the Republicans to get booted just a few years before.

I don't think Americans are in the mood for this kind of nonsense. Even in San Francisco, where I live, there is a significant fraction of people that are really tired of the puerile pork-driven politics and the propping up of connected politicians that are transparently sub-standard representatives of the people. The abandoning even a pretense of good governance is not something many Democrats can ignore just because our team is running the show. It makes it far worse in many ways than if it was the Republicans.

Republicans barely make an attempt to govern though. Dems always talk a good show and carry through better than any modern day Republican is even capable with a few exceptions.

That said, more and more of us have a lot of extra time on our hands and the Great Recession if it does nothing else, may get us all more interested in policies and community. I know it is getting people talking more than I have ever seen but I am only 41. The party in power during the awakening, when it gets past whatever tipping point, better be acting on the side of the people.

You write: "Even in San Francisco, where I live, there is a significant fraction of people that are really tired of the puerile pork-driven politics" and I hope people read this. It is the liberal bastions where Obama and the Democrats are in trouble, where the disillusionment is the greatest, where the anger is near boiling.

individuals..all i need to do generally is make one reference to this administration and i get comments like..'i'm done'..'what a joke'..i'm disgusted..the few who still believe could not tell you anything about policy or actual events during this past year

Rahm Emanuel and the DLC crowd are at it again. Do I smell James Carville nearby?

:hi:

I'll cheer the Dem win. However, if we lose, there really are worse things. We might abandon the 60 vote excuse. Our Dem leaders seem just as likely to go all out and focus on getting a single Republican vote rather than get all "uncivilized" and reform the filibuster though.

Absolutely understand the frustration of MA Dems to hear anyone say these things.

If they lose, they might move further to the right.

Idiots. But I wouldn't be surprised.

They will take the wrong message and move more to the right.

Let's hope that we do win, that this monster is not allowed into the Senate.

.. arrogant assholes need to be taught, time after time. Even more so, in a time when real time information is readily available. Sell us out, we WILL toss your asses out.

and this country would not have made it to the 21st Century. The Left built the better part of American society, have been its moral, creative and artistic light. Without us, America would have been a Fascist state and turned the world into a radioactive cinder. Yet, we have been repeatedly screwed over, purged, Red-Baited, ignored, neglected, spied upon, lynched, and manipulated by the Corporate Yes Men and their legions of cynical professional Pols and pea-brained Right-wing goon squads.

We need to gather ourselves back together and finally do what we've never done. Take our country back.

Wow, just wow.

Obama is an extraordinary orator. But he doesn't walk the talk.

The Wobblies and tens of thousands of Leftists were rounded up under the Democratic President Wilson's oversight.

I am a Leftist without apology. We have a great tradition and history.

Your write: "The Left built the better part of American society, have been its moral, creative and artistic light. Without us, America would have been a Fascist state and turned the world into a radioactive cinder." That's more than true because it is not recognized as the truth, hence "more than true".

The great delusion is that Americans have been brainwashed into believing that capital built America. It didn't. Labor built America and a lot of it was slave labor and child labor.

"The great delusion is that Americans have been brainwashed into believing that capital built America. It didn't. Labor built America and a lot of it was slave labor and child labor."

Wonderful OP, and fascinating thread. Very fun to read.

There are some here who know better, but think I want us to lose on Tuesday. Those that know me, know better. I will probably become violently ill if we lose.

I am so, so happy you are back among us. Your son did you proud. :hi:

I am telling you guys, I am a self employed cancer survivor. I will take whatever I can get to stay alive for one more day. If you give another inch to the tea baggers, you may not survive. Staying alive will give you one more day to fight back. I live in Wichita, the Koch brothers are very powerful. They have always been able to get the poor boy to fight the rich mans war. And the poor boy don't even know he's doing it, he thinks it is his war. Don't let a repug get another seat. These guys know how to sway opinion. Did they crap up the bill so both sides will hate it? That is good, they are good. Don't give them another inch.

That is an excellent point, and
one that illustrates the terrible battle we go through every time we have to do the "lesser of two evils" thing at election time. It is often the immediate danger we face if the right gains seats, against the long term danger that we are institutionalizing our position as throw away voters, used and quickly forgotten.
I feel that it is the long term danger that is worse in the end, because it has resulted in the continual corruption of our system of governance, allowing elected officials to constantly water down the returns we voters were supposed to receive, alienating many would-be voters. Our ideal of Democracy is in very serious danger, most especially due to the near complete co-opting of our MSM by right wing and corporate money, with the net result that fewer citizens are as informed as they need to be.
Where the Democratic Party could step in and help fill that gap, the leadership chooses not to. They are only concerned with educating and retaining voters long enough to win elections, and then they cut them loose for the rest of the year. I can only conclude that many of them fear the power of an informed and organized electorate, for it's potential to curb their power and make them redundant, and also ( I believe) for ideological reasons, as the people are usually far more progressive than their so-called leaders.
The bottom line of these twin evils is evident in the thin margins of victory or defeat that make people so afraid to rock the boat. That situation is a direct result of 'business as usual' winning out in the battle for the media played ever since Reagan.
For most of America, it is still the MSM that brings them the daily / weekly view of the nation and the world. For those of us who understand the need to seek out more info, I think it is crucial for us to be able to debate this issue and through that debate be able to access more than one or two opinions, and share informed sources that can help us make our decisions.
I tend to agree with the OP, but your post is absolutely critical to the discussion as it is a true reflection of our current political reality, and thank you for it.

Welcome to DU.

part.

..is wait until the election is over and the votes are counted. I hope and pray we retain that MS Senate seat. If not then indeed, it is a sign of the times for the Corporate Dem establishment.

... is that there are quite a few people that aren't even going to show up at the polls because of their anger with Obama and their view of Coakley as being another 'politician' that is going to say anything to get elected. I find it insane personally but I can't force someone to vote. However, I do not understand how Kennedy's seat was so easily attainable by the Repugs...

until we establish some new rules.

:)