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A Corporation is not a person. It is not alive.

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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 04:53 PM
Original message
A Corporation is not a person. It is not alive.
Discuss.

:P
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
1. It is a group of living individual people with a single goal. Like a union or party.
Aw shit.

:hide:
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. No, it's not.
It's a legal entity that exists only on paper.

:P
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RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. So is a university, a state, a country.
I guess none of those things "have any damn rights" either.
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Ah, they may well have rights.
Just not the right to vote.
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RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. How? They don't breath. They exist on paper. In case you didn't know
corporations can't vote either. They have not been made into "persons." I honestly don't know which I laugh at more the idiots screaming about "corporate personhood," or the idiots screaming about "government death panels."
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mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #17
29. "Corporate personhood" is a legal reality...death panels are fantasy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood
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RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. No corporation has ever been named a person. Just as much of a fantasy.
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mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. The case law speaks for itself.
Edited on Thu Jan-28-10 09:08 PM by mix
Your position is not tenable. This travesty, applying the 14th amendment to corporations, has existed in American jurisprudence since the late 19th century.

An 1886 U.S. Supreme Court decision, Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Company, 118 U.S. 394, 6 S. Ct. 1132, 30 L. Ed. 118, is often cited for the principle that the term person as used in the equal protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment applies to corporations as well as to natural persons.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Santa+Clara+County+v.+Southern+Pacific+Railroad+Company

(text of court's ruling)
http://www.ratical.org/corporations/SCvSPR1886.html
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RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #32
41. So you feel corporations and other entities should be subject to laws but have no right of equal
protection under those laws? Are you serious? You think the IRS should be able to tell Joe Blow Plumbing, INC that they owe $200,000 more in taxes and Joe Blow Plumbing, INC should have no recourse to challenge that?

Unbelievable
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mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. There should be a legal distinction between corporations and people.
Edited on Thu Jan-28-10 10:10 PM by mix
Otherwise, you get rulings like Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission which apply rights intended for people to corporations. Yes, equal protection is important for corporations, but the application of the 14th amendment to corporate law has set a horrible precedent and allowed corporations to claim more and more legal and constitutional grounds at the expense of those for whom the law was originally written, i.e individual citizens.

But this really is not the issue we are debating, despite your diversion.

Your claim that corporations have never been legally defined as persons is still dead wrong.
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RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. Name one corporation that has been named a human being, I really want to fucking hear this

Start naming them.
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mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. Read the case law...starting with Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad.
Edited on Thu Jan-28-10 10:17 PM by mix
The issue is not defining corporations as "human beings," but giving them the same rights as individual citizens, i.e. personhood.
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RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. I have read the case law. I do hope you have a pleasant evening.
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mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. No, you haven't. nt
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RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. Yes, I have. I do not lie. Your calling me a liar doesn't make it true.
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 05:01 PM
Original message
Union PAC = a single mom donating $20 and
a worker chipping in $52, to be lumped with others so it will get heard, not utterly ignored. To me, comparing union PACs with corporate influence is comparing apple and oranges.

But the media never points that out.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
14. And shareholders buy stock.
:shrug:
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RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Only the wealthy.
which of course means anyone who has 1 cent more in net assets then the particular poster who posts it.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Nonsense.
Millions of middle class people have 401ks.

And even the poor can buy some shares, if they're so interested.
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RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. As I said. "which of course means anyone who has 1 cent more in net assets then the particular post"

I guess no reason to read that.
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Johonny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
35. do corporations, unions or partys have a single goal?
Not the ones I belong too.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
2. listen to pat leahy's speech on the Senate floor today.
he talks about corporate personhood.
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Is there a Youtube link?
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kpominville Donating Member (323 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 05:00 PM
Original message
Here is the youtube link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsT_9nTcuvw
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
26. Thank you!
I'm so glad to see this. I predict the decision will be effectively neutered somehow. People with common sense won't let it stand.

In my opinion, this gives some people more access to the election process than others.
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
5. Can't get cancer so shouldn't influence HCR debate as a person
ad infinitum


That insanity has brought us to this. Good night America I love you.:patriot:
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kimmerspixelated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
7. Bingo for Cal. Peg!!!
You nailed it, honey!
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I thank you!
*bows*
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
10. It is created by law soley.
It shouldn't be afforded all the rights that we the PEOPLE have under the Constitution.
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Absolutely.
This is how I see it.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. To subvert the transparency of democracy, to limit "democratic interference."
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
11. Can we have an abortion? Please?
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
15. do you know about movetoamend.org?
It's David Cobb's organization dedicated to repealing corporate personhood through constitutional amendment. http://www.movetoamend.org/
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OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
16. And free speech does not only apply to "live beings/people".
the first ammendment does not specify that it's protected rights are established only for persons.
What's your point?
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. It was just a thought I had.
And I wanted to see what all of you had to say about it.

That's all.
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mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #16
28. What other entities are included then?
Edited on Thu Jan-28-10 06:29 PM by mix
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Speech is a human act.
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Blue Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
20. Even if a Supreme Court judge tells you so.
Trust your own brain on this one.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
23. Double plus bad, citizen. Report to the reeducation joycamp.
Your thoughtcrime is a threat. I bellyfeel you have malserved the compassionate lords of Oceania.
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. My dear Bucky!
:scared:




















:rofl:

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RedCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
25. Even Commander Data could not rise to this level...
And he was much wiser than the SC-5!
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
27. In my opinion, this gives some people more access to the election process than others.
It corporations are people, then it gives those people more election power than other people.

Corporations are obviously not people. People are flesh and blood. But attorneys are good at twisting things. I suppose you could say justice is blind. They still think an elephant is a wall.
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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
30. K&R
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gristy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
33. Corporate Personhood is a legal term. Not a literal term.
It doesn't need to be alive.
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Well, damn!
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mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. Technically true, yet constitutionally dubious. nt
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
36. Very well said, CaliforniaPeggy.
Not only can corporations be bought and sold, even to shareholders overseas, they can change names, especially after they are indicted.
Like when Blackwater became Xe.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
38. So a sapient AI wouldn't be a person?
BIOCENTIST!!! :P
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
39. Money talks
Discuss :D
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. THAT'S for sure!
And I guess it did in this case, huh?

:rofl:
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Indeed it has
moved itself neatly under the umbrella of free speech protection provided by our Constitution's First Amendment. I wonder what the authors would have to say about that?
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. I think they would be aghast.
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democratus Donating Member (20 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
50. It's alive
sucking our blood every minute of the day and shoves it's face in our every moment.
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Welcome to DU!
And I hope you're wrong about this! But I'm afraid you may be right...

:scared:

:hi:
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. Hello.
Welcome to DU! :hi:
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