Want Passionate Kids? Leave 'em Alone

By Michael Torrice, LiveScience Contributor
posted: 09 February 2010 08:08 am ET

Parents who want their children to discover a passion for music, sports, or other hobbies should follow a simple plan: Don't pressure them.

By allowing kids to explore activities on their own, parents not only help children pinpoint the pursuit that fits them best, but they can also prevent young minds from obsessing over an activity, a new study finds.

"Passion comes from a special fit between an activity and a person," said Geneviève Mageau, a psychology professor at the University of Montreal. "You can't force that fit; it has to be found."

The study focused on what psychologists call autonomy, the basic need to feel like you're acting based on your own values and desires, not those of others. Controlling parents chip away at their child's autonomy, by pushing them into a hobby, the researchers say. So when the kid picks up his clarinet it's not out of a desire to play music, but due to a sense of obligation or a fear of disappointing his parents, according to Mageau.

more:

http://www.livescience.com/culture/children-passions-autonomy-100209.html

felt by many kids and teens regarding activities that they are not immediately successful at.

(we) who notoriously feel they have to compensate for the family's situation by excelling and who in general have a hard time with autonomy growing up. Lots of those in the arts. In fact, I would think you could make the case that excelling in the arts begins as a self-soothing, repetitive activity -- sketching, playing, whatever -- that comfortable confident children wouldn't necessarily need. :shrug:

extra curricular time was theirs. i had my demand. respect, kindness and intellectual growth. though i wanted them to become passionate about an activity and always provided the opportunity, they never had much of interest. i was bothered by it but allowed them to make the choice. rule was, you do it without me nagging, or dont do it. they were choosing not to do it.

well

about 8th grade my son found his in sport. and it is giving him the opportunities i wanted him to experience in having a "passion and dedication" for something. and i am seeing the youngest come along. not there yet, but he is in 6th grade.

so i might have done something right, without trying

then again, brother having such issue with 17 yr old daughter about this very subject. two hour friggin conversation about this last night. what a waste of my time. anything, he says. he just want her to do anything. but the harsh demand, and insistence of it over the years has been a turn off for her.

i hear what he is saying and wanting, but not gonna get it either.

Seems whatever I got interested in, from being in a church choir to Junior Achievement to joining a drill team/drum corps, she would eventually obsess over it and make it a whole lot of NOT fun anymore. If, say, I didn't want to go to drum corps practice one week, she would actually punish me by making me stay in the house.

Even school became more about seeing how "perfect" my attendance could be. When she failed with me and two of my younger sisters and a brother, she tried double hard on the last remaining sibling. OMG!!!! PERFECT ATTENDANCE through High School!!!

Like that somehow validated her worth as a parent or something...I never really understood it.

I was just thinking about all of this yesterday, in fact (for like the hundredth time)...how some things were obsessed over, and other things were just outright laughed at...not only by my mom, but by various men I got involved with. My ideas for doing something with my life were always "stupid", and so I never did them.

Now I'm sorry, and kicking myself for not having the guts enough to do what I wanted to do.

In some ways my mom was opposite of yours. She didn't obsess about anything because I was the youngest of eleven. She barely even noticed if I showed an interest in something, really. But the derision/indifference over things I actually made special mention of being interested in doing was really hard to take. If any of my ten siblings had ever taken a lesson in something and later changed their minds, then that meant she wasn't going to bother letting me do it because it was just going to be a waste of time and money. She was too afraid to drive so if it was something to which I'd need a ride and it was before my dad got home from work then that was out of the question as well.

Basically if it was something in walking distance (I wasn't allowed to ride my bike out of the neighborhood), that was free, that I could completely manage myself and didn't inconvenience her in any way, then I might be allowed to do it. But how many kids activities in the suburbs are free and require no parental involvement?

I grew up with very controlling parents. They didn't want me to have anything for myself. So, when I
did get involved in something--they made it about THEM. So, of course, I lost interest.

Like you--attendance and outward appearances were extremely important. I was supposed to make them look
good.

Whenever I tried to stretch my wings or get involved in something--I was ridiculed, especially if they
knew very little about the activity or interest. If they couldn't control it--they laughed at me or
engaged in verbal abuse that was intended to make me give up the interest or activity. Of course, I
always did. Parents have an almost magical influence over their children. They make you feel like
crap, and you assume that you are wrong or bad--and that they are right.

I have a lot of unrealized dreams too. However, I have learned to shed their nonsense. It really
is a process, because those, "You can't do that!" and "What are you doing?" messages have been
ingrained. I'm learning to shed that though. I'm also learning that they way my parents behaved
had NOTHING to do with me and my abilities. It was about their own hang ups and dysfunction.

I don't know if that fits for you, but I thought I'd share some of my stuff. It can be overcome...
but it does take time.

http://leb.net/~mira/works/prophet/prophet4.html


"Your children are not your children.

They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself. . .

You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.

The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite, and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far. . ."

But in my childhood I was forced to take piano and violin lessons, and thus hated both instruments until later in life. So really, I'm not sure how my parent's decisions affected me, because I'm still a music lover. I just hated lessons. However, if I had never been forced to take violin lessons I wouldn't be able to play the violin well today.

Damn you and thank you Mom. :D

I was a pretty good player in my time, but whatever talent I had is magnified many times in my daughter. She has some in born talent for the clarinet that just can't be taught.

Supporting her growing skills yet not pressuring her too much is something I constantly struggle with. Although she's talented, she is still only 13yo and has the emotional needs of a 13yo. Recently, she was supposed to participate in a competition, but it became clear about 2 weeks before the date she didn't want to, that she didn't have the emotional fortitude to withstand the harsh judges for which this competition is known. I had to delicately give her an "out" - so that she could withdraw from the competition and not feel like she'd disappointed me or her teacher. It was a tough call to know whether I should encourage her to persevere or if I should let her withdraw, but I think I made the right decision for her needs.

There are parents around here who push their kids incredibly hard. I see it in other middle school clarinet players all the time. They are pushed so hard by their parents, they lose the joy of the music, and it shows in their playing. Yes, technically they are very good, but the music they play has no heart, no passion. So, the parents that push their kids so hard actually end up having it backfire, in my opinion.

there will always be something, soemwhere, down the road

I recall the many times we were given assignments to do (in grammar school) and I would get one with minor corrections I had to make and then the teacher would have displayed it on the cork board of honor with the rest of the really good ones.

Well, I never did correct them and hand them back.

I was always suspicious...maybe testing the teacher...because I was sure my work wasn't all that good. Almost like I was saying, OK...if it's really that good, the teacher will remember it and prod me a bit to correct and return it. She always remembered this or that...let's see if she remembers what she said about putting my work on the bulletin board.

Well, it never happened. Being a child, it didn't occur to me that perhaps the teacher just would not remember because of all the other things that teachers have to do.

No...I saw it as just another incident where someone SAID my work was good, but didn't really mean it.


I don't know which one of us I resented more...the teacher whom I thought had lied to me, or myself for being such a failure.

And it was all so needless, based on my own shitty opinion of myself.

but i still remember

i had crosses to bare with it easy. as do my kids. but i also tell them, that though their life is easy, their cross to bare is as important to them as the cross that another bares that have much rougher life.

i also assure them that i am not and will not be perfect. cannot be done. the best i can do is be percectly imperfect.

we do the best we can as parents even if it is a damn poor job. it really is the persons to address as they get older, put in its place, even if it is a hug to the little girl in us in pain or want. i spent my 20's resolving issues from childhood. worked for me. allowed me to start another chapter in life. some dont and carry it with them forever, effecting choices in life thru out. opportunities continually given over and over to resolve....

I always tell my kids that I don't care what activities they choose to do. Except for when they were younger I made sure they had swimming lessons in the summers. Once they reached the point they could swim on their own safely, I stopped requiring swimming lessons (this was a big safety issue for me).
I'm also making them take 2 years of piano. Then they can choose whether to continue piano, learn another instrument of their choice, or take no music lessons. I believe strongly that piano is a great foundation for music and that any child can live through 2 years of it.
The only other thing I tell them is that once they commit to something (eg a team sport or to dance in a group in a recital), they should carry out that commitment. I let my son choose whether to play spring baseball. I told him it was completely up to him, but if he played he had to practice and play with a good attitude and to try hard.

It's interesting. One of my kids likes everything, and the challenge is to help her not be overscheduled. One of my other kids only likes a few things. I try to encourage him to try new things. I'll admit there have a been a few times I've pushed him to do a particular activity. But even then, it's a very short time period (eg a one-week half-day summer camp).

My husband and his siblings were forced hard into some activities. One of his siblings is a gifted musician who grew to hate it so much he almost never picks up the instrument anymore. Very sad.

find out what they love and then throw all of your energy and money into letting *them* achieve that dream (not mom and dad vicariously living through their successes and failures). Teach them that failure is on the road to success; it means one door closes and another one opens, even if a dream changes mid-stream.

Our kids are 18 (senior in high school), 17, 13 and 12. We are strong believers in LOTS of free time to pursue what they love, with a healthy dose of schoolwork and housework mixed in.

I also agree that you can't force a kid to like something, but at times it's good to encourage shy kids to try something new so they'll broaden their horizens, within reason. When they begin to find their feet, step back and let them go. Also, I think that parents try too hard to soften or even eliminate the blows of failure which cheats a child (no matter what age) of learning by natural consequences. Coddling children only delays their growing up and learning to adapt on their own in a nasty world. Like Wanka Sykes says, "Life will fuck you up!" It's better for a kid to learn how to handle real failure at home in the company of a loving family than out on their own with no one around.

and sometimes it looks like they have no idea how to structure their own time or how to just relax. Their mom needs her own hobby, imo.

that they aren't 'doing enough' if they allow kids to have unstructured time. Kids need to also know their self-worth is wrapped up in their character, not their busy schedules.

all the time.

I didn't think it was possible because we were very low income when my kids were very young, both worked fulltime plus and did everything else ourselves, ie, cooking, cleaning, repairing, etc. My ex and I were sleep deprived for years. lol

But what I see going on in my bro's family just seems like a different order of magnitude. And the youngest of the girls is just hitting puberty. Geeze.

A lot of music requires hard work and dedication on the part of the talented student. Turning talent into skill and proficiency is the job of parents and teachers. Keeping kids motivated through the dregs of learning difficult instruments is not always a self-discovering kind of activity. it is plain ugly hard work.

Particularly for young elementary school age kids...

case in point...my daughter (now 20) began playing violin in 4th grade. She first liked it then hated it but thanks to our prodding and encouragement and a wonderful teacher she took to it and found the sound in the violin.

In middle school she was encouraged to switch to cello...she did and embraced the challenge. At the same time she started following in my footsteps of playing guitar. I was in a rehearsing and performing bands throughout her childhood she was always surrounded by instruments. I KNEW as a string instrument player that the discipline of learning a violin early would open the door to a wide variety of string instruments.

She ended her cello career taking top honors in state contests in High School and focused on vocal and guitar. She is now a lively entertaining guitar/ukulele singer songwriter playing gigs and going to college and singing in various choral groups.

Her exploration of music and success is because we made her stick with violin and cello. She made move into a different art form in late HS and it was her choice...(though I will always miss the rich sound of the cello during practice)

Young kids will discover music if they have the talent. Fostering and guiding that talent into a lifelong skill is something that parents and teachers can make happen. It takes kid gloves...and a lot of trial and error...and the willingness to make mistakes as much as the willingness to succeed.