What would tell a woman who was raped?

The time parameter is two years ago. It's my sister, and I don't know how to deal with this. I'm stunned beyond comprehension. She was raped by TWO men two years ago, and has spent the last two years as an alcoholic, avoiding the pain with alcohol. She finally broke down and told me the truth tonight.

So what do I do? She's afraid to press charges because she was doing something illegal at the time she was raped. *I* feel like she needs to report it no matter what, in order to keep other women from going through what she did.

What say you? Until tonight, I had assumed that my sister was an untrustworthy alcoholic, but tonight I found out WHY she's an alcoholic. I believe her because I know my sister, and she confessed to this under duress (thinking that our Mom is dying.) I think she should pursue it and put these guys in prison (she says she knows who they are.) She thinks that it's too late to bother with it, because the physical evidence is gone.

What would YOU do?

But she feels like it's pointless because it happened two years ago and any DNA evidence is gone. I want her to pursue it and she is reluctant because she says "I don't think I could live with a judge saying that he doesn't believe me. I think I'd die."

ALL of our local judges are Republican men. Without DNA evidence, She doesn't think a conviction is possible. I don't know what else to do.

:cry:

And even if she declines to prosecute, they can get her the counseling she needs, usually at no cost. Talking to someone about prosecuting or not is a good first step to feel back in control (even if she decides no, she's still making the decision).

and Counseling is the most important thing at this point. Counseling will help immensely, and then she can make her own decision about whether to prosecute now.

Unfortunately, her chances are a successful prosecution are probably not great at this point because of the evidence, but even if the chances were high, pressuring her to prosecute is not the way to go now. Taking her to proper counseling for a rape victim is the most important step now.

get her to therapy pronto - she needs help

rape crisis center. Trying to force her to pursue this legally is a very bad idea. It's two years old and there's no forensic evidence and there's little likelihood of a conviction, but there's a large likelihood of reprisal from the two scumbags.

Focus on your sister, in other words. Once she's healthier, maybe she'll surprise you. Right now, it's the worst thing you can do to her.

As for the scumbags, if someone else ever accuses them and she's well enough, she can come forward and tell her own story. It sounds like it's going to be some time before she'll be able to do that, though.

Remember, rape crisis center. They can help, even 2 years later.

is to be set up to be violated again -- even by ignoring their wishes.

ETA: Lyric, I'm sorry. :grouphug:

She needs to attempt to stop these men before they hurt someone else. And if it gets in the paper, more victims may come forward. (There's no such thing a one-time predator.)

But be warned, if she was doing something illegal and the statue of limitations hasn't run out, she may have to answer for it.

How may similar cases do you read about that are first discovered because a victim forth and the story prompted a number of other victims from years back to come forward.

In something like this, depending on what she was doing that was illegal, it might be overlooked, perhaps in return for her testimony since she apparently knows the identity of her attackers. Hard to say without more info but, depending on the LE officers, some may be hellbent on prosecuting anything and everything that comes their way and others are extremely adamant on protecting victims such as your sister from having to suffer further as a result of reporting the crime. I guess in this case it depends on how your local LE office is and/or who you get assigned to in the LE office.

But apart from everything else, the most important thing is how Lyric's sister is doing. She's been going through hell for two year dealing with something no one should ever have to go through. As others have suggested, a rape crisis center would be a great help. It might be good not only for Lyric's sister but also for Lyric as hopefully they could provide advice on how to deal with this.

Lyric, I wish you and your sister the best. No one should have to go through this type of suffering after being the victim of a crime.

felony and i mean way of the scale, im more concerned with trying to get the rapists, either way its better she gets help and mayby though i doubt have to face some criminal charges than she tries to deal with this on her own. As others have already pointed out theres probuably a good chance that if they have raped once they have done it before..

If she has no physical evidence, the lawyers will rip her apart for waiting so long. I've even seen DUers claim a rape victim probably was making it up because they waiting a few weeks to report it. I would not pressure her to report it for a number of reasons. Being raped is one of the most disempowering things that can happen to a person. Being pressured by a third party to report it if you don't want to adds another layer of disempowerment. Being torn apart publicly on a witness stand and made out like you are the guilty party is a whole other layer of disempowerment on top of those - almost like being raped again. And if she can't take that and has to stop, then you'll see people assume she dropped the case because she was lying. The end result is very likely to be added trauma, more PTSD symptoms, public humiliation - and for what? No conviction is likely to come from it.

I think the best thing you can do is be supportive of her (rather than controlling of her). Just be there for her, help get her counseling. You might consider talking to a rape counselor yourself to see if there is some kind of support group for people in your situation, or guidelines they can give you.

,

Get her to a rape crisis center and into counseling.

In my humble opinion, help her first; think about calling the cops later. When it's time to bring in the law, your sister should speak with a lawyer first.

I don't envy her or you, but as someone who recovered from something similar, know it can be done. Good luck.

And come to that conclusion on her own. The Rape Crisis Center is an excellent idea. They will help her sort through her feelings and understand the ramifications of reporting at this time, evidence, the disappointment if there's no prosecution, etc. They will also help her decide whether her drinking is self-medication or alcoholism. It's not really the same thing.

Humans are so complicated. We never really know everything about each other and it can lead to a lot of frustration. Hope your sister is on the healing path now. :hug:

rape crisis center might have the best advise about that. IMO, the fact that there's no proof and that she was doing something illegal at the time indicates the legal system would victimize her all over again and she'd have nothing to show for it.

My 2 cents.

- is become her confidante and let her talk to you about it as much as she needs to. One need not be a trained psychotherapist to facilitate the basic purpose of the "talking cure," which is to listen with patience and sincere concern. Your sister has been dealing with repressed feelings of shame, murderous rage and, probably, guilt for a long time and what she really needs is someone to explore those thoughts with.

As far as prosecuting the men who raped her two years ago, unless she can offer solid evidence there is no chance of convicting them. And if she was involved in some illegal activity with them, that fact would serve to dilute sympathy and sway the opinion of a judge or jury and their lawyer would make the most of it.

if she comes forward with information that may uphold someone else's experience too. She won't know that unless she comes forward.

...she should report it, as well, since the perpetrators are probably still out there victimizing other women. If she knows their names, that would be awesome!

It will empower her.

She has 2 serious and difficult issues to address, and needs your support and those of all others. If your sister is truly alcoholic, it doesn't have anything to do with having been raped:

'Since 1956, the American Medical Association has recognized and defined alcohol addiction as a primary disease, not a secondary symptom of an underlying psychological or medical illness. Since then, this definition has been extended to define all chemical addictions as "chronic, progressive diseases characterized by significant impairment that is directly associated with persistent and excessive use of psychoactive substances. Impairment may involve physiological, psychological, or social dysfunction."

Research into the neurochemical basis of addiction points to the dysfunction of one or more of six major neurotransmitter types as being the basis of the symptoms of addiction, withdrawal, and drug cravings. Studies have shown strong genetic predisposition to some types of chemical dependency regardless of social environment.'

http://www.lakesidemilam.com/DiseaseOfAddictionSynopsis.htm

If she has been drinking to escape the trauma she underwent, and is NOT a true, physiological alcoholic, she must find different treatment for her emotional trauma. Its NEVER TOO LATE to 'bother' with such emotional matters. Begin with the police, and their recommendations for rape victims treatment, as mentioned above.

:hug:

Rape conviction rates are very low; she would be going through a lot of further trauma for something that is far from a sure thing. The victim is more often the one on trial in rape cases.

If at some point in the future she WANTS to press charges, then be a source of support against the hell that that process will put her through. But for now, counseling will be much more of a help to her.

Step 1: Get the alcohol thing under control. Nothing else is going to get better until that happens. That doesn't mean you force her to join AA or anything. Trying to force that can actually make matters worse. Make her understand that you are there for her to talk about it. A lot of the problem with alcoholism is the shame that comes along with it, and the feeling that you have nobody to talk to. So be there for her and make her understand that she can tell you anything, and you won't judge her on it.

Step 2 depends on the outcome of Step 1. Figure that out, then go from there.

she needs - counseling and a safe place to process what happened, and how to deal with it from now on.

First, help her understand that it wasn't her fault. It was NOT her fault.

and could well be on the way to having a place to start from to heal.
Am not familiar with Rape Counseling Ctrs. But if they have a good reputation, then perhaps she should go to one. Indeed it is not her fault. It is easy to take on some of the blame though if you have low self esteem. She may need just some basic counseling as well as your telling her that you will be there for her.
Good luck.
Also.... tell her from me that this experience can be used to make her stronger. She needs to clean up, stop drinking for awhile and maybe get support to stop drinking.

Let her know that you support her and that you love her and that nobody deserves to live in pain and fear. Let her know that you will help her in whatever decision she chooses to make and that if she can't be strong, you can be strong for her.

as one who has been there.

as for pressing charges, that's up to her, but right now, what she needs is to be able to trust someone to really BE there for her. Not pressuring, not judging, not expecting her to ______anything.

She's already made the very difficult step of telling... letting her know you are truly with her is the most important thing right now.


:grouphug:

Rape is a hideous negation of her value as an individual. It uses a woman as carelessly as a Kleenex.

I gave my cousin a blue evil eye bead on a 14k chain, to destroy her enemies and protect her from harm.

But I became acquainted with rape gifts thru a co-worker whose family worked hard to make sure she felt her value and importance to them, enough so she was able to tell us, one day, about the two men who forced her up on a roof and were interrupted before they could throw her off after they'd finished. We admired her coat and she told us it was one of her rape gifts, because her old coat was ruined that night. It was a beautiful coat given with great love to a girl they adored.

Rape gifts. To damn the negation. To reaffirm the great value.

I know that you and I would want her attackers to be caught and punished severely, but she may not be able to make that happen, and may be too fragile to face that outcome.

The best thing you can do is be there for her as her sister, and get her into a counseling-support situation with women who deal with situations like this day in and day out; in other words, a rape crisis center.

In telling you, she has made an important step. I hope that in time she can begin to heal and that the two of you can begin to heal your relationship as sisters. :hug:

Hekate

I was in a similar situation recently. A very close friend of mine was raped by an acquaintance of hers, and she confided in me about it. I, like you, felt that she should press charges and go to the police, etc.

The truth is that the criminal justice system violates rape victims a second time -- and I know I'm certainly not the first person to say that. Furthermore, rape cases are often difficult to prosecute unless there's some sort of a plea agreement.

What did I want her to do? I wanted her to go to the police. In the end, though, my belief was that this is her choice. To bring these sort of charges against someone is a monumental, life-changing decision for everyone involved. I wanted her to bring them, but more than that I just wanted to be there for her. If she didn't, I wouldn't think poorly of her or judge her.

So I just told her what the realities of it were, what I thought she should do, and above all, I stressed that I would be there no matter what happened.

And finally, I'm sorry. I know that the experience was difficult for me as I'm sure it is for you.

and I would talk to them and tell them what you have posted. Do not tell your sister what you are doing until after you have spoken to a counselor. The counselor can help you to talk to your sister. After you have your approach, try to get her on the phone with the counselor. Sit with her if it will help.

Please understand that only a rape victim can decide whether or not to have the rapists prosecuted. She probably feels that they took away the power she had over her life and she is afraid they will attack her again. That is fairly common when someone is raped. The rape counselor can explain it better than I can. Her fears are warranted. Many women feel that going to trial with their ordeals is like being raped all over again, because the criminal justice system is not typically kind to rape victims under any circumstances. Many other women feel more empowered after going to trial, even if the rapist is acquitted. They feel they are taking back their lives. But only the victim can decide what she needs. If she is pressured to charge them it might make her fears worse and she might be even more reluctant particularly if alcoholism is a factor. My mother in law was an alcoholic and one of the main emotions she lived with before she went to AA was fear, and it was unreasoning. They more we tried to help her the harder she resisted.

I think all rapists should be prosecuted, but I can't decide for another person what they can live with. Help your sister by talking to an expert on how to help her heal. That is the most important thing. Let her know you love her and are there for her no matter what. If and when she can find her strength again and her fear lessens she may decide to prosecute, but now is not the time to push her. Help her to come back to herself first.

Listen and do just what you're doing - suggesting she go after them with the law. Even if it doesn't happen, she'll have tried and a lot of the undeserved guilt she's taken on herself will be lessened once she realizes people know why she's stumbled for two years, it will help her regain a bit of self-esteem. I have seen women who have hidden it for 10 years and after councelling been finally able to push through that wall - and it is a wall - they're in prison inside. Listen, love and support. It means so much.

ETA: I forgot to add ....... my best wishes for your sister and you and her family.

Sadly, she is far from alone, and they have a lot of experience helping people like her.Give her all the support you can.

Oh, and I hope mom is doing better.

mark

out of the case.. Its hard enough to get a conviction when sober and having evidence. Unfortunately, rape is tried as a moral fitness of a woman and not men having committed a crime.

Regardless of how anyone feels about Oprah she does have some incredible shows once in a while.

On a recent one, she had 4 convicted child molesters, rapists and the like on and interviewed them. At one point the most articulate of them said "By molesting her, I killed the person she could have been." Anyone who has been raped/molested knows this to be true. Know this when you speak to your sister, know this when you think about how she feels. It is a life changer and destroyer.

Chalco

You kill something inside and life's direction changes after a sexual assault. And it takes years of work and introspection just to function at a decent level. But even then you know you are more vulnerable than you were before.

From the national institute of health:

"After a traumatic event, people often report using alcohol to relieve their symptoms of anxiety, irritability, and depression. Alcohol may relieve these symptoms because drinking compensates for deficiencies in endorphin activity following a traumatic experience. Within minutes of exposure to a traumatic event there is an increase in the level of endorphins in the brain. During the time of the trauma, endorphin levels remain elevated and help numb the emotional and physical pain of the trauma. However, after the trauma is over, endorphin levels gradually decrease and this may lead to a period of endorphin withdrawal that can last from hours to days. This period of endorphin withdrawal may produce emotional distress and contribute to other symptoms of posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD). Because alcohol use increases endorphin activity, drinking following trauma may be used to compensate this endorphin withdrawal and thus avoid the associated emotional distress. This model has important implications for the treatment of PTSD and alcoholism."

http://www.enotalone.com/article/11325.html

and guess what comes from rape? You guessed it... PTSD.

and that goes for you too.

For the moment LISTEN and realize that you NEED to validate her pain.

Cops and the rest at this stage will be hard as hell. It is hard when you have a rape kit in hand... with like evidence and shit.

Oh and whatever you do, and it is easy to do without realizing this, do not judge.

But chiefly LISTEN... you'd be surprised how much good that does.

She is just now finding her voice and needs to be encouraged to talk. What about a rape support group? She doesn't have to talk there, just listen to other people's stories and you can go from there.

You may think it's as simple as spilling the beans but it's usually far more complicated than that. I would use the angle that what if someone else were to be raped by the same guys? If she comes forward that will protect other women from that atrocity. She needs to feel that she has some control.

"It WASN'T your fault"

personally, i think that filing charges would be pointless, and only serve to cause her more grief at this point, and it's very likely that the d.a. would refuse to pursue the case anyway. :shrug:

i vote for rape counseling center as the next/first step.

you can't report a rape that happened 2 yrs ago with no proof that it even happened, on the word of a substance abuser -- you believe your sister because she's yr sister and yr mom is dying, well, that's not really sufficient evidence to interest the D.A. much less a jury -- DRUNKS lie and they esp. lie when they're drinking and under a lot of stress

you may want to talk to other people who are dealing w. alcoholic family members, before you encourage yr sister to do something that will accomplish NOTHING positive except to give her a drama reward and an excuse to continue w/ the drinking/self pity

you don't become an alcoholic because you were raped, you become an alcoholic because you have a disease, although being raped certainly gives the alcoholic a terrific reason to feel sorry for herself and to blame somebody else for her issues

i would STRONGLY encourage your sister to get help, both from AA and if need be from professionals

but, yeah, you don't go back after two years and accuse some dudes of raping you when you were high, maybe they did, or maybe they didn't, the problem w. being a drunk/druggie is that you lie not just to others but to yourself and with the evidence gone, there is nowhere to go now but forward

your intentions are probably the very highest, but i think your plan (to accuse some guys of raping a drunk 2 yrs previously) is absolutely going to accomplish nothing positive whatsoever -- i can't imagine any scenario in a just world where two guys could or should be convicted of a rape that happened years ago with NO evidence, just the word of a drunk under stress

would you want to be accused of a crime, based on something that may or may not have happened 2 yrs ago, with the only evidence the word of an active alcoholic???

i assume the "something ilegal" yr sister did was attending a party at a crack house or something, frankly, she needs to concentrate on her OWN recovery and clear her own head before she starts blaming everybody else -- denial and "it's everybody else's fault i'm a drunk" is just alcoholism, it isn't proof of rape

if she was in fact raped, it's terrible, but i agree she let too much time pass -- in no decent, just society can you put people in prison just on somebody making a claim with no proof

Worst because it's such a striking example of blame-the-victim.

"she needs to concentrate on her OWN recovery and clear her own head before she starts blaming everybody else" <-- how dare she blame the men who raped her for raping her?

And it's in some ways the best post in the thread because it gives such a clear demonstration of how she's likely to be further abused/degraded/disempowered if she is pressured into attempting to prosecute. Imagine how she would feel reading this post - and then imagine it becoming the very public way that she is defined. This is what people were trying to say about how rape trials are unique in that they become a trial about the woman's character, not about the crime itself.

my framing is harsh and blunt, because alcoholics don't need more denial in their lives (plus it's difficult for me to phrase things tactfully in any case) but at the end of the day, rape does not cause alcoholism, and alcoholism won't be fought with by giving pity parties

2 yrs have passed since the event in question, she needs to focus on not drinking TODAY

it's too easy for a drunk to let her whole life be about, wah wah, a terrible thing happened to me in 1982 and so i have this excuse to be a stinking drunk forever

but she shouldn't hear it by reading this thread, she should hear it from a support group, from her PEERS (other recovering alcoholics, who can call her own her shit w. credibility)

her sister is not really a peer, too often the family enables because, hell, we love our family member and we just want them to stop hurting

:puke:

Here is an online "hotline" and here is the toll-free number: 1-800-656-4673 (from the link)

National Sexual Assault Online Hotline: http://apps.rainn.org/ohl-bridge/

What I would do is - listen without judging or fixing. I would not tell her what she should do. She's not me (or you). She'll proceed as she is comfortable. I would continue to let her know I'm there; not just by words, but by my presence. I would hand her the link and the phone number above. I would tell her if she wants to go online or call with me there; I'll sit and be there. If she wants to do it alone, I would give her the space to do so. I would do the balancing act of being there as much as *she* needs while giving her all the space *she* needs. I would put my ego in neutral.

In other words; she would lead, I would follow and be her "safety net/helping hands." I would not impose my thoughts, ideas, "shoulds" on her.


That is what *I* would do - at this "beginning" point. From there, it will change and I would have to adjust accordingly.


edit for minor typo

If charges are pressed and there's a guilty plea or a conviction, she will be able to sue for damages to fund her counseling and probably get victims' compensation funds as well. And the scumbags will be where they can't do it to any more women for a while, at least.

At the very least, reporting the guys to the police, even without asking that charges be brought, leaves a record that can be used against the rapist later, and lets the police know they need to pay attention to these guys.

Tucker

Reality is that it is too late to prosecute, but filing a report could link the individuals who did this, should their names ever be put into any kind of database.

If she reports this, knowing that, there is still some value to it. She will have documented her experience and perhaps saved someone else and while that may be small comfort, it is a step towards her healing.

She is truly not alone in her response to this, she pretty much textbook in her response. There are many organizations who can be a good resource for her. I highly recommend she start with RAINN.

Been there - I wish her well.

:hug: for your sis.

Always make sure to remind her that IT WASN'T HER FAULT.

So consider ignoring everything I say.

I would suggest she report it. Let the police and the DA decide if there's evidence enough to prosecute. Even if there's just enough evidence to arrest, that's one hell of a blemish on the ole permanent record.

I would try to suggest counseling. I'm a guy, so I don't know how to tread here.

However, I have to say that if my sister came to me with this, and she "knows who they are" I would probably have unpleasant things done to them. See? Rationality right out the window.