Barney Frank to introduce bill to repeal Online Gambling ban

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070425/pl_nm/congress_gambling_internet_dc

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (news, bio, voting record) on Wednesday said he will introduce a bill this week to lift a ban on online gambling.


"Why anyone thinks it is any of my business why some adult wants to gamble is absolutely beyond me," Frank told a community bankers group conference.

Frank, a Massachusetts Democrat, said he will introduce the legislation on Thursday.

Internet gambling in the United States was effectively banned last October when President George W. Bush signed legislation outlawing gaming financial transactions.

The ban irked some in the European Union, which is home to online gambling companies that were forced to withdraw from the United States.

My congressman has been ticking me off lately.

:mad:

(He also yelled at a friend of mine who wanted Bush impeached.)

It's my money, and it does hurt anyone other than me if I choose to waste it gambling.

on edit: I don't agree that gambling hurts society.

that's hyperbolic nonsense.

Drunk driving is bad for society, so we should ban alcohol? Too much debt is bad for society, so we should ban credit cards? Obesity is unhealthy, so we should ban food?

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you're funny.

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What I do with my money, if it doesn't hurt you or anyone else, is your business?

are so unable to cope with their own weaknesses they require the government to save them.

That's why so many states have lotteries and legalized bingo because they are SO harmful. Uh-huh. :puke:

Just more nanny nation / sissy state bullshit that says Americans can't be trusted to run their own lives.

I'd seriously like to know why you think it is ok to ban gambling. That seems like a dangerous slippery slope. Gambling, like alcohol, is a problem for a few people, but most people can enjoy it and not abuse it.

A crime has to be committed against a child for child pornography to be made. The same can't be said for online gambling or other vice "crimes".

friend who would be very interested.

He's a productive, creative, intelligent guy who liked to play online poker and then it went "poof".

I know some people have a gambling addiction but some people are addicted to alcohol and we're not banning that.

child porn? There's no equivalence whatsoever.

It's not the government's job to tell me how I spend my entertainment money.

Lamest. Post. Ever.

I love a little on-line gambling especially the horses. It's none of your fucking business if I want to spend my hard earned money in that manner.

Derby day is coming soon!

online poker regularly. I don't want the govt. butting into my business.

:eyes:

:yourock:

DUers slay me.

how do you begin to compare the two?

the only reason for the ban in the first place was to protect the profits of the brick-and-mortar casinos. The pugs tout a "free market system" with healthy competetion, but they will turn right around and pass laws to protect their damn favorite pets.

Gambling can destroy individuals and families. It should be a pain in the neck to make a trip out to Lost Wages or AC (or an Indian casino) in order to shoot oneself in the foot by gambling. Online gambling makes it all-too-easy to gamble.

food can kill someone. Should we outlaw supermarkets?

As human beings, we require food, not gambling, to survive.

but both are things most people enjoy in moderation.

Let's change the analogy to alcohol. Should it be banned because it harms some people? How about Twinkies? We don't need them to survive - should they be illegal?

Pepper has absolutely no nutritional content and it is not digested by the body.. And some people use way to much of it to ruin good food.. So by the 'logic' ive seen in this thread, should it be illegal too?



Oh im sure when the first person has an allergic reaction to it, it will be banned on planes..

Gambling and other pass time hobbies just make people broke :shrug:

You nanny-state twit.

:sarcasm:

Did your parents teach you any manners?

Flamethrowers are hot!!!

Ya know, at some point the idea of personal responsibility needs to be reintroduced into the American Psyche before we end up legislating our way into padded rooms wearing diapers so we dont do anything that could possibly harm ourselves.

Why should scams be illegal? What about personal responsibility?

I've played, I've won, I've gotten paid.

Won a trip the World Series of Poker last year. Had a great time. Where's the scam?

who think they can make easy money that way? Presumably those places make a profit. Where does that come from? It comes from the suckers, from the losers. From the very people that progressives are always trying to help. We get all mad when a Credit Card company charges somebody a late fee, or an 8.5% interest rate, why should we not be concerned about a fleecing operation, just because we, ourselves, are not one of the sheep? Who paid for your trip? Did you pay for it with your own losses, or did the CORPORATION pay for it out of their own generosity? No, it came from somebody who was scammed.

ill end up getting tombstoned..

Is a personal attack the only possible reply? It's not like other DUers are not willing and able to attack me.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/6

Try these favorite logical arguments (by which I mean expressions of contempt)

:eyes: :rofl:

Since you such an unbelievable fuckwit on this specific topic.

Oh but I just did!

:eyes: :rofl:




Love ya hfojvt! :yourock:

doesn't mean you've been scammed. What an idiotic notion.

A scam is defined as a trick or a swindle. Swindle is defined as "cheating a person out of money and possessions". Well I say that when a person gives up some money without getting anything in return, then they have been swindled, even if they WILLINGLY trade their cow for some magic beans. It's a negative sum game for the players.

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Two pair - 13 choose 2 times two times 4 choose 2 times 44 (edit, whoops 44 not 48) divided by total number of poker hands 52 choose 5

There is no ignorance involved, just a different value system. I don't play games for money. Yes, if you play bridge for money, that too would be a swindle, even if everyone is playing fair, and further, I have played cards where no money was involved and still people either didn't play fair or were suspected of not playing fair. However, it only becomes a scam when it is done on a large scale.

somebody beats somebody else at a game, it's a scam?

What an idiotic assertion.

anything any more than name calling does. Plus, they lack punch without either the pointing monkey or :eyes: and/or :rofl:

As in:

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: What an idiotic assertion. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Or, I might say 'what an assertive idiot'.

I never said that beating somebody at a game was a scam. That's just a game. However, fleecing them out of money by beating them at a game. Yes, that is a scam, even when the sheep goes willingly to slaughter.

but you keep repeating the same idiotic assertions without explaining them.

How is it a "scam" or "cheating" to win money at an honest game wherein all players choose to wager?

I used to bowl in a league - we'd all pay in some money for prize for the best teams at the end of the season. Was that a scam?


My grandmother used to play gin rummy for a penny a point - was that a scam?

I even tried to be funny by quoting Michael Jackson 'You've been hit by, a smooth criminal', although I was sirius about concern for people who have been ripped off. I call it a rip off whenever somebody pays money and gets nothing in return.

Prize money is not the same to me, because the initial amounts are fixed. The essence of gaming is that a loser gets in a hole, and keeps throwing good money after bad as the only way to get out of the hole. Penny-ante bets are not in the same league either, any more than a light slap is the same as shooting with a bazooka. A light slap is similar to a hard punch, but not sirius enough to warrant the label of 'assault'.

The big business aspect of it and the amounts involved are what warrant the label 'scam' in my eyes. The casinos are making big money, and if somebody is making $1,000 a month, then somebody else is losing $1,000 a month, and to my empathy, that hurts.

http://www.casinowatch.org/suicides/suicides.html

or ANY poker, for that matter, the House isn't a player, and isn't winning the money. The players pay a small, fixed fee for the use of the House's services.

If I choose to play with my money, and somebody else chooses to play with their money, then I just don't see how it's a scam. The more skillful player will, over time, win money from the less skillful players.

Also, many people play poker tournaments, which have a set entry-fee.

But even if somebody wants to spend their rent money playing poker, what business is it of the government's?

It seems to me that, like abortion, if you're opposed to it, don't do it. But I don't see how you have the right to force your views on others.

How far can that go? If you are opposed to racism, then don't tell racist jokes, but don't try to force your views on others. Why shouldn't I stand up for the victims of both racism and gambling, even if one group is a set of willing victims? If people wanna spend their rent money on meth, what business is it of the government? If there is a victim, then the laissez-faire (let it be, or myob) argument does not sway me. Which is why it does not work on anti-abortionists because they see the babies as victims.

there is no "scam" in online poker, in fact, because of the low overhead, there were so many bonuses being offered that you had an entire category of people called "bonus whores" who weren't even top players but who could pick up several hundred to a couple thousand dollars a month playing online

i was one of them and i certainly don't consider myself any jennifer harman or even a chris moneymaker!

most people who gamble do it for entertainment, but those who want to learn how to win can and do win

it ain't rocket science when we're talking about 50cent/$1 hold 'em games

Did the online casino have a money tree? Or was it the same money tree that PT Barnum used?

Most people gamble for entertainment? I would like to see a survey. I think most people do it in the hopes of getting some 'easy money'. Money that they don't actually have to work or produce anything for. Instead they can essentially steal it from somebody who isn't as smart or knowledgeable or isn't as lucky.

who choose to play poker and lose.

So what?

a smooth criminal.

So what? I'm putting myself in their corner, even if they don't appreciate it.

if I hit my flush?

What an idiotic assertion.

please, for most people esp. many older people or disabled people gambling is something they can do now that they can't do sport

people have different levels of involvement, the majority of people just want to have some mindless fun with a rare chance of winning -- this is why the most popular games are slot and lottery

poker is a specialty and it attracts people who want to use their heads a little bit to figure things out and maybe increase their odds of winning -- some will try to reinvent the wheel, some will play as their daddy taught them, some will actually engage in serious study and computer simulation, and at the low levels folks win or not pretty much over the long run in accord w. how much time they want to invest -- at the high levels it is probably so that gift or talent is important -- but this is just as true for golf or basketball

hard to see how any of this is a sin

this obtuse with all other things you know little or nothing about?

I can tell you it isn't a scam, because I've been playing poker online for five years now, and make a fair amount of money at it. I've never felt like I've been scammed.

In cash games, people play against each other with their own money drawn from each individual account that is set up with the poker site. If I win money, it comes from the people I play against. Just like a home game.

If I'm in a tournament, each person who enters a tournament pays a set fee from their account. The fees are pooled, and payouts come from the pool.

What is so hard to understand about that?

Really? Whoda thunk it? :sarcasm:

Maybe because it is the losers who are being scammed. They are the 'suckers' I was referring to in regard to "PT Barnum's money tree". PT Barnum, you know, the guy who said "there's a sucker born every minute". These people, who got suckered into a hole they felt they could not escape:
http://www.casinowatch.org/suicides/suicides.html
and others whose response to their losses have been less dramatic. Do they feel like they have been scammed? I think they should.

to play the game.

Perhaps you can share some of your vast knowledge, oh enlightened one.

Prove that I do not know what I am talking about, because any blowhard can sit back on the internet and call names and make claims. I just did, but sometimes ya gotta fight fire with fire.

already proven that you don't know what you're talking about, by your silly assertions that online poker is a scam.

It proves you don't know the first thing about it.

but so far nobody is sharing their enlightenment. Calling names is so much more satisfying. The proverb says, however, 'the man who hits first, is the one who has run out of ideas'.

Calling an assertion silly does not make it so. Just the facts, ma'am.

Calling something a scam does not make it so either, but I explained why I think it is. It promises something for nothing and often delivers nothing for something.

how is it a scam?

I choose to play, somebody else chooses to play. One of us wins. How is that a scam?

You're assertions ARE idiotic. It's not name-calling. It's truth-telling.

idiotic is a value judgement.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/35

The scam comes because both of you thought you could win. One was wrong, and got euchred out of some presumably hard-earned money, and the house, which created the environment, always wins. Pretty good scam for them. No risk. But then a society which becomes more filled with greedy people eager for wealth without work loses the time, energy, intelligence and effort that could have gone into productive work. Snake eyes!! The line loses.

I play with the full knowledge that I can lose. I HOPE I can win, and I use my knowledge, experience and skills to try to do so.

It's not a scam. What an idiotic assertion.

Or you wouldn't make such an uninformed remark.

Or is it all done with monopoly money?

I believe that many people are lured in by the siren song, the false hope or optimism that says 'you can make easy money doing this'. Only it turns out that lots of people do not. Instead they provide easy money for somebody else. I am pretty sure that the amount of money lost by the players is greater than the amount of money won by the players. The losers are getting nothing of value for the money they give out. I call that a scam.

Otherwise, it is a highly nuanced game of skill.

If there are state lotteries and riverboat casinos, then why should online gambling be banned? Silly.

Good for Congressman Frank. He's absolutely right.

or were they taxfree cause they were based out of the country?



The only reason I can see the government banning it is because they cant get their grubby little paws on their cut...

However, I could be wrong.... I admit my ignorance unlike a few people up thread..

like all other gambling, taxes aren't taken out. It is the responsibility of the winner to declare his earnings. That is true for horse racing, casinos, etc.

I was under the assumption that on big winnings <lottery, casino> they automatically deducted uncle sams share.. Or at least forwarded your info to the IRS..


thank you for edumakating me.. :)

big casino wins ARE reported to the IRS (you have to sign a form) but taxes aren't deducted.

Online casinos do not report big wins, as they're not based in the US.

Not because of morality

they got involved to protect brick and mortar casinos and racetracks, who didn't like the competition.

regulate it, the online gaming industry balked, and that's why it was banned.

If we are going to start banning vices, I can think of several I would ban first.

which is what the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act was all about. This has been a giant pain in the ass for the banks, which have essentially been told to function as privatized enforcement agencies on behalf of the government. Interesting that this is coming out of the Financial Services Committee; Frank has probably heard an earful from the business community.

some portion of the tens of millions of internet poker players.

safeguards in place. I've never gambled online and I didn't even know it had been banned.

Christ.

It's dihonest, anti-intellectual, and base.

I mean, how does the DMV keep kids from driving their parent's cars?

they stop kids from breaking into the liquor cabinet: they say it's not the government's job.

If you can't keep your credit card away from your kid, then you shouldn't have a) kids b) credit cards.

you put money into your account, and it stays there until you cash out or lose it. But you must log in with a username and password.

Keep your kids away from the computer if you don't trust them.

If the kid is willing to swipe the parents CC or check to gamble online, then those parents have way more problems then just the kid getting on the internet to play blackjack.

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but most of the responses you received were nonsensical and snide.

Frankly I think some of the pro-gambling opinions I've seen here are pretty reasonable. I'm not sure why I'm getting jumped over for asking how it works.

If an account is already established then it requires a password to log into. Like DU for example...

For you to make an account, you need to provide either a credit card or your bank info <like if you were paying a bill online via your checking account.. routing #, account #, check #>

Where I come from, it's a parent's responsibility to oversee their child's behavior. The reason why my kids don't spend every afternoon on the internets unattended. :hi:

:D

You have to jump through numerous hoops to be able to start a real money account. It's a lot more involved than just reading a credit card number off, over the phone to someone.

,

You do NOT want to play the "only game in town."

Not to mention any offering at all is better than state-run lotto.

Thank you Rep. Frank.

I wonder if he'll have the votes to get it passed.

I don't gamble (I don't have the money to blow), but it's none of my damn business if my neighbor likes to play poker or whatever. He's not compelling anybody else to do anything, and he's not harming anybody else, so WTF would it be any of my business?