While everyone is cheering and high fiving, stop a second and think about women .......

..... they had some of their rights eroded tonight. For the sake of a win?

Yes, the win is a good thing.

But the price was dear.

It did not have to be this way.

eom.

:eyes:

Just in case:

:sarcasm:

Nothing has changed on the ability to get an abortion.

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Obama threw Stupak a bone. Big fucking deal.

can barely remember, I found out I was pregnant. One thirty in the afternoon.

I was twenty. As I walked home from work, I was somewhat excited, and somewhat scared. The pregnancy was not planned, but I knew my husband would be happy and somehow we would muddle our way through.

By the time I reached the house, I was spotting. By the time J. arrived home, I was bleeding very
heavily.

At 2 Am, I went into convulsions. What to do? I didn't think my parent's insurance covered me, and we didn't have insurance of our own.

We called the Chicago police, who hoisted me on a gurney and took both of us to the local hospital.

The doctor at the ER, probably a mere resident, was terrified of my situation. I was out of it by this time. I remember joking that he looked so very young, and as I was fading out, I heard him telling a nurse, "We cannot admit her. if this was an abortion she performed on herself, I could lose my license and so could the whole hospital."

Long story short - he sent us back home - while I hemorrhaged!

And all we had for that trip was a prescription we couldn't even fill until the time when the drug store opened. Supposedly the medication would stop the bleeding.

Luckily my mom stopped over at the house, something she never did mid-week. She put me in her car and took me to my childhood pediatrician. they worked things out so I was still on the folk's insurance. i was given a D & C as emergency surgery.

My body was so overwhelmed by everything that had happened, it failed to make red blood cells. I was in the hospital for a while, and when I got out I weighed 87 pounds (I am five feet eleven.)

When abortion rights are not a fundamental right, this is what happens. The only difference between what happened to me and what will happen to other twenty somethings is that they may be asked by the hospital to pay for the D & C upfront. If they cannot, too bad.

Nothing added or removed, just the status quo. Although I want to see that changed very soon.

I have tried to find more info on this. I read most private insurance policies (85%)cover the procedure. If the company wants to be in the pools will they have to drop the coverage? That is what I can't find. I did get an email from naral voicing their rationale for supporting the bill but stating their reservations.

You will now pay two premiums instead of one. The abortion part of your private health insurance will have to be billed separate. It's an odd change. I guess the thought is many people didn't know they had that coverage and might drop it or something now that they do. Although for those that get it through their company, it's not like they'll see a change. And of course if you can now get insurance and couldn't before then you are way better off.

Still there is some feeling this wasn't a win for women's rights. I see that. Once again male legislators fought hard for provisions that single out women.

is emphasize the already existing laws - which need to fucking go, btw. Stupak is a fucking idiot and I'm going to donate as much $ as I can to his primary opponent. What a piece of shit.

Thanks for getting it. Too many DUers are okay with women's rights getting thrown out just for the "win".

The language of his Executive Order codifies "segregationist" and "inequal" treatment of women. Not only did he go a lot farther to prop up the Hyde Amendment, his language in the EO went even further.

cause he did the right thing and needed to be protected in his district? Nuts! He has a primary challenger. Support that!

:shrug:

RL

It is still just like the Hyde Amendment.

because being mad at something counts for so much more.

insurance that covered abortion.

Do I need the sarcasm thingy on that last part?

That's the difference.

to be this way. :cry:

not understanding. Thx.

Obama's signing statement basically says, "Yeah, the Hyde Amendment is still in force". The Hyde Amendment forbade all public funding of abortion.

The signing statement allows Stupak & Co. to save face.

Of course, one of the next tasks for us is to repeal the damned Hyde Amendment.

--d!

priority. My wife and two daughters are happy tonight not because of what didn't get accomplished, but because of what did.

We are preparing to celebrate in our house.

what rights were eroded, and how they were eroded.

There is a difference between an assertion and a fact - just saying something does not make it so.

My insurance coverage may no longer cover abortion except in cases of incest, rape, or if my life is at risk. Hope I don't develop any kind of health problems during a pregnancy that could be detrimental to my health, because my insurance wouldn't necessarily be able to provide therapeutic services beyond lifesaving measures.

I now need to buy additional coverage, coverage that doesn't actually exist. Do you know where to buy a rider for a single procedure right now? I sure don't, and I've been paying attention.

The majority of pregnancies are unplanned (and especially complicated pregnancies), so I and every other woman of childbearing age must now buy extra coverage...somewhere...we hope.

Suppose I'm pregnant now. I'm insured but I haven't purchased a rider for abortion coverage. What do I do if I get a cancer diagnosis? A fetus with anencephaly?

Yeah, I don't know either. Cross your fingers for pregnant women everywhere.

:)

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:rofl:

:yourock:

:bounce:

:hi:

It's nothing but a way to wield power over women.
And I'm fuckin' tired of it.

and politicians would make money off it. Agree totally.

Yeah, I'm a guy.

no they didn't. It's just a restatement of the Hyde Amendment. And Bart Stupak gets to make a speech.

Is there a software program set up for this?

Maybe women should pool our money and buy ourselves a congresscritter or two.

x(

I saw what you wrote about that earlier (or yesterday) It made NO SENSE for someone to be set back like that for medical care x( NO effin sense at all.

EVERYONE needs doctors.
Also it's frickin 2010.. in proud America.

Stupak forced his warped views down the country's throats. As relieved as I am that HCR has at least begun with this bill, I am a little shocked at how easy it was to throw a women's right to her own body under the bus.

We've had a piece of shit called the Hyde Amendment that does the same thing for years.

Exactly who is going to be stopped from getting an abortion once this passes that would have got one government paid for before?

through the "Exchange" you will not be able to get insurance that covers abortion. That's what is different.

My existing coverage would no longer cover abortion or potentially abortion-associated procedures outside of rape, incest, or life-threatening complications.

I now need to buy a rider, extra insurance for a single procedure. This extra coverage doesn't actually exist where I live. Does it exist where you live?

Also, 50% of pregnancies are unplanned, and no one actually plans for a complicated pregnancy. So now every heterosexual woman of childbearing age is now expected to shell out for extra coverage, if they can even get it, on the chance they might get pregnant.

Oh, yes, that's just terrific and not a problem at all.

So, there's that.

No federal funding for abortion was already the law. Do I agree with that, no, but I don't believe my rights were eroded one bit.

Harris v. McRae 1980.

Granted, this bill does not advance the rights of women to have full control of their bodies.

But is also does not undermine them.

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and your journal also suggests that a woman can just walk into a pharmacy and get RU-486.

She can't, and has never been able to.

:sarcasm:

you, but do most insurance policies cover elective abortions now?

it's far cheaper than covering a birth and new baby.

cheaper than 18 years of child support.

it's so much cheaper to cover that procedure than pre natal care, birth and post natal care.

Under this bill, women aren't allowed to get that same opportunity from the exchanges.

the risk of prison time was the main concern.

Getting insurance now will give them access to care they didn't have access too before, but abortion costs will remain the same if using government exchanges.

Not all abortions are because a woman finds herself pregnant and doesn't want to be. Fetus dies in the womb and doesn't come out? Abortion procedure is necessary. Ectopic pregnancy? Abortion procedure is necessary. A miscarriage is nothing more than a natural abortion process, and unfortunately the fetus doesn't always come out before it is necessary to medically intervene with a medical abortion procedure. There are all manner of unforseen circumstances in a WANTED pregnancy that may end up requiring a medical abortion.

about this:

I believe you heard Nancy Pelosi speak about that the other day.

Insurance companies are currently allowed to gender-rate--charge more for women than for men. Insurance companies can reject a woman because she had a previous C-section, or refuse to pay for a future C-section. Since women are poorer than men on the whole (remember, they earn 78 cents on the dollar), and because they have reproductive health needs, and because more of them are uninsured or underinsured compared to men (45% vs. 39%), this bill will help more women to obtain and afford insurance.

There are many more ways in which this will help women. Some facts are here:

http://nwlc.org/reformmatters/pdf/statewhywomenneedhcr/NATIONALHCRFactSheet_FinalPush.pdf

I am a strong supporter of abortion rights. I have been distressed at using this issue as a bludgeon in negotiations. But the fact remains: the Hyde amendment was in place before this bill, and it will be in place after this bill. Nothing has changed. If I have to weigh the pros versus the cons for women, I say this bill helps far more than hurts. (Even economically: an abortion costs between $350-$700, depending on the date of termination; a C-section can cost a woman $25,000.) Roe v. Wade is still the law of the land, and we will work hard to keep it that way. We have and can find ways to pay for abortions for women who can't afford them.

So, perhaps the truth might be helpful?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2010/03/21/one-more-step-towards-health-insurance-reform

It's very anti-women and certainly contains some language in there that's troubling. I don't want to replicate Cerridwen's fine OP about the text and it's "segregationist" and "inequal" language but Obama didn't have to go this route.

If DUers can't see the problem with this EO, then they are hopeless about women's rights and this Admin.

ETA link to Cerridwen's OP.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7974726

It is at epidemic proportions.

It isn't covered by the health care thingie they passed today.

Abortion is no less legal than it was. As to federal funding, it is not legal today and it won't be under the bill. No change. There is no reasonable likelihood of Hyde being repealed.

The gain - all the other improvements on other healthcare issues.

Did it have to be this way? It looks like there were not enough votes without it - and it looks like NOTHING was given away.

to purchase a crap product which may or may not pay a claim is an "improvement".

kids can be on their parents' plan until age 26 - that includes many young women is one easy to prove benefit.

(I have no intention to repeat the list given often.)

I'm hoping that, if we can primary a-holes like Stupak out of office, that the next Congress can do something to either tweak the bill, or bolster reproductive choice rights another way.

I.E. the "exchange" will not provide coverage for women to obtain a legal medical procedure. Your health care was just one of those poker chips they threw into the mix to make sure everyone has to buy a crummy product.

Enjoy. :puke:

People can purchase their own abortion rider. Federal funds will continue to provide abortion in cases of rape, incest and the life of the mother.

It is really not that difficult to write an extra check, probably once a year actually.

then get an abortion, they can just write one extra check. Or use the convenient pay on-line option.

The ease of which one can do this is not really the point.

No?

I feel at this point I can no longer support ANYONE who voted for this POS.

and for those who keep saying "nothing has changed!" - yes it has. Some insurance companies would help pay for abortions. Now, that isn't so.

From Guttmacher:



Unfortunately, as I've been assured by talking heads, pop culture, former friends, and a few DUers, all "those" women who get pregnant are just stupid and/or sluts. Kinda funny those talking heads, et.al. deem them "worthy" of reproducing or more accurately, "worthy of the 'punishment' of pregnancy and poverty," but don't deem them "worthy" of controlling their own bodies. If it leads them further into poverty, well, that's just because they're "unworthy."

By stopping federal funding for women in poverty, the "pro-life" groups will cause more abortions. I'm sure there's no gender, class or race issue going on there, right?

The "status quo" is perfectly acceptable for those we deem "unworthy." As long as the "status quo" keeps them in their place.

:thumbsup:

They will be allowed to die, I guess. Because the law is clear. The fetus is more a person than a woman.

who won't have to stay in a bad marriage for the health insurance. That's what I'll think about.

Womens' rights are of vital interest, but this topic is also very emotional and people will rec it regardless of it's validity.

The Wall Street Banksters got their Trillion Dollars.
Its only fair that the Health Insurance Industry gets their Trillion Dollars too!
.
.
.
.
.
.

We did NOT have to eat the whole Shit Pie to get the few good crumbs.
The Corpocrats did an excellent marketing job framing it this way.

promoting lies

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FAIL

That's what ...... seventh grade?

Geezus ..... late to the party and lame to boot.

because neither Congress nor this administration can be trusted not to backstab them.

Better be ready to put the pressure on and keep it on.

Nothing has changed for women in this bill. Zero. Nada.

can't cover a legal medical procedure because someone bartered your right to your own body away doesn't seem like it advanced women's rights much to me either, but what do I know.

The lack of accurate information in GD lately is really pissing me off.

Some (not all) insurance paid for elective abortions. The reason was probably not a good one, but they did cover it. I'm guessing they decided what young men with pregnant girlfriends did back in the day: an abortion was cheaper than 18 years of paying for an inconvenient child.

No matter ...... abortion was covered by some policies.

Now, no policy that is sold to anyone under this new law can cover elective abortions. That is probably most policies. The abortions are no more or less illegal, only access to them.

I expect this will affect the poor more than those who get their policies otherwise.

If you are right, you won't need to post misinformation to get a point across.

"Post misinformation"?

Really?

:shrug:

better luck next time?

probably bought and paid for more than a few abortions in their congressional lifetimes. They're assholes.

Thanks Stinky, ignore the shitheads. They don't get it and never will.

:shrug:

personally need an abortion. I worked long and hard to see that we HAD that right throughout the 80's, and now nobody gives a damn. I'm no longer a fertile age, so I'm done worrying and done caring. My efforts were a waste.