Do you really believe that if HCR passes they'll start working on the "fixes" immediately?

I keep seeing the "pass it now, fix it later" argument used to justify passing the bill now complete with all of its faults and shortcomings.

Do you really believe that once it is law that the administration and Congress will get to work fixing it?

IF they have identified the "fixes" why not fix them now? Oh yea, because they'd never pass the 60 vote-filibuster proof test.

If they would not pass the BS 60 vote test today, how the hell can you expect them to be Fixed and passed tomorrow?

If you buy this HCR Bill and expect it to be fixed, you are fooling yourself.

has passed the bill (after the House does), President can sign into law and that's it. Having the Senate pass fixes first...etc. would alter the bill and the House would not be able to pass it.

a full court pres on the win, and they won't touch it again. Especially after the time they have had.

They will move on to the next battle, which will have nothing to do with health care.

And Im not hopeful

And it will be tucked away, alongside the Nafta promises for an immediate fix.

going so they can get started on gutting and dismantling Social Security and Medicare, all in the name of "fiscal responsibility."

After that, I think they will just declare "Mission Accomplished" and go home. They will have bled the bottom 99% of us dry by then so there won't be anything else left for them to do.

raids on medical marijuana patients and caregivers... :rofl:

I'm sure the same spineless party that capitulated this bastard into existence will stand strong and fix it in its entirety.



Need a place to send a check to?

and that the reconciliation bill will be passed as soon as the House passes the Senate bill.

:)

something, but of course they will not have the votes.

:evilgrin:

Listening to my Congressman in Tampa say as soon as he returns to Washington in January he would introduce a bill to allow medicare to negotiate drug prices with drug companies. I guess I don't remember reading about it.

9 page pdf
http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/issues/HealthCareFullPlan.pdf


page 5

"...Allow Medicare to negotiate for cheaper drug prices. The 2003 Medicare Prescription Drug
Improvement and Modernization Act bans the government from negotiating down the prices of
prescription drugs, even though the Department of Veterans Affairs’ negotiation of prescription drug prices with drug companies has garnered significant savings for taxpayers.32 Barack Obama and Joe Biden will repeal the ban on direct negotiation with drug companies and use the resulting savings, which could be as high as $30 billion,33 to further invest in improving health care coverage and quality...


Through the Exchange, any American will have the opportunity to
enroll in the new public plan or an approved private plan..."


Page 4

"Allow consumers to import safe drugs from other countries..."

Democrats were going to rush back to Washington to fix the negotiating and drug re import sections of the bill.

and welcome to DU.

:hi:

Since it will be his second term before most of the things happen. but by all means pass what we got now.

...whatever your position on this, it has mainly been a headache for the Dems, shouldn't have been, but it is...no way in an election year will they return to this issue.

Spot on Tierra_y_Libertad!

They shovel crap then high tail it away from the steaming mess. When it is pointed out to them at a later date, they will look confused (again) and pretend they know nothing about how it got there.

No such thing as "fix it later" with those spineless democrats who look after their own best interest and more likely the paid corporate whore. They're more worried about keeping their seats.

Not too much else will get accomplished this year until after elections. Especially in the Health Care arena. They may delve into Energy a bit but most will be about elections.

but there will be no "fix" of the major problem with the bill:

Selling us out to the insurance industry.

We will still be forced to purchase private insurance and we will still not have any recourse but to suck it up.

faith in the Washington crowd.

But I'm still waiting for NAFTA, Welfare Reform, the Telecommunications Act, the Patriot Act, the repeal of Glass-Steagall, No Child Left Behind, and other attacks on the American people to be "fixed."

Once they pass the Insurance Corporate Welfare Act, they'll say, "We already fixed health care. Next topic."

I'm cautiously optimistic. I would prefer an approach where we add things piece by piece, from a PR standpoint. Also, we can build a good bill that way. But at this point, we need something done. So I'll have to have some faith that our Party leaders will lead. I see some good steps.

:shrug:

We're still waiting for that one, fifteen years later.

as soon as this is done, the election season starts.

Absolutely NOT ... and I never have!

That's why I draw the line (with SINGLE-PAYER being off-the-table) at a PUBLIC OPTION being included. As soon as they're done with this... with more than a year expended on it... they'll NOT want to delve into it (HCR) again, for a long time. Besides, there are other very important pressing matters (jobs, war, environment, and energy, to name a few) waiting in the wings... and those won't get very much WORK done on them, with the 2010 election cycle being upon us.

PASS HCR, INCLUDING A PUBLIC OPTION, NOW!

There will surely be well intentioned representatives going in for the fix. Whether conservadems will be interested is another matter.

I read this the other day:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703954904575110124037066854.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsThird

ID Card for Workers Is at Center of Immigration Plan

Lawmakers working to craft a new comprehensive immigration bill are proposing a new national biometric ID card that would be required of all U.S. workers. WSJ's Laura Meckler explains the proposal and the objections from privacy advocates.

Under the potentially controversial plan still taking shape in the Senate, all legal U.S. workers, including citizens and immigrants, would be issued an ID card with embedded information, such as fingerprints, to tie the card to the worker.

- snip -

The uphill effort to pass a bill is being led by Sens. Chuck Schumer (D., N.Y.) and Lindsey Graham (R., S.C.), who plan to meet with President Barack Obama as soon as this week to update him on their work.



"Your papers please!!!"

I cannot wrap my mind around the concept of a DEMOCRAT sponsoring a bill such as this. National ID cards -- some would say, "mark of the beast?"

If Obama Oks this card, omg....I have no words....

...if the sleazy salesman promised to "fix it" later.

If they can't/won't do it now, why should anyone believe they'll do it later? It's pretty obvious that the Democrats are about to lose a bit of power, not pick up more. There's no reason to think they'd even have the *ability* to fix it later, much less the will.

Beyond that, this entire approach is flawed. They're institutionalizing the industry that *is* the problem. You can't fix that with little tweaks.

Otherwise, nope.

That's what so aggravates me. Yeah, so things are so bad that it wouldn't get fixed, according to you. But yet they'd turn right around and somehow pull single payer out of their hats if we kill it and start over? It makes no sense.

:hi:



:kick:

K&R.

Your OP is spot on the mark.

The nsurance industry already has enough lobby power to eliminate single payer and the public option. When they have their mandate, their power and influence will be even greater. They will run the country if they aren't already.

They will pass the crappy Senate bill and say, "we'll fix the crappy stuff about it later" and then leave us to be flabbergasted when 1 of the following happens:

1.) The "fix" never gets brought to the floor for a vote because they already got the bill they really wanted (& negotiated with the insurance and pharmaceutical companies).

or

2.) We lose the House in November because the American people don't want this bill without REAL robust cost controls (i.e. - a public option or Medicare buy-in) and the Republicans roll back the few good things that this crappy bill does contain once they control the agenda again (& threaten the nuclear option if we filibuster a single bill).

You put it quite eloquently: If you know what's wrong with the bill and you have a mechanism to fix it (reconciliation), why not fix it now? I'm guessing that my 1st supposition about what will happen has a lot to do with it. They sold us down the river for campaign contributions and the alleged pursuit of "bipartisanship" (which has never gotten us anything but BAD legislation) and all of the rah rah health care reform (which this bill is NOT...it's health INSURANCE reform) cheerleaders here and elsewhere will have to eat crow (although they probably wont) while the CEOs of Wellpoint and UHC and Pfizer, etc. will laugh all the way to the bank and spend all the additional American tax payer millions we've now been mandated to give them to convince our "representatives" to roll back all the reform that this bill does contain (and probably try to privatize Medicare in the bargain).

... and trust us...

We're gonna "fix this piece of shit, NAFTA, and the 'Patriot' Act" one day real soon.

Just hold your breath till it happens, ok?

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:






Does it piss anyone else off as much as me, to have these assholes insult your intelligence like this?

Like the incubator babies story at the outset of Desert Storm, it doesn't have to be true. It just has to be believed long enough that moneyed interests get their way.