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Queens girl Alexa Gonzalez hauled out of school in handcuffs after getting caught doodling on desk

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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010)

ccharles000

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Sat Feb-06-10 01:17 PM
Original message

Queens girl Alexa Gonzalez hauled out of school in handcuffs after getting caught doodling on desk

A 12-year-old Queens girl was hauled out of school in handcuffs for an artless offense - doodling her name on her desk in erasable marker, the Daily News has learned.

Alexa Gonzalez was scribbling a few words on her desk Monday while waiting for her Spanish teacher to pass out homework at Junior High School 190 in Forest Hills, she said.

"I love my friends Abby and Faith," the girl wrote, adding the phrases "Lex was here. 2/1/10" and a smiley face.

But instead of simply cleaning off the doodles after class, Alexa landed in some adult-sized trouble for using her lime-green magic marker.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/education/2010/02/05/2010-02-05_cuffed_for_doodling_on_a_desk.html

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HillbillyBob

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Sat Feb-06-10 01:20 PM
Response to Original message

1. Yet Bush and company kill millions let the wtc be destroyed

and go free.....

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rcrush

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Sat Feb-06-10 01:24 PM
Response to Original message

2. This is how we treat kids in schools these days

Alexa is the latest in a string of city students who have been cuffed for minor infractions. In 2007, 13-year-old Chelsea Fraser was placed under arrest for writing "okay" on her desk at Intermediate School 201. And in 2008, 5-year-old Dennis Rivera was cuffed and sent to a psych ward after throwing a fit in his kindergarten.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/education/2010/02/05/2010-02-05_cuffed_for_doodling_on_a_desk.html#ixzz0emWCMNoM

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proud2BlibKansan

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Sat Feb-06-10 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #2

6. Were you absent the day they taught about broad brush statements?

30 years teaching and never once have I seen a kid handcuffed at school.

So no, this isn't the way we treat kids at school these days.

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Flaneur

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Sat Feb-06-10 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #6

17. I take it you don't teach in New York City.

Otherwise, you might have. Seems like something of a pattern there.

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proud2BlibKansan

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Sat Feb-06-10 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #17

20. New York is one city and I see no evidence that this is a widespread problem.

You are still making broad brush statements.

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tularetom

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Sat Feb-06-10 01:25 PM
Response to Original message

3. What she did was pretty stupid, but handcuffs? WTF?

When I was in school you could hardly write on a paper on the desks because the surfaces were full of names and other shit carved into the wood.

The only thing they ever bothered to remove was if somebody scratched a picture of breasts or a penis into the desk top. Or a "fuck you" now and then.

But I don't remember ever seeing anybody hauled off in handcuffs.

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alphafemale

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Sat Feb-06-10 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #3

5. I especially note that you said "carved."

Kids carried pocket knives around and nobody thought anything of it.

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proud2BlibKansan

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Sat Feb-06-10 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #5

7. Ball point pens work too if you want to carve a desk

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tularetom

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Sat Feb-06-10 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #5

14. Yep - I graduated from HS in 1959 in a country school

And it wasn't just pocket knives. Some kids actually came to school with hunting knives on their belts.

I only remember one incident. I was sitting at one of the outdoor tables watching a kid play that game where you lay your hand on the table with your fingers spread out and try to stick the knife between your fingers as fast as you can. Of course he missed, stuck the knife right into his index finger and sliced a big chunk of skin right off the bone.

Even then there was no move to restrict knives in the school. Were we naive, or have things just gone too far today?

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alphafemale

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Sat Feb-06-10 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #14

23. People have let the dark side's of their imaginations get the better of them.

I think the 24 hr news cycle may have led to the nanny state

You have to fill all that time with something.

Fear sells.

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Name removed

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Sat Feb-06-10 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #3

16. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

NYC_SKP

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Sat Feb-06-10 01:30 PM
Response to Original message

4. 2008: 5-year old cuffed to his chair, then sent to psych ward for evaluation.

5-Year-Old Cuffed for Temper Tantrum

A mother is upset that last week her five-year-old son was allegedly handcuffed to a chair after throwing a temper tantrum in his Queens kindergarten class. The incident occurred last week at PS 81 and Jasmina Vasquez said her son Dennis Rivera was terrified. Rivera, who is quite large for a five-year-old at 68 pounds, reportedly was having a fit and knocking things off desks, when a school safety agent cuffed his hands behind him while seated in a chair.

A guidance counselor called Vasquez, who works in Manhattan, to tell her what was happening and the mother sent Rivera's babysitter over to PS 81. The babysitter said that the school safety agents would not release Rivera to her custody, but instead transported him to a nearby hospital for a psychiatric evaluation. He was evaluated and then released to his mother. Rivera is currently attending a private school.

Parents seemed appalled at the prospect of handcuffing a child to a chair and Vasquez said her son has been having nightmares since the incident. Legal actions against the school are being planned of course. According to WCBS TV, the police report related to the incident, however, says that the nearly-70 lb five-year-old was "punching his teacher and swinging wildly at school aides, that he smacked the assistant principal in the face, ran into a corner, and began to throw things on the floor."

An incident in October 2007, in which a principal was arrested for coming to the aid of a student being arrested for not complying with school safety agents, raised question about their role in schools. School safety agents are under the jurisdiction of the police, and critics claim that simple disciplinary matters are elevated to criminal matters by their presence and actions.

http://gothamist.com/2008/01/26/5yearold_cuffed.php

:wtf:

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proud2BlibKansan

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Sat Feb-06-10 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #4

8. Every time I see one of these stories posted I ask this question and never get an answer

Is it really okay for a 5 year old to throw a temper tantrum and knock things around in a classroom full of other 5 year olds?

No I am NOT justifying handcuffing any kids. I just want to know what you think we should do at school when kids become violent.

And yes, it has happened in my classroom. No handcuffs were necessary however. :)

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RedCappedBandit

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Sat Feb-06-10 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #8

9. To put it simply..

one should not require the use of handcuffs to remove a *5 year old* from a classroom.

They are rather small.

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proud2BlibKansan

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Sat Feb-06-10 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #9

11. Read my post again. I said handcuffs are not the solution.

I am asking all who are appalled by the use of handcuffs to suggest how else we can prevent a violent student from harming the other kids who are NOT violent but unfortunately have to share a classroom with the violent one.

Would you want your child in this classroom?

Seems to be a simple enough question. :)

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RedCappedBandit

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Sat Feb-06-10 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #11

13. Sorry, didn't mean to imply that you thought handcuffs were a good idea.

Edited on Sat Feb-06-10 02:03 PM by RedCappedBandit

It seems like it would be rather easy to pick the kid up and remove him from whatever situation is causing him to be so distressed.

Would I want him in my classroom? Not during a tantrum, obviously.

Edit: misread your question, and you make a good point. Have to say I wouldn't want my own kid to be in such a situation.

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proud2BlibKansan

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Sat Feb-06-10 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #13

19. But we are told not to put our hands on the kids

Seriously.

And if a kid is tantruming, the last thing the teacher should do is touch him.

I think most people reading this are thinking well I am bigger than a 5 year old and I can restrain him to stop him from harming the other kids. And if this was YOUR child that would be an appropriate thing to do. BUT this is not YOUR child. And you don't have the right (legally or morally, IMO) to restrain him.

As a teacher, I am trained to think of what is best for ALL the kids, not just how to stop the one from his violent behavior.

So it is a very difficult dilemna and while I do not endorse handcuffing him, I understand why it happens.

The other point I want to make is schools don't have handcuffs. If a child is handcuffed, that has been done by a police officer. Yet the schools are always blamed.

It's just another one of those hot button issues that isn't as simple as it seems. :shrug:

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NYC_SKP

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Sat Feb-06-10 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #8

12. While I was a teacher with at-risk youth, I physically broke up more than one fight.

And took a gun from a kid, turned out to be a replica but I didn't know it when I took it (or rather convinced him to give it to me).

Whenever these things happened admins warned me that I shouldn't have done it. Hmmm. OK.

They all worry about lawsuits at least as much as safety.

My decisions were made instinctively, and if there were policies I'd have broken them.

These stories make for good sensationalistic headlines, but nobody who wasn't there can know what was really happening.

I can easily imagine reasons for using cuffs, to prevent harm to themselves and to others.

So, I posted that story but didn't offer my own opinion, as I was not there.

A big 5-year old could be a very real thread to his smaller peers and himself, and people of any age can go crazy and need restraining.

:shrug:

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proud2BlibKansan

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Sat Feb-06-10 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #12

15. I've never once seen a kid handcuffed at school

And I teach special ed so I see kids freak out like this 5 year old at least once a year.

And my first thought when I see these stories is What about the other kids?! You and I both know it is incredibly traumatic for 5 year olds to have to dodge books and scissors and yes even furniture being thrown by a classmate. Yet we all fixate on the injustice of handcuffing a 5 year old and no one ever mentions the other kids.

Maybe because I have to deal with the aftermath? These kids suffer from PTSD after these incidents. I am an adult and kids having temper tantrums freak ME out. They are incredibly traumatic for ALL the kids.

I also want everyone criticizing the way schools handle violent kids to answer this question: Would you want your own 5 year old child in that class?

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NYC_SKP

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Sat Feb-06-10 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #15

21. I have, after police arrived, or guards when I was at juvenile hall, but never saw a teacher with em

I don't know who keeps handcuffs, school security I suppose.

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proud2BlibKansan

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Sat Feb-06-10 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #21

26. No security in elementary schools

Edited on Sat Feb-06-10 02:28 PM by proud2BlibKansan

We can call and they come pretty quickly. But they are not on site.

oops, site not sight. LOL

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Flaneur

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Sat Feb-06-10 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #8

18. So, how did you handle it without cuffs, cops, and an arrest?

Of course it's not "okay." But sometimes that's what happens, as you noted.

What's not okay in my book is criminalizing disruptive behavior by little kids.

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proud2BlibKansan

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Sat Feb-06-10 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #18

25. Well schools aren't the ones criminalizing the behavior

As I pointed out in another post, police officers carry handcuffs and they make the decision to handcuff a child. Not the school.

But I do think we need to be a bit concerned that a child is violent enough that the school has the need to call the cops. That to me is the larger issue here.

As for how I handle it, I immediately remove all the other kids from the classroom and take them to the library or somewhere else in school where they are out of sight and sound of the violent child. I use my cell phone to call the office and alert them while I am taking my kids out of the classroom. Then the counselor or principal (or both) go into the classroom and try to calm the child down. Most of the time removing his audience is all that is necessary. One time they had to let the kid wear himself out. And I had one student who only responded to me so the principal had to take my class and I stayed in the classroom with the tantruming child until he calmed down. This year we had a sibling who was able to stop the tantrum. I didn't like that because it placed the sibling in a dangerous situation, but she was able to talk little brother down. Thank God.

Then we contact the parent. Or the secretary calls while we are trying to calm him down.

We have never had to call the police but I would in a heartbeat if I thought the other students were in danger.

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RedCappedBandit

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Sat Feb-06-10 01:45 PM
Response to Original message

10. No wonder so many kids dislike school. nt

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OmmmSweetOmmm

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Sat Feb-06-10 02:14 PM
Response to Original message

22. This was on the local NBC news in NY today. Although this article doesn't say it, NBC reported that

the principal said she made a mistake by having the girl arrested.

I think that Alexa is going to have an excellent court case, draining the city of much needed money.

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GinaMaria

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Sat Feb-06-10 02:20 PM
Response to Original message

24. I did the same thing when I was 12

Edited on Sat Feb-06-10 02:24 PM by GinaMaria

So glad I never got hauled out of school in handcuffs! I'd use the desk to announce who I had a crush on... real subtle :-D I got my karmic comeuppance when years later I took a summer job cleaning a grade school. Yep, I had to clean all the doodles off desks also had to scrape the gum from the underside.

This seems to be a normal part of growing up. The reaction is so extreme. Welcome to the police state kids. I'm sad for this girl.

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TexasObserver

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Sat Feb-06-10 02:41 PM
Response to Original message

27. In grade school we played Chicken with pocket knives in front of the school.

Edited on Sat Feb-06-10 02:46 PM by TexasObserver

Most boys had a pocket knife they carried. After school, we would "play" in front of the school immediately after school got out. Two boys face off a couple feet apart. Each spreads his legs until his feet are far apart. Then they start throwing their knife into the ground in between the other guy's legs. You take turns. The goal is to throw the knife so that it sticks in the ground between the other guy's feet.

As the game progresses, each player's feet get closer together. That makes throwing the knife between the feet more dangerous. Eventually, one player either chickens out because his feet are too close together, or someone catches the other guy's knife in the foot. Getting stuck by the point of the knife blade was common in such "games."

That was grade school. Occasionally a teacher might see us and say "you boys stop playing Chicken."

I don't think we need to go back there, but we do need to stop trying to make criminals of everything children do that's the least bit annoying or destructive. Kids do things they shouldn't. We should simply make them clean it up, do a little penance, and stop acting as if none of us ever did anything wrong when we were kids.

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old mark

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Sat Feb-06-10 02:42 PM
Response to Original message

28. When I was in school, we carved messages in desk tops and elsewhere

Edited on Sat Feb-06-10 02:42 PM by old mark

with pocket knives.

But we can't have any of those in schools any more, either.

I am amazed that young people actually manage to survive high school despite what the "educational" system does to them.

mark

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