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Some news we can all feel good about!!!! The top 400 families are making more than ever!!!!

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TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 09:37 AM
Original message
Some news we can all feel good about!!!! The top 400 families are making more than ever!!!!
And the taxes they are paying are at record lows!!!!!!

http://tax.com/taxcom/features.nsf/Articles/0DEC0EAA7E4D7A2B852576CD00714692?OpenDocument

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/feb2010/fams-f20.shtml



WHEEEEE!!!! LOOK AT THAT INCOME RISE!!!!




YAYYYY!!!!! GO AWAY BAD TAXES!!!!!!



The top income earners received a total income of $138 billion in 2007. This figure is larger than the yearly output of most of the world’s countries, and is nearly as large as the GDP of Chile. Out of this amount, the group paid only $23 billion in taxes.

THIS IS JUST SUPER!!!!!!!



snip:

If the top 400 earners had been taxed in 2007 at the 1995 rate, they would have paid an additional $18.4 billion in taxes, enough to cover the entire 2010 budget shortfall of the state of California.

snip:

The IRS report on the top 400 families was first regularly published by the Clinton administration, but the Bush administration shut down its release, according to the tax.com article by Cay Johnston, a tax law professor at Syracuse University. The Obama administration resumed publication of the figures, with the 2006 figures published about a year ago.


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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
1. K & R!
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StClone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
2. And if you read Phillips' "Wealth and Democracy"
Once wealth is accumulated the resources available then protect and hold that wealth often in perpetuity. For instance families built on piracy during 1700's are still hugely wealthy prominent families in the NE U.S.


http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Kevin_Phillips/Wealth_Democracy.html


http://www.amazon.com/Wealth-Democracy-Political-History-American/dp/0767905334
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. "behind every great fortune there is a crime" - Voltaire
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
3. Kick and Rec. Thank you for posting this! n/t
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
4. So, we can say with some certainty that Lower Taxes on the Rich KILLS Job Growth....
...and isn't healthy for the economy.

Except for that minuscule percentage at the top.
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invictus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
5. Woohoo! Maybe they will throw some crumbs to us common folk. That's how trickle-down economics works
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SmileyRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #5
26. Thank you no. I'd really rather not get trickled on.
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Bigmack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
6. Kicked... and thank you! nt
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
7. But what I found most interesting were the turnover numbers.
Your sources don't cite them much.

The first includes, "Only 7 of the top 400 have shown up in the report every year, the IRS data showed. Of the 6,400 returns covered by the 16 years of the report, the IRS said that 2,515, or almost 40 percent, appeared one time." Some of that is going to be because the curve flattens a bit more under the top 400, so a reasonable number are within striking range. Some will be because of one-time sales or occurrences.

Most of the income is capital gains, so the sharp spikes under Clinton and under the mid-Bush years make sense: Real estate and equities.

The numbers for 2008 and 2009 are likely to be very misleading: Since this focuses on income and not wealth, we're likely to see high income numbers that don't begin to make up for loss in wealth.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
9. well i knew if it wasn't in our pockets, it was certainly in theirs...
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cbdo2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
10. I don't understand what the tea-baggers are complaining about....re: taxes
Tax rates are lower than they have been for the past 50 years.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. They don't want to pay *any* taxes
that seems to be their bottom line.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Tax rates are NOT lower than they have been for the past 50 years.
That's true of the rich.

That's not true of the teabaggers, although it's true of their sponsors.

Consider that automatic payments necessary to living out of fear and precarity are HIGHER than they have been as a proportion of wages. That would mean: taxes plus FICA and all other charges PLUS health insurance premiums PLUS the requirements most people have in transportation, housing, debt, energy and food that they generally cannot get around without entering the ranks of the poor.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
12. Oh, Lordy, that takes a load off my mind!
Was just commiserating with the Mrs. over the weekend about the plight of the super-wealthy. She and I both were on pins and needles about whether or not the top 1-2% were doing all-right. But now we can put our minds at ease...!!!
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Foo Fighter Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #12
21. Thanks so much for thinking of me.
I really appreciate it. It was a bit shakey there for a bit before the bailout money came through. Without my multi-million dollar bonus, I would have been looking at cutting back on unnecessary expenses but then again, are there any expenses that can truly be considered "unnecessary?" Not in my world!

Lucky for me, our bought-and-paid-for elected officials in DC came through big time. "Thank Gawd it passed!" was a phrase heard over and over again at the country club that weekend. So KansDem, rest assured we are doing VERY well up here in our ivory towers. I'm sure some of it will eventually 'trickle down' to you any day now!
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Blue Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
13. All Hail Corrupt Capitalism
I bet you could count on one hand the # of Freepers who are even aware of this.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
14. AND WHAT YOU SEE HERE IS THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG.
As one poster points out above, it's not really top 400, it's more like a pool of the top 4,000 earning households out of whom 400 appear to occupy the top spots in a given year. Increasingly, it's more like a pool of top 40,000 around the world who are involved in more or less one loose network or global community of the superrich.

Most of these entities get to show whatever US income they like. They have a leeway unimaginable to most of us in the ability to defer income, reinvest it, show revenue as loss, show revenue in other countries, shift it around different institutions to the point where one part of the empire appears to lend money to a separate unit that is also part of the empire, and just plain hide it. The assessed values of assets like multiple large real estate holdings can vary by hundreds of millions from year to year. The main flows of cash can be kept offshore and in foundations, where many of the true levers of power lie, largely unaccounted. Control of a variety of corporate entities translates into a control of a far larger multiple in assets than those that appear as individual wealth. Ultimately this class (top half percent at most) also owns the largest voting shares in the big banks and corporations (in US and increasingly worldwide as a single global class). Thus they own and can control the majority of the economy.

The absolute largest fortunes are unlikely to appear on this list. They are older money that has diversified into many holdings and is administered by foundations or obscure holding-company structures that maintain whole tribes descended from robber barons, but generally with one monarch actually running the family empire at any given time (for the Rockefellers over the last half-century that would have been David). They can reach more easily into politics in the guise of charitable institutions (from the Koch complex on the "screw everyone" right financing the Teabaggers, to the Rockefellers on the "noblesse-oblige" right financing ostensible social initiatives, which is bizarrely called "liberal").

Some on the top 400 list of income earners are relatively trivial fortunes of the moment garnered from single-source successes (sports, pop/movie stars, overnight Internet fortunes) and which have not yet diversified and institutionalized themselves via foundations and such. They may be household names, but they don't have the power yet of the more established arrangements.

Recently we saw how the Gates fortune diversified and institutionalized itself for the next century and was able to present this as "being given away." This is the classic move by which robber barons appear to turn into "philanthropists." (If it's a give-away, how is it that a century later some of the supposedly given-up fortunes are still around?)

And all that still doesn't account for the shadow world of spook and criminal fortunes, or the religious enterprises ("churches") who also get to evade taxation and accounting while having an enormous impact on politics and society.

Finally, even for the large portion of the total income tax collected that they do pay, you can be certain that the superrich get more back in the way of corporate welfare and other government services. Laws are generally enforced in the service of their interests. Wars are fought in their presumed economic interests, generally after being lobbied for by groups within their class. Members of this class own the contractors who directly profit from these wars and the "defense" complex, and after each set of wars they hire and enrich the generals who did the planning and ran the campaigns. I focus on war and the spook complex since that's half of the discretionary budget, but of course all other parts of it contain taxpayer-financed corporate welfare for major multinational corporate contractors.

The main part of the federal government that pays back to the people, meanwhile, is the part financed directly by the people in the form of regressive taxes like FICA, Medicare and unemployment. Until now this has always been run at a surplus, and that surplus has financed the awesome deficits of the discretionary budget, the main part of which is devoted to war, "defense" and the spook complex. The US government is unlikely to ever pay back what it now owes to Social Security, which is why the holy grail of the corporate policy wonks has always been privatizing it and ending that obligation.

A more progressive tax system may help make things better for the majority, but it isn't going to change that system at all. The power imbalance will remain, the inhumane distortions it causes from the servants' quarters at the Rockefeller mansion down to the hellish pits of the maquiladoras will remain.

If you want to change this system, you have to acknowledge the need for something that has been cursed as "socialism":

- Nationalize and communalize the banks. There should be state banks devoted to particular functions (California Agricultural Bank, Michigan Tech Bank) and credit unions. Their boards should be voted on by depositors and they would meet from year to year to plan finance for a rational economy. Obviously there would no longer be a Federal Reserve.

- Negotiate with all powers to reduce militaries to emergency response and border patrol.

- Public campaign finance and free TV time for everyone who can make the ballot as a condition of broadcast (by cable too, or it's pointless).

- Obviously, end corporate personhood.

- Throw open the books of the foundations, churches, offshore entities, etc., and above all the black budget and spook world. No longer can a company get special privileges because it's intel. (Obviously CIA must be shut down and the full extent of its activities since 1947 revealed.) All money flows must be made identifiable. Hire 10 times as many people as currently work at the SEC, FTC, FBI financial section to handle this. It's a jobs program all its own!

- Obviously, end war on drugs to drain the swamp of hidden money.

- Punish state and corporate crime. This needn't be a long march to the guillotine. Exposure and expropriation will be sufficient for more than 90 percent of those discovered. Those who go to prison will find very spacious accommodations there, after most of the current prisoners are released in the drug amnesty.

- Senate? Presidents? Please. These are means to delegate power to the upper class. The House should be sovereign, preferably with a proportional representation system, a Senate should have veto power at most, a President's sole job should be to should smile and wave at parades, look solemn at funerals, and have a good looking spouse. (It sort of is that way already - although the executive has the power, that's in the permanent bureaucracy and deep state, and above all in private capital. Electing one guy (or even gal, one day) to the top spot every four years means you get to watch him grow old fast as he makes every possible accommodation to the corporate will until he's spat back out into a minor fortune).

Make the House sovereign, and watch people take up an intense interest in learning about the issues.

YES! I see this involves constitutional changes, and I know how unlikely these are.

NO! I don't think ANY OF THIS is likely to happen. I'm just laying out the structure of power, and what it would look like if it is to change from within. Progressive taxation alone won't do it.

Much more likely is a sooner-or-later collapse of the death system, which is why our culture is so obsessed with apocalypse as religion and visions of planetary disaster as entertainment (which we're helping to speed along, no doubt).

Ooops. I didn't think I'd be spending this half hour quite in this way. Think I'll make a new post of this and watch it drop down the board (or get slagged by unclever one-liners insulting me for things I didn't say).
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Change Happens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
16. How much did # 400 make? Where is the cutoff?
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1776Forever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
17. Add this to the great news: (Only) One million could lose jobless benefits in March
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951-Riverside Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
18. Yay! This means more jobs n/t
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. For the Chinese. nt
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
19. That's been the point of the past 30 years.
And all that time, we've (collectively) been too stupid to put a stop to it.
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
20. k&r n/t
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 02:36 AM
Response to Original message
23. USA! USA! USA!
:banghead:
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 03:54 AM
Response to Original message
24. the part I like
is that I scooped the Wall Street Journal by a day
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/123

Did this come from my journal, or was it separately calculated?

"If the top 400 earners had been taxed in 2007 at the 1995 rate, they would have paid an additional $18.4 billion in taxes, enough to cover the entire 2010 budget shortfall of the state of California."

The CBPP also notes some of the same numbers that I did.

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3090&emailView=1

"The top 400 households paid 16.6 percent of their income in federal individual income taxes in 2007, down from 30 percent in 1995. This decline works out to a tax cut of $46 million per filer in 2007, or a total of $18 billion in tax cuts for these households per year."

Of course, we are both following the work of Johnston and I was directed there by this bloghttp://fourteenpercent.typepad.com/14/
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TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. I think a lot of citizen journalists have been scooping the rags lately
I mean, how you gonna compete with a guy who is unemployed and goes to the library, cause they let you use the internets for free?

Why do you think big biz is pushing their side of the whole "net neutrality" issue? Too much free time and too much free information leads to nosy parkers rummaging around in your (possibly illegal, more possibly unethical, and probably immoral) beeswax.

I found the charts on the wsws.org and I guess I should have credited them.....
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vanlassie Donating Member (826 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
27. Remember the L-Curve.
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