Stack faced the same problems most do with predatory disaster capitalsim

He's not a hero but he also was not mentally ill, he was a human being who gave up on our failed system of lies, propaganda, corruption and greed.

He's also a murderer, a terrorist and a horrible human being for doing what he did.

Both are true, try wrapping you minds around that instead of playing your prescribed role in a failed argument culture.

People need to realize there are no 'bad guys' or 'good guys' - just a bunch of guys

The problem is still the problem, regardless of the Tea Party Terrorist

It's really that simple.

But his other multiple personalities were a bit whacko


Im not sure how any intelligent person can read his ENTIRE disjointed nonsensical ramblings and conclude he was not mentally ill. He started off strong but when Buffalo Bob, his favortie multiple, started ranting and talking about his dad, you know he was going off the deep end. It started sounding like a Sarah Palin speech before long.

No. They kill civilians for their cause, call them collateral damage. Sanity is not the question, root cause is.

It fell to pieces and the only withstanding emotion was hating everything that he blamed for fucking up his life (when all along, this airplane owner was fucking it up himself).

His conclusion to his incoherent hatred across the map? Burn his home down and go Kamikaze.

Sane? Are you nuts?

The military kills to allow rich shareholders of the MIC to profit. Despite this organization exhibiting a sociopathic tendency, a large functioning entity as a whole cannot be deemed mentally ill (but many of the killing machines they make end up that way). I'm not sure how a sane person can compare their toll on the world to the mental state of this airplane owning, IRS-hating "crackpot".

If he was, he was sane in the eyes of the law and psychiatry. If he wasn't he was innocent.

Is anyone responsible for their actions? Is there choice? Are we products of genetics/environment...or is there an independent will (a soul)?

Clearly, his mind, based upon all environmental and internal stimulus, did will his body to fly an airplane into a building. That mind was probably not functioning as a typical mind does (something we would call insanity). I'm not a court of law, so I can tell you that I can point to that individual and declare that it was guilty of *performing* such crime. That body will not be innocent of such a crime that it committed at this point. We cannot take his mental sanity into account in how to deal with him, because he is dead, so it really doesn't matter.

We don't have to debate whether it was an act of temporary insanity, and if he should walk. We don't have to debate whether or not he will be treated in a mental hospital or in prison. He is dead. The language of law, regarding his mental state and what to do with him, is not relevant, because he already figured out what to do with himself. It seems like he will be cremated to his own desire.

Have you yet stated that the OP should quit posting he was sane, because they don't really know? Please don't claim to be the objective one here with that slant. He left a rambling incoherent message describing his perpetual hate of multiple entities; we at least have that to go on. Oh, and the fact he flew an airplane into a building and burned his house down.

Oregone: We really don't know whether Stack was sane or not.

That work for you?

Based on in incoherent letter of hate, the plane debacle, and the house mishap, I might have a stronger case.

Lunatics that pose harm to society are not let free to walk. This just isn't the case. I think trying the temporary insanity angle would be tough, based on his letter of a lifetime of pattern of hate that pushed him in this direction. At best, he would probably be locked up with the criminally insane or thrown, for a long time, into a high security mental hospital. At worst, he would bunk with Charles Manson

He is not a woman who snaps in the heat of the moment and shoots her husband that beats her (and is otherwise not a threat to anyone else)

Whether he would ever experience any kind of freedom or not, I wouldn't know. I heard John Lennon's killer spends his weekends with family now.

I have a bottle of anti-psychotic medication on my kitchen counter. I know a thing or two about insanity. It pisses me off every time I hear people assume that some heinous murderer must be insane to commit such an act. Some of them are, others are not, according to our courts. The vast majority of mentally ill people don't hurt anyone. They are more of a danger to themselves.

It was more from the letter, not from what he actually did (though that doesn't help his case). Paired together...

Im not labeling him insane as a slight to people with mental illness. It was just the only conclusion I could manage after peaking inside the piece of his mind he left.

I understand your apprehension and recognize the majority of people with mental illness are not dangerous.

The dude was fucked up. Mentally ill, nuts, wacko, whatever you want to call it, his bitching about the political system notwithstanding.

What was his attitude toward taxes? Was he tying to hide income, and did it so badly he got caught, twice? Was he one of those people who believed taxes are a violation of freedom and thought anything was acceptable in order not to pay?

I've read his manifesto.

Just wondering.

for exactly what Stack said in his web post "taxation without representation". Wars were fought because of it, it is no small issue, especially today when elitism and class issues are at the forefront of our daily lives.

"Taxation without representation" in no way applies to him.

It had quite a bit more with the minority using the Senate and the territory rules of the time to impose their will upon the majority. It was tyranny by the few that was fought against and settled in the Civil War.

As far as the Revolutionary War, you are naive to think it was about that. It was rather about paying taxes to different people. The elite class used such slogans to incite the lower class into making sure they were the benefactors of the economy. They also cited that all men were born equal, but that isn't why the war was fought, nor was that ever considered true. That was merely propaganda used to supply fresh bodies to fight the war. Thats just the way this shit pans out. The explicit talking points are not always the implicit reasons. People were still taxed after the war, despite their symbolic representation, but just different people benefited.

Taxes are passed by the U.S. Congress, State Congresses, and elected local officials. The U.S. Congress, State Congresses, and elected local officials are our representatives. Hence, there is not taxation without representation.

Now it is true, that taxes may be unequal in their application. People may not like the elected members who are of a different party or philosophical bent. But the claim of taxation without representation is ludicrous and completely wrong.

In colonial times, the colonies were not allowed any representatives. Literally, they suffered from taxation without representation, and they petitioned their government to be allowed to have elected members in England that would represent them. Had the government at the time allowed the colonies to elect and send representatives to London we would probably be singing God Save the Queen today.

and many of them do have problems with taxes. There are only 300 million Americans, and so 'several hundred million' is simply not correct. And of those who do pay, many thousands have issues, audits, reviews, revisions and more that go on for years on end. It is a complex and difficult tax code.
So while I have not read a thing about this guy's issues, what you are saying is just not accurate at all.

:eyes:

;)

How many people do you know whom have given up that slammed their plane into a building. Had he just committed suicide you might have an argument. He did not give up. He took action.

trying ever so hard to rationalize what this guy did.

murderer. I am wrapping my mind around a guy who committed the ultimate act of selfishness. There is no justification for this, no way to package it. There is at least one person dead at his hand...don't know who...maybe a Dad with a family working 2 jobs to pay his way...maybe a Mom, maybe a Grandmother who can't retire yet. Forget the buzz words...your words are really beyond the pale...but I welcome you to come back here...maybe you will learn something.

He lied and cheated about his income and his wife's because of his greed for 30 years!

daughter. Anger at predatory capitalism means you need to hurt your family members???

And his house (in a nice section of a beautiful town) and family?

I mean how much pity do you expect us to feel for this fat cat mother****** jetting around in his private plane?

Why are you starting thread after thread after thread
insulting the people of this forum and defending some lunatic domestic terrorist?

What is your angle here?

There are people without a house living in mud in Haiti,
there are homeless people living in the rain and snow HERE in America
and we're supposed to cry this rich man with a family, a house and a PRIVATE PLANE a river of tears?

Answer:
Pffffffftftftftftft.

I hope he burns in hell.
And the people who see him as anything less that the twisted,
self obsessed, cheap-ass'd anti-government idiot he is deserve little better.

I posted "He's also a murderer, a terrorist and a horrible human being for doing what he did."

A person could just as easily ask "where in hell does the system fail a guy with a nice house that's devalued $250,000 in the last 2 years along with his plane that he worked his butt off to buy"?

The reactions of people to instantly brand this person as crazy is exactly why this is going to happen with a lot more frequency in the future, it is the inability to look at the root cause of these people's problems.

angry and unable to face his own failures.

Housing market goes up, housing market goes down and that is the way it works. Just because your house is worth less doesn't mean you don't still have a house to live in and enjoy. Poor baby, his private plane got devalued. So did my car, but I won't be driving it into a building.

take and blames society for not letting him do it!

If you have empathy for that I wonder who you are cheating?

sorry, I'm not going to view him as a "victim" anytime in the next few millenia.

dg

He was making money off of disaster capitalism in his business, if he was really pulling clients from the defense and aero-space industry as he claimed.

boo f'n hoo. He's a Howard Roarke type who blows up a building because he wasn't as awesome or as clever as he thought he was. Joe Stack was a disaster capitalist who got spit up and chewed out by the system he loved.

Good call!

Stack was obsessive quite obviously, to the point where he required mental professional help. I can understand how problems can drive a person to extreme obsession and depression. It happens so often in this complex society where predatory capitalism threatens one's very survival. I can agree with you on that point. But he allowed it to dominate his life to the point where he wanted to end it. Plus, HE WAS SO DISTURBED HE TOOK INNOCENT LIVES INTENTIONALLY. Nobody should allow themselves to do that, but it is getting so commonplace for suicide prone people to decide to take innocent people with them to their death. Why do they do that unless they are mentally ill?

Honestly, I can understand that some people cannot deal with life anymore and prefer to escape the pain. But, taking innocent victims with you is unnecessary....unless you are mentally ill.

Here we have a guy who, worst case, was upper middle class who didn't want to pay his taxes. And all of a sudden he's justified?

and mention a few populist themes that you agree with, and all the greed and callousness in the world will be waved away, because so many understand... all the pain he must have been going through, knowing he was about to lose his fancy house and private plane... oh, the agony.