What's so bad about Toyota?

I've read here about the recall and what seems to be a major software problem, and that perhaps they've covered up the worst of their screw-up (have I got all that right?).

But I'm wondering overall, why the vitriol towards this particular company. I'll admit right off the bat I know NOTHING about car manufacturing or the corporate culture of car manufacturers...this post is all about learning more about what I've seen lots of folks here complaining about.

I had an interesting conversation today with a guy, now an investment banker (I'll probably start another topic on his comments on THAT front lol) who used to be an automotive analyst. He seems pretty "pro-Toyota" to say the least. He claimed that the U.S. government is trying to frame, or at least demonize, Toyota. Claimed that he has toured manufacturing plants in America and saw firsthand that the Toyota plants were clean, well-maintained and highly automated while the Ford and GM plants were filthy, outmoded and mostly old-fashioned assembly line style with people instead of robots. Again, I have no opinion on the matter and NO firsthand experience so I'd love some input from folks who've been there and seen this stuff firsthand.

He further went on to claim that whatever problems Toyota may have must CERTAINLY exist in the American car manufacturers' products as well since Toyota is "forced" to use American parts manufacturers, and the proof that it's not Toyota's fault is in the fact that none of these defects have shown up in Japanese factories which produce Toyota cars, only in Toyota cars manufactured in America and Europe.

This is just a repetition of what the guy said to me tonight to the best of my recollection, I honestly have no opinion or loyalty one way or the other (I live in Tokyo now, so I don't own a car presently due to a number of factors, back when I lived in America I never owned a Japanese car, only American, so I have no first hand experience on the relative merits of the Toyota brand or anything like that).

Thoughts? Comments? I'll see the guy again soon, so it'd be very interesting to re-enter the conversation with a few facts that I didn't have the first time in any case.

Thanks in advance!

Never had a pedal stick, never had a problem. Toyota pick up has 170 thousand miles on it and runs like a champ still. Little Yaris has 45k on it and runs like a champ. When serviced, Toyota dealership calls me within 24 hours to make sure was serviced properly and all is well.

All our cars have been Toyotas. Hubby's first car was a 73 Corolla. That's his hobby - he still has it - a beauty of a car. He rarely drives it - drives the Camry.
I've owned a Corolla, a Tercel and adore my now five year old Corolla.

The good news - ours come straight from Japan. For the record every second car on the roads in Jamaica is a Toyota. :D

correct subject

broadly speaking are "just incase" and not because of significant occurence. There have been no UK incidents as far as I'm aware - I checked specifically the week before last.

BTW - the UK's Prius's come from the Japanese factory.

will be interesting to see what comes out of it..

A 1985 Celica with 300,000 miles and still runs strong. Of course it looks like crap due to the poor quality of Japanese steel body panels. Almost every other part of it though, is of superior materials and workmanship. All my rubber seals rotted out about ten years ago and I had to do an engine overhaul. When I tore it down, I was amazed at the lack of engine wear at 200,000 mi. I could have sworn it was a brand new engine. Absolutely no cylinder ridge to fool with and the bearings looked like new.
I have seen inside American Toyotas and the story's not the same. The wear in that case is more in line with a Chevy or Ford. IMO American Toyotas are not of the same quality as foreign made models. The body integrity is better on the domestics but I'm sure they won't run as long as the Japanese because they are being built along the line of American "planned obsolescence". Oddly the domestic models are being sold at a much greater price than a comparable Chevy or Ford.
The old imports were so good that they made a reputation for Toyota as being so much better, but the newer domestics disappoint.
I think people get angry when they pay more for a product because of it's reputation and then have the same kinds of problems (recalls) with the product as they may have anticipated with the cheaper product.

and a lot of that is offroad, if i get another two years out of it ill be happy, and the wife likes it so much that she wants one as a runabout so ill probuably have to go shiopping soon to the dealer.

one of those odd looking buggers ? If possible please post a pic for me. They're not sold in Europe.

an '85 Supra, first one with Lotus supension , which did 150,000 miles of just simple routine servicing and no other issues whatsoever. That was replaced with a '90 Supra in which I did another 150,000 miles. Only probelem which occured was head gasket and a single problem with the auto box fluid cooler. Then I got a 3 door Rav which I only disposed of cos I needed more room and got myself a Grand Cherokee - the first of a series of Jeeps. I now lol about in a Wrangler Unlimited 5 door - DIESEL :)

Yup - all of the Toyotas were from Japan.

Unfortunately just a GT. Same except the independent rear end and rear discs. Same 22RE fuel injected. They both get up and go but the Supra has a much higher resale value and a cool fastback. Mine is parked right now because I need to replace the clutch. I didn't wear the original out but the rear main seal has started leaking oil all over it. The only seal I didn't replace because I didn't pull the motor or trans out of the car.
It's okay though because a litter of kittens has moved into the trunk. The body metal is so bad at the inner fenders that they can climb right in from underneath. They need a home this winter and I'm sure as hell not going to pull the trany in this weather.
So, problems with rubber and sheet metal, that's about it. I still have original engine, trans, suspension.

and American murderers to boot. Piss on them.

Drivers report well under 20 mpg combined fuel economy.

close to my house, so mpg is not the most important thing when you consider what vehicle you need and you dont live in a nice suburb...

same as pickup trucks, but then again beauty is in the eye of the beholder....

Yes - it's the one I imagined. I took a photo of a yellow one in a carpark when I was in OH in November. Got chatting with the owner but he wasn't too pleased with it. Not mechanical problems - upholstery was wearing in places etc. His was only a two wheel drive much to my surprise - seemed to be a sheep in wolf's clothing although it was odd enough looking to appeal to me....lol.

+ + =

:thumbsup:

Having heard that they've immediately stopped selling 8 models on my local news, I wonder if the problem is that serious, or if it's an abundance of caution.

I have not read of a significant number of problems with accelerators, deaths, injuries, but maybe they're out there.

The purported drop in consumer confidence of their product seems unjustified.

On my third Toyota, a Prius with 70,000 miles, I have no reason not to buy another.

Not Toyota's choice.

Now it appears their quality wasn't all that it was hyped up to be.

I am sure part of the negativism is because Toyota is not an American company, but most of it is the fact that the deceived the American public and may still be deceiving them.

Toyota was arrogant in their rise and remains arrogant even in this time of trouble. When a prominent software developer contacts you to tell you he may know what the problem is and you don't even take his calls, there is something wrong.


Maybe The Toyota Way and their LEAN culture bit them in the ass.

than GM,Ford, or Chrysler. Hands down. Not so true today.

the next time I'm in the market. I don't buy vehicles very often. As I reported down thread:

When I buy a new vehicle, I want something that will take me at least 250K on a normal maintenance routine without breakdowns, costly repairs, engine rebuilds, etc.. 300K would be better.

My Toyotas have done exactly that, and I expect my current '04 to do the same.

If I can ever afford to buy another new vehicle, I'll be looking for models that can at least equal that record.

I mean I've only being doing it as a practitioner and instructor for 10+ years and I keep telling people that passing on bad quality is the ultimate Lean sin but seemingly you know more....

Allowing a line operator to make a design change without proper engineering being done.

Just because an operator called for a Kaizen event, a change must be implemented or management doesn't think LEAN is working. That may not be how it is intended to work, but I have seen that happen many times.

Kaizen events are one tool only, and if they call for engineering changes as a potential improvement then it is not Lean's fault if those changes are not investigated appropriately. Typically Lean addresses the process not the design anyway, and would only resort to design changes to enable otherwise impossible poka-yoke (like adding or changing a fixture reference point) or remove waste inherent in the design, such as a hidden part that is not subject to surface degradation requiring painting. Nothing at all in Lean says the designs should be changed without review.

They had low repair costs because their maintainence schedules were so rigorus that they included items listed as repairs on many other brands - and if an owner did not follow that schedule, any repair incurred did'nt count, because the car had'nt been maintained.
Toyota pickups have been rust buckets since the original Hilux in the '70's. Toyota was able to shift some blame to the US made truckbeds (the trucks were imported unfinished, to save duties). I don't know what went wrong with the frames in detail - I suspect that Detroit's, and Northern Europe's, engineers are better attuned to the problems of salted roads than the Japanese. And Toyota was willing to put a LOT of cash into buying back trucks with frame failure, and scrapping them. I can tell you that every 4th 'Yota in northern New England sports some kind of homemade bed.
And hubris played a part, and has for a long time. Toyota has trouble brewing with some of their automatic transmissions - they are trying to keep it under wraps, so much so that the dealers do not repair transmissions - they are swapped out, and sent back to Toyota - because that keeps the mechanics from finding out what the problem is.

The problem is Toyota started looking for market share and expansion. They couldn't do it while maintaining a high level of quality. I think it goes to show when a company gets too big, and loses focus (why did Toyota introduce so many different SUV models late in the game?), things will unravel.

have never done anything but disparage American, union made products while tooting their defective own horns.

Mmmm... Schadenfreude.

sony buyers, panasonic buyers, people buy what they like and when they get a brand they like and have good experiences from they continue to buy them.

have my Toyota Yaris with my Apple Sticker on the back. Also on the back of my Ford Ranger.

Any company can and will have problems along the way, the real issue is how it is handled. Most folks understand that no one is perfect, but there is a certain lack of "upfrontness" with this Toyota thing that makes one wonder.

.
...and watching u and ur pc hell!



:donut:

i know the monitor says dell but the workings are who the hell knows... :)

how much better my stereo is than theirs, no do I disparage the people who actually build things- workers.

Toyota has publicly bad mouthed American workers and unions in the past, and are currently trying to blame an American company to cover up the fact it is the electronic throttles causing problems.

There's an attitude that often goes with buying Toyotas in America, and you nailed it.

Growing up all I can remember about seeing a Toyota was bad. In fact.. I can't recall seeing one that did not have rust on it somewhere. I try and buy American whenever possible whether that be my Harley, or My Chevy or Ford. I'm not sure how much a difference it makes these days though. What I do know is I'll never buy a Toyota, and not just because my grandfather would come back to life and beat me down either.

My dad is retired GM.....so when I purchased a Lexus GS300 in 2006 needless to say he was less than pleased. Truthfully, it was our first "foreign car" purchase (whatever that means in a global market)
We owned the Lexus for 2 years... every time I took it in for maintenance they would perform "other" repairs and the dealership was always quick to point out that it was NOT a recall. With their maintenance schedule and these non-recall repairs I felt like I was rebuilding the vehicle "on the fly" sorta speak.
After the 2 years, I traded the vehicle in for a 2010 Toyota Camry and a 2008 Nissan 350Z coupe. We have been happy w/ both vehicles and to date have had no issues w/ the electronic accelerator.
All car companies have issues w/ quality...none are above reproach! The quality of some American cars was "poor" in the 70s and 80s (think Chevy Vega or Ford Escort or AMC Gremlin/Pacer or Dodge Duster).
Today, the assembly factories are clean and efficient just like competitors plants.
We don't buy cars and keep them very long...we used to when we were younger. I don't feel an obligation to "buy American" when the reality is that in this global market all car manufacturers search the planet for the cheapest labor and most cost effective means to deliver their product and maximize their profit. Parts for cars are manufactured all over the world... can any mfg co claim to be 100% American? I don't think so.
I buy on style, quality (as best I can determine), performance, value...nothing more.

a Honda, a Nissan, and some American models.

I have no complaints. I've had nothing but Toyotas since '94, and there's a reason for that.

I'm sure American cars are a lot better since the last I owned, a 1990 or '91 (I think) Dodge Shadow. If I wanted (or could afford) a new car, I'd look at American Hybrids as well as Honda and Toyota.

When I buy a new vehicle, I want something that will take me at least 250K on a normal maintenance routine without breakdowns, costly repairs, engine rebuilds, etc.. 300K would be better.

My Toyotas have done exactly that, and I expect my current '04 to do the same.

The vehicle fits your requirements and criteria while others in the market do not do so, hence they got the sale and others did not..

Lots of interesting commentary here, both pro and con. Much appreciated!

This seems like a HUGE debate in Japan right now, I'm sure I'll hear from more people and it's good to know what Americans (and other English speakers of course) are thinking and saying, since they expect me to know "what America thinks" lol. As if I could. :p

...and they sell cars that don't stop when they're supposed to. Most importantly, they've known about these problems for years and hemmed, hawed, denied, covered up and delayed.

The only problem ever proven was a sticking idle air control, which led to a high idle speed - it was the driver response to the condition that caused the crashes. The Audi's brakes are powerful enough to stop the car with the throttle wide open.

engine running.
It's a gross exaggeration, and in all too many cases something else is really going on.
dc

Some Rear-Wheel Drive cars have enough power to overcome the rear brakes and skid the front tires. Couple contributing factors - when braking is optomized for high-traction tires and dry pavement, the bias toward front braking is quite strong - as much as 75%. Also, under most circumstances, front lockup is more stable than rear lockup, because A)rolling friction is higher than sliding friction, and B) a sliding wheel has no directional control.
The Audi was a powerful car, for its day - maybe as much as 250 hp in stock form. and its AWD system meant that all 4 brakes acted on the powertrain. 400+ horsepower in stock form is common now, and readily available modifications can increase this by 75%.
Finally, rearward weight bias, as in classic Porsche and Corvette models, makes it even worse.

Racing cars have had these issues for years - that is why many use brake pressure cutoff switches - like the Roush Interrupter, or switches currently available from Mico, previously from Longacre or Coleman.

Before a new model comes out all the equipment is replaced for the new car.
And each human job is monitored by computers that stop the line if a fastener is too tight or to loose.
The U.S. auto plants are very clean and automated.

We bought our first Toyota in 1989 and loved it. It lasted us 16 years, and might still be running, but I gave it to my brother, who totaled it. In the 1990s we owned a couple of other Toyotas and they were all great, reliable cars.

However our daughter's 2000 Camry had problem after problem. The Toyota dealer gave us one excuse after another and wouldn't fix it without charging us a fortune. A 2001 Camry was similarly worthless. At one point we got a used 1992 Corolla that ran reliably until just this past week, and it still looks good inside and out. With 166,000 miles, it needs a new timing belt and exhaust system, and has a leaky head gasket. Our trusted mechanic says it's not worth fixing any more.

In 2005 we bought a new Toyota Matrix. This car is built like CRAP. The exterior paint scratches at the lightest touch, and the interior is mostly cardboard and flimsy plastic. The inside of the hatch door is cracked and broken, the panel that holds the automatic window buttons has broken off, and the rest of the interior is all dinged and scratched from normal use. Our 1989 and 1992 Corollas never had these flimsiness problems, nor did the Camrys. I will say that so far the Matrix has run reliably, but I don't think we can count on it lasting the way our old Corollas did.

We will never buy another Toyota.

My folks drove my sister and me around in two of the ugliest Toyota Cressida station wagons one ever saw. The first one was solid brown, the other was icky green and ooky brown striped together like a saddle shoe from Hell! Still, I had loads of fun riding in them on our weekend trips to Wisconsin! :hi:

I guess you must be about the same age as my son and daughter then. :)

1st vehicle: 1970 Chevy C10 Pickup - Transmission replaced when it had about 80,000 miles, otherwise ran pretty well. I liked it because I could do things like replace pumps and the carburetor and all that myself pretty easily.

2nd Vehicle: Fiat 850 convertible - there was always something wrong with this car, I spent more fixing it over a year than I paid for the car itself. A terrible choice, but I bought it for damned near nothing.

3rd vehicle: 1979 Toyota Corolla - Bought it with 75,000 miles and the original clutch. Over the three years I owned this car the only thing I paid for was maintenance, the clutch was still good when I sold this car with about 130,000 miles on it.

4th vehicle: 1987 Ford Taurus, Manual Transmission - This was the first new car I ever bought and the absolute worst car owning experience I've ever had. The clutch went at 30,000 miles, and was not covered by warranty, the Ford Dealer told me that I obviously didn't know how to drive a manual. The Heat and AC went, the battery drained, this thing was a lemon. I got rid of it at 35,000 miles. I was scarred for life with this car.

5th vehicle: 1990 Geo Tracker, 4WD, manual Transmission. Bought it new for under $9,000. No AC...This car was driven off road, I took it on many trips over 2,000 miles, it was my commuter car in DC traffic. I donated it with 145,000 miles - and the original clutch. This was an outstanding car. Also the last car I owned before I became a Dad

6th vehicle: 1996 Volvo S70 T5, Manual Transmission. A few electrical problems in the first six months, all covered by warranty. The sun roof motor died at about 100,000 miles. Sold the car with about 125,000 miles on it, and it still had its original clutch.

7th vehicle: 2003 Infiniti M45, I had to replace the main circuit board for this car, it was $4,000+, more than it would cost to replace the engine. I had to replace the seat motor switches, they were draining the battery. This car had some emissions sensor problems too - not a great car. I sold that car with about 97,000 miles on it

8th vehicle: 2009 Toyota Camry Hybrid - I have a little over 40,000 miles on this car, no problems at all, have only done maintenance. So far, I am very happy with this car.


Wife's Cars

When we got married she was driving an Accord with a manual transmission. The only problem we had with this car was with two instances of people stealing parts off of it.

When we started having kids, she got a 1997 Toyota Sienna. This van was driven very roughly, it also required nothing more than maintenance for about 110,000 miles. An excellent buy.

Wife then bought a VW Station Wagon, we traded this car in when she got pregnant with our third child. We had the car about 50,000 miles and it was trouble free

Traded in the VW for a Kia Minivan. Thius car was also trouble free until she traded it in last Monday for a 2004 Honda Pilot with 39,000 miles on it.



So, the worst cars I've owned were a Fiat, A Ford and an Infiniti. The best were a Geo, two Toyotas and a Volvo.

The problems I've seen my parents have with their GM cars has made me leery of owning one of those. My Dad has a Dodge now, and that car seems to be working well. My stepmom has driven a Chrysler PT Cruiser for about 7-8 years now and hasn't reported any big problems with it. My Brother drives a big-ass Ford Diesel Pickup which he also uses to Plow Snow, he's done well with that truck.

My In-Laws are Lexus devotees and haven't reported any problems.......

but my next car will be a Honda: better gas mileage.

certain members of DU work for certain car companies and fight a never ending battle of bad PR against each other. There was just as much joy over GMs troubles last year. Throw in the buy America and Union crowd and you basically got a built in anti-Toyota crowd here. Really there is some car thread everyday. One might claim people are using the board as free advertising for and against certain autoproducts...

is to get you from point A to point B? Cars are a device period, just so we don't have to return to the horse and buggy.

So don't go blaming them on US manufacturers.

I'll tell you why *I* don't like Toyota. I'm from Michigan. They were allowed to price dump cars in the US in 1980s, at huge losses, to gain a foothold and have been systematically trying to destroy the US auto industry ever since with active union busting, building their plants only in right-to-work states, and creating this PR machine that touts their 'green' efforts (while conveniently ignoring the fact that they also make the heaviest, most gas guzzling truck on the roads) without bothering to mention that all that technology was state sponsored; they don't pay for their own R&D. Then Japan closes their own markets to US imports.

Many, many analysts will tell you that this race to outstrip GM has led to carelessness and quality control issues.

totaled in an ice storm in December, I did lots of research for a replacement and it seemed that the car that won out was Camry. For my price point, I started to research into 1995-1998 models. Rave reviews by current owners. I am now a happy owner of a 1995 Camry LE with 134,000 miles on it. So far, so good and it's great on gas.

would be my choice. I loved my Maxima (also great reviews but it was a gas hog) and when it was killed it had 214,000 miles on it.

Thank you! :hi:

They won't let none of our cars in there but don't mind sending theirs over here by the millions. Japans car companies don't have enough workers in Japan to build them all so they need to ship in "guest workers" to build them from Third World countries that basically amounts to slave labor by some accounts. That is why the only jobs left for our kids is guarding pipelines in Iraq and Afghanistan. Toyota is the Walmart of the auto industry. They use identical business plans. Run the competition out of business and then start selling junk because your the only game in town now.

Try telling me a whole lot of young well off Japanese wouldn't just love to be driving a new Camaro or Challenger or Mustang.

Don

http://autos.aol.com/article/japan-bias

Why Don't We Sell More Cars In Japan?

Chevrolet Sells 1 Vehicle In Japan For Every 400 Toyotas In America

Posted: Oct, 24 2009

In sports as in international trade, it’s the raw figures in the record books that can be the toughest to swallow.

Imagine the Philadelphia Phillies annihilating the Tampa Bay Rays 4,000 to 3 in the final game of the 2008 World Series, and you have something like the U.S. automakers’ success rate in breaking into the Japanese and Korean markets.

It is as though the Arizona Cardinals fell to the Pittsburgh Steelers last February without rushing more than a couple yards or Venus or Serena Williams dropped a U.S. Open match without returning a single serve.

In August, only 192 Fords and 63 Chevrolets and were sold in Japan, roughly the same number as a year earlier, according to the Japanese Association of Automobile Importers. And over the last decade, things have actually gotten worse: The figures were 359 for Ford and 793 for Chevrolet in August 1999.

In 2008, Chevrolet exported exactly one vehicle to Japan for every 400 Toyotas exported to the U.S. Throw in the Japanese firm’s production at its U.S. transplants, and the ratio is even more lopsided: Chevrolet sold one vehicle in Japan for every 1,300 Toyotas sold in the U.S.

Ford sold about 2,500 vehicles in Korea last year, compared to nearly 330,000 Hyundai and Kia vehicles imported to the U.S.

Variations in consumer tastes alone can’t possibly account for differences of that magnitude, even though Asian consumers tend to buy smaller cars than Americans do, critics of U.S. trade policy say. Nor do differences in U.S. and Asian quality levels, when there are any.

While Korea and Japan no longer directly restrict U.S. imports, they do put up barriers to them, said Chris Vitale, president of a Michigan-based group, FairImage.org, which promotes open trade in the auto industry.

"For all intents and purposes, the Japanese market is closed to everyone," Vitale said. "No one gets a foothold."

stuff that enters their ports, so could the US.

Elect people who will do that, and the thing will be even.

I don't think that will happen though. We historically vote for the 'name you know', one who has been there forever (see Massachusetts), with a congressional (both houses) reelection rate of over 90%. Seats get new occupants primarily via death and retirement.

THIS ^

When the whole reason has been the japanese government intervenes in the steel industry, in domestic auto sales, in the currency markets, and labor markets.

We can't even get a reasonable bailout when domestic automakers suffer because of the depression.

Always reliable. But they messed up this time. It happens.

Since this is the first time you've ever heard about this case, you should take the time to do some research about it. Read. Understand the issues. And try to understand the progressive position on this topic.

The only car I ever had an "accelerator" problem on was my 1978 Corvette. I'll stick with Toys. :-)

Toyota is looking a little bit like John Edwards right now.

I like the association!

Every Toyota that my family has owned has been excellent.

They commisioned a replacement, obviously to save money. They replaced a spring, in a curved pocket, with raised plastic bumps, acting on other plastic bumps. These wear, and like plastic material gall, increasing the contact area. It was a stupid design, and I wouldnt do it like that. I have designed parts that are similar.

I think it's because Toyota is a multi-national corporation which doesn't advertise its false facade with an American flag in every advertisement.

living off their early 1980s name.

My American cars have had far, far less trouble than any of my friends' Toyotas.

I found out that Mazda is Japanese for Fix Or Repair Daily after owning two of them.

Japanese cars are more expensive to repair and really aren't any more reliable than American cars. Gas mileage isn't all that spectacular either. I can get 32mpg out of a 1995 5.7L V8 Camaro Z28 on the interstate.

On top of which I now hear that Toyota brings in Chinese slave labor into their plants in Japan and works them 16 hours a day for pennies on the dollar of what a Japanese worker gets paid.

No thanks - I'm sticking to my 2008 Dodge and my 1995 Chevy both of which I bought new. The Chevy has 195,000 miles on it and it still runs. Thank you American Auto Worker for making a fine product.

than Ford, than GM (bankrupt) than Chrysler (oops, another bankrupt).
And comparable with the top quality of Honda, and the good or very good Nissan cars.
Unions do not have quality in mind. They have higher wages, and more benefits, and less work in mind.
Unions protect incompetent and careless workers.
Gee, I wonder how I know that.
dc

Ford has beat them in the JD Powers ratings for the last 2 years, and my sources (including Toyota dealer mechanics, dealer principals, and those in the wholesale lease business) confirm that Toyota has lost whatever quality advantage it ever had.

Yeah, I just wanted to hilight your buried lead for everyone scanning the thread. Your attitude pretty much says more about you than any insult I could hurl.

Aww, gee. Can't pin this one on the UAW.

is they have a history of making reliable, quality vehicles - and because they have risen so rapidly to the top.

So it comes as a bit of a surprise. No one expected so many vehicles recalled - and that too for something so serious as a brake/acceleration issue. Also, the cars recalled are some of the best selling vehicles in the country (Camry was the best selling car for 8 years in a row!). It's one thing if there were a bunch of recalls issued for interior dome lights going out or radios dying, but losing control of a car is a very serious issue. Anything related to the safety and well being of the driver and passengers is a big deal.

The company has literally been heralded as being one of the leanest, best run companies in the world for well over a decade. It was considered the company to emulate. Many other companies took things straight from them (5S, Kaizen, A3)...

No one would be surprised if a VW broke down and costed a few thousand dollars to fix because it's some exotic bolt and design that only a specially trained mechanic could fix (I exagerrate but they cost a lot to maintain). I love VWs/Audis. They look great and handle amazing but I don't think they've ever had the same reputation for building reliable vehicles.

The original travelling professionald - also known as Cousin Jacks.

nt

At an old job. Google "Cousin Jacks", and dig around for a while - particularly in the South American gold mines, and in Colorado. They were also responsible for the lunchpail, the steam engine (Invented by James Watt for the Cornish mines), and direct deposit banking.
I would certainly credit the Japanese for "systematizing" 5S to make it more adaptable, and with popularizing the Deming priciples. Toyota, IMHO, has run into problems because they have strayed from these principles.

but half the interior trim has fallen off. x(

My sister's 08 Corolla has its weatherstrip falling.

It's a decent car, but it's dull as all hell. Likewise with my friend's Camry. I'll admit my Ion has the ugliest interior known, but I'll give it some credit for having some pep. Though the gas mileage could be better. It's also been reliable which is important..

of sabotage?

many different problems across several continents.

:eyes:

Like your friend. Throw in the occasional anecdotal evidence ("I love my Toyota! My cousin's nephew's wife had a GM back in the 70s and it stalled a lot.") for good measure.

Basically, these fanboys have been giving American made cars shit for years, and most of it was based on the ASSUMPTION that Toyotas were the shining beacon of quality. Well, that's been shot to shit now. Not only do they have some serious problems, but they (oops) knew about it for a long time and (oops again) seem to still be in denial about what the problem is. They've effectively ruined their reputation, and given that people seemed to base their opinions on the quality of domestic cars on shit that happened decades ago, I think Toyota is kind of fucked. Toyota has publicly bashed American workers and unions, so forgive me if my sympathy is nil. Especially since they're attempting to blame American workers for their issues.

So yeah, for those of us who strongly support unions and domestic car companies, there is a bit of schadenfreude. Believe me, it's warranted. Go back weeks, months, years before this happened and pull up some DU threads with the debates. There were many that were just giddy with glee over GM's bankruptcy. They shared that joy with the union-hating thugs on the other side of the aisle.

I'm quite amused by those who make claims about Toyota being overly cautious with these recalls. Are you kidding me? They had to be forced into it. Do you really think that they would suspend sales and production if it wasn't VERY serious? Let me tell you, it's much more serious than you or I even know about yet. They would not willingly implode. First and foremost, they're a corporation. Their primary goal is to make money, not be ethical. They're not going to completely fuck their reputation for quality to "err on the side of caution".

Another thing... for the people that are always so quick to point out that some Toyotas are made in the USA. Give me a break. A shitty car developed by Japan-subsidized Toyota and put together on US soil by SCABS so the bottom line can go back to Japan? Yeah, that's American made alright... suckers.

Felt good reading it, must have felt great writing it :D

:D

But I am no fan of the american car company Lincoln either, a faulty wiring harness in that piece of shit burned my mom and dads house to the ground christmas of 98, lincoln knew of the problem and did shit all to fix it, thank GOD they got out alive, because thats all they got out with!!

:applause:

ok

...has turned them into--surprise!--arrogant automakers. The current problem seems much more widespread (if a bit less spectacular) than, say, a few flaming Pintos.

It seems like Toyoda's thin correspondence at the meeting made him call the "Child President"

Some of the statements that I found on Japanese bulliten boards:
"If the executives are this stupid, there is no way they will make an improvement. We could have never seen anything like this from Toyota 20 Years Ago"
"I think the existence of Toyota itself is meaningless"
"I think they should just close down all the factories, period"
"Whenever I drive my Prius, Cars around me go apart. Now I can easily drive!"
"Drive in Heaven"


But I myself would still buy a Toyota.