Kucinich & Moore are wrong: Listen to Natoma Canfield

I find myself seething with frustration at two of the people I admire most in the realm of progressive issues and politics: Michael Moore and Dennis Kucinich. Watching Countdown on MSNBC last night brought it all to a head. I listened to President Obama tell the story of Natoma Canfield, a woman priced out of the health insurance market only to be diagnosed with leukemia.

Then I listened to Ms. Canfield herself, speaking from her hospital bed after a day of treatments, answering Lawrence O'Donnell's question about what she would tell her Congressman, Dennis Kucinich, who says he'll vote against this legislation because it doesn't go far enough.

Natoma Canfield said simply this:

"Well, it just seems to me that everything needs a start"

And with that, a self-employed house cleaner and cancer patient in Ohio spoke more eloquently and with more wisdom than either Michael Moore or Dennis Kucinich ever have on this issue.

First, if you haven't, watch this segment of President Obama yesterday, telling Natoma Canfield's story. It starts at about 2:05.

---------------------------------------------

http://www.eclectablog.com/2010/03/kucinich-moore-are-wrong-listen-to.html

Thanks for this post. :patriot:

as Michael Moore suggested. A pre-existing condition renders coverage sooner.

I too watched the segment Gman. And, saying "no" this this reform bill is anything but heroic as Moore suggests.

SEC. 1101. IMMEDIATE ACCESS TO INSURANCE FOR UNINSURED INDIVIDUALS WITH A PREEXISTING CONDITION.

excerpt:
(a) IN GENERAL.—Not later than 90 days after the date of enactment of this Act, the Secretary shall establish
a temporary high risk health insurance pool program to provide health insurance coverage for eligible individuals
during the period beginning on the date on which such program is established and ending on January 1, 2014.

excerpt:
(d) ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUAL.—An individual shall be deemed to be an eligible individual for purposes of this section if such individual—
(1) is a citizen or national of the United States or is lawfully present in the United States (as determined in accordance with section 1411);
(2) has not been covered under creditable coverage (as defined in section 2701(c)(1) of the Public Health Service Act as in effect on the date of enactment of this Act) during the 6-month period prior to the date on which such individual is applying for coverage through the high risk pool; and
(3) has a pre-existing condition, as determined in a manner consistent with guidance issued by the
Secretary.

courtesy of Quietamerican.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7924841&mesg_id=7925228

The argument that people with pre-existing condition won't be covered until after 2012 has been constantly thrown out, and spokes people for HCR have definitely lacked in their communicative abilities

Democrats had better start learning to get the message out or it will be disaster

This particular woman will be unable to pay the costs!!

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She will get coverage, but how will her pay out be different?

I read the bill too and it appears as if that part isn't dealt with.

Cost controls are also included in the plan, and cost increases are limited and must be justified.

Here is more info on the subsidies JM.

http://healthreform.kff.org/SubsidyCalculator.aspx

Nate Silver analyzed the Senate bill in December and commented on the issue.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/12/why-progressives-are-batshit-crazy-to.html

help via subsidies or the medicaid (A PUBLIC OPTION) expansion under new reform.

that's not health care for all -- it's game playing for the benefit of corporatism

compliments of Obama/Rahma --

you going forward. Best of luck getting informed on health care reform.

:hi:

Ah, gee . . . I'll miss you and your corporate outlook!!



:evilgrin:

queens. --or on the gov dole. It is horrible when that happens. and I think it will.

in turning it into a tiered system based on INCOME testing!!

Another little fascist idea of the Repug is to disconnect women from their

husband's benefits!!

There is little excuse for the horrendous messaging on this bill.

"An individual shall be deemed to be an eligible... if such individual—

has not been covered under creditable coverage ... during the 6-month period prior to the date on which such individual is applying for coverage..."

She WAS covered just a month ago, so she is NOT eligible - which is the whole problem with this monstrosity - there is so much verbiage that it will be construed to mean whatever the team of lawyers hired by big insurance wants it to mean.

WE MUST HAVE AN ALTERNATIVE TO BIG INSURANCE!

number 2 could be a problem also.

How will she afford to buy into the pool for the denied? She had coverage and dropped it over the cost. So clearly, you know the cost of the new program for her. What is that cost? If you don't know, then you are making stuff up out of thin air to serve your agenda.
How much is it? Does Canfield have the ability to pay that amount?

under the new legislation. She has said as much, so I do know.

We need UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE ... where every American is treated equally!!!

Not risk pools --

Not subsidies for some poor, near poor, almost poor, about to be poor!!

Not subsidies for insurance companies to pay themselves more BONUSES!!

We need a system where every citizen is treated equally -- regardless of INCOME!!

What will, is passing this bill.

for private profits!!!

UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE, EVERYONE IN, NO ONE OUT --!!

If insurance was not tied to jobs, employers could once again give decent wages and even be able to hire more people.

Stop with the poster slogans and take some time to research the bill.

http://www.kff.org/

gold and platinum represent? They are tiers which will divide people into the have, the have mores, the have somes, and the have nones. Bronze is only a 60% actuarial plan. Platinum is 90%. Which plan do you think has the least co-pays and deductibles? Which plan do you think covers the most? And which plan do you think the people getting subsidies will be able to attempt to afford?

Everyone? Not even the whores pushing this corporate bullshit is claiming that.

Choice!

as many of them would put it --

But, hey, that paperwork and bonuses ... costly stuff!!

Why the hell would I want the same tiered system that's killing people NOW?

I'm done. You got yours and the rest of us can go to hell. Noted.

either, so what's your point? That people shouldn't have the same choice I and Dennis Kucinich enjoy?

Did they change the definition of the phrase "can't afford" to include someone who is paying something? Last I checked "can't afford" means the money isn't there.

Thank you for pointing that out.

I think Nixon had a better health care plan than this!!

Why won't the UHC/single-payer people provide us with a list of those votes?

When those go into effect I do not know but the whole point is to make Insurance affordable for people exactly like her..

We should not have a system based on INCOME levels -- nor a system which does

anything but treat all Americans equally . . . regardless of INCOME!!

Insurance companies who Dennis pays monthly for HIS health insurance.

MEDICARE FOR ALL would create 2.3 million jobs --

and save us all money --

Why spend taxpayer money on providing 30% profits for insurance companies!!????

PLUS this "health care deform" is INCOME based . . . a tiered-system --

Let's do what every other nation has done and provide EQUAL treatment for every citizen!!

jobs. Again, your profit margin is WRONG if you consider the new legislation limits profits to 15%.

And where are these 4 million jobs guaranteed -- GAO do a study on that?

So -- let's see . . . under Medicare we would only need to pay 2.3 million new workers

to provide this care -- but under insurance companies we'd need another 1.7 million to

do the same jobs?

Well, that's the way insurance companies work, isn't it -- less care, more paperwork!!

Do you get back 85% of what you pay for insurance in health care (plus what your employer pays)? I don't. I can't afford to use it sometimes. Being in the health care field I rely on favors from peers etc. If you don't get back the full 85% of your costs in health care.... where does that money go? They also get discounted rates from providers so the 85% in health care you are allegedly getting back is not what they are paying for the services, or what your providers are receiving. ... Where does that money go?

and that the insurance companies also profit in hidden ways.

in the interest of the people to prop up a for profit insurance model in order to save the jobs in an industry that kills people.

Talk about a ridiculous argument.

and that's not just in the insurance market. I'm not interested in "propping up" insurance markets. I'm interested in effective, efficient reform now. Health Insurance companies have a mass mechanism in place to help us with reform.

You can't fix the problem by further entrenching what causes the problem in the first place.

with our help? I suspect it's because he prefers having coverage to NOT having coverage? If health insurance is only a "problem" how can we reconcile the fact that having coverage saves 45,000 lives annually?

Which are all defined in the bill you haven't read.

Unregulated capitalism is merely organized crime --

and this legislation is simply more of it!!

It's the exact opposite.

Bizarro DU.

and as we have seen from the criminal behavior of the insurance companies --

described by Obama as "evil" -- they remain potential criminals --

We've seen no regulation yet --

and, again, "for profit" health care industry has been ripping off government

for decades!! Who's guaranteeing they'll change?

Or maybe they'll move the Toyota regulators over to watch the insurance industry?

Or maybe those who were in charge of keeping an eye on our banks?


:rofl:

don't take time to read much of anything. ;)

read the details --

you have not had to DROP your insurance -- others have had to --

including people going bankrupt and losing homes!!

And penalties that are so low that it's cheaper for the insurance companies to pay the fines than to actually pay for care?

Must be nice on Fantasy Island where the insurance companies would NEVER try to find ways around the law and the law has been written in a way to avoid such activity.

:eyes:

(unless she qualifies for Medicare) with a private plane she will still be on the hook for out of pocket expenses. The House bill allows out of pockets for a single person of $5,000/year.

It doesn't matter how "affordable" the insurance is if you still can't afford care.

Of course Medicaid will drop your ass if you make one penny too much and demand that you pay them back. But don't mention that, it'll kill their buzz.

Care based not on income but on need!!

UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE, EVERYONE IN, NO ONE OUT --!!

Stop the blatant desire to misinform. It may bite you soon if Dennis Kucinich changes his mind.

and subsidize patients and insurance companies?

This is a for profit system -- a distorted system based on NOT treating every

citizen equally --

Health care is a human right -- let's act like it --

and not make "welfare" clients of some of our citizens!!

MEDICARE FOR ALL, EVERYONE IN, NO ONE OUT --

limit profits to 15%. Just 5% above what companies in the Netherlands enjoy.

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

In other countries for profit insurance only covers extras like private hospital rooms and cosmetic surgery and the like. They don't allow the insurance companies to profit off of basic health care.

some of their profits, means that they'll be forced to serve *better us or we'll move into the another system of care. See this article from Ezra Klein.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/03/the_state-based_single_payer_s.html

*new regulations will also help achieve this goal.

From Nixon's Kaiser forward to now -- it's about paperwork and denial --

We'll move on when hell freezes over --

MIC . . . have we moved on? No, we still have Obama/Bush wars bankrupting the Treasury --

Trade agreements . . . have we moved on? No, we have jobs flying out of America so that

corporations can "harvest slave labor" --

Capitalism and it's corruptions -- see any re-regulation there? Glass-Steagall?

No --

and cementing these corrupt corporaitons into our health care system is simply more criminal

activity!

HC should NEVER operate that way.

Insurance companies make their money taking yours and DENYING care. They won't be forced to do a damn thing there are loopholes big enough to drive several trucks through.

And "pragmatism" when they suck the corporate dick?

still you can't put anything like ideology before people. No amount of talk about corporations will change that.

From the advocates for single-payer at the beginning of the process.

Instead, they were blocked from appearing and arrested and dragged out on orders from our "Democratic" senators.

We also would have gotten a public option and other real reforms, but the ideology of privatization intervened, deals were struck behind closed doors for political and monetary expedienct, and we all got sold out.

Including this poor woman and thousands like here, who will continue to DIE while waiting to get "coverage," or be DENIED "coverage" because they can't afford or qualify for it, under this new bill.

It sucks, and it sucks because "ideology was put before people."

so by not giving them a forum to speak, some sort of wrong has been committed.

It would be the citizenry that would have been informed.

Potentially threatening the back room deals that have defined and determined this process from the first.

how many of those people need to be educated about what a single payer system is?

What exactly are you arguing here?

Do you think it was a good thing to exclude presentation of the most efficient and expansive system of national health care from the debate on day one?

with tons of time and resources spent educating the general public. It's not going to be enacted because some "expert" testifies about it before Congress.

And the idea that Obama/Rahma doesn't "get it" --

are foggy about it -- would be hilarious, if not so tragically sad!!!


In fact, despite the lies of the US Catholic Bishops, the Catholis also want

a government run health system and they want it to include reproductive care --

post-natal/pre-natal -- and they want it to cover CONTRACEPTION and ABORTION!!!

Catholic women have just as many abortions as any other women -- pro-choice!

Anti-US Bishops/Pope?


Corporations, Pre-BRIBING and Pre-OWNING our elected officials for the

sake of corrupt capitalism!!

they very well understand what it's about --

And they understand that pre-BRIBED and pre-OWNED elected officials have been

set up to block it!!



In fact, Catholics want it by large majority -- and they want reproductive services

included -- contraception and abortion!

When Latinos/Latinas are included, the majorities are even higher!

HCR will disappear from the collective conciousness before the summer. No member of Congress will want to go through this year-long slog again in their career.

then we agree.

This is not a system which treats everyone equally --

It's a system based on the old GOP gimmick of income testing --

Why?

Let's just proceed on the basis of "non-profit" health care -- and provide

the care that each citizen needs, treating each citizen equally?

UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE FOR ALL - - EVERYONE IN, NO ONE OUT!!

As good as Medicare for all sounds how do you expect it to pass without the votes necessary to pass it?

You seem to think Obama can unilaterally make insurances nonprofit.

Let's once hear Obama say MEDIDARE FOR ALL, EVERYONE IN, NO ONE OUT --

and then let's see what happens?

The public already understands the difference --

Amd they want a government run health care like MEDICARE.

Meanwhile, Catholics also want a government run health care plan and they

want it to include reproductive serives . . . including contraception and abortion!!

How would Medicare for all be passed in the Senate without 60 votes?

Pelosi's taking a call from "Rome."

The Vatican and US Catholic Bishops -- and Stupak -- are taking positions which

Catholis themselves disagree with.

It is another attempt by the RCC to control their own members -- and all of society --

by forcing their influence over our government.


Make Repugs filibuster -- 51 votes to pass!!

Sorry but if we wait until we have 51 members supporting it I doubt Democrats would be the majority any more.

The GOP would be delighted if Dems put up legislation they didn't have the votes for.

As far as the abortion issue, it's nothing but a smoke screen to derail the health reform bill and divide people on social issues.

Many Republicans also want MEDICARE FOR ALL -- and would be pushing the GOP to

go for it!!

Abortion is a legitimate issue for male-supremacist religions which are not only

supported these days by the fanatical GOP, but by many fanatics in the Dem Party.

Obama, in fact, is enlarging our taxpayer contributions to "faith-based" organizations!

So, I disagree.

Specter wants to cut another $1 billion from Medicare --

Just controlling and stopping the "for profit" corporations thefts from

Medicare would make a huge difference!!

EVERYONE OF THE PHARMACEUTICAL corporations has been involved in ripping off

government and highly fined. Repeated. Including for "conspiracy"!

This cirminal behavior however never causes them to be permanently or even

temporarily barred from participating in Medicare/Medicaid again!!

Why not? Seen the latest criminal rip off by Pfizer? Were they being "regulated"?

How did it happen? They were only caught because Whistle Blowers reported them!!

will not go away. There will be just as many Natoma Canfields as there are today over the next decade. The most frustrating part of it will be that all these future Natoma Caanfield's will be telling their sad story of NOT getting treated while holding onto their paid-in-full, mandated, insurance certificate.

And i wish I could rec this response...I hate it how this woman is being used...I'd like her to tell me what is in the bill...she's taking it on blind faith that it will help her and others like her...it won't.

by the President and the media at that point.

terrority where I could see so-called "unecessary" tests not being done, and people suffering the consequences of that

:)

...trust me - words that will haunt you for a long, long time.

As people have pointed out, there's a fair amount of assumption going on that this particular case, or really most cases, will some how suddenly not exist. Healthcare still costs alot, even if you have insurance. You know the GOP and others will be running around finding all those folks that are still hurting, or worse are getting shoved around from one type of coverage to another and falling between cracks for months and years.

I suspect in the short term the bad stories will overwhelm the positive ones, especially leading into November.

UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE, EVERYONE IN, NO ONE OUT --

NO ONE TREATED DIFFERENTLY!!

will have been effectively roadblocked by the legislation being proposed today for decades to come, if ever. I believe that tying America to a for-profit system of private insurance is the main thrust of this legislation.

WTF are Kucinich and Moore thinking? They both have all the health care they could ever need. They are both set for life so no wonder they don't give a shit about people like Natoma Canfield. They have the luxury to wait as long as they want until what they want is absolutely T-perfect (and they would probably still complain.)

because...

and replace it with single payer. Moore and DK don't understand this basic concept. Their purity trumps reality.

There are better, legal ways of doing this. Passing a basic reform framework is the first step.

Even in the UK you can buy private insurance, I know this for a fact since I have considerable family in the UK..

If that's not what he meant maybe he should clarify his position. Until he does, that's what he stands for.

We don't OWE insurance companies a living ... an existence!!

There is no reason to include them in health care reform --

Have you not heard obama talking about the "evils" of insurance companies --

have you not heard clients of insurance companies talking about it?

This is a distortion of true health care --

based on unequal treatment of citizens -- a class based system with Income testing!!

It's an end-around strategy that can actually be achieved, not a nuclear attack that would be labelled "communist" by the media.

There is no need for insurance companies "for profit" health care --

MEDICARE FOR ALL, EVERYONE IN, NO ONE OUT --

Invisible ink -- or do we take Rahm's word for it?





By Tom Tomorrow
http://www.salon.com/entertainment/comics/this_modern_w...


action is my duty, reward is not my concern

But I bet he won't..

And I bet you won't raise the issue.

everyone treated equally --

No INCOME TESTING . . . an old GOP gimmick to turn some recipients into "welfare clients" --!!!

UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE, EVERYONE IN, NO ONE OUT!!

Why is it that private for-profit insurance cannot go the way of the Dodo in America?

While I have no idea WHY you feel it would be illegal since you only made a comment but didn't explain it, I would answer that whatever law you are relying on to make this claim COULD be changed.

And start selling government built cars as your only choice?

I certainly hope not.

It stuns me that people don't understand this basic concept. There are legal ways to implement single payer in this context, and IMO that is exactly the plan.

Apples and oranges.

privatizing the Police and Fire Departments since, under this logic, they would seem to bee "illegal" in their present form.

Talk about apples and oranges.

I'm not against socializing HC, just against governments shutting down industries by force. The precedent that would set is scary as hell.

They don't mention cars - - nor the oil industry -- except in the context of

Global Warming, destruction of the planet!!

insurance companies would still be free to participate -- it's called competition!!

You remember that, right?

Meanwhile, had we not bailed out the corrupt automobile capitalists, they would have

had to shut themselves down!! Did you perhaps notice that????

Capitalism is a ridiculous "King-of-the-Hill" system intended to move the wealth and

natural resources from the many to the few . . . and it accomplishes that quite successfully.

Especially when unregulated.

Our automobile industry's alliance with the oil industry has to be broken, for one!

There is no reason that insurance companies nor Big Pharma have to be included

in a national health care program --

In fact, any "for profit" situation harms health care --

When you have a non-profit system of health care, you are not shutting down

"for profit" insurance companies.

It's about competitition . . .

whereas capitalism is a ridiculous "king-of-the-hill-" system intended to move the

wealth and natural resources of a nation from the many to the few --

Capitalism isn't about competitition . . . it's about killing the competitition --

I think you should take a look.

system has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with "shutting down legal, established industries!!

Notice that until now we didn't have a privatized military -- which, of course, was the

right thing to do. Blackwater exists as a bloodsucker on the govenrment dole.

We do not owe any corporation a living -- corporations are there to SERVE the public or

to fold.

Again -- the fact that any government engages in providing health care for its citizens --

and this bill is NOT government run health care, btw -- indicates nothing about "shutting

down any industry."

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we all care that you are sick and tired...?

:shrug:


(unrec)

We all work, wee one. Answer the question you were asked, why not?

and pay around $200 per month. And it's part of benefits that are union negotiated.

Wee one! LOL!

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I know exactly where I'd be without benefits. That's why I remain a union member. Lucky? LOL! Have you ever been on strike for 6 weeks? Ever? YOu're the type of person that would go back to work during a strike if you even went out in the first place.

My friend, you're the one that's going to need some luck if Moore and Kucinich and the rest of the GOP are successful at stopping this HCR.

I have never/would never cross a picket line.

The rest of you, "I've got mine so screw you" crowd are a bunch of sociopaths.

luck has nothing to do with it.

Disgusting.

This has been covered a lot here, so it shouldn't be 'news'. Union members, especially blue collar labor unions, like the one in my industry - IBEW - negotiates the best benefit packages possible. This often comes with a sacrifice of wages. The 'Cadillac tax' ends up reducing benefits while reducing the value of the benefits. The IBEW does NOT support this. This talk of 'unions support this bill' is not accurate. The Dems are in deep shit if this goes through as-is.

Remember: Union support was a big factor in the last election. The Senate bill as about as close to being exactly the opposite of what was promised on the campaign trail - what got him union support.

Sorry for being poor. Enjoy your riches.

:evilgrin:


The thing that bothers me most about this is taxpayers footing the bill for

insurance companies' 30% profits -- bonuses . . .

while we treat some of our citizens unequally -- with INCOME TESTING ...

an ole GOP gimmick --

It will be a tier-system -- a class based system --

rather than treating every American citizen equally -- equal care for all not based

on income but based on human rights!!!

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at least that is the way it should be.

That's part of the fix that needs to come later.

Car insurance right now is mandated. Overall it's still a damn good way to do things. Mandatory car insurance keeps rates down. Mandatory health insurance will do the same thing.

This bill mandates buying private insurance that may or may not protect you when you need it and you may or may not be able to afford.

It is the profit protection act of 2010.

Here in MA, we have this suck ass system, and the price for a comprehensive family plan if you don't qualify for subsidies for a family of three...

1,200 dollars a month - Go to the Massachusetts government health care site and spend some time on there -

Or, you can buy the crapalicious crisis insurance that wouldn't cover a tenth of the bill in a emergency.

Or, you can be fined.

Huge co-pays. Huge deductibles.

Insurnace can still deny payments.

You are cheering a bill that will mandate the private health care system that created the crisis.

Sick and tired, yes. Of people who refuse to listen to any of the facts and reality behind the bill.

Noted.

(Where the hell is the middle finger smiley when you need one?)

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I've been on my own since I was nineteen year old, am I a "spoiled brat child"?

not signling out people based on INCOME for testing --

Let's treat every American equally --

Further, there is no reason for insurance companies to be involved . . .

except for the BRIBERY of elected officials they've supplied over decades!!

Why hasn't Dennis Kucinich gotten it passed during the time he's been in Congress?

attention of congress were arrested. So don't act like they tried to put it out and it failed because that's a goddamn lie.

AND, that includes Catholics who also want any government run health plan

to also include reproductive care -- pre-natal/post-natal -- and CONTRACEPTION

and ABORTION.

When Latino and Latina Catholics are included, the majorities are even higher!!

"Kucinichi" ? :eyes:

This bill is the health industry version of the Wall St bank bailouts.

This will NOT fix the health care system. It is MANDATING the system that created this health care crisis.

That is not an argument to Moore and Dennis -

It is a quip.

for the first time in American history?

If so, why are they spending millions to stop it?

California has such a small and weak government that they cannot hold Anthem Blue Cross to the regulations that already exist..

I'm sure that the strong and large governments of places like Alabama and Kansas will do much better. :eyes:

States that are broke can't afford to do lots of things that protect their people from being raped by corporations. That will change starting next week.

This is going to put huge money in the coffers of the states so they can properly regulate the insurance companies..

There's an app for that.. :rofl:

Maybe you should read it?

At the very least read a summary.

Apparently you think I'm wrong..

And you're saying the remedy is more corporate power???

This is a class based system -- based on INCOME TESTING -- an old GOP gimmick

to turn clients into "welfare recipients" -- !!!

Let's treat every citizen equally -- UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE FOR ALL, EVERYONE IN, NO ONE OUT!!

Where did you even come up with that?

Corporatism . . . well loved by this administration!!

Harmful to humans!!

Please read the bill or a summary.

Show me where you see anything different?

If they are IN, they are in control --

Especially without competitition from government --

No one here has amnesia -- we well know the behavior of the insurance industry --

Recall that Obama calls them "evil."

Then why is he forcing Americans to sign up with them?

Why is he forcing them into our health care?

Let's see how the DLC might spin that -- "EVIL" shouldn't be the enemy of the more evil?

This will not be government run health care --

Show me where you see anything different?

If they are IN, they are in control --

Especially without competition from government --

No one here has amnesia -- we well know the behavior of the insurance industry --

Recall that Obama calls them "evil."

Then why is he forcing Americans to sign up with them?

Why is he forcing them into our health care?

Let's see how the DLC might spin that -- "EVIL" shouldn't be the enemy of the more evil?

Corporations have no business in health care --

Health care is a human right -- not an opportunity for profit --

Plus we need a system that treats everyone equally -- not based on INCOME TESTING

an old GOP gimmick to turn some recipients into "welfare" clients --

Not only would we be susidizing the clinent to pay the insurance company bill, it

is subsidy to the insurance company!! Clients they never would have had!!


This is NOT universal health care -- it's another form of privatization of government

compliments of Obama/Rahma ...

That is, every American treated equally?

No income testing --

No high risk pool --

No insurance companies --

No protections for Big Pharma --

Simply health care for every American?

Cementing corporations into health care is a bad idea NOW --

and will an even worse idea if GOP should ever retake power!!

This bill is a distortion of Health Care Reform -- based on needs of corporations --

not the needs of the public.

As long as we have a "for profit" health care system, we will be treating Americans

unequally.

Bad ideas don't improve with age --

But we still have insurance companies.

They insure some 'extra' stuff (like private bedroom at Hospitals, and other stuff not covered by the 'basic' universal plan).

And they also insure employees dental plans or out-of-job recovery periods, depending on their employer's benefit plans.

But they're not allowed to 'touch' the 'basic' universal pool.

Medicare for all, and IF people want 'extra' comfort (and can afford the premiums), good for them.

I'm sure that you can see that our President/Congress have been very busy

here reinventing the wheel!!!

:rofl:

Pres. Obama started it all by saying at his first WH summit that he wanted to base his "reform" on an uniquely American idea.

commiting its crimes and spreading its corruptions all over the world for a few

hundred years!! Time to MoveOn!

Capitalism is a ridiculous "King-of-the-Hill" system intended to move the wealth and

natural resources of nations from the many to the few --

succeeds at that quite well!!

I think I'll burn my house down.

By the president that I voted for.

So far as I can tell, under the new system, she would still have to throw herself into poverty to get affordable "coverage" (in the form of Medicaid).

In other words, nothing really changes for people like this.

Which is a pity, and a crime.

As for the president's cynical manipulation of her case yesterday in Ohio... that frankly made me sick.

I cannot even watch him anymore.

at coverage for 4 years. As Michael Moore noted, thousands upon thousands are going to die in the interim and their only crime is living in the United States of America. "Debt reduction" has become the focus of the entire bill, not death reduction.

We have met the "Death Panel," and it is the mandated insurance legislation now before congress.

will be helped by the new legislation.

I hope she gets some help, thanks to the publicity.

Because it seems that the new bill will do little or nothing to help her, at least as I understand it.

She asked to have her story considered and agreed to have it told. If it struck a nerve with the "no" voters, good.

But it is no surprise that the Puke Squad would pick up on it.

Doesn't mean it wasn't exploitative... just that Faux is now exploiting the event for their own purposes.

this bill won't help us?

When they're not telling us that we hate sick people?

"An individual shall be deemed to be an eligible... if such individual—

has not been covered under creditable coverage ... during the 6-month period prior to the date on which such individual is applying for coverage..."

She WAS covered just a month ago, so she is NOT eligible - which is the whole problem with this monstrosity - there is so much verbiage that it will be construed to mean whatever the team of lawyers hired by big insurance wants it to mean.

WE MUST HAVE AN ALTERNATIVE TO BIG INSURANCE!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7928444&mesg_id=7928599

to distract from this basic reality.

The insurance industry has more money and more power than the government and they will fight every one of the provisions of this monstrosity for as long as it takes. She and all of us in similar situations will be cast aside to die in the "poor people's hospital", while the corporations continue to drive inflation in the system, hike premiums and cut service.

Just goes to show what the immature and childish here at DU will do to something they don't want to hear.

Calling people spoiled brats and bragging about how you got yours (and don't give a shit about those who don't) is a good way to get unrec'd.

Oh and K&U

I don't like shills.