There is no "left" or "right". There is only the Owners and the Rest of Us.

Some of the "Rest of Us" are Teabaggers, but that's only because they've been more successfully conned by the Owners to betray their own class. They are the products of the Owners' successful divide and conquer strategy -- an ancient strategy that's been deployed throughout history.

Why did Medieval peasants turn on their neighbors and condemn them as witches? It was because the Owner Class successfully sowed fear among them in order to control them.

It's no different today. The Owner Class consistently engages in misdirection to turn the anger of the oppressed away from the Owners -- the rightful target -- and toward another faction of the oppressed.

And EVERYONE falls into the same trap. No one is immune. We so-called liberals are just as gleeful in our hatred for those whom we deem beneath us, as any mob screaming "Witch! Witch!" in the village square.

As long as we are willing to focus hatred and mockery on our fellow victims of the Owners' designs, we are aiding and abetting the rule of the Owners.

sw

Thank you!

:applause:

:kick:

Their biggest fear is that our eyes are opened to their tactics and we begin to fight them.

The elites work hard at keeping us divided on the unimportant things just so we dont come to realize how much we really have in common when it comes to being screwed over by those same elites.

"We so-called liberals are just as gleeful in our hatred for those whom we deem beneath us, as any mob screaming "Witch! Witch!" in the village square."

... while rushing to get on that high moral horse.

Napoleon is credited with saying 'religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich'
Ever notice how there are lots of songs about labor leaders, for example, but none about owners?

he would have shot a non-believer, because he could not control one who was curious or challenged his authority.

As long as the Owners divide the rest of us into DUers and Freepers, and let us battle it out endlessly, they still screw us all over.

both of the current situation and the historical one. It's so much more complex than that. I understand the urge to find one clear cut enemy, but it's not as simple as you think. You seem to have no idea that you're doing what you decry. That's interesting. I mean really, who are the owners? Is it anyone about a certain income level? What exactly?

the rest of us passed. I thought that was obvious.

Some just don't want to believe it. Hate to have their own special worldview rocked.

for rulers rather than workers.

Or is it easier for you to accuse someone else as simple and then do nothing about it?

Nice try though!!

The DLC has doing a good job encouraging classist sentiment among Democrats (Sheep! Morans! Stupid, gun-toting rednecks!!!) in order to keep us populists attacking each other.

and religiously intolerant people who hate government, despise socialism, worship Limbaugh and praise unfettered capitalism. It's all the DLC or the owners or whoever.

All populists are not cut from the same bolt of cloth.

A black candidate who was called a 'socialist' by the other side?

black woman would have as easy time getting a job as a white man.

Don't become what you hate.

who are only trying to find not only answers but justice and human rights for their loved ones with autism.

:eyes:

A curebie talking about human rights? :rofl:

Absolute statements are never correct.

It is as equally true that some of those folks are evil as it is that some of them are mislead. Both of you are engaging in prejudicial thinking and, one might assume, discriminatory actions. But I can't say for sure since I don't know either of you.

Let's all keep in mind that not all Germans were sick evil twisted fucks during WW2, but we should also remember that "good germans" who should have known better allowed the tragedies of that time to proceed with their tacit agreement. The good germans also shared the blame.

I need an aspirin after that one. Oy.

In any case, if you are a black person or Jew or Muslim or immigrant or gay or 'witch' who is murdered by haters, you are just as dead, whether they murdered you out of evil intentions or being misled.

You have often pointed out the very serious problems of school bullying; and I do think that a certain proportion of far-rightists are simply school bullies grown up.

Some *are* just ill-informed. It is no coincidence that right-wing leaders often pursue policies that restrict access to education among the population: a poorly educated populace is easier to manipulate.

It is also true that bad economic circumstances breed prejudice and xenophobia and intolerance. If the Germans had not been up against the wall in the 1930s, perhaps Hitler would never have risen to power. Economic justice is vital not only for its own sake, but also for reducing the fertility of the soil that breeds racist and fascist and warmongering movements.

However, I sometimes get the impression that some people (definitely not including you) think that it is OK to pander to racism and social intolerance in order to get allies against the economic establishment and/or against the war. And this view is dangerous and could encourage neo-fascist movements.

in order to get allies against the economic establishment and/or against the war. And this view is dangerous and could encourage neo-fascist movements."

THANK YOU. And these same people are flabbergasted, just FLABBERGASTED when blacks and Hispanics and Jews etc. say "what in the name of God is the matter with you wanting to align with these imbeciles??!"

Many of the ones who advocate this policy the loudest are also (coincidentally or not) the same ones who can find NOTHING good with anything that Obama has done while in office. It is damning and very telling.

This right-wing populist movement is a lot of things, but most of all it's angry. Angry, working class people who feel like they've been screwed over, and rightly so. Some of them put the blame on minorities or liberals, out of their own prejudices or the urging of a scapegoating right-wing propagandist like Rush Limbaugh, but that's not the issue.

Much of the working class in this country has their back against the wall and they're extremely pissed off, and they're in that position because they've been exploited by big-money interests.

it's the same people. clinton was a fairly popular president but there was a hard-core who hated him. same people.

Clinton endured.

They just weren't organized into TV-friendly appearances. And why would they be? The interests who set up this "Tea Party" promotion were in power back then.

You can't tell me you've forgotten all the angry Conservatives and "morans" during the Bush years. Same people, angry at the same things. Maybe they blame the wrong people for their lot in life, but that doesn't change the fact that their life in pretty shitty and they are indeed angry about it.

it's the blame game-their anger is directed towards those they are taught or told to fear. For the MSM hate spewers know how to pander to one's preconceived prejudices.

describing what the teapartiers espouse.

serves the same function to the rulers.

look, witches!! you need us to protect you from those bad entities!!

the fact remains that the teapartiers can hardly draw a crowd.

the only reason they get airtime is because someone with deep pockets & connections is backing them.

makes the OP's point.


And your point, Hannah, sorely bears repeating.
The tiny group of Freepers is funded and driven by a RW idealogue.
Didja notice how C-span made it seem such an important group>
48 hour coverage, all weekend.
Barf............

They WANT progressives to hate and mock them, which will just fire them up more.

Meanwhile, they just continue along, taking ever more control of every facet of your life.

Fascism divides, then wins.

The left and the right need to make common cause to preserve the ability for our serious disputes TO EVEN MATTER.

to get the vast majority of them to understand that.

"All populists are not cut from the same bolt of cloth."

The tea-baggers in no way represent any values of mine and the fact that many of them are disempowered the same way that I am does not fool me into believing that I have any goals in common with them.
Aside from the racism and homophobia, the blatant disdain and paranoia for anything associated with literacy, education, science, heck broadening one's mind in general, makes me wary of this style of populism.

It is a damn shame that everyone does not have the same access to education and that is something the elites have promoted and helps disempower people. But proudly clinging to illiteracy and indeed making an acheievment out of how much you despise learning, knowledge etc. is going down a path that ensures you will remain ignorant and with your mind clouded in darkness and paranoia...

The teabaggers represent the worst kind of populists-those that disempower the alreadfy disempowered by telling them to reject knowledge, education and science.

"but that's only because they've been more successfully conned by the Owners to betray their own class"

are just more examples of the divisions fostered among us.

The most dangerous thing Martin Luther King, Jr. ever planned was the Poor People's March on Washington. Get a whole lot of poor folks together and they start talking and figuring out that their economic situation gives them a lot more in common than their race makes them different, and the powers that be may have a big problem on their hands.

MLK was murdered before the march happened. It still went on but without his leadership it was not the event he had hoped it would be.

Sadly, it is all too easy to divide people using race and/or religion as the reason TPB know this and Rush, Beck, Palin etal are willing tools to help with the division.

blessed by the church (in bed with owners) who could take your possessions, your land and then your life if they even suspected you of "Witchcraft". I once saw a list of "needs" from the period, penned by a Witchfinder General visiting a small town to try an old woman for witchery. It was a laundry list of goodies, new clothes, new shoes, new horses and coach finery that would all be paid for by the estate of the old woman if she were found guilty.

Well guess how that turned out.

It was organized theft! And some who went along with the church, did so in fear. Just like some German citizens did not speak because of fear. A powerful organization (government or church) used scapegoats and fear to gain further control of the masses, gain more power and wealth. When the inquisition came into towns, many people would flee. The town or the family had to pay for their torturers, their land was confiscated. It was a very lucrative business. When the Nazis outlawed the Jews, all of their assets were seized by the German government. A very, very lucrative enterprise.

but yes, your point is taken.

..than with the Ownership Class.

If the Democratic Party still represented Working Americans, it would be easy to romance some of the less crazy members away on Populist Economic issues.

Working Americans have been screwed for decades. But because there are more of us than there are Owners, the Owners have to make sure that we don't make common cause with each other. The Owners appear to have an easy time of it, unfortunately.

sw

belonged to for all my life1 Well at least since I was 11 and started following politics!

You are so correct, THEY don't represent Working Americans or "we the people" much anymore. It's really a sad state of affairs, but I don't think many of them are listening much. If the Democrats had a movement going like the T.B.'s I think many would follow because so many feel betrayed by their own in Congress & the WH!

But, it's not happening and people ARE getting angrier and angrier! I wonder so much these days when things are really going to POP! Could be wrong, and apathy for us will remain the same.

JMHO

THAT is the Democratic Party of my parents and grandparents.
THAT is the Democratic Party I joined 41 years ago.
Unfortunately, THAT "Democratic Party" is dead, DEAD, DEAD.

It bears NO resemblance to the political party using that name today.

And you have Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, and other lumaries to follow.

:applause:

I've always said that war is just one country's workers fighting another country's workers for the right to be exploited by the victor. But the theory works in more than just war. "Look, there's your enemy...go get 'em!" Easy as pie.

and it is so easy to see that there is a conscious effort to divide people against each other. Unfortunately, religion is used in this way most effectively. The concept, as always, is to keep the people fighting each other
:thumbsup:.

Look at the fight over taxing the benefits of union workers. A classic worker against worker fight right here on DU. Then there's the "people who bought more house than they could afford. Many other examples these days to keep us fighting each other instead of organizing against the ruling class.

From his 2005 HBO special: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYIC0eZYEtI

Transcript:

Thank you for posting that.

Good Post

K & R

But that's the short and long of it all, scarletwoman.

Democrat, Republican, liberal, conservative.

All pure bullshit to distract the masses.

torches or pitchforks will effect them.

They are not human.

They are Golem, artificial creations/machines that exist only to steal, plunder, pillage, rape, exploit, and dominate through force.

Have you ever seen the movie "The Cube"? "They" are made of individuals who are cogs in a larger "ownership class" machine.

we keep running for the football as Lucy (the GOP) snatches it up again. We get the sand kicked in our faces and do nothing about it. We don't even say "hey, remember who got us into this mess?" We like to be liked and that's why their vocal minority keeps winning.

tradition.

:yourock:

:crazy:

The right have been conditioned to literally despise us. Hate us. Think we are evil and serve the devil.

Of course, that has been done for a reason. Their hate and rhetoric against us obviously makes us direct our attention back on them. It can be pretty disturbing.

Of course, we DO still focus on the elite for the correct reasons, but our chances of persuading our "friends across the aisle" are slim after
the constant dehumanizing that has occurred from their official mouthpieces.

I agree that people in power whip up xenophobia and mob spirit in order to rally the public around their leaders. Nothing like an Enemy, real or imagined, to serve as a scapegoat for people's anger and fear and to make them rally loyally around the powerful people who exploit and bully them. Besides (and I think the importance of this aspect is often underestimated) - whipping up hate can be Big Business. The owners of the British tabloids and American talk-shows would go bankrupt if they couldn't whip up a 'daily hate' among a sufficient number of people.

However, this does not mean that the xenophobic Right are not dangerous, or that most of them could be readily persuaded that their resentment should be directed only at those who really are exploiting them. History also teaches us that some people (of all classes) are more likely than others to wish to harm those in a weaker position - whether weaker through poverty, physical weakness, or minority status. In other words, some people apply the principles of playground bullying to their political attitudes. The elitist right want the rich to crush the poor; the so-called 'populist' right want the middle class to crush the poor. Either way, they want the poor to be crushed. They also want minorities and foreigners to be crushed, though *which* minorities and foreigners are involved will depend on current social and political circumstances.

I do think that if economic circumstances were made more just and less oppressive there WOULD be less resentment ripe for the exploitation, and therefore a lot of the market for the hate-merchants's products would disappear. But not all of it.

The veneration of property rights above all other values is a major cause of the problem.

It is because the Owners have all of the property that property is venerated.

For all things with a "D" stamped after the name even know that while Reed was penning his missive about the Soviet history, Mussolini had charmed the pants off the Left bank Parisian crowd of artists, writers and emerging film stars.

Ah, the more things change, the more they remain the same, n'est ce pas?

I completely agree.

Divide & conquer.

Keep 'em poor and struggling and then pit them against each other. Keep 'em too busy fighting each other to see what is really right in front of their noses.

Separate. Divide. The other guy is "different" than you...he can't be as good as you are. Be afraid of him ...hate him.

How many hundreds (thousands) of years have "they" been at it? Now we are at a point where all this hate has its own terrible momentum. What can stop it?? Only thing I can come up with is truth....shine the light on those rats and watch 'em try to hide.

Problem is.....hatred has its own momentum and feeds on itself and on the fear it creates along the way.

What will it take to make humankind wake up and realize we are all in this together?? I shudder to think.



:hi:sw :loveya:

"What will it take to make humankind wake up and realize we are all in this together?? I shudder to think."

I wish there were a way to know. Time and again I come back to Leonard Crow Dog's prophecy that "the earth will shake like a dog throwing off fleas..."

Maybe Mother Earth Herself will have the last word. She will either set us to rights, or we will succeed in destroying ourselves.

I've seen the looming trouble for so long, and there seems to be no remedy for it.

But I will take what blessings may come, which includes seeing you still here on DU. :hug:

:loveya:
sw

Thanks for the thread, scarletwoman.:thumbsup:

Smokey James: They pit the lifers against the new boy and the young against the old. The black against the white. Everything they do is to keep us in our place.

My family owns and runs a business and pays union wages and union health benefits. Due to recession and lack of business hours have been cut back but that goes also for the ones running the business who've had to hold their paychecks as well.

The majority of small businesses aren't just fat cats making profit exploiting workers. They put a lot of work and effort into running their businesses.

They are working to make ends meet just like these oppressed people you talk about.

Also without business owners what's the plan for this 10% unemployment? I'm sorry but we progressives can't turn all business owners into the enemy.

There's a reason why unions in the US weren't corrupted by radical socialism like in European countries and that's due to our belief in ownership of property.

The only reason someone in your position would even consider thinking that they were being addressed is pride, hubris, and the desire to be something you will likely never be allowed to become.

Didn't define what she meant by it. I take that as meaning property owners.

:hi:

No truly small business is a member of the "Owner's club". It's an http://www.lcurve.org/">elite bunch ;)

missed the point. Not trying to be sarcastic, just not getting it!

:shrug:

Read Chapt. 8, 'The Machine Breakers' from 'The Iron Heel' by Jack London (1907).

The more things change, the more things stay the same.

That's pride fucking with you. You could only confuse yourself with the targets of the thread by pride, hubris, and/or a desire to be what you almost certainly will never be allowed to be.

Good on you for paying living wages and providing goods or services that people want or need but you are at most a bit player with your hands no where near the wheel. We are talking about a very small handful with the Lion's share of the resources and power not Joe Blow that runs an HVAC company or whatever.

and you all need to think through that and figure out where you really come down in this.

or property owners.

What's with the "There's a reason why unions in the US weren't corrupted by radical socialism like in European countries and that's due to our belief in ownership of property".

Who told you Europeans don't believe in property ownership? Now that's Bullshit. :eyes:

Are you referring to Eastern Europe under Soviet rule (which ended 20 years ago if you hadn't noticed!), or do you actually think that the unions in Europe in general are 'corrupted radical socialists'??????

on a bigger scale would help. Is your family part of the top 1%? That's who I think of when I hear the word "owners"

"I like what the puppet on the left says."
"No the puppet on the right is more to my liking."
"Hey look! There's one guy holding up both puppets!"
"Shut up! Go back to bed America, your goverment is in control! Here, watch American Idol and get fat and stupid. Oh and keep eating Taco Bell you fucking morons!!!"

:yourock:

taxes, health care, social issues, etc.,-all important topics yes-but not as important as our very fundamental rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness that are being stolen from all of us while we fight over the details.

The powers that be know how to play the game and screw us all to the nth degree.

It's way past time to kick their asses.

I think you miss the very real desire of the common folk of the right to some day be and lift up the same power brokers that are the core enemy.

I've talked to many a radical regressive that sees the game fairly clearly and want it played the way it has been. I think it is also approaching silly to think that the Reich wing movement isn't self selective, these folks are in many cases legit racists, homophobes, dominist, and sexist and their strongly held viewpoints lead directly to an environment that nurtures the nonsense the power brokers thrive in.

No question whatsoever that it would help mightily to be able to point to an actual alternative that puts the people first but there have ALWAYS been Torry minded fucks that are all about being walked on and believe they will be rewarded for their treachery, in this world, the next, or even despite any turn about.

At some point in time and space the greedy and soulless rose from some stock, I find it simplistic and pollyannaish to believe that some people inherently aren't pieces of shit just as it is simplistic and cynical to buy that "a tiger never changes it's stripes" thinking.

Willful ignorance is real as heart attack and it is just as dangerous to ignore it as it is to feed it. Knowledge is the cure for ignorance but you can't fix stupid or evil.

See: French Revolution

boat, we're all victims of The Man" bullshit.

and then there's the rest of us.

It's all just a matter of how well these tendencies and leanings are manipulated and exploited.

1) At ruling-class levels, "left" or "right" are small distinctions at best, and
2) The larger divide is by class.

:shrug:

because you are fearful of change, or you see change as being OK. You are either naturally suspicious of everyone who isn't like you, or you are more open-minded and forgiving of differences. You either want everyone to be taken care of at a certain basic level, or you want people to sink or swim on their own (provided that you can swim). You either see the world as full of enemies who rightfully need their little red wagons fixed, or you think war is usually a bad idea.

You're right about the change/no change model

how godawful Bush and Cheney were, and/or how frightened they were that Old Man McCain would keel over and leave his VP in charge.

And as the economy worsens, as more jobs disappear and real wages remain stagnant, more and more citizens will want change. And we'll no doubt continue to see the erratic pinball bouncing of corporate rightwing ideology, from party to party!

It ain't Grand Dragon Billy down the road, he doesn't have a pot to piss in and wouldn't know media from marshmallows. The pathological among us are a tiny minority and would be irrelevant without the media and wealthy backers.

And the people pushing it here are the long term teabaggers/Naderites who have been here for ever.

Most of us on the left know the boat we are in is the one created by 30 years of Milton Friedman's economic tyranny and the purchase of our government by the corporatist ruling class. The teabaggers have been brainwashed by the anti-government propaganda and still think it's the welfare queens, minorities, and illegal aliens who have blocked their path to prosperity. Just because they don't know they are in the same boat with us does not mean they are not.

Love you SW.
BHN

Welcome to Medieval Times American style. At least in the fiefs the lords allowed the peasants a place to live on their land. Our overlords don't even do that.

it is behind every problem we lament on DU

Keep hope alive!

When they try to live underground when the asteroid comes and let the rest of us die, we will weld those doors permanently shut! Or when they fly their silver seed to a new home in the sun, the terrorists will shoot down that rocket.

The people will survive. The Mayans killed their sacrificing overlords. They still exist. Overlords do not.

Deep in my heart, I do believe. We shall overcome some day!

BHN

You have nailed it right on the head!

Its a lot of bait and switch and for the majority..it is working..darn it.

The main ones they use are

*Gay marriage,
*Abortion
*Racism
*Religion

I have never understood why democrats/liberals/Progressives as a whole are not screaming about the "Great NEO-CON Depression" and the "Great REPUBLICAN Recession" at the top of their lungs, in every conversation and on every street corner.

The biggest tool at our fingertips is to NAME who made the mess and we don't use it.

And what really befuddles me is how we can come to idolize some of these owners for what they say and do in complete hypocracy. I think their days are numbered though because we're seeing the elite establishment "owners" of both major parties being slammed from within. Brown winning in MA was a rebuke of the state and natinal party elite. Republicans are having similar problems from within. Look at the wild House race in NY where the establishment Rep. candidate had to drop out of the race in a decidedly Rep. district and the Dem won. Virginia's 5th is in open mutiny against GOP National and State leaders who pretty much appointed a candidate for the House. The guy in the middle who only wants good governance is really mad and is abandoning old party loyalty for candidates that will more closely represent him instead of a complete platform. Thats what most of the teabaggers are. They have abandoned their traditional party affiliation, mostly independants followed by former Republicans and Democrats. There are some liberals in there too because they feel taken advantage of by the owners of the Democrat party. There is a sea change here.

nt

Guess who wanted their land? The Owners.

want us to fight! That way, we'll be too busy bickering about gay marriage or drug legalization, or charter schools to notice what they are doing to us. I'm finding more and more rightwingers agreeing with me that the SC decision to give corps free speech is horrible and that we need public financing of campaigns. This left and right thing has to stop. It is the people against the corporations!

It doesn't matter whether the owners are a bit of a fuzzy group, or if there are a few wealthy nice people among them, they control government nevertheless, and that ownership short-circuits democracy and steals representation from the few.

Until we are organized, united, and unwilling to challenge the status quo, the status quo will remain. And the status quo isn't stasis, it's a steady loss of democracy as wealth and power continue to accumulate with the permission of the masses.

And yes, it's complicated, but that lack of simplicity is no excuse for inaction in the face of uncertainty. The general pattern is more than clear enough to base action upon. The difficulty in identifying the enemy in this class struggle is by design--the illusion of the American Dream is a tactic.

You would have been proud of me.

Quick synopsis of the scene:

Set up- I drove around the block at least ten times waiting for a parking space to open.
I don't usually use this post office, but it was in the neighborhood where I had other
business today. I wanted to use the self service mail machine to send a gift to my mom.

FINALLY, a parking place opened. I walked in and lo and behold, no self serve postal machine
in its usual location. Just a blank wall with some wires hanging out.

I peered inside the main lobby, not too bad of a line.
None the less, just in case, hoping against hope, I asked one of the people,
a woman behind the counter, "Is the self serve machine gone?" I was thinking maybe they moved it?

With a smart ass smirk and look of mock surprise, she replied,
"Oh no, you mean its GONE?"

"Oh, I see- wish I'd known that, I just spent twenty minutes trying to park to
come in and use it..." I said.

She smirked and said, "Well if its not there, it must be GONE! Thanks for letting us know!"

I wanted to slap her at this point, thinking to myself, "Why in the hell does she
have to be so sarcastic?" A simple yes or no would have sufficed.

So I shuffled into the line with the rest of the weary waiting customers.
I ended up behind an extremely charming elderly man clutching three medium-sized yellow mailers.
all of them painstakingly addressed in that lovely old school cursive that only older people
know how to write in these days.

As we were chatting, he said, "Do you know? I had an old mailing tube I meant to bring
with me today. It has a 1 cent stamp on it! Can you imagine that? 1 cent!"
It had contained a group photo from a banquet he attended decades ago.

At this point I was in love with him. What a charming thought, that he had wanted to
show the people at the post office his mailing tube with a 1 cent stamp.

His turn came at the window with Miss Smart Ass-would-do-well-as-a-detainment-camp-guard.
He handed over his envelopes and she snapped, "What's in here?"
"A magazine for a friend." he replied.

"Well that costs extra because magazines have advertisements in them."

She put it on the scale. "Eight dollars and nine cents." The black hearted bitch informed him.

"WHAT? That's a lot of money!" "That's because it's a magazine and they have advertisements."
The vicious bitch retorted.

I am observing this whole scene and it is taking every inch of my being to resist
jumping the counter and ripping this hateful woman's head off.

"You know, " he began to tell her, "I had an old mailing tube with a 1 cent stamp I meant
to bring and show you..."

"EIGHT dollars and NINE cents" the black hearted one demanded, ignoring his story about the
1 cent stamp on the old mailing tube.

At this point, I could no longer contain myself.

"What if the magazine is a church newsletter? You know, not-for -profit. No advertisements?
How much would it cost then?" She scowled at me and gritting her teeth, said, "How should I know?"
"Church newletters contain advertisements too!" She growled at me.

The line of customers had now grown to nearly 20 people, all watching to see what would happen next.
Looking her eye to eye, I spoke evenly and said, "My guess is that this gentleman is on a fixed income
and eight dollars is quite a chunk of change for him. Why don't you give him a break?"

To my great joy, the other customers shouted, "Yeah! Give the guy a break!"

She was livid and said, "I have to follow the rules!"
I said "Sure let's follow the rules right into fascism."

The other customers were RIGHT there with me. It was us against her.

The old man was stunned and looked at me with a quiet smile.

"You do know what to say, the next time you mail a magazine and she asks you what's in the
envelope, don't you?" I asked him with a big grin.

"Why yes, yes I do. Thank you young lady!"
He waved and shuffled out the front door, grinning ear to ear.

The other customers in line all shared a smile of deep satisfaction
and the wanna be Hitler knew she had been defeated.

Total strangers called her out on what was obviously a vicious act
and we did it TOGETHER.

Bet she never asks him what's in his envelope again...

BHN

You are one of the lights here, and I want to make sure that you know I appreciate all you do.

It's DUers like you who inspire me to speak my mind instead of just giving up on the whole thing.

:hug:
sw

Jack Clark aka "The Rational Radical", in his excellent podcast "Blast the Right" constantly drills this point home. He has codified this view:

Everything the right-wing does is designed to accomplish one of two things, either:

(a) transfer wealth from everyone else to the rich, or,

(b) distract everyone else from the fact that (a) is occurring.

And all the other issues and causes, though they may be genuine, are used by those in power to accomplish either a or b.

***

Jack Clark - The Rational Radical

Home of the MUST LISTEN Podcast "Blast the Right"

http://www.therationalradical.com

You can subscribe to "Blast the Right" on iTunes or Podcast Alley, or download individual podcasts at the website.

:hug:sw

We argue over the crumbs we are tossed, while they feast on loaves and laugh at us.

Class Warfare.

"We argue over the crumbs we are tossed, while they feast on loaves and laugh at us."

Exactly!!!!

:hug: :loveya:
sw

:hug: :loveya:

The sad part of it all is how few see past the shiny keys.

Always a joy to talk to you, it has been far too long. :*

:D

Myself, I am far too gloomy to find refuge there. Just know that you are ever and always dear to me, and I cherish our friendship.

Wishing you all good things,
sw
:loveya:

You should check my journal and pop in sometime. ;)

You are such a dear, good friend. Your heart is a passionate one, and your mind speaks it well.

And as for gloomy, there are never overcast skies when we speak. :loveya:

Your Servant Ma'am.
Always.

I never expected my off-the-cuff OP get this much response. I just got a bug to post something last night, and with no forethought, really, my OP is what came out.

I've just finished reading every post in this thread, and as much as I'd love to answer each response individually, it would be a daunting and time-consuming task -- in truth, more than I can realistically take on.

To those for whom my OP rang true, I humbly thank you for your supportive responses. There is no one, I'm sure, who doesn't find pleasure in being agreed with -- especially by those DUers for whom one holds great respect and affection.

To those who found fault and disagreement with my OP, I appreciate your responses just as much. Because having one's ideas challenged and argued against is a great gift. You are the grit in the rock tumbler of critical thinking that serves to polish and bring out the best qualities of the rock being tumbled.

To the latter group I want to say: of course I'm aware of the racism, bigotry, ignorance, bullying, and ugliness of spirit of those who virulently hate everything we hold dear and true. There have always been small hateful minds who detest progess, who detest freedom, who detest kindness and compassion, who detest the evolution of human consciousness, who detest and deride anyone who does not share their small-minded beliefs.

That does not change the fact that they are USED by Owner class to further its own dominance. The hateful racist teabagger has absolutely NO power of his own. His power derives solely from the use that the Owner Class makes of him, to keep us divided and hating each other.

And when we turn our righteous anger toward these pitiful crippled spirits, we are only helping to accomplish the Owners' strategy of ramping up hatred and division to distract us from the over-arching Game of Owner dominance over every aspect of our lives.

The racists and bigots have NO power of their own -- they no more control the agenda of the Ruling Class than we do. It's a waste of energy to make them some sort of existential enemy. We need to look to beyond them to the face of the REAL enemy.

Fighting for true freedom means pulling back the curtain to reveal the faces of the REAL enemy. As long as we engage in the petty work of pointing out the mote in the bigot's eye, we are losing ground in the fight against those who actually wield the power to delude and abet the bigot -- plus distracting us from the beams in our own eyes. And if we are truly honest, we really do need to acknowledge our own "beams".

Angry right wing populism is being exploited by those whose appetite for power and control is boundless. All I'm really saying is that we need to look beyond the mindless puppets, and understand that the REAL enemies are those who are manipulating the puppets' strings.

sw

I can't help but love someone with Frida as her avatar! :D

Peace,
sw

As for Frida, I believe she would have, wholeheartedly, endorsed your writing.



:pals:

I'm sure someone like MLK Jr. would agree, we must address hatred with love, and falsehood with truth.
I know it seems impossible, but there really is no other way.

Well done and peace to you.:thumbsup: :hi:

It means a lot to me, because I've been really impressed by your own posts.

Peace to you, too!

:hi:
sw

read you original and some of the other replies until here...

i generally agree that there DOES NOT need to be divisions among americans that feel that they are getting screwed by owners

BUT

the left is still the closest to the truth, and the people we need to convince need to hear that.

the reason we know and focus on 'owners' or 'exploiters' are because of a leftist tradition of thought that is Materialism -- that what we have in our life is the result of ownership, control, and the transfer of ownership between minorities. our traditions of thought start with the american and french revolution and goes farther to question the levels of control that exist without monarchies. the 'teabaggers' and the gop hardliners refuse to realize that.

leftist political theory is about focusing on ownership and production, but has failed in terms of fixing the inequalities that persist in the face of it. that doesnt mean we should cede to the opposite.

And I completely agree that we should NOT "cede to the opposite".

I'm simply advocating that we keep our eye on who the real enemy is, and not give ourselves over to the base reptilian pleasure of hatred for those of our own class who are just as victimized as we are -- for all that they are totally clueless as to the true source of their oppression.

We may not be able to bring them around to seeing the world as we see it, however, we waste effort and energy by beating on them when they are just as disempowered as we are.

sw

Nailed it.

Be a real American Stand for something that makes a difference.
NOW
Don't pay your tarp bill over 100K this year alone
Be brave quit paying taxes!
Your born here so you owe someone who gives it back to someone that doesn't need it to eat.

A real Hero stands for whats right and paying taxes is so close to morally wrong???
If it was a fair system you wouldn't need a preparer.
Just like you credit card bill you need to learn the LAW speak to even understand how they are stealing from you.

Save Freedom

Check this out http://www.democracynow.org/2010/2/5/how_to_get_our_democracy_back">No change until we change Congress
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/2/5/how_to_get_our_democracy_back

Don't stop voting just because it hasn't worked for 30 yrs.
JUST STOP GIVING money to the ones couldn't care less if you live or die unless you are paying them.
If you see it advertised on ABC NBC MSNBC FOX Don't buy it period.

Think about it

Poppy's "read my lips, no new taxes", to every anti-tax fool. See, I don't mind paying taxes. I love to drive on public roads, love my library, love public education. I like the idea that we take care of our own. Some act as if the government is separated from the individual--but the government is part of every american. I like paying taxes so that I can still visit beautiful scenic public lands without seeing corporate scars in pristine areas. With *'s less taxes, especially towards his buddies, we've seen a decline of our infrastructure. And, since he privatized some of the services in the military, he put our soldiers lives further at risk for his corporate buddies' greed. Do I want to see more and more government responsibilities handed over to for-profit greedy corporations? NO! Because in the long run, I'll probably have to pay more to those corporations without any REPRESENTATION, than if I paid taxes.

Now, one thing I dream of (pipe dream) is that at the end of the year I'm given a form to fill out to show where I want my taxes to go. Let's see-10% defense, 50% social programs, 35% infrastructure, 5% administration. Now, I'm sure other people may balance out my lower percentage areas because of their priorities. Unfortunately, our government doesn't allow us to designate where our money goes.

This thread helps restore some real hope to me...Thanks!! :yourock:

There HAS to be hope when there are people who still work hard at looking for the truth, yes?

Truth is never easy -- but easy isn't the same as simple. And I do believe that truth is, at its heart, simple.

:hug:
sw

:pals:

AND there are owners and everyone else.

The left has the answers, proven by successful revolutions and egalitarian changes. Equality and power to "everyone else" are fundamental to the left.

Sorry, but I call B.S. here.

If we follow the above thesis, we are powerless. We have nothing according to the OP: no ownership, no ideas, "EVERYONE falls into the same trap", "No one is immune", "just as gleeful in our hatred", etc., etc., etc.

What is this, the first step in the "Who stole my cheese" Twelve Step Program: First, you must acknowledge that you are powerless and require a higher being?

No, there are those who would be "brown-shirts" and there are those who would not.

There is a reason why the Nazi's, Mussolini, the Bolsheviks, Arab Kingdoms, South American Dictatorships, etc., ALL go after the liberals first.

We are NOT sheep, we are NOT powerless, and we are NOT "just as bad as everyone else".

OK?

Your take-away from my OP seems to be that we're "just as bad as everyone else".

I must respectfully submit that I think you have misunderstood my meaning. I merely sought to point out that our real enemy is not some ignorant teabagger hoisting a misspelled racist protest sign.

Our real enemy is the Owner Class who grows ever stronger while we peasants fight against each other, instead of fighting against the true oppressors of all of us.

sw

I can neither discuss nor argue with "your meaning", only what you wrote. Also, while your post #146 is a thoughtful response to other posts, I do not see how it addresses the fundamental points of mine.

What you said is:

-------------
To the latter group I want to say: of course I'm aware of the racism, bigotry, ignorance, bullying, and ugliness of spirit of those who virulently hate everything we hold dear and true. There have always been small hateful minds who detest progess, who detest freedom, who detest kindness and compassion, who detest the evolution of human consciousness, who detest and deride anyone who does not share their small-minded beliefs.

That does not change the fact that they are USED by Owner class to further its own dominance. The hateful racist teabagger has absolutely NO power of his own. His power derives solely from the use that the Owner Class makes of him, to keep us divided and hating each other.

And when we turn our righteous anger toward these pitiful crippled spirits, we are only helping to accomplish the Owners' strategy of ramping up hatred and division to distract us from the over-arching Game of Owner dominance over every aspect of our lives.

The racists and bigots have NO power of their own -- they no more control the agenda of the Ruling Class than we do. It's a waste of energy to make them some sort of existential enemy. We need to look to beyond them to the face of the REAL enemy.

Fighting for true freedom means pulling back the curtain to reveal the faces of the REAL enemy. As long as we engage in the petty work of pointing out the mote in the bigot's eye, we are losing ground in the fight against those who actually wield the power to delude and abet the bigot -- plus distracting us from the beams in our own eyes. And if we are truly honest, we really do need to acknowledge our own "beams".

Angry right wing populism is being exploited by those whose appetite for power and control is boundless. All I'm really saying is that we need to look beyond the mindless puppets, and understand that the REAL enemies are those who are manipulating the puppets' strings.
-------------

It seems that you are arguing

1. "pulling back the curtain to reveal the faces of the REAL enemy"
2. We should not bother with the "waste of energy" that is to "turn our righteous anger toward these pitiful crippled spirits"
3. "The hateful racist teabagger has absolutely NO power of his own", i.e., they are just as fooled and powerless as we.

You see my point? Although presented rather harshly in my post because I am fed up with so much defeatism around here, it is the primary thing I kept repeating.

We are not SO fooled, we are not SO powerless before "their" deception and puppet-master ability, and we DO have the right ideas.

Yes, progress takes time, is very difficult work, quite often unrewarding, but the only thing worth really doing.

Deciding that the "right" is just as deluded as we are is placing them on equal footing. I do not accept that.

And, yes, it was not just your comment "just as bad as everyone else", but the entire theme, including the title of your post, that truly rubbed me the wrong way.

It is not a time of despair, not a time to say we are just like everyone else in this if it means placing fundamental beliefs about liberalism and right and wrong on an equal footing with the "right".

It is a time to draw renewed strength from those ideas and success (yes, progress) in our own past and others throughout history.

It is NOT a time to say we are all in this together because we are all simply being played to fool and are just like them.

And finally, when it really all comes down, "they" just want a piece of the action, are fully committed to what "the owners" are trying to do because they would be just the same and want to be, if they can just get their piece of the pie.

And, they will defend that possibility (of making it) to the grave, even if it means almost everyone else gets screwed.

the human spirit doesn't go unnoticed.

Bravo!!

lays it out pretty well. Of course, there are right wingers among us. But they are still pawns of the owners. They have been manipulated by fairy tales of Horatio Alger and the American Dream. They are no better off than we are and no more able to change the system than we are. They just don't realize who the real enemy is. All part of what keeps the owners in power and us enslaved. Fight amongst ourselves, get distracted by political differences, and the owners stay right where they are with no threat at all to their power and control of us.

at every opportunity.

I'm kinda serious--I just ordered a couple of the more recent NLP technique books from Amazon. I studied that stuff many years ago when I took some Ericksonian hypnosis courses, just after I got my shrink's license.

Of course, I'm just a crazy old hippie with no academic credentials whatsoever.

I do sincerely believe, however, that there IS a way to reach into most people's hearts and minds, if the effort is directed with the right techniques.

I rebel against the idea that any sentient being is expendable and dismissable. If we are not willing to model our ideals of human beingness, what good can we do?

sw

I think Icke was right in a metaphorical sort of way. Even though he comes across as nuttier than almond brittle.

Our problems arise when we give in to our reptilian -- fight or flight -- brain, instead of making use of our delightful and discerning frontal cortex.

Plus, there's the whole problem of literalists vs. symbologists. I must admit, one of my guilty amusements on DU is observing all the literalists getting their panties in a twist over what is obviously (to me) a metaphoric or figurative presentation.

Oh well. It appears we are all cursed to debate trivialities until we all perish for want of rising above our lizard brains.

*sigh*
sw

In today's corporate dominated world the argument is more or less "better feed on the scraps we give you than nothing at all if those socialists get there way"! Another variation is "you can be rich too- just keep trying and you will get there"!

It's all about getting people to fear what they don't understand and to keep believing in the myth.

They (the moneyed elite) had an ad on the Super Bowl about abortion/choice and pro life with one mission only......to stir up a hornets' nest and deflect the huddled masses from thinking about how badly the Wall Street bankers in collusion with the Federal Reserve are screwing America and stealing our nation blind.

Here is an example. WARNING: Do not watch it if you have high blood pressure.

http://www.thinkbigworksmall.com/mypage/player/tbws/23088/1551091

We've been saying the very same thing for quite a long time now. I only wish the rest of the citizens would stop letting themselves be used. Enough is enough. Thanks for posting the wake up call.

inclusion into the Ownership section. They call themselves nutsoakers. :D

That's why we have titles of nobility, limit the rights of the working class and mandate religion.

Oh sorry, I thought I was posting this into 16th century England. My bad.

CEO, CFO, Senator, President, Chairman of the Board....

Limit the rights of the Working Class?
LOL
How much can YOU pay for a "mouthpiece" that can put you on the elite level in a Courtroom?
You DO know that some rich War Criminals and War Profiteers will NEVER see justice.
White Collar criminals who have stolen BILLIONS will NEVER see the same level of penalties as a poor man who sells a rock of cocaine.

It was very painfully demonstrated that Corporations and Lobbyists have a much louder voice in writing legislation than the MAJORITY of Working Class who favor a Public Option.

Do you really believe that someone who Works for a Living has the same rights and protections as a member of the Ownership Class in the USA today?

Mandate Religion
Our Congress is near mandating the every American pay a yearly cash tribute to Health Insurance Corporations. The "$" is the only real religion that the US has ever known, and this mandatory tithe is only one example.

I could go on.

K&R

what I meant.

Your K&R is much appreciated.

:)
sw

...because the of the role of The Church in putting down the revolts, and also the rich princes who used them and benefited by it all. Those princes then, are little different than the Titans of Wall Street today, other than the fact that they're pansies with no guts for fighting. You might also like to check out this Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peasants%27_War">Link on the subject. ;)



- And you'll see that little has changed. Either way, we're still being used....

George Carlin had a way of saying in few words what many of us think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JChUO4TLjnY

However, I reserve the right to mock my fellow morans in addition to the soulless, sociopathic elite.

I would deny you nothing! Mock whomever you wish! You do it so wonderfully well!

:hug::loveya:
sw

:hug:

Ok, then I mock myself as usual.

That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes."

:D

:hug:
sw

... absolutely correct.