Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Mother Jones: Obama Still Insisting on Excise Tax on Middle Class Health Insurance:

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 02:35 PM
Original message
Mother Jones: Obama Still Insisting on Excise Tax on Middle Class Health Insurance:
Edited on Tue Feb-23-10 03:01 PM by amborin


The Cadillac Crunch

by David Corn

February 23 2010

After more than a year of partisan and policy combat, the epic battle for health care reform may come down to an internal Democrat party tussle: whether or not House Democrats yield to President Barack Obama and accept a tax on high-end insurance plans.

After the Democrats in the House and the Senate passed different versions of health care legislation, several critical matters had to be worked out, including how to finance the reform. The House bill called for a surtax on the wealthiest Americans, The Senate measure included a tax on so-called Cadillac plans. This led to a contentious intra-party squabble. A few weeks ago, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi told several columnists (including me) that this excise tax has "no support" among House Democrats and that "the easiest thing is just to get rid of the whole excise tax."

Yet on Monday, the president released—finally—his own health care proposal, which essentially is based on the Senate measure, with a few changes. And on the excise tax, he sided with the Senate. But he wants it tweaked so that it kicks in 2018, not 2013, and hits fewer plans. His proposal calls for raising the threshold for this tax from $23,000 in premiums for a family to $27,500.

Obama's reforms address some of the complaints from House Dems—but not their fundamental gripe: the tax is bad policy and bad politics. Rep. Jerrold Nadler, (D-NY), who has led the charge against the excise tax, contends that a tax imposed on high-cost plans would likely not cause insurers to become more efficient and reduce costs (the supposed intent) but to cut back on benefits—and employees will end up with higher deductibles and co-payments as a result.

Such a development, Nadler adds, will "violate Obama's promise that if you like your plan, you can keep it." Nadler also fears an excise tax is "political poison" because it will hit blue-collar workers (unionized or not) who have managed to obtain high-end health plans. "We lost the Reagan Democrats in the 1970s and 1980s," he says, "because they came to believe that liberals wanted to benefit other people—the blacks, the Latinos—at their expense. We've just gotten them back. And now we're saying to working people, we have to insure other people at your expense. This will destroy the Democratic Party and progressive politics for 30 years."


snip

http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/02/cadillac-tax-health-care-reform






Robert Reich on the excise tax....

The House wants a 5.4 percent surtax on couples earning at least $1 million in annual income. The Senate wants a 40 percent excise tax on employer-provided “Cadillac plans.” The Senate will win on this unless the public discovers that a large portion of the so-called Cadillacs are really middle-class Chevys, expensive not because they deliver more benefits but because they have higher costs.

The dirty little secret under the hood is that less than 4 percent of the variation in the cost of current health-care plans has to do with how many benefits they provide. Most plans that cost more do so because (1) a particular set of employees is older and tends to get sicker than the average set of employees (that’s true for a lot of old rust-belt firms), (2) the plan is offered by a small business that lacks bargaining clout with insurers (small businesses pay, on average, 16 percent more for the health insurance they provide, per capita), (3) the work that employees do subjects them to greater risk of medical problems (health-care workers, for example), or (4) most employees are women (who tend to have higher health-care costs than men because women are the ones who bear children). Plans could also cost more but deliver average benefits because (5) insurers in the area don’t face much competition (one main reason for the public option).

So by taxing so-called Cadillac plans, the Senate bill would actually end up taxing the Chevy plans of a large portion of the middle class. And as time goes by, a still larger portion, since the Senate plan is geared to the overall rate of inflation rather than to the (much higher) rate of increases in health-care costs.

Defenders of the Senate plan say not to worry. Employers who bear the tax and therefore have an incentive to cut back on health care for their employees will make it up to employees in higher wages. But anyone taking even a passing glance at today's labor market knows this is wishful thinking. Employers have no incentive to raise wages when almost everyone is worried about keeping their jobs. (Besides, a dollar's worth of tax-free health benefit is worth more than a taxable dollar of wages.)

In any event, I thought a major purpose of health-care reform was to get more care to more people, not to cut it back. Even employees who get extra dollars of wages to make up for the cutbacks won't necessarily plow those wages back into health care.

Some say the Senate's excise tax is the only way to control long-term health care costs. Baloney. If a portion of the middle class loses their health care, they won't get the preventive care that's so crucial to containing long-term costs. If Congress wanted to do more cost containment it would allow Medicare and Medicaid to use their huge bargaining power to get lower costs from pharmaceutical makers and medical suppliers. And it would have a public option to compete with private insurers.

snip

But why even take these chances when the House bill simply and cleanly goes after the top 1 percent? It's not as if couples earning over a million can't afford to pay the tax. When I last looked, the top 1 percent was taking home a record 23 percent of total income. If anything, the Great Recession is widening the gap. It's bonus time on Wall Street again. But the middle class is taking a beating.

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/01/13-2




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. Please correct me if I'm wrong...
The plans in question are only called high-end or 'Cadillac' plans because of how much they cost, not the quality of the plan, right?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
subterranean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. That is correct.
The excise tax is based solely on the cost of the plans. And it only applies to the portion above the threshold. So if the threshold is set at $27,000, and the plan costs $28,000 a year, only $1000 of it would be subject to the tax.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 02:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
12. Exactly. If you pay 5 times as much for shitty coverage just because you are old--
--that's a "Cadillac" plan.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 03:13 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. That's what I thought.
Good thing Obama was against it during the GE. He'll definitely fight it...what's that? He's proposing it? :banghead:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
3. great so what this will do is take those with good insurance plans and make them shitty!!
what a trade off..go from having a good insurance coverage and equal everything out by making EVERYONES COVERAGE AS SHITTY AS THEY CAN MAKE IT!!

What a great plan!!..we go from shitty to more shitty!!

who thinks of this crap??????

Oh yeah..the insurance boys and Big Pharma that made secret deals with Obama!!

So the deal was..make everyone's coverage shitty!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
4. I work for $7.70 an hour, but have a good employer provided health plan.
I am retired, drawing Social Security, but not yet on Medicare. And Obama wants to hit me with $23K+ in taxes????? Am I understanding that article correctly?

Please don't say that he will make my employer pay the tax. It will just become a hidden tax to me. It will be an additional expense to the employer of having an employee. The result will simply be that the employer will cease to offer coverage.

I really, really hope that I am misunderstanding this. If that passes, it will be the death of the Democratic Party.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Obama picked anti- Soc Sec, anti-Medicare Alan Simpson for his "deficit commission":
http://www.alternet.org/news/145725/obama_pick_for_budget_commission_is_a_very_ominous_sign%3B_a_social_security-medicare_slasher

Obama Pick for Budget Commission Is a Very Ominous Sign; A Social Security-Medicare Slasher
We should be focusing on the cost of two wars, Bush's rotten medicare reform and outrageous tax cuts to the wealthy before slashing Social Security.


February 19, 2010

On Thursday, President Obama signed an executive order creating a National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform.

This commission is based on an idea promoted by two Senators, Kent Conrad (D-N.D.) and Judd Gregg (R-N.H.). Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus warned that the Conrad-Gregg legislative version of the deficit commission would have “painted a big red target on Social Security and Medicare. That's what this commission is all about. It's a big roll of the dice for Social Security and Medicare."

President Obama pushed to get the Senate to pass the Conrad-Gregg commission, which would have required the Congress to vote on its budget-cutting recommendations in a “fast-track,” undemocratic up-or-down vote with no amendments and little opportunity for debate. Senate Republicans, some of whom sponsored the legislation, refused to vote for it – so Obama is doing something similar by executive order.

So what should the 60 organizations and many concerned citizens who opposed the Conrad-Gregg version of this commission (because they heeded Sen. Baucus’s warnings) think about the Obama version?

One very bad sign: The President announced that the Republican co-chair of this bipartisan commission would be former Senator Alan Simpson, who hated defenders of Social Security and Medicare so much that he tried as Senator to attack and intimidate AARP, holding hearings that could have affected the senior groups tax status. A May 4, 1995 AP story reported then-Representative (now Senator) Ron Wyden called Simpson’s behavior “'classic scapegoating' and said Simpson is trying to cover up Republican efforts to cut Medicare by discrediting AARP.”

snip

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
subterranean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 04:44 PM
Original message
You are totally misunderstanding this.
Edited on Tue Feb-23-10 04:57 PM by subterranean
The article said Obama wants to raise the threshold for the tax from $23,000 in premiums for a family to $27,500 (not sure what it is for individuals). The tax would apply ONLY to the amount above the threshold. So if the plan costs $28,500 a year, only $1,000 of that would be taxed. (In other words, if the tax rate is 40%, the tax would be $400.)

It is very unlikely that this tax will affect you at all. Under Obama's proposal, it would not take effect until 2018, by which time I assume you'll be on Medicare.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
16. Thanks. I appreciate the correction. N/T
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
6. But he said no new taxes if you make under 200K!
Right?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
8. Here is something you might enjoy:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. thanks for posting! i had missed that, just incredible! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. thank you
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
9. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. again
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 04:07 AM
Response to Original message
14. Let's take a popular funding mechanism progressive taxation on the wealthy with the ability to pay
replace it with a very unpopular one that forces more and more people into high deductible, high copay junk insurance.

Then let's and combine it with an even more unpopular mandate (after stripping out popular and effective public option).

and for the coup de grâce let's ensure that most of the tangible benefits don't kick in for years.

Just let the Republican try to see if they can make any political hay with that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 07:27 AM
Response to Original message
15. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed May 08th 2024, 04:54 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC