Is economically-associated suicide OK?

As a meta-meta thread to this one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7786567&mesg_id=7786567

It seems to me that a significant percentage (if not gross majority) of suicides are related to finances. Even in the cases where there is an illness involved, it seems to come down to an economic decision. The person either could not get adequate care (as in the case of mental illnesses) or did not want to deplete the meager resources of relatives, or really, whatever. I believe that by far the greatest number of suicides are very directly connected with money, to put it bluntly.

First off, do you agree with that statement? (don't mention the exceptions because we all know what they are--broken heart probably being the 2nd most common, but quality of life related to illness is likely another big contributor)

So if we as a society have such a strong objection to suicide, and if most suicides are truly associated with economic issues, why don't we do more to help people? Is it because we, as a nation, are a bunch of selfish self-righteous hypocrites? (don't answer that, I already know the answer)

Sadly...

Will need to answer later - want to give this topic its due.

are uncomfortable with.

The Greeks allowed people to petition the Senate for permission to commit suicide. If they won their case, they were given poison and allowed to complete their action.

In our increasingly beehive-like society, suicide for many reasons may be a perfectly moral stance to take.

Who has the authority to restrict an individual from getting an early release from whatever pain they are suffering?

Who owns the life?

Relationships come and go, and they have varying levels of commitment.(I'm legally married but in the throes of divorce - we are absolutely irreconcilably estranged at this point) It's entirely possible I may end up severely disabled and destitute eventually. I hope not, but life has a way throwing bombs in your lap. (It doesn't help that I have an extremely dangerous job and dangerous hobbies) I'm not sticking around for that. If things deteriorate to an intolerable level, I'm checking out. I'm not going to live through hell to meet someone else's expectations.

Just to be clear - I've had a really fucked up life. I can survive almost anything. I'm talking crippled and homeless bad, not stub my toe and spilled my drink bad.

An economic related suicide could be a course of action decided upon after losing a meaningless financial ratrace one has devoted their lives to. Yes, the depression may be brought about be an economic event, but it could really be resting on deeper feeling of depression about a broken life ruined by consumerism and constant work. And if one fails at such a race, do they have any more reason to exist? Any more purpose? Were they really miserable the entire time, but rewarded suffiently to keep on trying up to now?

It might not actually be the loss of money is what Im getting at, or even their current financial status, but rather the loss of purpose and some type of epiphany about what they have wasted their lives on. In such a case, maybe handing them economic aid would do nothing because it really isnt about money afterall.

I don't know. Just random thoughts

it's harder. plus you need help & are a burden on others.

Being of an ethnic heritage where my "people" wandered off to the woods to be eaten by the bears when they knew their time was up, and having had 2 (possibly 3) siblings and endless other relatives, take their own lives, I guess for me what it comes down to is hope.

If I lose all hope that it will ever be better, especially if my health and $ is gone, then it will always be an option for me to check out on my own. Having lived through this twice in the last 12 years the reality is that life goes on w/o us. Living only because you don't want to hurt someone or deprive them of their relationship with you isn't enough if you are just plain done with it all.

I see a real loss of hope in the people I know and work with - good people who have done good things with their lives - and because they aren't sharks, the sharks are now eating them. So, maybe the saying that "only the strong survive" isn't necessarily a good thing. I don't know, just random thoughts for me too.

and they suddenly had no jobs to support their families. Whole families actually committed suicide. It certainly makes it easier for TPTB if you're dead.

Man, some people are so afraid to talk about things that scare them.

two were relatives and one a best friend, none of them had anything to do with economics. One was due to severe chemical depression and a seriously messed-up judicial system. The other two were my great-grandfather and grandfather, both of whom were proud Texans who had no intention of allowing cancer to take them down when they got the bad news. Both of those had access to their military health care but it was an issue of control for them, not even pain.

Depression, bipolar, schizophrenia, anxiety, etc. as well as traumas like abuse, unemployment, public humiliation, being screwed over, etc.

So finances are a factor, but they are not the only one. Plus there is overlap of those 2 categories. Mental illness can cause problems with unemployment, humiliation, abuse, etc while victims of those acts tend to be at higher risk for mental health problems like depression, anxiety, etc.

It is a vicious cycle. But I disagree that economics are the main concern. Mental illness and trauma (both of which are connected to economics) are the 2 big causes. That and terminal illnesses.

Rich people commit suicide all the time.


Not only that but socialist havens (and I use the term as a compliment) like Canada, Norway, Finland & France have higher suicide rates than we do. France's rate is 50% higher than ours. Ex-USSR nations have the highest rates of all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

http://www.miller-mccune.com/blogs/news-blog/suicide-rate-linked-to-high-unemployment-3688/

I don't agree that life is a vicious cycle. Life is constantly getting better. Wealth, investment and knowledge go up with time and with them so does health, freedom, opportunity, quality of life, etc.

Its not perfect, but I'm sure life will be much better on many fronts when I am an old man in the 2060s. Life is more of an upward cycle than a vicious cycle. Fewer poor people, better medical treatments, better mental health treatments, more civil/political rights, etc. The world is on an upward trend and has been for 300 years since the enlightenment, scientific revolution, industrial revolution & agricultural revolution.

Right now I struggle with depression due to emotional trauma and unemployment. Many of the treatments I use didn't exist 20 years ago. Treatments that don't exist now will exist in 20 years.

Things will keep generally getting better IMO. It is not solace for those suffering from massive problems right now, but by and large things keep getting better.