The Right-Wing Of The Democratic Party-NOT Kucinich-Is The Obstacle To Passing HCR!

The right-wing of Democratic Party is the obstacle to passing health reform
by: Chris Bowers
Mon Mar 15, 2010 at 10:00

While Dennis Kucinich's opposition to the health reform bill has taken up a good deal of attention online, a look at the vote count shows that the difficulty in passing the health reform bill comes overwhelmingly from the right-wing of the party.

Using Progressive Punch and David Dayen's latest whip count, here are how the "yes," "no" and "maybe" camps break down among Democratic members of Congress:
http://www.progressivepunch.org/members.jsp?member=NY5&search=selectScore&chamber=House&zip=&x=49&y=8
http://news.firedoglake.com/2010/03/14/new-health-care-whip-count-191-yes-203-no/


The "maybe" group includes anyone from "lean no" to "lean yes."

The final group of members who need to be won over have voted pretty conservatively, both in 2009-2010 and throughout their careers. In order to win those votes over, some of the largest progressive organizations are now bringing the hammer down. MoveOn.org, whose members endorsed the bill by a vote of 83%-17%, is raising money for primary challenges against any Democrat who votes "no." SEIU is threatening to not only withdraw all support from Democrats who vote "no," but is even suggesting primary challenges, too.

more:
http://openleft.com/diary/17832/the-rightwing-of-democratic-party-is-the-obstacle-to-passing-health-reform

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7919531

He opposed Hate Crime legislation and Cap&Trade as well, not just health care. 156 Republicans have voted in line with Dems more than he has.

Why is he opposing HCR. Is the progressive agenda too progressive for him, or not progressive enough?

You seem to want to discredit DK, but I'm getting a Frank Luntz vibe from your posts.

Whenever Goldman Sachs is lobbying in force for a policy, I have deep suspicions about it. Carbon tax? Great! Cap & Trade? Well, what did you think the next bubble would be built on?

has escaped you?

'Republicans voted more often with Democrats '.... of course they did, because Democrats are no longer real Democrats! Thank you for illustrating it so clearly. What a shame it is.

And thank god for Kucinich and a few others who are fighting both factions, the rightwing of the Dem Party and Republicans. He may not succeed as with the current crop of Democrats and the DLC leadership of what was once the party of the people, he is sadly, out-numbered.

'He opposed Hate Crime legislation' ~ Why don't you explain why? Really, I could do it, but I'm giving you a chance to stop lying by omission and explain what it was that prevented him from voting for that particular bill.

I have already provided facts that show Kucinich to be as effective as most other Democrats and don't mind providing it again. Lies by omission. Few Democrats had much of a record during the Bush administraion or the ten years of Republican rule. Almost all Republicans had a better record than most Democrats during that period. So, what is your point?

if you compare him to the corporate whore democrats

It says a lot when an actual progressive is criticized by an Obama supporter more than the DLC, the Blue Dogs, or even the Republicans.

something about "orders' and "lockstep", but I thought better of it.

more to the point: with all the stonewalling by blue dogs, the administration was all appeasement and bending over to court them. But one progressive opposes the bill because its a bailout for the insurance lobby, and the administration tries to humiliate him publicly, and Rahm's Raiders make a full tilt astroturf run on the progressive boards trying to make people hate Dennis.

at least, that's how it appears.

thing.

So, it's okay to accept that someone is a progressive because they say so--and then they can just vote however they want?

His votes are consistent with the 'way he talks'. Unlike Obama, who talked eloquently about the importance of the American People's right NOT to be spied on, and then voted FOR the FISA Bill. He also talked eloquently about why mandates were NOT something he supported, and then did a complete flip-flop on that also. He spoke out against the War in Iraq, BEFORE he was a Senator, and then went on to vote for every bill that funded it.

He is now speaking out about the 'evil Insurance Corps' after taking more than $20 million from them to help get him elected and is pushing to do as they demanded, make sure there is no PO in the Health Care Bill.

The Insurance Corps thank you for your support.

I thank Kucinich for his integrity and honesty and for his votes, against Bush's War and showing that he votes the way he talks, against funding it. Against the FISA Bill, again showing that he votes the way he talks. And against mandated insurance with no PO for all the reasons he has given when he talked about it.

Kucinich is a real Democrat, not a phony war-supporting DLCer like so many of his colleagues.

It is the DINO's and you and yours keep trying to divert attention away from the fact that it is the same corporate assholes that ruined any chance at real reform from the beginning and are still trying to push a tax on Americans paid directly to private corporations.

Somebody acknowledges the reality of the situation and has come up with a workable plan.

Surely both are obstacles. Do the "right wing" Democrats get two votes each when Dennis only has one?

For a Right Wing Democrat it would take a worse bill for the American people. For a progressive it would take a better bill for the American people.

Yeah, I see a difference. The Blue Dogs pushed the bill to the right to get some of their votes. And they seem to get a pass from many here. "Oh, but we had to do that cause of Stupak, Lieberman, Nelson and on and on but we saw the bill move not one inch in response to pressure from the left. What's up with that?

him, black people, anyone who isn't on their "team", etc. The Blue dogs oppose it because they are republicans who ran in Democratic districts. The Left-those who TRULY care about American lives-will vote "no" because the bill is crap. It serves the insurance companies, does not curb costs, and doesn't do a thing to improve REAL access to health care (try getting that bargain insurance to PAY A CLAIM)! The bill is the kind of extortion for private gain that will ruin the Democratic party come November.

is an obstacle - Republicans, Blue Dogs, Dennis. Doesn't matter where they are coming from, a no vote is a no vote and they all have the same effect at the end of the day.

Last time I heard they were only targeting centrist nos.

who made sure this bill had no REFORM left in it. :puke:

k/r for Kooch!

has said he is willing to be the vote that kills reform. That means, if the RW of the party is one vote short, Kucinich is willing to provide it.

Hence the root of the problem.

Social conservatives and cultural conservatives are very, very different.

Culturally conservative Dems just want us to be fiscally responsible. Of course there's that abortion crap, but that's because they are collectivists and take a few orders from their Republicans counterparts. Yet they are no different from cultural liberals in that respect, as the Iraq War showed.

That is why they voted for it and they voted to continue it by voting for every supplemental to fund it.

The Democratic Party has been infiltrated. People like Kucinich are the only hope we have of saving the Party from becoming just another branch of the Republican Party.

And people on this site, claiming to be Democrats, are supporting the rightwing infiltrators of the Democratic Party. It's probably a good thing that we now see the problem clearly. The problem during the Bush administration when Democrats voted along with Republicans for the war, for the supplementals, FOR Bush's SC nominees was people couldn't understand why they were doing it. It was puzzling and frustrating back then, but now it's out in the open. We understand what happened. Rahm Emanuel was the first open confirmation that this administration was a DLC administration. That is why they threw Van Jones under the bus, Acorn too and why they care more about what Republicans think than real Democrats like Kucinich.

'Fiscally Responsible'? Like bailing out Goldman Sachs? While cutting aid for the poor? 'Fiscally Responsible IS a rightwing phrase which means 'cut off all aid to the poor, while funding Wall St. criminals and the MIC'. It is so obvious now there really is no excuse for anyone not to be aware of what is going on.

See post #33.

""There is no Democratic right wing.""

The H*ll there isn't, it's called the DLC. Corporatists all the way, corporatists are right wing.

against it?

companies and at the same time, say there isn't enough greed. :shrug:

to him. Provide a link to that claim. A safe request since you cannot.

Rovian twisting of facts, DLCers studied Rove, and it's instructive to see the same half dozen people here attempting to out-Rove Rove against a Democratic Congressman.

Congratulations, with each post you make, you reveal yourself and only make Kucinich look better. And you still haven't answered my question about why you continue to put words in the mouth of Rep. Grayson.

the teabaggers.

what Dennis Kucinich and others free from corporate interest promote.

Dennis is not my congressman but we gladly donate (and will continue to do so) because he fights for the average American.

Are you even interested in what Kucinich is backing on HC? If so, read this:

HEALTH CARE AS A CIVIL RIGHT

Whereas, Universal Health Care was proposed by President Teddy Roosevelt in 1912; and

Whereas today, nearly 100 years later, 47 million Americans are uninsured and another 50 million are underinsured bringing great social and economic harm to the American family; and

Whereas, HR 676, authored by Congressmen John Conyers and Dennis Kucinich provides for Medicare for All, a universal, single payer, not-for-profit health care system which means the end of premiums, copays and deductibles; and

Whereas we are already paying for a universal standard of care but are not getting it because one of every three dollars in the health care system goes to the activities of the for-profit insurance system; and

Whereas HR676 firmly establishes health care as a Civil Right, consistent with the Preamble to the Constitution of the United States and Article 1, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution which defines a purpose of government "to promote the General Welfare," now therefore,

http://healthcare.kucinich.us/petition/

Fuck the teabaggers..where are their protests now? crickets..

Lets focus on Obama the leader of the Dem party that has sold us out to the insurance boys......

Lets focus on Obama and all the promises he has broken to his base..

Lets focus on Obama and his enhancing and furthering Bush's policies..

Thats right GWBush's and Cheny's policies!
( FISA , WAR , WALL STREET , PATRIOT ACT, busting teachers unions..taxing union health care benefits..is their any in his base he hasn't attacked yet???....THE LIST GOES ON AND ON!)

I STILL WANT TO KNOW WHY A CEO OF AN HEALTH INSURANCE GROUP..TOOK AWAY MY STATES DELEGATES.

AND DON'T BELIEVE ME..LOOK IT THE FUCK UP!

a fucking CEO..of a major health care corporation!

explain that..teabaggers be damned!

we have bigger fish to fry don't we Bernie..but you already know all this ..don't you Bernie!!:mad: :mad: :mad:

Keep up your distractions Bernie..but most of us get wtf is going on!!..

riddle me this........

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James Roosevelt, who was chair of the Rules and Bylaws Committee that decided to dock Michigan and Florida half of their
delegates and award 4 of the delegates Clinton won in Michigan to Obama, as well as all of the uncommitted delegates,
is the CEO of a health insurance company – Tufts Healthcare. Okay? Got that? The guy who made sure that Obama had the necessary
to delegates to win the nomination – even to the point of assigning delegates another candidate won to him arbitrarily –
is the CEO of a health insurance firm.
And what Roosevelt wants in a health insurance reform, is a reform that relies entirely upon private insurers.
He does not want a public option. He wants a plan like Massachusetts has
: http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2009/04/09/healthcare_lets_build_on_what_we_know/

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do some googling..you will find lots on James Roosevelt, Jr. and the DNC Ways and Means committee on the delegate decisions in Michigan and Florida..
http://search.aol.com/aol/search?q=James+Roosevelt%2C+who+was+chair+of+the+Rules+and+Bylaws+Committee+that+decided+to+dock+Michigan+and+Florida+half+of+their+delegates+and+award+4+of+the+delegates+Clinton+won+in+Michigan+to+Obama&page=2&nt=SG2&oreq=66ea2dd1351a45ce9c7de9133d8c39d8&s_it=keyword_rollover

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http://www.tuftshealthplan.com/visitors/visitors.php?sec=about_us&content=senior_management_group

Senior Management Group
Our mission is to set the standard for outstanding quality health care, service, and value. Our dedication to excellence makes us one of the leading health plans in the nation. Meet our senior management group.

James Roosevelt, Jr., President and Chief Executive Officer


es Roosevelt, Jr.
President and Chief Executive Officer
Mr. Roosevelt joined Tufts Health Plan in 1999 as senior vice president and general counsel and held that position until June 2005, when he became president and chief executive officer. As the general counsel, he presided over the legal department and the company's compliance, privacy and government relations functions.

Before joining Tufts Health Plan, Mr. Roosevelt was the associate commissioner for Retirement Policy for the Social Security Administration in Washington, D.C. He has also served as chief legal counsel for the Massachusetts Democratic Party and as co-chair of the Rules and By-laws Committee of the Democratic National Committee, for which he currently serves on the Change Commission. Mr. Roosevelt spent 10 years as partner at Choate, Hall and Stewart in Boston. He is past chairman of the board of trustees for the Massachusetts Hospital Association, past president of the American Health Lawyers Association and past chairman of the board of trustees for Mount Auburn Hospital. Currently, Mr. Roosevelt serves as chairman of the board of directors for Massachusetts Association of Health Plans, and as a member of the board of directors and co-chair of the policy committee at America’s Health Insurance Plans. He is a member of the Massachusetts Heath Care Quality and Cost Council and the board of directors for the Rhode Island Quality Institute. Mr. Roosevelt is also a board member at Emmanuel College and the Kenneth B. Schwartz Center, and is co-chair of the board of directors for the Tufts Health Care Institute. In November 2008, President-elect Barack Obama appointed Mr. Roosevelt to his transition team to co-chair a review of the Social Security Administration.

Mr. Roosevelt received his J.D. from Harvard Law School and his A.B. with honors in government from Harvard College. He has also completed the Advanced Management Program at Harvard Business School.

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http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/03.aspx

The DNC weighs in on Michigan

Posted: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 10:40 AM by Mark Murray
Filed Under: Democrats

From NBC's Mark Murray

DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee co-chairs Alexis Herman and James Roosevelt issued the following memo to members of the committee:

"We have recently been asked whether the legislation as proposed by Michigan would fit within the framework of the National Party’s Delegate Selection Rules. Our review of this legislation indicates that it would, in fact, fit within the framework of the Rules if, it were, passed by the state legislature and used by the Michigan State Democratic Party as the basis of drafting a formal Delegate Selection Plan. If a formal Delegate Selection Plan is received we will convene a meeting of the RBC to consider such a Plan."

up to them. rec'd

No words, just mirrors. We could cover our signs with aluminum foil. Added advantage: recycle for our hats later ;).

the wars, wiretapping, etc. were ALWAYS Nader's fault--never that of the the ConservaDems and skeert milquetoasts who actually voted for the wars, wiretapping, tabling of impeachment, etc. This neatly absolved Karen Hughes and Jeb of 2000 (ignoring the idea of election theft, or relegating it to "kook country"), took BBV off the table, and reinforced totalitarian democracy/inverted totalitarianism by demanding unity, sitting down and shutting up, obedience to party authorities (since they were the Only Hope) even to the point of cultish fanaticism, blaming the non-center left/ugly protesters/"provocateur" Black Bloc for all the country's ills, insistence that third parties have "no right" to run (mostly because they were arrogant and selfish and would throw an election even if it meant billions dead)

und so weiter

...there is nothing left.

not the solution. No amount of spin can change that fact

the job of the people who sent them to represent them!

That is how a democracy works..but you wouldn't know that would you..you want group think! at it's worse!

and you want a sell out of the American people..so it seems!

what it is.

It's "Go Along" people like YOU who are the problem.

if you are voting yes you one of the corporate whores.

Congress is a corporate whore house

the repugs are voting no just to oppose Obama

Kucinich is voting no because this bill is worse than nothing

No progressive bill is too good for him to vote for.

They'd never have the guts to admit it, but their actions make it clear. There's no other reason they would go after the Left the way they do if they agreed with the issues. They don't. They like Center/Right positions and will defend them vocally, and Left positions can go jump in a lake. They'll tell you they support certain things, but in most cases it's bullshit cover for their own lack of convictions and ideals. They'll latch onto the "safe" Leftist positions, but stuff like gay rights and ending wars...nope, no can do. When they need those votes they'll get back to us, but that's the only time they care...when votes are on the line.

Fuck 'em. :)

:-(

is indistinguishable from the Republican Neoconservative agenda,"
Dennis Kucinich

Howard Dean once referred to DLC as the republican wing of the Democratic party.

than any other issue.

Kucinich scares them because he is effective. When he explains his positions on issue, he is extremely effective. If he wasn't, we would not be seeing all this vitriol against him.

in the past 20 years. The DLCs ideas are no different than the GOPs ideas.

...they're happy to work with right. They have common goals. With the left, not so much.

A New York Times/CBS poll found that 65% of respondents want a public health care option, while only 26% opposed such a plan.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/25/poll-public-option-favore_n_299669.html

............................................

found that 72 percent of those questioned supported a government-administered insurance plan -- something like Medicare

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/06/poll-overwhelming-majority-of-americans-support-public-insurance-option.php

...................................................

EVEN SCOTT BROWN VOTERS WANT THE PUBLIC OPTION, WANT DEMOCRATS TO BE BOLDER

VOTERS OVERWHELMINGLY SUPPORT THE PUBLIC OPTION

* 82% of Obama voters who voted for Brown
* 86% of Obama voters who stayed home

http://act.boldprogressives.org/cms/sign/mapollresults

Thanks for the thread, kpete.:thumbsup:

We expect conservadems and republicans to not give a shit about people having their health care coverage rescinded on a technicality a week after they are diagnosed with cancer, or to not really care if our health care system will bankrupt the country.

But I am disappointed in Kucinich, because he seems to feel the options are single payer or do nothing. And for many of us there is a wide range of options between those 2 that are far more palatable than 'doing nothing'.

I'd support Kucinich over a blue dog, but he seems to think things should be perfect or nothing at all according to 538. And there are consequences to supporting nothing at all, it means abuses keep happening.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/03/stats-say-kucinich-may-be-least.html

We need pressure from the left to push legislation leftward. I am all for that, and all for progressives using their leverage to push legislation in that direction. But this bill is important. Health care is bankrupting our country, destroying or economic competitiveness and destroying the middle class. And saying bills either need to be perfect or lets just do nothing really isn't going to work.

Point is, this really isn't the time to be doing this. This bill has a lot of good in it


It expands public health insurance. It does so by expanding medicaid, closing the medicare donut hole, offering public subsidies to buy insurance, expanding public funding for community health clinics


It improves health care. It advances IT and health infrastructure, it combats pre-existing conditions and rescissions, it allows people to negotiate in groups for lower rates, it cements in the public mind that health care is a right not a privledge, it offers preventative care, it lets kids say on their parents plan until age 26


It also cuts a trillion off the budget over the next 20 years. It will probably save private individuals and employers another trillion or more over the same period.




My view is, pass the bill then work on single payer on te state level and expansion of public plans (medicare, medicaid, SCHIP, etc) on the federal level. People are going to work on single payer on the state level no matter what happens with this bill. But at least with the bill some consumer protections will be established.

He compromised already on Single Payer, so it's incorrect to say that he wants single payer of nothing.

As for passing this bill and then hoping to get Congress to pass another bill giving the states the right to choose a Single Payer system? Kucinich already introduced an amendment to do just that. He got bi-partisan support for it. It was killed by this administration. We will get nothing if this bill passes, and anyone who thinks that's even a remote possibility is going to be very disappointed.

The INS. Corps do not want a PO, and definitely NOT Single Payer. Congress does what the Ins. Industry tells them to do. They write the bills, they pay members of Congress millions.

Who is going to introduce that bill, since it has already been rejected, other than Kucinich? The WH killed Dorgan's amendment also, which would have extended Medicare to people 55 and over. And they betrayed him when they did so, and lied about it afterwards. I wish you were right and that there is any chance of doing what you suggest but any hope of that is already gone, at least as long as the current leadership is in power.

EVER kept their word? What will stop them from raising the entire cost of health care in order to increase the value of their fixed percentage cut? It is just inconceivable that things will change while for-profit-insurers run the show.

I don't think of this bill as the alpha/omega of all health care bills. But health improvement has occurred in steps. Medicaid, medicare, SCHIP, community health centers, regulation, etc. were all bills that were added and improved on. None was the final say on health reform.

This bill definitely won't be the final step in improving health care, but it will be a move in the right direction.

Prices are still going to double in another decade, and the system is still headed for collapse (you can't expect families to pay 25k for health insurance in 10 years when median household income will probably only be 60k or so). But at least in the meantime we will have some consumer regulations.

period. The reason Dennis is coming under fire is because some expect him to vote like a progressive.

:patriot:

:kick:

DK should be shamed by all.

this bill is crap

it's a corporate giveaway. Obama has made back door deals with big pharma and big health care and he promised no single payer, no public option

the repugs vote no just to oppose Obama

Kucinich votes no because this bill is crap, more power to him.

Spoken like a true black-and-white partisan.

... means that a "moderate" must be pandered to for that vote.

:nuke:

Read it and learn "pragnatists." (AKA: Republicans in Democratic disguises.)

Where are all the Democrats? What does it mean to be a Democrat anymore?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7922876

K & R

There was a time when we didn't have to hold up appreciation threads for such democratic warriors
as Howard Dean, Barry Sanders, Dennis Kucinich, Unions,Michael Moore, Teachers,Gays and Peace Warriors such as Cindy Sheehan!

Democratic Underground has become a cess pool for Obama's New Democratic Party
and a bulls eye for true democrats. Well I'm fighting back, I'm not moving along

This is MY HOUSE !
Phony Dems NOT Welcome !

when one's distress is too uncomfortable to own/state/acknowledge. Common trait among those who come from dysfunctional and/or alcoholic homes. It was done to them, they haven't learned to own their own feelings and to communicate their owned feelings to others. Note the use of "they"... It's rampant on DU.

If he opposes this version, I oppose it, too. Flame away.

the obstacle is the left gives 1000 radio stations a free speech free ride as if all that coordinated uncontested repetition has no effect.

instead it launders lobbyist talking points all day long, is the source of the teabagger's 'education' , distorts all issues, and constantly attacks all progressive candidates and causes.

conservadems are limbaugh dems - RW radio creates/coordinates the constituency and intimidation that enables or scares them and dominates politics in those rural states. right now all over the country local RW radio stations are influencing who gets through the GOP primaries while determining who's too progressive for the dem primaries.

it was limbaugh and sons who beat clinton HCR, not harry and louise, and it is the reason single payer and now public option are 'unacceptable'.

this is just one more political disaster the 'strategists' and analysts will blame on populist teabaggers and lobbyists and 'fiscally conservative blue dogs', who are largely the product of RW talk radio being ignored by those it attacks all day, because it gives them headaches to listen to it, because they'd rather listen to music, vote, and then blog. who listens to that silly radio? about 50mil, a crowd the size of the one that voted for obama, and most have no alternatives for politics while driving or working.

there will be no public option because the left is collectively an idiot when it comes to radio.