another sad case of bullying-"9 year-old hangs self at school"

http://kdka.com/national/Boy.Hanged.Self.2.1442854.html
-snip
Many now struggle to understand exactly how this happened. Friends and those who knew the boy said that he was often teased. "He was just bullied too much," Blackwell said. "Some of the things that people would say were harsh."

The same "zero tolerance" that expels kids for bringing aspirin to school would be better applied to anti-bullying policy.

It certainly wasn't on the MSM.

Everyone was teased. Bullying is an entirely different animal. It should be criminal, especially the bullying that happens on the net. Little girls can be brutal.

Punish those who do the bullying? Fine - but it's still going to happen. If not in school, then after, or on the weekends.

Kids will bully other kids - it is going to happen, and it is nearly impossible to prevent, IMHO.

:eyes:

What you're trying to "say without saying" is that bullying is no big deal and if some wimpy kids kill themselves, well, what can we do?

It's easy for a teacher to point at a gun or a pill and say "Zero Tolerance! You're outta here!"

Not as easy to spot the rumor-mongering, or the accidental shoulder slam or elbow-to-nose shot, or knocked-over lunch tray, or a million other ways that bullies can torment their prey.

What sort of things can work?

:hi:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4243113

And can't really catch the "accidental" bump in the hall, spilt lunch trays. Cameras can't be everywhere, probably not bathrooms, locker-rooms, shower-rooms. And there are always blind spots, which the kids will find.

But it could be a start.

In my opinion, this could be the key. But the problem is that in this economy, parents are being forced to work more to get by (those that even have jobs) and in turn they get to spend very little time with their kids.

Parents should start at a young age teaching their kids about respecting others and self-respect. Talk to them to find out what's going on, what's bothering them, etc. Step in and take an active role when bullying is reported. Go to the school and the teacher and give them a heads up. Most times, the teacher will be glad to keep an eye on things and step in where necessary (even if teachers are overwhelmed as it is, most of the good ones don't want bullying happening on their watch). Some schools have even started anti-bullying programs and enacted "zero-tolerance" rules regarding bullying. But it has to start early and carried on throughout a students career to be effective.

or the product of parents who were or are bullies themselves.

It's a good idea for parents to teach respect for self and others. But if the parents don't have such respect, they'll teach the survival and social skills that they possess. Good and bad. Just a guess here.

The problem that I see is that in some cases, the bullies are the ones whose parents are affluent, other people are beneath them and feel that they are above reproach. This rubs off on their kids very early. I remember one guy I went to school with from K-12 was the worst bully around the school. He would constantly berate, belittle, and treat other kids with no regard to their feelings or their worth. Parents would complain, but nothing would be done about it other than a simple talk like "Joe feels like you are bullying him - is that true?" which only made it worse. The teachers and staff didn't want to offend the bully because his dad was a powerful figure in the community with more money than 99% of the rest of the student population combined.

Still, there are other cases where the bullies might just be "mean" - and that could also go back to parents and their life experiences.

It's a complex issue, much more than anyone can imagine when first looked upon.

I am saying that it is nearly impossible to identify and prevent bullying.
Schools can't just "stop the bullying," as you suggested.
And those who are bullied aren't going to go to a teacher or administrator, in fear of getting bullied even more severely.
It takes much more than just putting a rule in the student handbook that says "bullies will be expelled."

As it is, it's only an analogy to show the flaw of an argument.

another flawed argument. Guns and drugs are not even similar to harassment. Guns are concrete, we can agree what they are, we can attempt to keep them out of schools. Drugs are concrete, we can agree what they are, we can attempt to keep them out of schools. Harassment or bullying is sometimes just words, ideas, innuendo, sometimes we can't even tell where the harassment is coming from in the given words because its all in the context. How do we police that? You can't pat a kid down or pass them through a "bully" detector to try and get at what they might say during the day. So, since we can't control what a kid might say, we should allow guns and drugs. So much for your analogy I think.

It requires that bullying not be tolerated, and that means imposing serious sanctions.

Schools tend to "surrender" the social dynamic of schools, when strangely it is very important to the education process. Breaking up "cliques" or other social structures is fairly easy to some extent. Shifting schedules, limiting involvement in certain clubs, sports, and special activities is something schools can do, short of flat out expelling students. Something as simple as placing student lockers further apart can have influence on social dynamics. I was bullied by the quarterback in one class. All it took was moving him away from his friends (and me actually) in the classroom and it stopped. Putting troublesome students in classes without their friends can help prevent much of this stuff. This is more true of the "followers" than the "instigators". The instigators tend to be the toughest problem, but they often need the support of others and depriving them of that support can at least slow them down, and also "relieve" the supporters of getting involved in the troubles in the first place.

The problem is less that there is "nothing" that can be done but that many within the system, and parents as well, see bullying as something that "must be endured" or is a "lesson for the future". It's the "tough love" attitude. The problem is that once the bullying in effect becomes "public knowledge" to the authority figures, not taking action to intervene becomes de facto "condoning" of the behavior, to both the perpetrator and the victim.

That it's "just something that happens" instead of working with their kids and with the schools to come up with solutions to end it. Some of the solutions, just as you outlined, can be simple and very effective.

The problem that I see is that in some cases, the bullies are the ones whose parents are affluent, other people are beneath them and feel that they are above reproach. This rubs off on their kids very early. I remember one guy I went to school with from K-12 was the worst bully around the school. He would constantly berate, belittle, and treat other kids with no regard to their feelings or their worth. Parents would complain, but nothing would be done about it other than a simple talk like "Joe feels like you are bullying him - is that true?" which only made it worse. The teachers and staff didn't want to offend the bully because his dad was a powerful figure in the community with more money than 99% of the rest of the student population combined.

Unfortunately these kids are going have to learn to deal with this behavior. "Bullies" need to be taught to respect others, easier said than done, however. Bullying isn't limited to childhood; bullying goes on clear through adulthood into the workplace, especially if you are a teacher working in the public schools.

Almost everybody has been bullied in school at one time or another, and many people have been the bullies. There's not a hell of a lot that can be done about it, especially when "bullying" is very hard to define in the first place.

However, this emphasis on "bullying" has sure made the lawyers happy.

... as I found some teachers just as guilty of "bullying" as students. Only differences were that some teachers were skilled at psychological bullying and had the power to really screw you over if you protested. And no, I'm not tossing all teachers into that pot; I have two siblings who became teachers. But back in my day if you were at all "different" in any way they could make your life a living hell, and corporal punishment, even severe, was still permitted as well. So if you wonder why some teachers don't stop bullying, it's because they either sympathize with the bullies or were once bullies themselves.

Some teachers and some administrators do bully students. That shouldn't be tolerated, either.

That it builds character and teaches kids to stand up for themselves.

Idiotic as all hell, IMO.

And maybe ask those same adults if the reason they say that is because they bully other kids.

who can make others laugh by making fun of someone else.

And yes, I'm sure many of those who think it's a good thing were or are bullies.

I agree with you.

And no where is the problem greater than on the football teams, where bullying is standard procedure on many squads and coaches.

to stop bullying without 100% parental and community support. Even if it stops at school, there is going to be bullying at the park, in the neighborhood, in the home! We need to teach our children to always be kind to one another.

These online gang attacks quality as "terroristic threats," and can result in successful criminal prosecutions. That kind of anti social behavior should be restricted, and myspace should do its part in helping stop bullying. If they deleted any account that engaged in bullying, they'd help the problem.

If the kid being bullied knows he could be expelled for fighting if he actually does something about the bullying, they'll be much less likely to even try- particularly if it's a good student with a lot to lose by getting expelled.

Many school administrators are cowards (except with "uppity" students and teachers, they they get vicious), especially when the people whining at them vote for the school board that hires you.

And they do their best to try and make the parents of the bullied kid feel like they're out of line, and should just shut up about it. May not be the same everywhere, but I went to school at a place where a kid said he would slit this girl's throat, and they tried to sweep it under the rug and pretend it never happened. They also said that making a hit-list including a teacher on it was normal teenage behavior. It was pretty unreal.

that tunnel vision of youth that things will never get better is so hard to break through - just terrible

Susie has dance classes on Monday, violin on Tuesday, gymnastics on Wednesday and Friday and softball games on Saturday. And Jimmy has Pop Warner football and Little League baseball and he needs to do well so he can get a college scholarship (Jimmy is only 7) When do Susie and Jimmy get a chance to just be kids and have fun? Kids are so stressed out at a younger age. Add in being bullied and the child feels there is no answer.

The PTB don't want kids that have time to daydream, the kids would think up dangerous ideas and would not be good corporate drones.

that keeping kids busy keeps parents from having to interact with said kids! Damn, this makes me so mad!

:cry:

Schools obviously don't give a shit.

http://www.bullypolice.org/

:mad:

Bullying is bullying. Do you think there's a valid reason to tease a child to the point where he hangs himself?

he was perceived as gay (based upon what his peers say), then I believe that needs to be discussed openly, if for no other reason than readers know to take such bullying seriously.

I know when I was a child and I told older people about such teasing, I was told to 'toughen up', 'make an effort', 'don't let it get to you'.

Thankfully, I didn't go through with killing myself, though I would be lying if I didn't say that the thought did cross my mind in darker moments.

Likewise if he was taunted due to his stuttering or because he was bow-legged or whatever it was.

Maybe he was fat, or too smart, or too quiet. It doesn't really matter. Any noticeable difference is enough to doom a child to a decade of persecution. The reason this problem is hard to beat is that is is simply human nature to be cruel to people who are different, and children aren't yet civilized enough to restrain themselves. Not that all adults are.

As we talk about this here, I remember a guy from my own junior high who was bullied because, of all things, his family refused to buy a television. Yes, a classmate was bullied because he was 'weird'. Kids can be so cruel.

However, I don't think childhood bullying (at the grade school level) should be treated as a hate crime; that is to say, it shouldn't need to go any further than the school and or parents punishing the bully. I don't think discussing the issue in a larger forum should be necessary. Like the poster above me says, children bully anyone who is different, and at that age, they don't really make much distinction. It only becomes more than bullying when they start to reach the middle school/high school range, and they begin to bully for specific reasons.

:hi:

For a 9 yr. old to do this is just unfathomable.

but sad nevertheless.

to bullying http://stephenville-online.com/uncategorized/cleburn-hs-teen-commits-suicide-bullying-said-to-contribue-to-death/">over here in Cleburne a few months ago.

I was bullied once upon a time back in the early '70s because of my parents' apparently sad taste in child clothing fashion. I decided attacking bullies like a badger, losing proposition or not, was better than feeling sorry for myself. Unfortunately we're all different and some children deal with it by taking their own lives. What is especially startling to me in this instance is that a 9 year old child would consider suicide as an option and then follow through with it.

May little Montana and young Hunter rest in peace.

I would think a 9 year old can barely grasp the concept of suicide and death in the first place. To see that happen to anyone, but especially a little boy, is just heart-wrenching.

:cry:

Why don't schools do more about this?