For extra cautious Toyota driver, a high-speed death

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6183UL20100209?loomia_ow=t0:s0:a49:g43:r1:c0.152355:b30400600:z0

===So afraid was Guadalupe Alberto of driving fast that she steadfastly avoided freeways, her family says.

"And she never passed a car, even if she was following someone going five miles-per-hour," said her daughter, Lilia "Lupe" Alberto. "She'd stay right behind them."

Somehow on a Saturday afternoon in April 2008, the 77-year-old grandmother with an aversion to fast driving was killed when her 2005 Toyota Camry suddenly accelerated out of control on her quiet neighborhood street.

Alberto's Camry sped past other cars, zoomed through the busy four-lane Ballenger Highway, and hit 80 miles per hour before it clipped a tree, went airborne and struck another tree on Copeman Boulevard, only four blocks away from her home, according to her family and a pending lawsuit against Toyota Motor Corp.===

more at the link.

RIP ma'am

An off duty California highway patrolman was in a loaner from the dealer when it stuck, and the family called 911 that recorded the family's last seconds as the car sped up to 125 before it crashed and killed 4 members of the family.

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/americas/familys-toyota-deathcrash-call-released-2045189.html

THE final moments of a family killed in a car crash apparently caused by a faulty accelerator on a Toyota vehicle have been made public as lawyers challenge the company's safety record.

Four members of the same family died in a hired Lexus that allegedly accelerated out of control. Mark Saylor (45) an off-duty California highway patrolman, died last August along with his wife Cleofe (45), daughter Mahala (13) and Mrs Saylor's brother Chris Lastrella.

In a 911 emergency call made from the car just before the crash, Mr Lastrella is heard saying: "We're in a Lexus . . . and we're going north on 125 and our accelerator is stuck . . . we're in trouble . . . there's no brakes . . . we're approaching the intersection . . . hold on . . . hold on and pray . . . pray."

Tim Pestotnik, a lawyer acting for Mr Saylor, said the Lexus, Toyota's luxury brand, had been loaned to the family while their own car was being repaired.

"The same car had been loaned to another person three days earlier. They brought it back and complained about the accelerator sticking," he said.

He questioned Toyota's claim that it had found a "simple and durable" fix for the problems that have led to thousands of accidents and 19 deaths.

told the dealer that the gas peddle was sticking.

For that driver. If one of the passengers had the presence of mind to call 911, surely they thought of the obvious solution.

There still seem to be mysteries around this whole situation. I, for one, am betting the big fix they are doing is not actually going to do it. It will just buy them a couple of years to figure out why the electronic system is causing sudden acceleration.

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/oct/18/business/fi-toyota-recall18

It appears it's hard to find the neutral position on the type of shifter in that particular model of Lexus. The other odd thing was that Toyota people didn't seem to understand what neutral was used for (according to the article.) I guess they've never had to push a dead car in their lives...

I can't find the story now, but I do recall there were witness accounts that said fire was coming from the wheels, indicating the brakes were likely on fire from being used. I'm guessing Mr. Saylor was literally standing on the brakes to achieve that, and it still wasn't doing any good.

Yeah, the article says: "The Saylor crash and others like it across the country, they say, point to a troubling possibility: that Toyota's ignition, transmission and braking systems may make it difficult for drivers to combat sudden or unintended accelerations and safely recover, regardless of their cause."

I really can't fathom not trying the obvious. I, for one, tend to go into an automatic mode in a driving crisis. I am calm and do what has to be done - then freak out afterwards - lol.

although I can't say I'm all that calm during the situation. Tense, definitely, while trying to control what I can, but wouldn't call that "calm" ;)

However, it is said that Saylor was highly trained in emergency driving situations. I would expect him to have done the same thing, try to go into neutral and so on. We also don't know how much he prepared himself before driving the loaner off the lot, like reading the manual and so on. Probably not, since most people assume the basic functions of their cars are, well, pretty basic most of the time. Anything you can't figure out just by looking at the system means you better read the manual.

I don't really like the idea of keyless ignition, myself. It seems like it sets itself up for more problems than it's worth, and all of it mostly for convenience than safety or "security".

I'm a pilot and the bottom line is that it doesn't matter what happens it's your butt in the seat; deal with it.

in many cars....Not a good idea... Jamming it into neutral, if possible would be the only viable solution.

but the same thing happens if you break that belt. However, even without the power assist they work.

If you choose to die, it's your choice.

I am NOT WRONG...Killing the ignition is the more risky option. Putting in neutral and breaking to a stop is what Toyota is recommending.

lose - win

:eyes:

Everyone should be prepared for their car to take off at breakneck speed at any time, right?

click the key to the proper position. In some cars, the steering won't lock until the key is actually removed, in others, there is an "off" position in addition to the "lock" position.

But when you're panicking, you don't think about that. Same thing with "neutral," and with some people apparently not knowing what "N" is for, that's yet another issue. Another thing people may not realize about the power steering that's been standard in nearly every car for decades is that you DO NOT "lose your steering" if you turn off the engine. You lose your power assistance, so the wheel will feel heavy, but you will still be able to steer. Also, the brakes will have enough residual vacuum assist "left over" to stop you quite easily one time, as long as you're smooth and don't pump the brakes. After the vacuum assist is used up, the brakes will be EXTREMELY stiff, but they will still be able stop the car if your feet provide the pressure.

I've had an old car with a carburetor stick open--pulling away from a light in traffic! It was extremely scary for about a second, and I was on the verge of panic. Luckily, it was a stick shift and I just pushed the clutch in. That of course left the engine racing, and I didn't want to destroy the engine, so I fumbled to turn off the key. Of course, I had to be mindful to only turn it one click, so it wouldn't lock the steering. I coasted to the side, un-stuck the throttle linkage as much as possible, and drove carefully home.

When I got home, pretty much doused the carb in carb solvent, and then gave it a spritz of WD-40. It was fine until I junked that car maybe a year later, but I was prepared in my mind for the next time it happened. I also stopped letting my sister borrow that car, because I didn't know how she might react if it happened to her.

This kind of thing should be taught in drivers ed, and maybe even simulated by the instructor in a parking lot. It's happened before, not just to Toyotas, and it's going to happen again, simply because all mechanical things will eventually fail if they're used long enough. If it happens once (simulated in drivers ed), and you make it out alive (by turning the key to the proper NON-lock position), you'll know exactly what to do if it happens in real life.

There are lots of vehicle basics that I think should be taught in drivers ed, because I believe that the operator of such an incredibly complex machine as a car or truck has a certain responsibility to know more than "accelerator's on the right, brake's on the left, gasoline goes here." Things like "this red light with the oil can, and this red light with the thermometer," mean pull over and shut off the engine now. (Maybe those lights should just say "$3,500!") And "this red light with the battery" means get off the freeway, but you can drive it till the engine stalls with little consequence--bonus points for making to your mechanic, and double bonus if you actually coasted into the lot.

New drivers need a full repertoire of responses, not just steer, accelerate, brake.

Anyway, many are too busy texting to care. :(

---

differences in standards. Also, drivers should be schooled in cooperative driving and safety principles. I am horrified at the drivers I see -- changing three lanes at once, tailgating, failure to use turn signals, cutting off busses... don't even get me started.

speed)

Manually downshifting will help too.
I can't think of anything that will break a hundred in first gear.
You'll probably blow the engine out, but you'll stop accelerating.

I have been driving a 2009 for the last two days and have had several '08's and '09's as loaners. I haven't had the sticking problem but they all use the fob so there is no key. And you can't turn it off unless it's in park. Back in 1977 I had a Buick Opel that did the same thing. The first time it happened I hit the brake and it wouldn't stop. I finally pushed the shifter to neutral and pulled over to the shoulder. I don't understand why they didn't but there is no telling what is going through a person's mind when they are panicking in a situation like that. So sad.

repeatedly hit that button but to activate it requires you to keep it depressed for 5 seconds.


I expect that a CHP officer knew to try to put it into neutral, wonder if it was inactive at the high speed?

I mean, shit, can't corporations be fucking responsible for ANYTHING. Is there ANYTHING that's not the fault of the American worker and consumer?

At the same time, people should educate themselves about how their car works, otherwise they won't know what to do in dangerous situations.

It *should* be common knowledge that in such an instance the driver should put the car in neutral and pull to the side.

And yes, slowing to a stop on a highway is much safer than letting your car accelerate out of control.

woman.

she did deal with it. she died. feeling better now, big, bad, tough dude.

should never, EVER be allowed behind the wheel of a motor vehicle. If normal driving tasks overwhelm them so much any emergency situation they find themselves in is going to result in a crash.

This person had absolutely no fucking business operating a car, Toyota or otherwise. It infuriates me that a person that petrified by the simple act of driving is being paraded as "cautious" or as some paragon of responsible driving. She was an accident waiting to happen.

slow way down and become hyper cautious.... Perhaps the description of the woman exaggerated a bit, but I suspect she was no different that countless thousands of increasingly cautious older people, many who can continue to drive safely for many years--even if they annoy more impatient younger drivers, while doing so.

is by definition unsafe. They are not "driving safely".

I have had to deal with this with an aging grandmother and I have thus researched it a great deal. I don't know if you mean to be offensive, but you are. You should educate yourself. The line between safe and unsafe doesn't begin at age 30.

that automatically accelerated to 80 m.p.h. due to a computer failure. God forbid some elderly person uses backstreets to drive their car to the pharmacy to pick up their meds. They probably don't have the lightening reflexes needed to stop their recalled, shoddy Toyota that goes beserk and accelerates to 80 mph for no reason. :sarcasm:

But something was going to happen anyway with this person. People who are frightened to drive in NORMAL conditions are inherently incapable of driving in any sort of hazardous or emrgency condition.

over the years, it has evolved to, we need patience with the mom and a couple kids in back seat fighting, the people with work on their mind and the stupid.... lol lol

tootling slowly and carefully down the two streets that took her to her store. I'd rather encounter her type on the highway than the usual arrogant dangerous speeding jackasses (usually between ages 20-40). Lay off the poor old lady.