Men leave their own mark on veganism

SOMERVILLE — For most of his life Joe McCain subsisted on pepperoni and sausage pizza, steak bomb subs, and anything “fried, fried, or fried.’’ In other words, says the Somerville police detective with a shaved head, snowy beard, and tattoos cascading up his arms, chest, and neck, “I ate like an American.’’


When McCain reached his mid-40s the party ended. Topping the scales at 257 pounds and bulging out of his clothes, the stout father of three was fat, unhappy, and “terribly uncomfortable.’’ On the advice of his childhood friend Brian Rothwell, a yoga instructor and lifelong vegan, McCain cut meat, dairy, eggs, chicken, and fish from his diet and added power vinyasa yoga, which helped him shed 60 pounds in eight months. “I feel like a million bucks. And if anything, I don’t look like a slob anymore,’’ says McCain.


















http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/food/articles/2010/03/24/men_leave_their_own_mark_on_veganism/

my republican 44 yr old brother just did this 2 months ago and lost 16 pounds in a month. had open heart surgery at 43, so he woke up to his dietary concerns.

everything in moderation is the key

Seriously-- What a bunch of tired old cliches. You mean Men are vegan? (Sorry, "hegan"? :eyes:)

I mean, real boston police-detective types, as opposed to, well, you know, swishy San Francisco hairdressers? And you can still be a MAN and do Yoga? Wow! Wow! Wow! Who fucking knew?




Seriously, this article is just fucking dumb. The first vegans I met were all men. And this was decades ago. :boring:

:hi:

:rofl:

The sad thing is, there are the folks who apparently do try to force their cats to eat so-called "vegan cat food". I think that qualifies as animal cruelty.

And since the environmental movement is often dominated by feminine themes and messages, this article is relevant. 90% of the conservative argument against environmentalism is based on cultural identity issues so it would be moronic not to respond.

Where'd you get that figure, precisely?

Anyway, I'm sure trying to convince people to call male vegans "hegans" is reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaallly gonna help with that. :rofl:

people who support the environment still don't call themselves environmentalists because they don't want to be seen as some kind of hippie who might start preaching at people and then move to California to live in a tree. That's America between the coasts. You can ignore that if you don't want the country to make progress.

Obviously, it's just that not eating meat is seen as frou-frou. That's why people still insist on eating meat. I get it.

Actually, I think there are several problems here, the most glaring one being that no matter how much PETA may wish it were so, not eating meat is not automatically synonymous with environmentalism. "Environmentalism" actually doesn't have branding problems, very much at all. And I'm not just talking about wacky hippie enclaves like Portland or Silicon Valley, where we build our yurts out of indica bud and old jamband tickets. I'm talking about the Midwest, which is another place I spent a good chunk of my life. (So maybe I know a little bit about whence I speak, your 20 second assesment of who I am based on my profile notwithstanding. Ahem.)

Maybe veganism has branding problems, which is why there is always this desperate push to link it with environmentalism, and in the process make not eating meat some kind of litmus test for giving a shit about the environment. Just a guess.

We obviously run in different circles. I was at a Sierra Club meeting a few weeks ago that attracted people from small towns sympathetic to the issue being discussed that night. Three people from the audience started their comment or question with "I'm not an environmentalist, but..." Then they espoused a strongly environmental viewpoint. This is a common occurrence, especially with hunters who should be conservationist allies. I don't know how long you've been out of the Midwest but you're out of touch with how Americans in small and mid-sized towns view environmentalists.

Haven't you ever heard how Rush, Beck and O'Reilly portray environmentalists? It's all about cultural identity and it's a VERY effective tactic. Maybe PETA wants to be associated with environmentalism, and judging by their shows, conservative talk radio hosts want that too.

to something like the term "hegan" instead of "vegan". (why not "pegan", for penis-- as opposed to the vaginal "v"? :shrug:)

I mean, come on. That's like "metrosexual". Did anyone actually use that term? Certainly not about themselves.

It just strikes me as a little silly. Best way to get people to improve their diets is to improve access to fresh, local produce, and get doctors on board with a little more proactive advice and information than just "your cholesterol is high, better lower it".

I think the problem your hunters may have with 'environmentalists' is that to them, that word = Al Gore & The Democratic Party, which = "coming to take my guns away". That is a branding problem for our party, but it doesn't have a lot to do with environmental concerns being far removed from where mainstream America is at. I don't care if people call themselves "environmentalists" or not; the fact is, it's pretty much a no-brainer to want to breathe clean air, drink clean water and pay a smaller electrical bill every month.

I'm not vegan, I'm not an anti-meat activist, I'm certainly not a member of PETA --- which has much bigger problems than being assosciated with the big, bad environmental movement by AM radio hosts. If they want to improve their pr, they can start by not doing stupid shit like comparing holocaust victims to Col. Sanders chickens, or protesting NYC for going after the rat problem.

That said, I stopped eating red meat over 10 years ago and made major dietary changes that drastically lowered my cholesterol & my weight, and improved my health & energy levels. I was fortunate in that I lived in a place with lots of local, good organic produce and lots of eating options beyond the sort of strip-mall-ified choices much of America has available. So, maybe you're right, it is about location somewhat.

I can't see it catching on. But the need for people to create a self identity not associated with their preconceptions about environmentalists or vegans is understandable.

And I don't think it's a Republican/Democrat problem. I know plenty of people who call themselves Democrats but would never call themselves environmentalists. It's absolutely a cultural identity issue. Just because someone votes Democratic doesn't mean they want their friends to think they're like those tree-hugging freaks in California. That's the attitude in middle America.

That's the genius of talk radio hosts portraying environmentalism as a cultural issue instead of talking about the real clean air and water issues that most people agree with. The image problem is driving away allies. This article is a clumsy attempt to deal with that problem, but I understand why they feel the need to try.

Conservationists generally respect nature only to the point where it creates an abundant habitat for animals to be hunted and fished. They are primarily concerned with the environment as a habitat for non-people.

In Southeast Louisiana, where there are tons of oil and chemical refineries which employ a large percentage of the population, an environmentalist is going to be met with the same resistance as a Klan march in Harlem. The people here are concerned about wetland erosion issues, both for the habitat and the encroaching Gulf of Mexico. But the work here is underfunded, regardless of who is in charge. The nation has benefited greatly from our offshore oil production, but when it comes time to fill in those canals which are eating away at our coasts, well, everyone has their own pork which takes priority, and Louisiana only has a small handful of representatives.

Just for this phrase: "where we build our yurts out of indica bud and old jamband tickets."

Veganism is just as harmful as carnivory, environmentally speaking. it's not a matter of what you eat, so much as how, where, and when that food is produced and transported. Eating a locally-raised steak is more environment-friendly than eating a tomato-and-caper salad made from ingredients flown in from Mexico, Italy, and Florida.

Sorry, but this just isn't true: The carbon footprint of commercially produced vegetables is far lower than that of meat.


-- http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010/03/energy-required-for-pound-of-food.php

I also stated that it depends more on where and when your food is coming from. Yes, your garden is going to give you a better food to waste ratio than a rack of ribs from the other side of the state. But that rack of ribs gives a better ratio than tomatoes flown in from Mexico.

However, I imagine the vegans who grow their own are rather in the minority compared to those who want their favorite veggies available on demand all year round no matter what the season may be.

"I don't care if it's December, I want an eggplant NOW!"

I am not one but thinking of turning because of the excellent example set by some friends and family members.

But wassup with the snark, seriously. Why the hell would I get mad and sarcastic at people for doing what works for them? I applaud anybody who seriously thinks about what they are eating rather than just mindlessly shovel whatever the commercials & corp food giants tell you to eat. We all know that there is a huge problem in America with people filling themselves with crap and the consquences of it.

they think it's not manly, but if you call it going "hegan", they will.

I mean, come on.

It's just Silly. I'm not mad. And I'm not hostile towards veganism. I'm hostile towards PETA, I'm hostile towards the folks who worry more about what is on other people's forks instead of their own, but personally I am all for improving one's diet-- I eat very little meat and no red meat, I stopped eating crap years ago and feel much better because of it.

EVERY TIME somebody has a positive word to say about veganism you get the 'I LIKE ANIMALS NEXT TO MY POTATOES SNORT SNORT' crowd berating them, I understand that people will always hunt and eat meat but we all need to understand that the factory farmed meat we get in the cellowrap at the market is full of so much crap (not to mention cruelty) and if somebody actually wants to give some thought to the backstory of their Big Mac or sausage McPuker THAT IS A GOOD THING.

As far as I'm concerned, I don't really have no desire to go shoot a deer and eat stinky minced gamey purple meat out of my freezer for 6 months but that's about a million times healthier and more ethical than the drive-in food.

Which isn't, you know, the "real world".

:shrug:

the unreality of it is news to me, but then again I live in "LaLa Land" which I am constantly reminded, has no "real people" in it at all!

the unreality of it is news to me, but then again I live in "LaLa Land" which I am constantly reminded, has no "real people" in it at all!

Let's say I'm at a public meeting in a mid-sized or small Midwestern town and I want to give an example of a city doing something innovative for the environment or some other issue. I'm going to do my best to avoid using any California city as an example as well as towns that are known as ultra-liberal hippie meccas like Portland. If I do use those examples I know that a sizable chunk of my audience will be dismissive because in their minds any example from those cities is probably some experimental, hair-brained, hippie commie bullshit that will never work anyway.

Personally, I love Portland, but that's how a lot of Americans outside the northeast and west coast think.

My brother is a republican in Ohio,.in Cleveland. he eats this way to save his life right now. that is all.
I am also a vegan, and I do it for my heart. and I am old. do not paint with so broad a brush.
peace.

How many fellow vegans show up to the vegetarian association meetings? Or are you in the minority?
There are people who buck the trend in every city but that doesn't mean the trend doesn't exist.

That's about as relevant as exclaiming that they're embracing the Democratic party.

The article is a fluff piece, with no effort to ascertain a)what percentage of vegans in the country are male or b)whether there is more than anecdotal evidence that the number of men becoming vegans has increased.

'Hegan' is also inherently sexist and it's funny as a pun but not as a serious term to differentiate male vegans from from female ones.

Hegan sounds very macho. Love it!

did to "leave their mark" other than adopting a normal vegan lifestyle.

Don't forget to marinade it in beer. Sprouts on the sammy? They sure taste better if you marinade them in beer!

I'm a man, and I've been a vegan my entire adult life, twenty years. Big deal.

..where their mouth is..:toast: boycott poor health and animal cruelty-go vegan!

In fact they scream when you're cutting them - releasing panic pheromones that alert their neighbors that they are begin attacked and mutilated. Some plants even have pheromones that attract insects and induce them to attack or harass whoever's harming the plant.

next time you're cutting the grass and a bee starts bouncing around your head, just remember, that's the sound of a dandelion screaming in mutilated agony.

..these are natural things. My problem is with the factory farming that relegates animals to short, brutish lives suffering needlessly as meat machines, subject to the denial of all natural instincts while raised in confinement. For example, pigs, like dogs, are capable of feeling fear, loneliness, pain, happiness and if given the opportunity will forage, mate, express playfulness, etc.

In our system, where profit is everything and man is god, there is simply no room for compassion because it doesn't help the bottom line. The way these animals are treated is wrong. Boycott cruelty.

Though in all honesty, factory-style plant agriculture isn't much better. For us, for the plants, for the environment. Do you know how much destruction you're participating in when you buy a loaf of bread? At least you can look for bacon produced by local "humane" farmers and butchers. All your bread though requires acre after acre of monoculture fields of genetically engineered, toxin-coated, chemically enhanced grass.

that would allow them to feel pain?

They do not have "nerve cells". What they have instead are vascular strands, which are channels that run throughout the plant, and connect to root apices, which are essentially the "brains" of the plant. These apices regulate the use of auxins (sort of a plant neurotransmitter that triggers hormone release). The transport system is that triggers plant movement such as growing towards light, or more radically the movements of predatory plants such as flytraps and sundews, snapdragons, and various orchids. These are also used when the plant is under attack, whether it's from disease, aphids, a cow, or a farmer. Distress hormones are released and received through the stoma of other plants, triggering their own hormonal reactions - essentially causing a panic, as all the plants nearby start revving up their defensive hormones and beginning production of alkaloids, thorns, and other assorted defenses.

You don't really think that the dominant life forms on this planet existed for two billion years without some method of perceiving and reacting to danger, do you?

and completely understand the evolutionary process that would make that a trait to be passed on, it just seems kind of silly to call it "pain" in order to elicit some response in an argument against vegetarianism. There is just so logically coherent argument that can show that plants experience pain on the level of sentient life. I know it makes a lot of meat eaters happy to tell me that my carrots feel pain, but it doesn't make it so.

See, I used to think that people on the left generally accepted science, even if it was uncomfortable to their desires and preconceptions. You're teaching me that folks in my political circle can cover their eyes and go "LALALALALALA!" just as well as any climate change denier or creationist.

I'm not arguing against vegetarianism. I'm simply letting you now that proclaiming yourself morally superior because you kill, torture, mangle, masticate, and defecate a different variety of pain-feeling organism than other people is just a bit fucking silly.

So I'm just like the creationists? Nice. You're teaching me that folks in my political circle like to cast someone they disagree with as the other to make it more convenient.

1. When did I proclaim myself morally superior? Your strawman building classes aren't serving you well and, um, some of your feelings about vegetarianism might be showing a little.
2. I do not indicate that I disbelieve that plants react to stimuli. Just that I doubt your claim that that equals a perception of pain as we normally speak of it. Pardon me for not just rolling over and accepting your proclamation since clearly you have a complete understanding of all that is science and it is completely rude of me to not notice that immediately. There have been some studies I have glanced through on the subject but from all I can tell those are very fringe studies. I am not a biologist, but I am going to guess that if I went and googled "do plants feel pain" I might find out that the scientific community as a whole does not subscribe to that notion. Think I'm right? I do.

Your argument is, in all honestly, absolutely no different from people who state that fish (or any other animal they enjoy eating) don't experience pain. You - and they - cover your eyes and pretend to not see when you're countered in these sort of claims. Why? Because it's personally convenient for you to maintain your claims even in the face of being informed you're wrong.

You didn't proclaim yourself morally superior - that was Veganlush. However you sure seem to be supporting such a statement. My feelings on vegetarianism are simple; if that's what you want to eat, go right ahead. But don't proclaim yourself to be moral supermen while you're chowing down on that mass-produced, nitrogen-polluting, genetically-engineered monocrop salad you've got going :) Give my regards to the Gulf of Mexico dead zone, and all the tons and tons and tons of marine life you kill with your loaf of bread every year...

Your argument, as I stated, hinges on redefining "pain" so that it falls outside whatever standards are most convenient to you. You might as well argue that since cows lack the same cognitive ability as humans, bludgeoning them with a sledgehammer and gutting them while they're still alive is just dandy - after all, they don't feel pain the same way we do, right? Any rational person could concede that cows, or fish, or what have you, do have a "different perception" of pain from how humans identify it. Most people would then note that a different perception doesn't mean the creature is any less distress. The same logic applies to plants.

if you googled anything on "pain," you'll find little supporting it in science - animal, plant, fungi, what have you. This is because pain can't actually be measured. What's painful for you may be mildly irritating for me (I say this as someone who kept working with a broken arm for three days before realizing it was broken. I felt kinda dumb after the X-ray). However, do a search on plant neurobiology.

Unlike Ignis' claims below, I'm not basing this off "woo-woo" but simple rational science. Plants react to stress. Plants react to physical harm. One has to assume that they don't react with what we would call orgasmic pleasure, even if we can't call it "pain" either. Most organisms don't like being injured and go as far as they can to avoid it.

Fish has a CNS. So do we. They are sentient. Tada.
Plants do not have a CNS. They are not sentient. Tada.

Pain either means something or it doesn't. If you mean that pain is a response to a stimulus, then the word is meaningless. And response to stimulus is all you are talking about. What you are describing above is more like our endocrine than our central nervous system. And you may say pain is not measured (which I think a lot of people in the pain management field of medicine may disagree with), but it certainly is something that comes through our CNS.

I fully understand that I am killing animal life almost constantly. I am taking drugs right now to kill cellulitis in my leg. But I do everything I can to minimize that. I find it odd on DU where so many people hop all over me as an atheist claiming I don't respect people's religion, but somehow a vegetarian thread is always going to turn into a "don't think you're so morally superior" just because someone might imply that they are a vegetarian for moral reasons.

That irony aside, what studies do you have other than the woo. I have not been able to find them. That was my initial thought but don't know enough about it to have made that claim. Someone else thought the same thing. Give me a real study to read.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_perception_%28paranormal%29

http://www.skepdic.com/plants.html

A clue: Backster published the findings from his "research" in International Journal of Parapsychology.

first.

100 years ago blew over in a Nor'Easter.

Felt like a lost part of the family.

pigs make bacon + gravy!

..by mistreating a dog to death, would you do it or just find self control?

I am continually amazed by the chef at Native Foods here in SoCA, my vegan friend introduced me to that restaurant and THE FOOD IS AMAZING!!

http://www.amazon.com/Diet-Small-Planet-20th-Anniversary/dp/0345321200
Just tossed my copy the other week. It was melancholy actually. The hippies were right, but the media was bought. Here we are.

That is not a description of typical American diet.

In most towns, in most of the country, it absolutely is. The obesity rates prove it.

I see it all of the time. And the obesity rates, as you stated, prove it.

:9

More meat for the rest of the meat eaters.

but good for him.

How can you pick up a gun and fight in a civil war if you are all fat and sloppy???

}(

I found gluten free very very difficult to follow but it kept me away from a lot of crap!

vegetarian just this past monday. (She doesn't want to go Vegan because she loves cheese and milk, and doesn't want to cut them out of her diet, despite considering it for a couple of weeks.) She ate primarily fish as protein for along time (no red meat), and doesn't think the change will be that difficult.

I'm interested to see how it goes.

I don't eat a lot of red meat myself (once a month and always local/grass-fed/organic beef), but I do love seafood. I could easily go pescaterian, though.

It's great that he lost 60 lbs as a result of his new lifestyle!

;)

He got healthy because he stopped eating crap.

You never hear of veganism for diabetes but he's connected with a lot of internet people who have had a similar experience.

Tried it for a week on a dare, ended up feeling lethargic and started producing farts that could give people cancer. After three days, my roomate and his girlfriend dragged me to the hole-in-the-wall pizza place on Main Street and bought me the all-meat pizza. Best pizza I've ever had in my life.

I guess veganism isn't for everyone. Each of us has different body chemistry.

but has been ovo-lacto vegetarian for 20 years:

1. You were lethargic because you weren't eating enough variety to get enough protein. I know that I feel that way once in a while when I haven't been eating beans enough.
2. Yep there is a gas issue, but had you waited about a week longer (tough week for your roomie I'm sure!), your body would have adjusted to the new diet.

But, hey, live your life. I have no problems with that.

:eyes:

Three days. That's truly a herculean effort on your part. :eyes:

That's pretty funny. I eat meat, but I don't think three days without animal products would be all that tough ...

:D

I really wish more people did care about what they ate. I say that as a meat eater. Although, I have a feeling I won't be a meat eater forever. Baby steps for me.

Top that.

:sarcasm:

Though I do think the "hegan" label is pretty silly. :P

... wait for it! ...

"shenanigans" :D

Good eats. Seriously.

http://gardenfresh.us/

:eyes:

BTW: That soup looks like boiled foreskins.

Or maybe it would. Ick.

I have been vegetarian for years and the ONLY animal product that I have been consuming for the past two years is cheese. And very rarely at that.

I'm going to need to find some damn good vegan cheese around here STAT!

Many scientific advancements have been made in the past few years in the area of vegan cheese.

In all seriousness, the big ones I know off the top of my head are Daiya and Cheezley. I'm not a huge fan of cheese to begin with, so I could take it or leave it, but I know many vegans who swear by those two (and even argue amongst each other as to which one is better).

http://www.daiyafoods.com/ (I think it's sold at Whole Foods, and you can order it from various places online)
http://store.veganessentials.com/cheezly-vegan-cheese-alternative-by-redwood-foods-p2092.aspx

Congrats on going vegan. There's a group here on DU that has tons of info as well.