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Fiendish Thingy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 12:47 PM
Original message
For my 1,000th post: "O, Canada..."
For only the second time in around 16 years, we didn’t host Thanksgiving at our home. Instead, we traveled from California to Washington State to celebrate the holiday with my Father-In-Law and his wife and her adult children and grandchildren.
The following day, Friday, November 27, my wife, my son, my daughter and myself, crossed the border into Canada and “landed” as Permanent Residents. Earlier in the week, while speaking with my mom on the phone, she asked “tell me again why you’re moving? Are you having a mid-life crisis? I know, it’s politics”. I told my mom it was much more than politics, which I define as the partisan competition for power and influence in government; I told her the short answer to explain why I was becoming a Canadian Permanent Resident was for my “peace of mind”.

Peace of mind.

That was the answer I gave over and over to friends, family, acquaintances and total strangers over this holiday weekend when they learned we had “landed” in Canada. In some cases, folks nodded knowingly, sympathetically. In most cases they understood “peace of mind” as code for “let’s not get into the nitty gritty details of this right now”. Of course, there’s much more behind the phrase “peace of mind”, as I will explain below.

After Bush was appointed to the Presidency by the Supreme Court in 2000, and following 9/11, the Patriot Act, and the media manipulation/complicity leading to the Iraq War, I felt more than anger over the ways things were going in the U.S.A. I felt the very foundations of what defines America were crumbling before my eyes- free and fair elections, the Rule of Law, separation of powers, the Constitution, were all being destroyed and rendered meaningless.

Then, in 2004, with another stolen election, and the revelations about Abu Graib and Gitmo, my despair over the death of America overflowed; I began researching the process of becoming a permanent legal resident of Canada. Both my kids were still in high school at the time, and my wife thought I was nuts, even though she agreed with me about all the important issues that brought me to the point of wanting to emigrate.

Although serious discussion of moving to Canada stayed on the back burner for a couple of years, I continued to research the immigration process, while recoiling in horror at each revelation of each new atrocity committed by the Bush/Cheney administration. As I would share the information about these war crimes and other civil rights desecrations with my wife, she would often jokingly affect a Canadian accent and remark “Eh?”. I could tell she was coming around to my way of thinking.

Finally, the passage of the Military Commissions Act of 2006, with the complicity of the Democrats in Congress, was the final straw. An unconstitutional law, giving the President the power to suspend habeas corpus for an individual at his discretion, as well as the power to define what torture is and isn’t, despite existing international definitions of torture. I began to speak openly, assertively about beginning the process to move to Canada.

During all the preceding events, I wasn’t just sitting at home silently wringing my hands or merely posting histrionic tirades on DU against the Bushies. I was actively lobbying my elected representatives about these issues I cared very much about. I even give myself some of the credit for badgering my Congressman into co-sponsoring Kucinich’s bill calling for the impeachment of Bush and Cheney.
Finally, in the summer of 2007, on my 50th birthday, my wonderful wife consented to beginning the process to become Canadian residents.

We called an immigration lawyer and started to gather all the required documentation. Other than getting our immigration physicals, the process consisted of waiting, and waiting…and waiting. As the 2008 election unfolded, we hoped, as did many millions, for significant, tangible change from the arrogance and lawlessness of the previous eight years. Unfortunately, it has become clear in the this first year of Obama’s term, that any real change in the status quo is not forthcoming in the near future; no substantive action has been taken regarding the core critical issues I care so deeply about. In fact, on many of these issues, Obama is supporting or continuing the policies of the Bush administration.

In addition, my home state, California, is quickly disintegrating.

So, at the end of last summer (2009) we were informed that our visas had been approved. We would have to land before our medical exams expired in January 2010. With both kids in college now (one in Los Angeles, 5 hours from our home), there were only two windows where they would be available to travel to Canada with us- the week between Christmas and New Year’s, and Thanksgiving Weekend. We chose the latter. And so, in one day, November 27th, we landed, met with our lawyer, applied for our Social Insurance Numbers, and opened a Canadian bank account. Whew!

Peace of Mind, at last. Or at least the beginnings of it.

By moving to Canada, I’ll be living in a land where the following are guaranteed by law:
• Universal, single payer healthcare for all
• A woman’s right to choose
• An individual’s freedom to marry whomever they choose


Nevertheless, I’m under no illusions that Canada is a Utopia offering refuge to a progressive like myself from the developing despotism and third-world, banana republic conditions in America. But it does offer me a way to avoid supporting the unconstitutional crimes committed in my name, with my taxes.

Call it the coward’s way out.

Yes, I guess I’m a coward for not being willing to face the consequences of tax evasion, or fomenting revolution (I’ll leave that to the teabaggers). I haven’t lost any loved ones from 9/11, Katrina or the Iraq/Afghanistan wars, but I’m traumatized nonetheless. By moving to Canada, I am getting some emotional distance from, and I am withdrawing my financial support* for the following :

• Illegal/immoral wars
• Bank bailouts
• Wiretaps
• Elimination of the Rule of Law
• Military Commissions Act/Elimination of habeas corpus
• Lack of Government Transparency hiding behind “State Secrets”
• Corporate control of both major parties and the media
• The despicable cultural phenomena know as “virtuous cruelty” (term coined by another DU’er- I forget who, or I’d give credit)

And last but not least:

Torture- this is the big one. America gave up its role as the leader of the Good Guys for a little bloodthirsty revenge disguised as “enhanced interrogation”. Although the USA couldn’t claim a spotless record prior to the Global War on Terror, our conduct since 9/11 has erased any positive reputation for setting the standards for conduct during wartime.

So now, the waiting is over and the work begins: preparing our home for sale in the worst real estate market in decades; moving to a short term rental; looking for jobs in Canada; and finally, in the next year or so, moving to Canada permanently. I’ve been grateful for the advice, tips and support offered by Canadian DU’ers, and give thanks in advance for help I will ask for in the future regarding settling in British Columbia.

Until then, in the immortal words of the MacKenzie brothers:

Good Day, eh? :)





* Yes, I’m aware that I’ll still have to file US income taxes even though I’ll be living in Canada, but I expect we will be taking a hefty pay cut in our combined incomes, as much as 50%, at least in the beginning. Because of this, we will fall within the range for the “foreign tax credit” and thus will pay no US income taxes. In addition, we will do very little shopping in the US, and won’t be paying any money to the corporations (phone companies, energy/oil companies, insurance compamies, banks, etc.) that run this country and control most of our leaders.
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thunder rising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm jealous, but I don't deal well with the cold. (MN for 2 years)
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Christa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. The cold is a small price to pay for peace of mind
I cannot understand why people often use the weather as a reason. The weather is only a problem when one lives under a bridge.


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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Vancouver is temperate, but wet...
kinda like Seattle.

Sid
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thunder rising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
28. I spent two years in Seattle working for that aerospace company there.
There was a saying, that it doesn't matter how warm the day is, your backside is always cold. And, it's true.

I'm going to stay here and keep duking it out.

But know I totally respect and admire your decision.
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. Its warmer on the east side of Vancouver Island than former residences in the states
East and west coast.

Except in the summer...doesn't get much above 75. Can't beat that.
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HeresyLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. Welcome to Canada, eh?!
Glad to have you aboard. We need more good people!
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
4. Congrats to you!
We moved up to Vancouver Island in 2008, due to many of the reasons you mentioned. So far, I really love it up here. I wrote this post when I packed up our car:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3589610

Yeah, as long as you make under 84K a person (or something like that), you don't have to pay additional taxes to the US (even if you make more than that, it may be negligable). So filing taxes is no big deal in the US. You'll still see plenty of American companies here though, but there are also good Canadian alternatives (to make sure your money doesn't drip back to funding war).
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StarfarerBill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
5. Enjoy it, you lucky so-and-so.
;)
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CK_John Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
7. You will be surprised when BC and Alberta become our next two states. n/t
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. I think the rest of Canada would be surprised too...
since there's not the slimmest chance of that happening.

Sid
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CK_John Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. How are we going to protect our oil lines from Palin's place down to lower 48? n/t
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. LOL, you lost that fight in 1812!
It might be time to stop living in the past, eh!
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
8. Good for you. K&R
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
9. Welcome...
Hope you like BC. :hi:

Sid

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mochajava666 Donating Member (771 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
11. Been toying with the idea for years
I plan on sticking around for a while yet, but within 5 years, I might be Canadian also.

Torture is unforgivable.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
15. Welcome to Canada!
We can use all the help we can get to throw out the CRAP (Conservative/Reform/Alliance Party) now in power! I realize you won't have a vote, at least, in time for our next election but feet on the ground is as essential!
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JBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
16. Great post, and welcome to BC!
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Grey Donating Member (933 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
17. Welcome Home.
I think you'll like it here.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
18. Like, Welcome to Canada, eh?
I'll open up a two-four to celebrate in your honour (oh, yeah, note the spelling. We use "honour" and "neighbour" and a whole bunch of different spellings)!

Oh, and you'll be issued your obligatory pair of hockey skates soon. Don't fight it.

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Fiendish Thingy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. We're saving up to buy a Costco size case of "U's"
to help with the Canadian spelling. ;)
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. There is also a requirement to take an "eh" course....
We have "eh?" - which mean no shit?

We have EH! - which means damn straight!

We have eh?!? - which means you are full of shit

and this is just an introductory course to the introductory course EH!

(It's all in the vocal inflection (no "eh" needed here))
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
20. When you kiss the ground, may your lips freeze to the pavement!
> > > So fucking envious right now < < <
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Fiendish Thingy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
21. Thanks for the love and recs!
I look forward to chatting more with Canadian DU'er's and expats (or as I prefer to say, Patriots-In-Exile).
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
23. See if you can get Canada to adopt Washington as a province. Baja B.C.?
Edited on Tue Jan-19-10 01:43 PM by Tierra_y_Libertad
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Lucy Goosey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. I would love that!
(I'm Canadian.) Can we have Oregon, California, NY, and Hawaii, too?
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
24. "Call it the coward’s way out."
Will do.

Have fun living living in America's Hat. The rest of us will be working on bettering the US.
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mrbarber Donating Member (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #24
34. "America's hat"?
Wow, you really are a first class asshole, aren't you?
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #34
43. Calling it like I see it.
If you think that makes me an asshole so be it.

But I'm not give someone a clap on the back for rabbiting.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #34
50. +1
:thumbsup:
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #24
38. Uh, HOW? By voting?
Strongly worded rhetoric?

A good scolding or a yawn before they sign more anti-worker, anti-rights and pro-war legislation?

Sometimes, you just gotta stop and say "rich greedy old men are never going to stop loving more and more money, nothing is EVER enough for them and they'll never stop hurting us".

An America that caters only to the rich and gives the middle/working/poor classes not ONE INCH . . . has no future. If we don't get just one single INCH soon, it's going to be rendered "not worth saving".
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #38
44. Yeah, voting.
Working, protesting, fighting, yelling. That's how it works in the world.

"Sometimes, you just gotta stop and say "rich greedy old men are never going to stop loving more and more money, nothing is EVER enough for them and they'll never stop hurting us".

You mean give up? Sorry, no taste for it. I'd rather go down fighting and cursing.

If there's one lesson I can take from my old man it's this, you don't cut and run. If you get knocked down, you get up, dust yourself off and wade back in.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #24
48. I'm quite sure that a lot of people said the same thing about American Immigrants
when they left for a better life- or in some cases, any life at all.
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #48
55. Ahh, presentism.
It's amazing how your ignorance grows with every post.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #55
64. LOL- it's called perspective
Something that- like most America über alles types consistently lack.

I will grant one thing about them, though- their attitudes will provide a lot of us who made wise decisions with some small bit of solace as we watch America inexorably decline. By the end of the decade- it's likely to be Canada's equivalent of Mexico.

And there's not a whole lot anyone can do about it.
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #64
68. Stop! You're killing me!
:rofl:

"By the end of the decade- it's likely to be Canada's equivalent of Mexico." Where did you get that? Your Junior Australian Decoder Ring? That's not what's likely to happen, that's what you want to happen. And the your prejudiced POV doesn't sync up with the way the way the world is.

Where do I begin? The difference in industrial base? The trade between the two countries? The population difference? The GNP? You think that's massively change in 10 years? Yes, Canada has a better HCS then us, right now. But you're right, that could be very different in 10 years.

"their attitudes will provide a lot of us who made wise decisions with some small bit of solace"

You are a walking stereotype. You're just trying to justify life decisions. Why is that? Oz not the utopia that you saw from Paul Hogan movies?

P.S.
Uber Alles? You're marching toward a Godwin fail dingo-man.
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Naturyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #24
53. Have fun living in Canada's ass
Because it sure isn't any fun for me.
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #53
56. And Canadians all live happy, shiny lives?
What's so bad about your life that would be instantly fixed in the land of beavers and hockey?
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change_notfinetuning Donating Member (750 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
26. There but for the spite of the gods go I. Congrats and good luck. n/t
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Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
27. Congrats and welcome!
You didn't mention anything about hockey. I hope that was just an oversight.

- B
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Lucy Goosey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
29. Welcome!
(Plugging my hometown - Come to Ottawa! I really love it here.)

Please note - a tight fitting knit hat is not a "beanie" - it's a tuque (Rhymes with spook). Please read up here: Tuque. :)
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
30. Good for you!
I hardly call your move the coward's way out...

It's not easy to uproot yourself, and your whole family, to live in another country, even one as familiar as Canada.

My husband and I talked about doing that...but. We're retired now, and have a home we've built. It would be probably impossible for us to go.

I don't think Canada wants senior citizens anyway.

But I applaud you! We've been to Vancouver, and it's a gorgeous city.

Yes, it's a very Good Day!

:woohoo:
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laundry_queen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
31. Welcome!
Your copy of "The Great White North" has been issued and should be there within 30 business days.
:)
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
32. here's my story
In April of 2009, a new Canadian law took effect that made citizens out of anyone who was born outside Canada to a Canadian citizen. Instantly, and without even knowing it, I became a Canadian citizen. All I have to do is provide a copy of my father's birth certificate and my own to be issued a certification of my own citizenship.

I tell this news here because there still may be some Americans who qualify but have never heard the news of the law.

I can live in Canada if I wish to do so. I can get a Canadian passport. I can petition for my family members to become citizens, if I wish to live in country for a period of time.

It's kind of exciting, this dual citizenship.
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Joe the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
33. Why oh why couldn't you have taken me with you?
I envy you, I hope to one day move out this country too. I don't blame you for leaving, the US is a sinking ship and there are way better countries out there than this place.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
35. Congrats to you, Fiendish!
:party:
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Zookeeper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
36. Congratulations!
I grew up across a river from Canada and I've always wanted to live there. 'Can't convince the DH, though. And I thought we were too old to be eligible, but if you're 50...maybe not!

"Peace of Mind." I know exactly what you mean.

:hi:
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frebrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
37. I'd have been there ten years ago if I could manage it!
As it is, I'm right accross the Straight and down the road in Washington. That's the closest I can get.

:(
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AspenRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
39. Not that 50 is old
(I'm in my 40s) but I was under the impression that it became more difficult to emigrate to Canada the older one got.
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Fiendish Thingy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Eligibility to immigrate is based on a points system
and age is one factor, along with education, work experience, language, any relatives in Canada, etc.
They deduct points after age 50, so we applied at just the right time.

The CIC website has a points calculator to figure out if you're eligible.

There's a few other ways to immigrate, but they can be more costly (i.e. setting up your own business)
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AspenRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Yah I knew about the points system
and it was my recollection that younger people who emigrated got higher points, which is why I asked...

Thanks and congratulations
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
42. If I had known twenty years ago what I know now,
I wouldn't be living in this country either.

I had actual opportunities to emigrate to Australia, Norway, and Japan.

I could kick myself all the way around the world for not taking them.
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qwertyMike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
45. Welcome to Canada
BC is about 10' warmer than the northerns US. And Victoria, across from Vancouver has virtually no rain and a temperate climate. e.g no snow.

Please come
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
46. Congratulations! You made a wise decision
Edited on Tue Jan-19-10 06:11 PM by depakid
For a lot of reasons in addition to those you cited (which I have thought about, too).

Bottom line is that there are structural problems laid out in the Constitution- as well as in the prevailing economic system that make the problems in the US intractable.

Peace of mind- and better prospects for the future. Nice ain't it?
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
47. Congrats on 1000!
:toast:
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
49. Welcome to Canada
We should have a DU meetup. Lots of DUers up here.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
51. We are lucky to have you.
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Naturyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
52. Big congratulations. n/t
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enigmatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
54. From one expat turned permanent resident to another; congrats!
I came up here in 2001 just before 9/11, and it's been the best move I've ever made. My Canadian wife laughs because I'm still like a crushing 13 year old towards Canada and it's people; it's not perfect, but it's much, much more in tune politically, culturally, and mindset-wise w/ what I've always been looking for in the US as a natural citizen.

I love it here and will be getting my citizenship later this year and it will be a proud day for me; I can't can't imagine leaving.

Now brush up on some The Greatest Canadian Tommy Douglas and I'll buy you a Tim Hortons double-double:D

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Fiendish Thingy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #54
65. If a double double is some kind of doughnut, you're on!
You actually played one of my songs ("A Lie For A Lie") on your radio show many moons ago!
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #65
67. OK, you're new, so we'll let that one slide...
This is a double-double



double cream, double sugar in a Tim Horton's coffee.

'Tis the lifeblood of many Canadians :hi:

Sid
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
57. I totally understand your reasoning.
Another factor in emigrating (not necessarily to Canada, but somewhere, maybe in Europe) for me would be the absolutely ridiculous cost of college. And I am not talking fancypants private school; I am talking state university. $25,000/year by the time my oldest kid gets there. What, maybe $30,000/year for the younger? So they come out of college saddled with massive debt? I don't know what's going to happen. It's hard to save for it; and even if we're mildly successful it will just be a drop in the bucket. I'd love them to have the experience of a 4-year university, but maybe community college is in the cards. Nice priorities we have here, huh? Always plenty of money for war; never enough for healthcare and schooling.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
58. I hope you studied Canada and its entire history
And are positive it would never follow the US into any war or do anything similar.

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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
59. I'll miss you
Wish there were more like you here. I save this on my hotlist;
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123993183347727843.html
As well as visajourney;
http://visajourney.com/forums/index.php?act=home

Can you tell me, did you have to give up US citizenship? I read you have to but unless you willfully do it - your US citizenship is still valid. Even though the US doesn't recognize dual citizenship. Correct?
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TorchTheWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 03:03 AM
Response to Reply #59
62. The US DOES recognize dual citizenship
My oldest brother is both a US citizen and an Irish citizen.

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Fiendish Thingy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #59
66. It's very difficult and painful to renounce your US citizenship
as the IRS expects you to file for taxes no matter where you live or what your source of income is.
We are currently Permanent Residents (like having a green card), and in three years will be eligible to become citizens; the US and Canada both recognize dual citizenship.
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Siyahamba Donating Member (890 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 01:47 AM
Response to Original message
60. I think I'll be joining you.
And before anyone calls me a traitor, I am Canadian. I have been trying to make it work in the US with my American partner, but it is frustrating to watch baby steps of progress back and forth in a country that probably won't give us equal rights for at least another ten years. Plus, my partner's been through cancer treatment, so health care reform, or the lack of it, has been another Sword of Damocles dangling over our heads.
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ET_PbD Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 02:33 AM
Response to Original message
61. Welcome!
Fiendish, your 1000th post prompts my very first after years of just reading DU. Congratulations and welcome to BC!

My family's path from Oregon to Canadian Permanent Residence was similar to yours: for all the atmospherics and tangible reasons you describe, as well as alarm that our child was about to enter a middle/high school deteriorating so badly that they gave up all foreign language instruction, perhaps because there was nothing else left to gut. On a vacation trip to Victoria we started asking ourselves "What if...?" and "Are we crazy?" Now we've been settled here for 4 years, first on work permits and then finalizing PR last summer. Our kid has a great school; community spirit and environmental responsibility are high, fast-moving currents; and the perspective on world events, as seen through something other than the narrow USA-USA-USA lens, is refreshing, to say the least.

Oh, and in pay parking lots, perfect strangers will often offer you their tickets with unused time on them. Happened to me half a dozen times last year alone. Pay it forward!

A http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_2_dollar_coin toonie's worth of advice for anyone contemplating the move North:

1) Stick with the points system. Our initial application was made through what was at the time the Provincial Nomination Program - as in bringing a business to the province. It was supposed to be a fast-track option for business owners who could diversify/boost the local economy. Instead it turned into a slow slog, and after 2+ years we arrived at the final step - an interview with a provincial representative - only to find our file in the hands of a glorified clerk who couldn't grasp that any business that didn't plan to build a 6-story building and employ 200 people on Day One (as our online venture admittedly would not) could possibly have a positive financial impact on the community. Our immigration attorney was absolutely disgusted, and we decamped to an adjacent hotel lobby and tallied up our point totals, this time with myself as lead applicant. Fresh application submitted, and another year and a half later, we were legal.

Not long after that fateful meeting, Immigration Canada upended the Provincial Nomination Program anyway. The rules can change right out from under you. Points are much more reliable and predictable.

2) Official sites and some anecdotal evidence will tell you that you don't need an immigration attorney. Trust me - it makes a big difference. They can spot and avoid pitfalls you won't even see coming and know how to shepherd your application diplomatically through the cogs of government. It's money well spent.

3) OK, I lied - one more loonie's worth. Living abroad doesn't nullify your ability to make a difference regarding the issues that affect your friends and relatives in the States. You retain the right to vote in national and your former state/local elections, and the group http://www.democratsabroad.org/group/canada Democrats Abroad is a good conduit for information and for action.

Congratulations again! We haven't regretted our choice for a moment, and I'm sure you won't either. Best of luck - "no worries," eh? - PM me if I can be of help with anything, and tea at the Empress (or Butchart Gardens, your choice) is on me when your travels bring you to Vancouver Island.

(Apologies for the clunky links. Not used to the interface here yet.)
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BobTheSubgenius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 03:28 AM
Response to Original message
63. Welcome to BC!
:) I can't see me living anywhere else.
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