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Deadly Child Abuse Case Linked To "Biblical Chastisement" (1 child dead, 2nd in critical condition)

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Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 01:45 AM
Original message
Deadly Child Abuse Case Linked To "Biblical Chastisement" (1 child dead, 2nd in critical condition)
Edited on Wed Feb-17-10 01:51 AM by Shallah Kali
http://www.khsltv.com/content/localnews/story/DA-Deadly-Child-Abuse-Case-Linked-To-Biblical/v9e-rmj-dk6t5b2Dx8U_gA.cspx

Authorities now believe that murder suspects Kevin and Elizabeth Schatz were followers of a extremist Christian group that advocates hitting children.

snip

After speaking with the Schatz' other children investigators were led to No Greater Joy Ministries, a Tennessee based faith group that espouses spanking as a necessary part of "training" one's child.

The Ministries' web site details how hard and on which part of the body a child should be hit. It also describes a 1/4 inch plumber's supply line as an ideal "spanking instrument".

The Schatz are accused of using that exact type of supply line to beat their two adopted children so severely that one died and the other remains in intensive care.


DA links fundamentalist "training" to Paradise girl's death http://www.chicoer.com/news/ci_14388171

The Schatzes were arrested Saturday morning after their adopted daughter, Lydia, age 7, stopped breathing. She was subsequently pronounced dead.

Her 11-year-old sister, Zariah Schatz, remains in critical condition at a Sacramento children's hospital, though she is showing some signs of recovery. The two were adopted at the same time with an infant girl, now 3, from the same African orphanage about three years ago,

Prosecutors allege the two victims were subjected to "hours" of corporal punishment by their parents on successive days last Thursday and Friday with a quarter-inch-wide length of rubber or plastic tubing, which police reportedly recovered from the parents' bedroom.

Police allege that the younger girl was being disciplined for mis-pronouncing a word during a home-school reading lesson the day before she died.

The two young girls reportedly sustained deep bruising and multiple "whip-like" marks on their back, buttocks and legs, which authorities believe resulted in significant muscle tissue breakdown that impaired their kidneys and possibly other vital organs, said Ramsey.


To Train Up A Child (Paperback) ~ Michael Pearl Debi Pearl http://www.amazon.com/Train-Up-Child-Michael-Pearl/dp/1892112000

Stop the Rod Reviews ' "To Train Up a Child" by Michael and Debi Pearl
http://www.stoptherod.net/ttuac.html

1) The Pearls recommend whipping infants only a few months old on their bare skin. They describe whipping their own 4 month old daughter (p.9). They recommend whipping the bare skin of "every child" (p.2) for "Christians and non-Christians" (p.5) and for "every transgression" (p.1). Parents who don't whip their babies into complete submission are portrayed as indifferent, lazy, careless and neglectful (p.19) and are "creating a Nazi" (p.45).

2) On p.60 they recommend whipping babies who cannot sleep and are crying, and to never allow them "to get up." On p.61 they recommend whipping a 12 month old girl for crying. On p.79 they recommend whipping a 7 month old for screaming.

3) On p.65 co-author Debi Pearl whips the bare leg of a 15 month old she is babysitting, 10 separate times, for not playing with something she tells him to play with. On p.56 Debi Pearl hits a 2 year old so hard "a karate chop like wheeze came from somewhere deep inside."

4) On p.44 they say not to let the child's crying while being hit to "cause you to lighten up on the intensity or duration of the spanking." On p.59 they recommend whipping a 3 year old until he is "totally broken."


Spare the quarter-inch plumbing supply line, spoil the child Saying no to "timeouts," some fundamentalist Christians "train up" their children by carefully hitting them with switches, PVC pipes and other "chastening instruments." http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2006/05/25/the_pearls/print.html

Spanking away sin Christian Century, May 1, 2007
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1058/is_9_124/ai_n19328433/


Recently I heard a mom at a soccer game proudly describe how she responded to her infant crying in his bed by "punishing and punishing" him. When I asked how one punishes a five-month-old child, she said that he was spanked in his crib. Spanking is nothing less than a mark of orthodoxy for followers of the Pearls, who deem it a necessary means of dealing with sin. They insist that parents who are faithful to Jesus need to hit their children.

snip

The Pearls compare children to stubborn animals: both have the same predictable responses to unpleasant stimuli. The book advocates a consistent behaviorism that involves switching a child's bare skin until the child's will is broken. The result? A model child who is completely compliant; a model parent who is a conqueror.

Children are prepared for "future, instant, unquestioning obedience." The authors advocate tempting an infant by putting an appealing object within reach and compare the object to the tree of knowledge in the Garden of Eden. (Putting a forbidden object outside a child's reach is considered a parental "display of weakness.") When the child reaches for the object, the parents lash the child. The suggested switch for a four-month-old child is a branch 12 inches long and an eighth of an inch wide. Rulers, belts and tree branches are recommended for older children. In the Pearls' world, crystal bowls, other breakable treasures and even loaded guns can be left around the house because curious toddlers can be trained to "complete and joyous subjection."

The Pearls portray parent and child as embroiled in a "competition of interest." Children are understood to be devious and self-centered. Normal childhood frustrations are understood as manipulative and self-indulgent assertions of a child's sinful nature. To Train Up a Child and similar (though less severe) books by Gary and Anne Marie Ezzo, James Dobson and Ted Tripp are a publicity nightmare for those who would rather not have Christians associated with the beating of kids. They also point to a theological mess.


More in general on religiously motivated child abuse:

Dominionism and child abuse, part 1 by dogemperor http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/13/370953/-Dominionism-and-child-abuse,-part-1

Dominionism and child abuse, part 2 http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/14/114136/732/786/371430

Dominionism and child abuse, part 3: Why they aren't in jail http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/15/17423/4121

FLOGGING FOR GOD: Violence toward children under the guise of religion http://nospank.net/floggers.htm

Stop the Rod http://stoptherod.net/

For Your Own Good: Hidden Cruelty in Child-Rearing and the Roots of Violence
by Alice Miller
http://www.nospank.net/fyog.htm
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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. strictly within the mainstream
of Dobsonism, WWASP, and dominionism
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 01:52 AM
Response to Original message
2. A spanking may be dysfunctional parenting
But you have described beatings. If we differentiated the two, maybe CPS would have time to prevent these murders.
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 02:03 AM
Response to Original message
3. I'll never forget the daily beatings I got at the Christian school I went to
up until 6th grade. It didn't work. I was going to be beaten about once a day no matter what I did or did not do anyhow. I just did what I wanted and took my beatings. It made me resent them though. It was pointless.
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appleannie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 02:04 AM
Response to Original message
4. The Bible I read states "Thou Shalt Not Kill" An eye for an eye. I know what their punishment
should be but thankfully we have a more just system.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 02:05 AM
Response to Original message
5. Creating the next generation of Eric Rudolphs and Timothy McVeighs
These people are simply sadists. They need to be put behind bars.
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 02:20 AM
Response to Original message
6. That is fucking evil.
I hope the remaining children are adopted by someone who will cherish them and that they can heal somewhat from this hellish warzone they were in. The disgusting swine who killed their sister should rot in jail forever. How do people like this get cleared to adopt? FFS.
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
21. International adoptions, probably through a Christian adoption agency.
These two are proof positive that claiming to be a good Christian really isn't relevant to whether they'll be good parents. I'd love to see how they were vetted for this adoption too. Adopting children from a different culture and hitting them when they don't pronounce English words correctly? These people are vile, sick, pathetic excuses for parents.
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xfundy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 02:25 AM
Response to Original message
7. I was punished
often by having to "go pick a switch" from a flowering bush in our backyard. Stupidly, I thought a green limb would be softer. Big mistake.

Then it was my father's belt when he got home from work. But never anything as cruel as what these abusers recommend. Children don't deserve this kind of shit, regardless of any stupid belief that they are "born of sin" or with "original sin."

"Sin," according to their twisted scriptures, is to be judged by "god" but they get such joy out of punishing "sinners" here on earth. Sick fucks.
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csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #7
25. That was how friends were treated when I was a kid
She'd be sent out to pick a switch. The older girl would do that and take the punishment, the younger just took off. At the age of eight she once camped out for most of a week to avoid a switching. By the time she came home, her mother was so grateful, the original beating was never performed. But the next time she took off, when she came back, she got such a beating she had to stay out of school for days.

I came from a family that did not believe in corporal punishment. Dad might have threatened it, but he never spanked us or hit us. He didn't need to - his "I am so disappointed in you" speeches were enough to keep us in line.

These people are sick and they are contributing to the sickness of our society. I hope we can find everyone who follows this "philosophy" of child raising and save their children from this treatment.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 02:49 AM
Response to Original message
8. This is one of the downsides to adoption that few ever talk about.
Adopted children are far more likely to be victims of physical and emotional abuse.
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angel823 Donating Member (151 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #8
24. sorry but
Edited on Wed Feb-17-10 02:37 PM by angel823
can you provide links to research that backs that statement up a bit? Not that I necessarily disagree, but I have adopted and I have many friends who have - I just don't see it anecdotally.
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BlueGirlRedState Donating Member (416 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #8
37. Your source?
I am the mom to two internationally adopted children. The families I know love their children beyond all reason.

BTW, friends of my in-laws gave us a similar book when we brought our second daughter home. I immediately threw it in the trash.
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Lyric Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 03:07 AM
Response to Original message
9. God help anyone who did that in front of me.
:grr:
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 06:37 AM
Response to Original message
10. Religion can cripple children both physically and psychologically
I was raised in a So. Baptist church in which my Sunday School teacher told us, among other hateful things, that when a baby cries it's a sin because the baby is selfishly only thinking of itself. She also told us that babies who do not know Jesus go to hell; this was not God's fault, she explained, but ours for not exposing infants everywhere to the gospel. Even as a child I realized not only was this was grossly unjust (my teacher did not appreciate being challenged), I wondered why anyone would choose to worship such a deity. To this day I have never forgotten her hate. I was only about eight at the time but that day I began my journey to freeing myself of religion. Unfortunately there are millions of kids every day who are being indocrinated to hate themselves and others in the name of their gods and whose lives will be irreparably damaged for it.

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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 07:00 AM
Response to Original message
11. I wonder if these parents were treated that way when they were children?
I'm ashamed of my urge to beat these people the way they beat defenseless children, this story enrages me.

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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 07:00 AM
Response to Original message
12. Dupe, self delete..
Edited on Wed Feb-17-10 07:01 AM by Fumesucker

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Sans Culottes Donating Member (95 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 07:02 AM
Response to Original message
13. K&R n/t
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Heywood J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
14. Hopefully the parents end up in San Quentin
Hell has a special place reserved for child abusers, and they should be given the opportunity to find out that Jesus doesn't approve beating children to death with plumbing instruments.

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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
15. I cannot print on DU what I think should be done to adults who do this to children
I would be banned from DU forever if I did.

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RedCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Most likely most of DU would be with you!
I cannot even imagine prescribed tortures. We let waterboarding go unpunished and these dick heads take it to a new "art" form and against the most helpless.
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
34. I can't, because I don't think I can imagine anything bad enough.
Evil bastards. :nuke:
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #15
35. I'm right there with ya!
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
17. You can leave a comment on Amazon about this book and similar ones. I'm in shock.
Jesus would weep.

Hekate

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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #17
47. He would do more than weep.
I believe JC said that "whosoever harms one of these little ones who believes in Me, better that person have a millstone hung around his neck and be drowned at sea" then have to explain his actions to God.

Where the hell can you buy millstones these days?
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. *That's* the verse that should be thrown in their miserable faces. Thanks for coming up with it....
Edited on Thu Feb-18-10 12:06 AM by Hekate
I think I was just too appalled to even remember it.

I just checked and Matthew, Mark, and Luke all have the quote attributed to Jesus. I use King James here.

Mark 9:42
And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

Matthew 18:6
But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Luke 17:2
It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

Hekate

edited to add verses
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Puzzler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
18. I don't believe for a second that this type of abuse is just about "disipline"...
Edited on Wed Feb-17-10 01:59 PM by Puzzler
... the obsession with constant spankings/beatings for even trivial reasons, looks like like a form of sado-sexual gratification on the part of the so-called parents/guardians.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #18
49. Thinkin you are on to something
Yep.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
19. And what will happen to this sect? nothing.
They will just say, "those parents took things too far".
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. Meanwhile, they'll fight tooth and nail...
... to keep loving GLBT people from adopting.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. Exactly, because...
Edited on Wed Feb-17-10 03:15 PM by Javaman
no one knows how to beat their kids like ultra right wing fringe fundimentalists.

These people need to go away.
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #27
40. I was thinking the same thing
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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
20. I hate people
Ok, so usually I don't, but WTF? Seriously? W.T.F.

F*ck them and their sadistic, disgusting concept of god.
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BreweryYardRat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
22. Mild -- a swat or two -- corporal punishment may be acceptable on rare occasions.
Edited on Wed Feb-17-10 02:26 PM by BreweryYardRat
Beating a child to death is never acceptable. Execute these "people." Slowly. With refinements.
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #22
33. but certainly not for mispronouncing a word.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
23. Throw away the keys but not before
someone gives both of them a taste of their own medicine
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LibertyLover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
26. As the mother of a child adopted internationally
and who is very much wanted and loved, I can't imagine beating her with anything. Don't think there haven't been times when I could have easily picked up a wooden spoon if one had been around because Lordy, can that child push buttons on occasion, but then I calm down and remember she is just a child. And I remember too how much she means to me. These religious types who push beating children for real or imagined transgressions are cruel and sick. And the people who blindly follow them are too. I would like to see the beaters get a taste of their own medicine so they can see how it feels.
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
28. Family values, my ass.
:banghead:
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Family Value$, Inc
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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
29. 2006 murder due to this book, too
Edited on Wed Feb-17-10 03:52 PM by mzteris
http://www.newsobserver.com/news/crime_safety/story/68172.html?storylink=misearch

"Dead child's mom sought discipline tips Lynn Paddock ordered books by a minister and his wife that recommended using pipe to spank kids

Mandy Locke, Staff Writer A few years ago, Lynn Paddock sought Christian advice on how to discipline her growing brood of adopted children.

Paddock -- a Johnston County mother accused of murdering Sean, her 4-year-old adopted son, and beating two other adopted children -- surfed the Internet, said her attorney, Michael Reece. She found literature by an evangelical minister and his wife who recommended using plumbing supply lines to spank misbehaving children.

Paddock ordered Michael and Debi Pearl's books and started spanking her adopted children as suggested. After Sean, the youngest of Paddock's six adopted children, died last month, his older sister and brother told investigators about Paddock's spankings . . .

The Pearls' advice from their Web site: A swift whack with the plastic tubing would sting but not bruise. Give 10 licks at a time, more if the child resists. Be careful about using it in front of others -- even at church; nosy neighbors might call social workers. . . Paddock seems to have carefully followed the Pearls' teachings. Investigators found 2-foot lengths of plumbing supply line in several rooms of her remote farmhouse."


edit - fix link. The other was the original and it was archived.
changed title a bit, too
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Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #29
55. Lynn Paddock is appealing her conviction
http://www.wral.com/news/news_briefs/story/6802691/

there are no words for people like these
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
30. "Children are prepared for "future, instant, unquestioning obedience."" = sicko bullshit
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
36. Am I reading this right? They killed their child because she mispronounced
a word? Yeah nice religion you guys got there..
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KILL THE WISE ONE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
38. The Schatz are facing murder and torture charges,
now how do you hold the adoption agency that approved these idiots as parents, and this so called church accountable.
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AsahinaKimi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
39. This is disqusting...
Edited on Wed Feb-17-10 10:51 PM by AsahinaKimi
I hope they both end up in prison with Life sentences with no chance of parole, ever.
Does anyone see any parallels with this form of Christianity and Caning which is apart of Islamic extremism?
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Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #39
53. authoritarian religion is authoritarian
authoritarian religion (or other belief system) is authoritarian religion whatever the window dressing is tacked upon it. I highly recommend Alice Miller's book For Your Own Good: Hidden Cruelty in Child-Rearing and the Roots of Violence which can be read here for free w/her permission http://www.nospank.net/fyog.htm ) as it covers how child abuse done in the name of Christianity helped prime generations of Germans to be good blindly obedient followers of Hitler.

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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
41. What plumbing supply line is
Some of y'all may be thinking "pipe!" Nope, and for this purpose it's worse for the victim.

A plumbing supply line is basically a hose. One like this book apparently recommends (I haven't read it, and won't) is 18 inches long, made of either flexible plastic with fiberglass reinforcement or braided stainless hose, and it's got a big nut on each end to screw into the bottom of the faucet. I have no doubt you could kill a child with one-well placed hit of that nut.
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Pithlet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. I've seen pictures of what it is from discussions of the Pearls on parenting groups.
I'm glad you mentioned this, because many may not be aware. It is torture. Plain and simple. What angered me beyond belief is the article portrays this as discipline gone awry. Bullshit. It was torture that resulted in death. Anyone who follows the Pearls advice tortures their children. Anyone who follows their advice runs the risk of ending up in jumpsuits facing the bench wondering what went wrong. That's what it boils down to. This isn't the first time it's happened. It's mind boggling to me the sheer numbers of people who do. It's a cult and people are brainwashed, and it's frightening what brainwashed people can be talked into.
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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. it's not the nut
the "Pearls" recommend using the flexible plastic hose because it causes less bruising so people won't report you to CPS.

Basically the beating was so severe that the child died - it wasn't a quick easy death from one well placed whack.

May these people rot in hell. And I mean the Pearls who wrote the book along with a guy named Ted Tripp who also advocates beating children into submission.

These so-called "christians" should be prosecuted for fomenting child-abuse.
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
44. James Dobson popularized this first.
With his Dare to Discipline book. He deserves to be singled out as the father of Christian child abuse.
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Pithlet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. Yep. James Dobson. Focus on the Family. Some here on DU couldn't figure out the outrage
over the superbowl commercial. It wasn't just about abortion although of course that was a big part of it. It was about the group itself and everything they stand for. They are pure evil.
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #44
51. The Pearls make him look like Dr. Sears.
In their book they describe how they potty trained one of their children: The child didn't potty train fast enough for their liking, so every time the child had an accident they took the child outside and sprayed him or her (I forget which one it was) with the garden hose.

In Tennessee.

In the winter.
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Pithlet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. And in case some may not realize it, it gets freezing cold here in the winter.
Edited on Thu Feb-18-10 12:02 AM by Pithlet
The Pearls are monsters. The fact they've never seen the inside of a jail, to my knowledge, is a travesty.
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Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
46. Article: 11 yr old Beating Victim Expected to be Discharged from Hospital this week
http://krcrtv.com/node/5456

The 11-year-old girl found badly beaten inside her Paradise home Saturday February 6th, is expected to leave the hospital within the week.

snip

We took a closer look at what the website calls “God's Child Training Program.” Nogreaterjoy.org is a Christian-based website that encourages parents to spank their children to promote obedience.

Instead of a parent's hand, it recommends using a flexible tube known as a plumber's supply line to train your child. In the case of the Paradise girls, authorities believe Kevin and Elizabeth Schatz used such an item.

The text says to stay away from using the hand for fear of hurting the child. The website also draws a fine line between what it calls training and abuse.

According to the site, abuse is when the training starts to hurt the child. In that case, the text recommends immediate counseling for the parent or parents.

The text also recognizes, however, that the child may become more disobedient following training. It says some children may even be driven towards “evil” and that their soul yearns for “justice to be done to the self.”

It goes on to say that, if this is the case, parents should love their children enough to “satisfy his need to experience payback.” For those who reject these methods, the text claims you are unfit to be a parent.


I would like to know where on the site it says to stop when the child is hurt as the parts I have read so far have advised parents to inflict pain on children including a 7 month old who cried when put down to sleep:


Spanking a 7-month-old?

Article by Mike & Debi Pearl, July 2003

http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/articles/general-view/archive/2003/july/01/spanking-a-7-month-old/

I am a pastor’s wife and have a question for you. Is it right to spank a 7-month-old for crying when put down for bed? I grew up with just ignoring the child, thus training them that they will not get their way. My husband wants it to stop all together. I know all the verses for training a child, but I am not sure how to approach this situation. I know you will give me a straight answer.

snip

If the child has been mistrained, or if you have failed to provide a good prelude to sleep, and the child rises up to fight and resist, you should evaluate your whole procedure so as to improve your pre-sleep ritual for tomorrow night. But for the moment, you must constrain the child to obey authority and remain lying down. As a last resort, you may have to prove the power of your word by enforcing it with one or two stinging licks (applied with a small flexible switch) to the child’s leg that says to the child, “There is no reward for getting up; Mama means business; she is not going to give over to my demands; the path to greatest pleasure is to go to sleep; there is no alternative; my parents always get their way; what can I say? Good night.”
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Pithlet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. Hurt is code for things like fatal muscle tissue breakdown.
All else is hunky dory, I'm sure. They're fine with pain. These are crazy people.
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Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #46
54. Homicide, abuse probe continues: Ridge family was private, kids were well-behaved
Edited on Thu Feb-18-10 12:24 AM by Shallah Kali
http://www.sgvtribune.com/california/ci_14364274

The 3-, 7-, and 11-year-olds were adopted from the Republic of Liberia in Africa three years ago, Ramsey said. He said authorities are investigating how the adoptions were made and through what agency.

The remaining youths were taken into protective custody and released to Butte County Children's Services.

Ramsey said the remaining children have indicated that they suffered similar discipline with similar instruments.

Ramsey said the children were being home schooled through a Christian home-school organization. He did not know the name of the organization at press time.



more at the above link....

------------

Paradise couple face murder, torture charges in death of daughter
http://www.chicoer.com/news/oroville/ci_14371693

County District Attorney Mike Ramsey said Tuesday both children suffered extensive bruising and "whip-like" marks on their bodies consistent with a length of rubber or plastic tubing, which other family members said was used to discipline the children.

The Schatzes were also charged with a misdemeanor count of cruelty to a child, involving less extensive injuries to their 10-year-old biological son.

snip

Ramsey said after being taken into protective custody, one or more of the Shatzes' six biological children indicated their parents had frequently used the tubing to discipline them, and that the two older adopted girls received "more harsh discipline" than the other family members.

The other children reportedly told investigators the parents blamed the 11-year-old for "being a bad influence" on her younger siblings.

snip

Ramsey said preliminary hospital tests indicated elevated levels of potassium in both victims' blood likely caused by the breakdown of muscle tissue from "recent discipline sessions."

snip

More than two-dozen supporters showed up for the hearing, including the parents of one or both of the defendants. All declined comment.
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Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 04:58 AM
Response to Original message
56. from a Christian homeschooler's blog
When Parenting Kills – What Can We Do?
http://katiekind.wordpress.com/2010/02/15/when-parenting-kills-what-can-we-do/

As a Christian and former homeschooler myself, this story hits me very hard. I feel like I could know this family, could have rubbed shoulders with them at the Christian homeschooling conferences I attended when I lived in California.

snip

However, people with a steady, normal, functional frame of reference regarding family life would say the Pearls’ approach to “training” — their word for studiously nonchalant flickings, whackings and whippings designed to condition young children to obey — is already well past the normal limits. Normal parents, for example, don’t drape plumbing supply line around their necks – they just don’t. Parents who are attracted to their methods in spite of the cruel or bizarre examples and recommendations that pepper their more conventional positions might lack a normal frame of reference by which to evaluate what is over the line.

And frankly, the Pearls’ advocacy of a take-no-prisoners approach to attaining complete control seems to make this type of tragedy inevitable.

I am sure the Pearls do not want people killing their children. Their website’s defense of their methods even asks rhetorically, “When is it Abuse?” and the answer attempts to help followers identify whether they may have crossed the line. I can appreciate the thought, but – again – what a red flag that is! Normal discipline recommendations don’t bring parents anywhere near “the line.” As my husband said sadly, “if you’re wondering when it’s abuse, it’s probably abuse.”

{she then quotes another blog but does not include the link to it sorry}

While it isn’t the adoption aspect, but the dangerous parenting philosophies as a whole that need to be pointed out to the church, let me say that I don’t think it is coincidence that the children who died were adopted.

Children with RAD (reactive attachment disorder) and/or PTSD as a result of a myriad of adoption-related issues often do not feel pain the same way a child w/o issues does. Consequently, when spanked, they tend to be able to ‘take it’ on the surface, and I have seen this lead a parent to spank more and harder, as they try to ‘break thru’ this seemingly extreme defiance. It’s not defiance, and I could write at great lengths about all of the issues, but suffice it to say that the issues of RAD can make a parent go to more extremes than they ordinarily would if they have not been educated on that front.

As a counselor who works specifically w/children and adults who have trauma-related issues, I can tell you that parents who are fellow believers are often the more difficult to educate because they have bought so heavily into the church-sanctioned parenting ideals such as Ezzo and the Pearls. Been swimming upstream on this front for decades.

Having said that, the abuse, of course, extends to biological children but this doesn’t seem to come under scrutiny as quickly as does the abuse of the adopted children because it is so often easier to accuse the parents of not loving the adopted children as much as a biological child, instead of taking on an entire system of church sanctioned and church promoted abuse.


And in a follow-up message she said:

….the adopted child who has severe RAD and/or PTSD issues will often exhibit behaviors that would drive a saint to drink :-) so, in families who parent and discipline a la Ezzo/Pearl, that line between self-restraint and abuse becomes more and more unbalanced as they deal w/children who, on the surface, are tough nuts to *crack*.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 05:02 AM
Response to Original message
57. Sick evil psychos who use religion to get off beating babies
They should be STONED TO DEATH...buried up to their necks and stoned to death...5 doobies oughta do it
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DRoseDARs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 05:19 AM
Response to Original message
58. Kevin & Elizabeth Schatz are going to make lots of friends in prison. Child killers are well-liked.
They'll share the same interests: Beating people to death. They'll have ever so much fun ... being beaten to death by the other prisoners.
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newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
59. On Super Nanny a couple of weeks ago
they had parents on who had an older daughter and I believe triplets. Anyway, the father and the mother had started the spanking method from their church. Of course, on TV it showed her using her hand or a wooden spoon. Super Nanny was very upset, since this was not the way to punish children, and it sent mixed messages--hitting them and telling them you love them. The oldest daughter (8 or 9) was very hostile towards her mother. I find time outs work a hell of a lot better than spanking their butts. My daughter employs time outs on her twins, and when she tells them time out, they go right to their corner.

The professor who spoke to our class--who was saved by a woman while his family was being loaded on to the cattle cars. His study of altruism--why some risked their lives as well as their families to save others--and why some people did such horrendous things. He observed that families who were engaged more with their children and used less corporeal punishment became more altruistic and questioned authority. Those who were in families where there was fear to speak (seen and not heard) and where there was major corporeal punishment tended towards blindly obeying authority and they had less empathy towards others.
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Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
60. Are the Schutz's followers of Gothard?
Edited on Thu Feb-18-10 07:25 PM by Shallah Kali
One blog poster who says she used to be friendly with the family said they homeschooled using Advanced Training Instutite (founded by bill gothard) materials:
http://mustfollow.blogspot.com/2010/02/devil-who-made-them-do-it.html?showComment=1265946411061#c2345610827377945224

February 11, 2010 7:46 PM
tehBeautifulAngie said...

The Schatzs did follow the Pearl's teachings. I knew this family personally, though I have not had any contact with them in several years. They also homeschooled through ATI (Advanced Training Institute, i.i. Bill Gothard) which I personally believe to be a cult. This tragedy has struck close to home, as you don't ever imagine people you know, people you went to church with, babysat for, etc, to do something like this. This is a case of religious fanaticism and isolation gone too far.


some links with info on Gothard:

'Cult of Character' Xtian Reconstructionist Bill Gothard, Character First! plus a possible Palin connection.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4004754&mesg_id=4004754

information The Rick A. Ross Institute has gathered about Bill Gothard
http://www.rickross.com/groups/gothard.html

The Nightmare of Christianity: How Religious Indoctrination Led to Murder
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=480882&mesg_id=480882

Huckabee & Prayer Closets for Kids
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2528475

Christian Dominionism ~ Part 3: Bill Gothard and the Ties that Bind Extremist Politics to Christian Patriarchy
http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/11/04/christian-dominionism-part-3-bill-gothard-and-the-ties-that-bind-extremist-politics-to-christian-patriarchy /


Matthew Murry An American Tragedy http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/12/14/421737/-Matthew-Murray:-an-American-tragedy

The Nightmare of Christianity By Max Blumenthal http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090921/blumenthal

Gothard cult's infiltration of law enforcement, part 1: An expose of Ray Nash http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/27/15309/5588/151/444280

Gothard cult's infiltration of law enforcement, part 2: PDI Unmasked http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/28/163659/492/529/444911

Gothard cult's infiltration of law enforcement, part 3: A backdoor for dominionists http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/29/151842/163/927/445554

Florida DCF workers forced into fundamentalist-based training.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x139966

Odd duo worked together to form faith-based prisons..Doug Coe and Chuck Colson
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6651982
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